Older Acura TLs

liferules · May 2005

I find the 05 TL to be uncomfortable for long trips (300 miles or more)...

The problem I have is that the seats are short. Specifically, the bottom portion doesn't rest the thighs enough IMO. Definitely different from the other cars I drive or have driven.

Works great for my wife, who is short, but problematic for me...

rsquare · May 2005

Care to share how you get the low price on Non-M cars? I'm thinking of picking up a new 3 seriws in Germany. Assume the cars you are talking about are all "US standards"...not grey market. Thx in advance

ed31cincy · May 2005

I have an '04 and do lots of highway travel, usually one to three hours in length. I am in my late forties. The seats and suspension are definitely sporty, not cushy. However I have never complained about them. I think the leather is very supportive. There are enough adjustments including an adjustable lumbar support that you should be able to find a comfortable position. The seat memory feature is great too. You can have one set for city driving and one for highway. Or, if you have a significant other that helps with the payments, they can have one of the memory settings!

wannabgood1 · May 2005

Thanks everybody for the rapid and excellent posts in reply to my question. FYI, I am seriously looking at the M and the GS430, but am an Acura fan. The RL just doesnt do it for me based on performance and exterior. Like the way the TL looks inside and out, the value, features, practicality and performance. Still leaning M or GS as I am not buying on price. Sounds like most TL drivers here are pretty satisfied with the ride and comfort so I might give it a closer look. Do you think a dealer would give me a car for a day to spend some time in it?

ljwalters1 · May 2005

I'm not answering your question (sorry), but have some insight re the TL, M & GS that I picked up on these sights:

The M is the most sports-oriented of the 3 (even though it has (IMO) the most vanilla styling of the 3). It's ride is the harshest, has more road & engine noise, but has the best handling and acceleration of the 3. The M also has the best navigation system of the 3. When test-driving, don't even bother with the sport edition, and if the ride is WAAAY too harsh, check the tire pressure - I've heard a lot of dealers leave the tires over-inflated and it makes the ride a lot harsher. I don't know about the GS, but the M has more interesting technology available than the TL (or RL, I think), including back-up monitor, lane-change sensors, auto rear sunshade, etc, but it'll cost you.

The GS is the smoothest, quietest, most comfortable of the 3, with the least sporty handling and acceleration. I don't know any particulars about its nav system, but prior year's cars (mainly I know about the SC) wasn't very convenient. Had to be in park to enter info & wasn't touch-screen. I understand Toyota nav.s still require you to be in park.

The TL is middle-of-the-road re sportiness and comfort. The nav system is intuitive and convenient, and is only 2nd to the M b/c the M's voice recognition recognizes spoken street names while the TL allows voice entry of #s and its preset word-commands, but street names require manual entry. The TL is quiet with good pickup, and while I've seen people complain about the length of the seat-bottom, it's comfortable to my 6'0" frame.

When I select a car, after luxury features, acceleration, safety and comfort (not in that order), the last things I'm concerned about is styling and colors (although I won't buy a black interior). If interior color is important to you, keep in mind that whatever color you choose on the M will only appear on the seats and door inserts. The dash, center console/armreasts and floor will be black (unless you get the light tan interior) and the headliner will be light gray. If you get a light tan interior, the dash is black, floor and center console/armrest is tan, and the headliner light gray. Probagbly not an issue unless you get the bourbon (darker or more orange than the TLs darker tan), in which case the dash, floor and center console are black, seats are bourbon and headliner is gray. Quite a lot of color, even before you add the silver/wood trim!

All-in-all, if money was no object, and the M came with 6MT, that's the way I'd go.

wculbert1 · May 2005

Have 22 K on my '05, with several >500 mile trips. Not sure what people are talking about with the firm ride comments. These must be people coming from Caddies or Lex. Compared to my wife's A4 ( with Sports package) the TL is soft.

Bottom line is that the TL is very comfortable for me, but what is comfortable to one person may not be for another. The new model is definitrely more European than American in ride feel.

sb65 · May 2005

The time has come to replace my 1994 Accord EX. It has almost 178K miles on it, and I cannot complain one bit about how well it has held up. I've had to replace things that wear out, but that's about it (and expected). It sill drives/runs pretty much as it did 10 years ago. Gotta love the quality. I wouldn't mind getting another Accord, especially given the updates to the 2005 model, but the car is just plain ugly. The front end looks fine, but Honda really screwed up with the back end. Terrible.

So now I'm thinking I'll step up to an Acura TL. I've always liked the look of them, and would definitely like the luxury and a switch to auto, due to dealing with D.C. traffic. I have test driven both the base TL and the TL-S. Both are vast improvements over my current car. The base TL seems to be plenty powerful and I like it, but I really like the interior of the TL-S better, with the perforated seats/doors and the white/silver guages. I also LOVE the power of the TL-S, but the ride is much more firm than the TL-S and the seats are not as comfortable.

For those of you that have the TL-S, is the ride comfortable for long trips? It is OK for a 30 minute test drive, but I'm wondering about after a 5 hr drive? I'm only in my mid-30's, but I'm actually leaning towards the base TL, even though I'd love the power/handling/interior of the TL-S. Can't have everything I guess, and the trade off is luxury ride or better handling. I really think the base TL would have enough power for me, especially going from a 145 HP 4 cylinder.

Also, is the black interior unbearably hot in the summer? I'd prefer the lighter color interior, but the only exterior color I really like is silver.

Thanks!

habitat1 · May 2005

The "European Delivery" prices for most non-M BMW's is about 7% less than the U.S. MSRP. You should be able to access this pricing on BMW's web site. The M3 is available to be picked up in Europe, but, last time I checked, there were no discounts. All European Delivery vehciles are built exactly to US specifications - this is a legitimate program, not a grey market.

However, what most people don't know is that U.S. dealers can and will further discount these prices. Their profit on a European Delivery car is the same percentage as a US delivery car. Therefore, by getting them to further discount the car to $1,200 to $1,500 over the ED invoice price, the savings really add up. Passport BMW in the DC area offered to discount the ED prices.

What is also not commonly known is that the ED sales do not come out of the dealerships allocation of cars. Therefore, on some harded to get vehicles, such as the 330ci convertible, the ED price (discounted) is a screamer of a deal compared to paying at or near MSRP in the US.

I am a big fan of the Acura TL; but if you have your heart set on a BMW 3-series and are willing to go to Europe, you can get a great deal. Good luck.

jkgreer2 · May 2005

Habitat1: Do I need to visit a "big-city" and/or "high-volume" BMW dealership to seek out European Delivery and further discounts over the ED invoice price? The World Cup is in Germany in 2006. Thank you in advance for information on ED, and best regards. My 2004 6sp manual TL remains a great car, without problems.

habitat1 · May 2005

Perhaps we should take this discussion over to the BMW 3 series forum. However, a quaick answer is that I have found a few dealerships - including the only one in my small hometown - that have agreed to discount ED prices. The key is asking for it, equiped with the knowledge that ED prices are negotiable.

igiban · May 2005

If you think ride on 01 TL is rough (and uncomfy) already new TL's rides may not be that suited for you. I actually find it quite decent on paved roads but just a bit harsh on rocky surface. New TL's seats are firmer as well, but more supportive at the same time. You got to listen more to your body more than to us tho.

Out of most luxo brands, in this price range, I think Lexus and Volvo have the most comfy seats, and maybe smooth rides too, and are best tuned for touring long rides. They may not be as much fun to drive but you have to decide which one is more important to your driving/riding now.

ronaries10 · May 2005

The 02-03 TL has more comfortable seats IMHO than does the TLS model ... at least for my 215 lb body...I almost bought a cherry 2002 tls but instead went for a new 05 TL ... mostly because of the greater cabin & seat room in the newer model. Of course, it cost me a bundle more ... but if I keep it long it will be worth it.
A caution on purchase of the 02-03 TL is the transmission ... the factory extended the warranty to 7yr/70k mi from its orig 50k miles, but beyond that it will be very expensive if a tranny replacement is necessary (this was a factor in my decision to buy new model). Acura Columbus told me that the replacement cost for tranny is close to 5k $$$. A second common problem of the model year in question is rotor wear/replacement ... be sure to check the history of the car you're considering with these points in mind. Good Luck.

donb1 · May 2005

Dealers hould be happy to loan you a car. I have an RRP with Nav on loan from my dealer for the weekend. I will give it a good work out to see how I like it. I did the same with a Toyota Avalon XLS earlier to do a comparison. If you are interested you can see some of my initial observations on the thread comparing the TL vs The Avalon.

travpro · May 2005

Just noticed in my TL 05 this weekend above the cigarette lighter / outlet in the arm rest compartment a white plastic plug which can come out and low and behold 2 wires are fixed to it.

Anybody know what this is for??? Perhaps a peripheral audio device or something else after market to hook up. There didn't appear to be any slack that's for sure.

thx.

austin14 · May 2005

I had a 2002 TL-S that I just sold in order to buy an 05 TL 6MT. From my first full day with the TL-S, I hated the seats: they were flat and overly firm, and tended to really kill the circulation on trips over 2 hours. In the 3.5 years I owned the car, I never really came to like them. I will say that the ride in the 02 was softer (which to me was a bad thing).

I love the seats in my 05 TL, however. My wife finds them far more comfortable as well. I find the ride firmer than my TL-S, but less firm than the 3 Series BMW. If comfort is more important than handling, then I'd say that the TL may not be your ideal choice as a long distance tourer (even though everything else about the interior is ideal for touring), since you will certainly feel the imperfections in the road. I installed the A-Spec suspension soon after taking delivery, and I really feel the road now. I find this to be a great thing, but if you're worried about fatigue or pure comfort, then a car with less sport and more lux may be the better choice. I would probably have gone with the new GS if luxury had been my primary goal. As it is, I find the TL to be a great blend, but that also means that it isn't perfect at either.

ljwalters1 · May 2005

"outlet in the arm rest compartment a white plastic plug which can come out"

That plug is not supposed to come out - the white "plug" is actually a light. When you turn your headlights on, that light lights up the compartment so you can see. It's a pretty thoughtful idea.

travpro · May 2005

Awesome, I can't wait to try it out tonight. Thanks so much.

saoc · May 2005

Here's my problem. Currently in an Audi A6 2.7T and I've been looking at the new A6, M35X and the RL but I don't see the extra 10-12K over the TL. Rumor has it that the 06 TL will have AWD. Is that true? If so when? I live in the snowbelt and want the AWD but could make do with the FWD TL. I'm concerned about torque steer. Had a Volvo S80 turbo which had a wicked pull during hard acceleration.

If the 06TL is going to have an AWD version, I'll wait. I hate to spend the extra $ for the others just to get AWD. The A4 doesn't do anything for me.

Thanks for input. :shades:

liferules · May 2005

Your post is the 1st I've heard of AWD rumors. A lot of people have been putting it on their "wish list" but I'm not aware of anyone having any true reports of this move. I would love it, but it would totally eat the market away from the RL, and thus, I doubt Acura would do it.

saoc · May 2005

I saw it on the 2006 TL forum. I like the RL but the few added features - AWD, advanced key, auto steering wheel adjustment/memory, automatic lights just don't seem to justify the price premium over the TL. The RL is the more comparable car to my A6 but if I'm going to make the jump back into the mid-40+ range I think I'll go with the new A6 or the M35X. I guess I've gotten spoiled by the quattro. It drives like it's on rails. I'm having trouble convincing myself that those other cars are worth 50K+. That's just a lot of cash. :sick:

travpro · May 2005

I see to the left of the gear shift in my new 05 TL a small tab which underneath a button can be depressed. I assume this is the start to dismantling the dash / radio area. I'm curious really about how to get at the back of the head unit to attach another device. I thought somebody out there might know how to go about it.

If I'm wrong on the little cover / button thing I'd love to know what that is for.

Thanks.

travpro · May 2005

I'm curious which ones you have driven that provide more support, I'm a tall guy who might appreciate that aspect.

bodble2 · May 2005

The "buzz" in the industry is that the TL will get the SH-AWD system from the RL. The question is when. Hopefully for 2006 MY. If not, then I think for 2007 for sure, as part of the mid-life cycle upgrades.

bhelsdon · May 2005

That tab is a shift lock override. If the car loses battery power you will need to press the button under that tab to be able to shift the car out of park.

It is not very easy to ge the radio out with out breaking something. You have to first pull off both aluminum trim pieces that run the entire length of the console and up to the navigation screen. Then you will find the screws to remove the radio under those 2 pieces of trim. The little clips on that trim hold on very tight, so be careful not to bend the trim pieces.

akirby · May 2005

"That tab is a shift lock override. If the car loses battery power you will need to press the button under that tab to be able to shift the car out of park. "

You'd think they'd put something that important in the owner's manual.

bhelsdon · May 2005

Are you just making a Statement about the owners manual, or are you questioning the function of the shift lock override?

bhelsdon · May 2005

It can be found on page 185 and 186 in the manual. ITs actually call The shift lock release.

akirby · May 2005

The first one. There is a much more appropriate acronym but I'm not allowed to use it.

ljwalters1 · May 2005

"The "buzz" in the industry is that the TL will get the SH-AWD system from the RL. The question is when. Hopefully for 2006"

I'm no expert, and I don't read all the car mags or industry news, but I'd be VERY surprised if they intro AWD for 2006. I'd consider that a major renovation. Why make such a drastic change/addition when the car is popular and getting good reviews as is?

Nissan has a habit of updating their Altima in ways that makes the Maxima amost moot, but then they update the Maxima, too. I'd think Acura would delay such an upgrade on the TL until at least '08, when they might be ready to update the RL, too (maybe a v8 engine?).

bodble2 · May 2005

You could be right. I don't have any insider's info either. But I'm guessing, and hoping, that Honda advances the intro to keep up with the competition. Most of the TL's competitors have AWD options (G35, Legacy, IS300, 330ix, MB C-class, A4, Passat, etc.)

liferules · May 2005

I agree that if the TL gets SH-AWD it will be tough to beat. It will be a definite competitor for the 3 series, G35, and A4. I still think it would vaporize any RL sales (which aren't too hot to begin with these days by the last numbers I saw). As people above have said, who would pay $15-$20K more for the RL when the TL has all the great features (voice, nav, etc...) and even looks better (IMO).

liferules · May 2005

As to cars with more leg support and comfort, I look to my Audi A6 for one... and honestly, most mid-size cars seem to have a longer lower seat (I'm sure there's a cool name for it but I will call it the "lower seat"). To me, I feel it stops at mid-thigh and that gets uncomfortable after several hours of driving. On top of that, many of the lux cars have that adjustable sliding out thigh support (I've seen it in the 5 series, the A6 4.2, and several MB's). Just not in any entry level lux vehicles...

The TL seats are definitely firm, but just not long enough to me. Works great for my wife (5') though...

ljwalters1 · May 2005

I'm 6'0 (OK, maybe 5'11.5") and the seats are long enough for me. I think I have ave build (not long legs, not long torso) and the seat ends about an inch or tow before my knee.

laurasdada · May 2005

With liferules. The TL is much better looking than the handsome, yet generic, RL. It seems to me that the TL is just a much better value proposition. The RL should have come in at a price point in the low 40's.

And I agree that (for me, too) the bottom seat cushion is a bit too short.

Pumping (wicked expensive!) gas tonight. A guy in a Volvo wagon is staring at my Abyss Blue TL and finally said, "That is one great looking car! What is it, some kinda Honda?" He obviously had a wonderful sense of aesthetic, but a limited knowledge of cars. Totally forgivable. Yup, it sure is some kinda Honda!

To borrow from Mickey D's, "I'm lovin' it!"

liferules · May 2005

Yeah, I had to go into work late tonight, and was loving having the freeway almost to myself. Loads of fun with the TL. Definitely a great car. If it gets AWD, it will be a tough competitor to beat, as its FWD is the only negative about it.

mans911 · May 2005

Hello all,

Would purchasing a K&N High Flow Air filter make any sense? Would I notice any difference in performance at all?

habitat1 · May 2005

I feel like a bit of the "counterpoint" bubble burster here, but I must disagree with suggestions that a future TL with SH-AWD is going to be that much more of a competitor with the BMW 3 series.

SH-AWD would likely add 250 lbs and $2,500+ to the price of a TL. The former is much more offensive than the latter. A 3,700+ lb TL will NOT EVER be as nible or tight as a RWD 50/50 balanced 300-400 lb lighter 330i. I have not driven the new 2006 330i, but understand it is a noticable improvement over the already class leading 330i. However, first hand experience proved to me that the 4,000 lb RL is not remotely competitive with the lighter, much more powerful, 545i 6-speed.

IMO, SH-AWD will allow Acura to compete with Audi's and Mercedes AWD systems for buyers that want some added versitility with respect to foul weather handling. But if someone values performance and handling above all else, the plain old RWD setup, done as good as it gets by BMW, will likely remain at the top of the class.

If handling and performance were my top priorities, I'd likely take a 3,400 lb RWD TL over a 3,700 lb SH-AWD TL, at the same price. I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for the SH-AWD system. I accept that it is even more unlikely that Acura will introduce RWD to the TL than they will endow the RL with a V8, but that's how they could compete better with BMW on both fronts, IMO.

P.S. I am not against engineering technology. But I still believe the best built and most purposeful car I have ever owned was my former Honda S2000. It put Honda/Acura engineering prowess together in a package that effectively competed against the Boxster S at half the price. The same cannot be said of the SH-AWD RL. It is a technological showcase for sure, but as a driver's car, it is a dissapointment.

billyperks · May 2005

I am pretty sure if Acura introduces the SH-AWD on the TL they will definitley bump up the horses and torque up the engine significantly more.

akirby · May 2005

You'll probably only gain 2-3 hp but your fuel mileage may increase slightly and you'll get a different sound. The best part is you can clean it and replace it without having to buy a new one every year.

bodble2 · May 2005

I think the best AWD setup will always be superior to the best RWD setup, at 8/10th limit and beyond, simply by the laws of physics.

I don't think it's fair to compare the RL with the 545i 6-speed, and simply attribute the latter's superiority to its RWD setup. The fact that it's a manual with more hp, and less weight, likely accounted for most, if not all, of its advantage.

kyfdx · May 2005

I disagree... utterly and completely... lol...

jam099 · May 2005

I'm just over 6' and commute about 1 hour each way to work. With all the adjustment controls the seat has, I found with a little trial and error I was able to find a very comfortable position.

liferules · May 2005

habitat1,

You may be right, but only time will tell. If the TL comes out with SH-AWD but is a heavy titan, then you're right. But if it comes out otherwise, it will fulfill what it currently hints at representing... Acura as a Sport-lux car, more BMW-like than Mercedes-like (certainly Audi would also be in competition with it, as would Infiniti, etc...). I doubt it would be as heavy as the RL (if so, how would they distinguish the cars?...they otherwise would have all the same features).

Don't even talk about RWD as we all know that Acura will do that about the same time they come out with a V8 model (anyone see cats and dogs living together yet? Didn't think so).

Bottom line, TL will be MORE competitive to the 3 series with a more RWD leaning platform than FWD. Many people today looking for cars dismiss the TL just because of the FWD. I can't say it will beat the BMW, but will certainly add an attractive alternative to the multitude of 3 series on the road, one that many may wish to take to be different...

igiban · May 2005

Anyone knows what's that for/called? Some kind of deflector? I don't see that very common on other cars and wonder how necessary/useful that is? I did find that piece find some curbs it likes from time to time, and leave marks of it for sure.

armand · May 2005

I assume it is to protect what ever is underneath it. I find it scraps a lot. I was told by my service guy that if I get it onto a curb too firmly, I could pull offf the whole front bumper when I backed away. Not good!

bodble2 · May 2005

I thought it was some sort of underbody splash guard. There are actually a bunch of them --- one long one in the middle approx underneath the radiator. 2 short ones in front of the front tires. And, if I'm not mistaken, little short ones behind the front tires and also in front of the rear tires (not sure about these ones).

wisngamecock · May 2005

Many people today looking for cars dismiss the TL just because of the FWD.

I'm not sure there as many people in this category as you think. I'd argue that for every 1 true driving enthusiast willing to have 2 sets of wheels/tires to deal with winter snow there are probably 3 of us that don't care. Why? Because we never get the chance to drive on a track or a coastal highway where RWD would actually make a difference. You can argue from a purists point about the merits of BMW, but I'll still choose sharp looks, great sound, more room, and sweet 6 sp power for 10 grand less.

liferules · May 2005

I disagree. This isn't about the difference of 200 vs. 275 HP, this is RWD vs FWD. It is very obvious in any driving condition. In fact, its probably on a track or highway where it's least noticed as it mostly impacts the start. Once the car gets going, it is a bullet, and traction isn't an issue.

I notice the FWD every day when trying to accelerate from a stop sign. If there's any gravel on the road, the front wheels spin and the car starts to pull to the side.

You're right in that probably a lot of people buy the car for its looks and gadgets, but I think it could gain some "driving enthusiasts" from the 3 series if it were RWD or SH-AWD.

kyfdx · May 2005

I have to agree with wisngamecock....

Only.. I think for every true driving enthusiast that gets winter tires, there are probably 50 that don't care...

A true driving enthusiast will notice that FWD every day... and miss having RWD... But, there just aren't very many people like that..

regards,
kyfdx

xrunner2 · May 2005

I understand message refers to occasional gravel on pavement. On a somewhat related topic of gravel, for those that still might have to drive on all-gravel roads, a FWD car such as TL (if you did not mind getting paint dinged up) is superior to a RWD in handling. Of course, an AWD car trumps the FWD on gravel.

Before the advent of AWD, "driving enthusiasts" (of an WRC mindset) relished taking their FWD foreign-make cars (Saab, etc.) out for drives on twisty, hilly remote gravel roads. Of course its even better now for them with availability of AWD.

Older Acura TLs

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