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Comments
Jim
Thanks for the info.
I asked the guys at the dealer about the ride and handling, and he said it will handle like a regular window van, but expect to get a quieter ride.
Doubt I could have gotten my wife to go along with the "full size van" idea without those captains chairs.
Ford also has the "Leather" version, it's called the "Traveler" , and it also has the entertainment system.
The only thing I did not like about the onboard entertainment system was the fact it was VHS based. For that kind of money, you would think it would be DVD (both Ford and Chevy).
About the only major difference I can find between the Ford and Chevy version, is the fact Ford sells the "Chateau" in both half and full ton configuration while Chevy only sells the LT in the half ton size.
The real problem with the E150 is that the rear bench seat is just an old bus seat. No head restraints or support to encourage proper sitting position when traveling and falling asleep. Not worthy of my childs safety. That is besides the lack of rear reading lights (at least on earlier model years). The configuration of GM's rear seat is excellent, reclines and encourages a upright seating position rather than falling toward the middle or to the side.
If only GM would offer the heavier duty version and DVD.
You make some interesting points, particularly about the third row bench seat. I also noticed the rear reading lights in the E-150 are above both sets of captains chairs and behind the third row bench (cargo area), so your right, the third row bench does not have direct light for reading.
It would have been nice if the "LT" had been on the showroom floor when we needed to make a decision. We were in a position, with my wife's promotion, where we needed to purchase a second car "today".
As my buddy "xfiles" will confirm, the chevy does have several nice advantages over the Ford (his big one is front leg room). Perhaps when we are back in the market, the "LT" will be something we can consider.
As for the third row bench seat, I can't help but think our kids will be ok, particularly since they are all young and sit in car seats anyway (Boosters for the two oldest). One thing for certain, our kids love the full size van !!!!
On the Entertainment front.....You can purchase the same systems (DVD based) in the aftermarket for much less than you pay GM or Ford for a VHS based system.
p.s. The only down side I have found with the Full Size Van concept is the amount of time it takes to wash and wax. I am pretty sure you will suffer from this issue, on either the GM or Ford version.....
Here is a part of what I found on Lear's web site:
"Production of the luxury vans starts at the GM Wentzville, Mo., assembly plant. The vans are shipped to the new UAW-represented Lear plant nearby, where Lear completes installation of the electronic and electrical distribution system, overhead system, flooring and acoustic system, seats and door panels. After exterior enhancements are installed, GM ships the finished vans to its dealers. As a result of this innovative program, the luxury vans will carry GM factory warranty coverage and can be serviced at any GM dealer."
If you would like to check it out for yourself go here:
http://www.lear.com/net/html/lear_corporation.htm
If it doesn't take you right to it do a search for Express, and it will find it for you. It is under General Motors-Lear Partneship produces...
One other feature I like about the Express LT I did touch on before but did not explain is the re-configurability of the rear seating. You can removethe 2nd row captain chairs and replace them with the 3rd row bench, and install the captain chairs in the 3rd row position. I think you can even install the seats in the 3rd row backwards for a tailgate party or something, but can't confirm this, due to the other misinformation given to me at the auto show. But I do know you can move the bench and buckets, they did a demonstration, so I know at least that much can be done.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
The passenger front door power window button sticks at every other use.
The rear door latch was defective at the first visit. Dealer replaced it but it operates about every fifth pull. Back in the shop for that reason. The interior light override system that kicks off the lights after so long does work. Dealer trying to find out why??? Concern about a sight pull to the left. Dealer says the alignment is fine. I wonder if they will replace the front tires due to uneven tread were.
Love the drive!
Regarding the mirrors fluttering, I have a 2001 model with only 180 miles on it right now and I did look at it the other day since a few others mentioned the problem. I never noticed anything other then the occasional vibration when I went over a significant sized bump. Likely they have improved them for 2001. The problem is if you order a new one it may be anything from a 96-2001 model you would get since they all are identical. In this situation you may not be any better off. Maybe you should try one from a 2001 model from a wrecking yard (check the date on the vehicle is 2001). At least you can buy one cheap enough for one side to see if the problem goes away, and if it does then you can buy the other one.
Regarding the power door buttons sticking, that is a minor problem and cheap to fix if you do it yourself. Pick up a Chilton manual (I got mine at Wallmart). This will show you how. As for the handles not working, I really doubt the dealer replaced it. Did you see them do the work, I bet they lubricated it or something similar and sent you on your merry way with the same problem. If it was really replaced, that same problem would not have returned.....I don't think that is a common problem and I have never seen it on any Savanas I saw.
Regarding the interior light not switching off. The dealer is pulling your leg and obviously does not care for whatever reason to repair it. Normally almost every dealer sends there vehicles out for electrical work to some other specialist. Dealers do not usually get involved in this type of work. Go see an auto electric specialist (yellow pages). They will find it fast, and replace the component...my guess a timer. They can track it down in a flash. I've had much more complex problems then that taken care of quickly, and the Toyota dealer even gave me the phone number and address of an auto electric repair place.
The slight pull to the left by the way may be caused by many reasons....winter pot holes do not help. Depending on the company, I have had wheel alignements done and found my vehicle worse off (wrong specs used). I would trust only someone like a dealer, or someone that has the spec sheets to do the adjustments. I have had a friend return his vehicle to the alighnment shop just to have things returned to the old settings. This makes me think a lot of places do not have the specs and set things to a universal value that is only close (but not exact for that car). If your pulling only a bit, I would not worry about any major problems, it's just an annoyance. Could be the numbers are slightly off on the alignement and they did not want to bother with the labour. As you can see, I DO NOT trust any shops....so I do all my work myself.
Hope I was of help!
Lights-The interior lights may be going off due to the battery rundown feature some of the new ones come with. After 1/2 hour it shuts down the accessory power until the ignition key is turned.
Pulling- Take it to a front end specialist, dealers suck at checking alignments, and rarely even try, just say they did it to shut you up. Try rotating the tires to see if the problem goes away. If not take it in to the front end shop, and have the work done. Take the receipt and more importantly the before and after sheets from the alignment computer as proof. The dealer should reimburse you and turn it in under warranty. If the shop finds nothing wrong it may cost $15 or so for the inspection, a good shop takes a half hour to 45 min to do a good inspection.
Locks-Tell them to replace the switch.
If all else fails find another dealership with a better service dept. Took me 4 dealers to find one. Good luck.
Hopefully a good 4 wheel alignment will take care of you.
Cigarette lighter - X-files thanks for the idea. Went to replace the cig. lighter only to find out that the quick connect plug was very loose. Took a pair of needle nose pliers and firmly re-attached the connector. *Problem solved* The wire too was a little pinched!
Power door lock, passenger side- I took off the conversion wood grain panel and re aligned it. Had to use the help of my son when tighten it back up. Seems the holes were not drilled quite where they should have been. You would have thought the dealer could of handled this one!
Forgot to mention that the pin stripping was replaced. The dealer did take care of this. The adhesive gummed up and created lumps.
The problem with the mirrors still assist. Definitely have to do something about this.
Have a couple of responses regarding the pull to the left. Made appointment at another dealer.
Cammentan - I did notice that after driving through the West Virgina mountains, having to apply the brakes several times the pulling to the left was much more noticeable. Possible caliper problem!
Jgmilberg, This appointment a the other dealer, I going to inquire about replacing the mirrors.
I appreciate all the responses. Great to know that I not alone and my wife thinking I am to picky!
Thanks a bunch !
Jay
http://www.draw-tite.com
Brander@mediaone.net
Where did you get your trailer package, was it part of the Explorer package or like that from the factory? My dealer told me that Explorer would not put in a trailer wiring package that was mounted to the hitch and wired from the underside, it instead had to come from inside the van and hang out between the floor and you then just slam the rear door on the wiring. They said this was because Explorer did not want to drill a hole in the floor. Mind you, I don't know much about it, but this does not sound like a quality setup for towing to me. So how is yours setup and how did you get it that way?
Thanks for your time
One alternative is to check your leaf springs in the rear, perhaps you can remove one and get it down to what the 2500 uses. However, even the ride on the 2500 you may still not like, and softening it further could create a handling problem when you need to tow. The ride on my extended 2500 is not bad when I sat in the first row of bench seats and likely is fair until your over the rear wheels.
Your vehicle is built for leaf springs, not for springs and shocks in the back....there will be NO WAY of attaching them to the rear. The only thing I can see is a different brand of leafs for the rear (aftermarket), or removing one leaf to make it close as possible to a 2500. I would leave the front springs/shocks alone, since they are not what is effecting your ride.
To bad you never test drove the extended models, the 3500 extended I test drove was impressive up front (don't know about the back).A longer wheel base always improves the ride.
Under the chevy/savana reliability forum I remember others discussing the rear ride quality. Two people mentioned putting between 700-800 lbs of weight to the back. One used water bottles, and other sand I think. Not what I would like to do, but perhaps you can find ways of adding some weight to the rear. Perhaps the trunk could be fitted with a 1" piece of plate steel from a wrecking yard (bolted down for safety) which likely would add lot of weight, and then can be covered over by carpetting so it is not visible. It would also not take up any space laying flat. A 1" thick piece 3x3FT has to be quite heavy I bet (or go for a 2-3"piece). This might be your best and cheapest choice.
My friends wife was driven to the airport in a 3500 extended, and even then with a full load she mentioned the ride was a bit rough in the back except for smooth hiways. Perhaps there is no solution to get rid of all of it, but adding weight will always help (with one less leaf in back).
I ordered the van with the hitch and the basic wiring in place under the van. After getting the van from the dealer I took it to a trailer service shop and had the light connector and brake controller installed.($280.00). There are no holes in the floor and the connector is mounted up under the the bumper out of sight. Mounting it in any other position would have put it below the hitch and made it easy to tear off on a curb or driveway.
I have tried putting extra weight in the back and it does work. Just hoping I could find a better solution. Right now I've got about 300 pounds of water back ther in a "Phat Sack" used for weighing down a boat to create a larger wake. I like the idea of using a piece of steel bolted to the floor though. I'll have to check that out.
Since the dealer did not have a van like this in stock and Explorer said they had only ever built about 5 of them, I was unable to test drive one before ours arrived. All in all, we love the van and it can really pull. The new 8.1 liter engine is amazing. Fantastic power. Thanks for the posts. We'll be leaving next month to pull the trailer from Texas to Utah. I'll let you know how our experience with the van progresses.
Those leaf springs have to be able to carry much weight. Unloaded they are going to be rough. Really, the rides in newer vans, especially the GM's (and I'm a Ford-guy) have improved greatly. But you still have to expect a rough ride in a 1 ton.
Good luck. Maybe removing a spring, or replacing all the springs with ones out of a 2500, would be your best bet.
Pro's and cons for each fix of the hard ride.
Weight in back--Pro: Keep trailering and cargo capacity. Cons: Possible flying load in accident. All the time worse gas mileage.
Suspension adjustments--Pro: Tuned and softest ride. Cons: If done wrong, handling may suffer. If done right, trailering and cargo capacity sacrificed.
Someday I'll get around to re doing the suspension because I don't need the towing capacity. The plan is custom springs and air bag suspension plus better shocks. I'll retain the ability to return it to factory specs. Until then, the kids enjoy getting air when hitting the bumps.
1. Conversion van?
2. Trailer? If yes, what?
3. Fluid changed at how many miles?
I am surprised because, the one ton cranny's should be tough. The 4L80E in my 99 is one tough cranny.
Even still, I have replaced the fluid in mine with synthetic because I was once inconvenienced by a cranny in a Chrysler/Dodge and don't ever want to repeat that experience.
Front brake pads worn out. Replaced with fully metallic pads. Thanks to Edmunds this wasn't an unexpected occurrence.
Rear cylinders showing beginning signs of leakage. Will see dealer about the rear cylinders under warranty.
Sorry to hear of your problem. Should be easy to verify. Did the injector service take care of the problem? Fuel filter replaced?
I am also in California. 15 years ago, I had a bad tank of gas in my Toyota Truck. That was an awful experience. Never had a problem since...but now I keep my gas receipts! I am trying to say that if the injector, fuel filter, and fuel tank service fixes the problem, the problem is likely with the gas station not the vehicle.
Please explain the warranty uprade kit free. Did you get new brakes?
Where did you have the vehicle serviced?
Mick
As of today, the SES light is back on, when I started it, it was running rough or missing. I suspect this will be another fuel injector. I live in Phoenix, we get MTBE and ethanol fuel here; is that the problem with the injectors? and if this problem is another injector, i guess the other 6 will go also?
Luckily I have a 6 year/72,000 mi. warranty.
When it comes time to replace the E-350, I will be looking at both Ford and Chevy/GMC, so hopefully some of the brake-related problems currently being experienced by some express/savanna owners are corrected in the future.
As for brake problems your 3500 express is a huge vehicle, and brake life will be a lot less regardless of the brand of full size van. The fact that your living int he hills makes a big difference, and probably makes a bigger difference when the vehicle is so large. For example, I travel a lot through mountain country on my holidays taking pictures, and my brake life on my Tercel is as low as 15-23,000 miles in comparison to about 50,000 miles or more of just flat country driving where I live. By the way, 5 new improvements were made for the 2001 model year, one was improved longer lasting brakes all around, improved torque converter on the 2500/3500 series 4L80E tranny(smoother shifting), improved door handles, improved radios, can't remember the last one).
Good luck!