Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

1262729313255

Comments

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I know they have, but it just doesnt make sense. You dont use a smaller, lower output engine in your $40K+ performance car vs. an Avalon. I think Lexus pulled the wool over their eyes as well.
  • slov98slov98 Member Posts: 112
    I doubt camry would get the same engine as avalon(the discussed 275HP), then it would take sales away from it. why buy expensive avalon if you can get the same engine in a camry?
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    1- You are right. There is no guarantee that there will not be a sludge problem. However, this can apply to any engine from any manufacturer. Others have had a shaky history and have recovered nicely (i.e. Hyundai) I tend to believe what many experts have stated. The problem has been addressed and should no longer be an issue.

    2- The affected 2002 models were in all probability manufactured in 2001. That would account for the year confusion. Do you believe everything you read on the Internet? There is no way to verify its accuracy.

    3- How many complaints are duplicates or a repetition of the same problem. A quick peek at the NHTSA web site will confirm that the same people are complaining about the same problem. Most car mags and the few mechanics I spoke with seem to think that this is a non-issue. Until I see documented, undisputed proof I tend to agree with them.

    4- Anyone how chooses to believe that there is a prevalent sludge problem has the option to purchase any other vehicle they wish to own. However, history dictates that the percentage of owning a reliable car lies with Toyota. The choice is yours.

    Please, you made your point it's now time to put this thing to rest.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    If you havent noticed, the TL has had more horsepower than the more expensive RL for quite awhile. Also, the Avalon and Camry have had the same 3.0Ls for years.
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    Pat_Host requested that the sludge discussion move to a more appropriate venue. Is there one on Edmunds?

    petl, you bring up good points and since this isn't the appropriate venue I won't discuss it further with you. But I did want to point out that we are both right (or wrong) on the model years covered. The V-6's are covered through 2002, but the 4 cylinders are only covered through 2001. The link below is from the horses mouth (Toyota).

    http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/toyota.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp- .php?p_faqid=463&&p_sid=m94V12eh&p_lva=497&p_sp=c- F9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTcmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1zbH- VkZ2UgZ2VsJnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9NCZwX3Byb2RfbHZsMT1_YW55fiZwX3Byb2R- fbHZsMj1_YW55fiZwX3BhZ2U9MQ%2A%2A&p_li=#engines covered
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You'll find a number of sludge discussions in the archives, including one in which Toyota responds. You may read through them, and you may also ask the board host to reopen one that you find appropriate.

    Use the keyword search here on the left for "sludge". Also be aware that the subject has been discussed at great lengths in many Toyota individual model discussions. You can go to individual discussions and use the "Search This Discussion" feature on the page bar - that will find specific posts for you.

    At the top of each archived discussion there are instructions on how to request that it be reopened.

    This will be the last post on the sludge issue in this discussion - thanks.
  • jake123456jake123456 Member Posts: 1
    I'm thinking of getting an 2004 Accord or Camry. Not sure which car, or whether the 4 cyl or 6 cyl model.

    I'm curious what drivers are getting for actual mpg for their 2004 car.
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    I don't read CR, but they aren't wrong. Todays engines by far run differently and the old days of 3k oil changes is no longer. Many cars can go 7500 in everday normal driving. I've had plenty of them with higher miles on them going every 7500k or 3 times per year at min. with no issues. The oldest of which I still own with no issues and it celebrates it 20th anniversary this year. 1983 Hurst Olds with 210,000 miles on the motor. The only major engine related part that I've replaced were the lifters...at 60k miles. Poor Olds design in the 307cu in is all.

    I run synthetic which is more stable and provides overall better running conditions.

    "Comsumer Reports call the 3,000 mile oil change a myth that's propagated by oil companies and quick lube shops". -----------Questions: -----Do YOU believe everything that is in print? ----Will "Consumer Reports" pick - up the cost of an "oil related repair" on your vehicle, if you follow their recommendations? ,/b>
  • brian1brian1 Member Posts: 29
    Why not. Maxima and Altima have the same engine.
  • slov98slov98 Member Posts: 112
    yeah but if you want more horsepower, you have to buy maxima, I believe it's 265 vs 245 HP on altima, V6
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    So, ---what is your point? You didn't answer the question! (Will "Consumer Reports" pick -up the cost of an "oil related repair" on your vehicle, if you follow their recommendations?") A clean crankcase is very important to high quality engine operation. Will an engine operate with 7,500 mile oil and filter changes? ----YES!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Okay, let's get back to talking about the Accord and the Camry.

    Oil changes and opinions about Consumer Reports aren't the subject here.

    Thanks.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    In Louisville there seems to be a price difference of almost 2,000 between a Camry LE 5-speed and an Accord LX 5-speed. I've seen that Camry model advertised for c.$16,400, while the Accord goes for c. $18,000+. There are some things about the Accord that are better, such as standard anti-lock brakes, more sporty handling, etc., but is that worth the difference in price? Any thoughts?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • rutger3rutger3 Member Posts: 361
    $1600 difference seems too much for me, even if you condider that abs would account for about $400 of that. Don't go by ads though, the true difference is what a dealer will actually sell it for (out the door price). Also, check the edmunds TMV price for your area.I would guess that right now, you could probably get each of them for close to invoice, plus tax/title/tags. The resale value is about equal.
  • asawasaw Member Posts: 54
    You know, it's too bad that we won't get the Singapore Camry because I really really like the new tail lights and head lights in the Asian version. They just make the Asian version look so much more better and high class.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Actually, Id skip edmunds.com TMV. In my experience, Ive found that spec-ing out a car using carsdirect.com is a much better indicator of the price you're likely to pay for a particular vehicle. I dont know any Zip Codes for Louisville, but definitely check out that price, normalize for equipment, and I dont think that there will really be such a large difference in price.

    All this talk about sludge- I feel like some people cant get past the past. My SPA notice for our former 2000 MY Camry showed model years from 1997-2001 being affected. FWIW, the 2.4L now used in the Camry is not at all related to the 1992-2001 2.2L 4 cylinder. Its very funny that this thread periodically reverts to the sludge issue. And if you'll notice, it almost immediately follows strings of posts that voice preference for the Camry.. such as doctorrocket's "this could be love post" in which he noted that he is very pleased with the trade of the 2001 Accord V6 in favor of his current 3.3L Camry SE (2004). Makes you wonder.....

    ~alpha
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    The 97-01 Camrys are popular in the used car market so we shouldn't mind if someone wants to discuss the sludge issue. However, as Pat mentioned, this is not the forum for that particular discussion. Since this is a Camry vs Accord forum, I wonder what change Honda is going to make for the 05 Accord? I hope they do something to the exterior.
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    "And if you'll notice, it almost immediately follows strings of posts that voice preference for the Camry.. such as doctorrocket's "this could be love post" in which he noted that he is very pleased with the trade of the 2001 Accord V6 in favor of his current 3.3L Camry SE (2004)."

    Much like when people want to "ding" the Accord, they'll bring up the transmission issue. And trust me, that issue is frequently used by Honda naysayers to make the case that Honda quality has fallen, despite the fact that the Accord is still one of the top rated cars in its class for many things, including reliability. The fact of the matter is, when companies like Toyota and Honda with the reputation for quality and reliability make such notable missteps, it's big news.

    It may be frustrating for fans to see these issues brought up repeatedly and often blown out of proportion, but motownusa is correct in saying that those in the market for a used Camry or Accord have a legitimate interest in such discussions. These forums aren't limited to those who are interested mostly in the newest models.
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    "I wonder what change Honda is going to make for the 05 Accord? I hope they do something to the exterior."

    According to some early information from Honda that was leaked and then pulled, some changes to the taillights are planned. They sounded pretty minor from the description, but some speculate that a more significant change along the lines of the Accord seen in the promo video for the SH-AWD system (announced for the 2005 RL) may be in store. If you haven't seen the video, the change looks to be that the existing taillight sections on the trunk are eliminated completely, which should effectively end the rather overblown Buick comparisons.

    With Honda's 5 year model cycle, the model year for the "major" refresh would be 2006 if they follow recent patterns. So if the above mentioned taillight change makes it into production, I would expect it for 2006, not 2005.
  • richards38richards38 Member Posts: 606
    There probably won't be much styling change in the '05 Accord. The big news will be the addition of a hybrid V6 model. The cruise control and audio buttons on the steering wheel, now not illuminated, are said to be in '05. Also, all Accords from the DX on up will have side curtain airbags standard equipment--a very smart move in my opinion. I have the '04 Accord EX-L, 4 cyl. AT and like it very much.......Richard
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I see your point, though I disagree that Toyota folks are bringing up the Honda transmission issue, at least not recently on this thread. (If your posit was correct, the issue would have been brought up in response to the sludge debate). I would also contend that this comparison thread is about 95% focused on the current and prospective models, and not so much a thorough resource/discussion event for used vehicles.

    That said, I very much enjoy this thread, and I hope people continue to make valuable contributions.

    ~alpha
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    alpha, he said "Honda naysayers" not "Toyota folks" ...
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Whats the difference? :)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Indeed there is a difference, trust me! :)

    But let's get back to the cars now ...
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    "though I disagree that Toyota folks are bringing up the Honda transmission issue, at least not recently on this thread."

    As Pat correctly surmised, I wasn't suggesting any particular group, and I wasn't "positing" anything about this forum. Of any of the various "vs. Accord" forums, the Camry forum seems to be the least likely to showcase that type of sniping from either camp.

    Anyway, my point is that these topics will come up for whatever reason, either for legit discussion or for one-upmanship, and each major competitor has some issue that be brought up as criticism of it. Regardless of your feelings on it one way or the other, the sludge issue is Toyota's "cross to bear".

    "I would also contend that this comparison thread is about 95% focused on the current and prospective models, and not so much a thorough resource/discussion event for used vehicles."

    That was just one possible suggestion for why the topic may continue to come up, even though it's hardly breaking news. For that and other reasons, this issue will continue to come up in various areas of Edmunds that you frequent. And this will happen regardless of whether or not you approve or think it's fair.
  • flgalflgal Member Posts: 9
    I agree with the other post that you should check the OTD price, and actually when you contact carsdirect.com ask them about the OTD price too, because they talk on extra fees and I found more savings going with a car dealership.

    I also had the impression at the beginning of my car search that the Camry was cheaper, but remember that Accord comes with a lot of standard features, like ABS and automatic transmission, while on the Camry's base price I had to add those options. So the base price can be deceptive. Perhaps the most notable thing was that the Camry had a $1500 rebate in FL but small holdback, while the Honda Accord had a $400 manufacturer-dealer incentive and larger holdback, and the Accord was down in sales this year 9% while the Camry was up by 3%, so Honda dealers were more likely to go below invoice. When it came down to the best prices for each car, I found that I had $19,200 OTD for the Accord LX w/ side airbags, and $20,450 for the Camry LE with side/curtain airbags, ABS, Auto transmission, and moonroof. So in all I'd say they came to about the same.

    One thing that swayed me to the Camry was that the Accord LX is limited in options. For instance, they don't have the side/curtain airbags, and they don't have a moonroof. You have to upgrade to the EX to get those options.

    While the Accord was more sporty and fashionable, I had the impression of feeling every bump in the road as if I were hugging the road. The Camry was smooth and quiet, and felt more detached from the road. I guess I value smooth and quiet over sporty :D. It all depends on which one you like and trust better as the better vehicle.
  • richards38richards38 Member Posts: 606
    The Accord EX-L is definitely harder riding than the Camry LE--I bought the Accord because the Camry felt too soft for me. The Camry's engine (4 cyl.) and AT are very smooth, quiet, and fast enough.

    One thing I've noticed is that the hard ride of my Accord seems less harsh after 2500 miles. Maybe I'm just becoming accustomed to the ride or, more likely, the tires (which are properly inflated) and other suspension parts are breaking in and ride quality is better now.

    Anyone who buys either the Accord or the Camry is making a wise choice in my opinion......Richard
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    After 9 months and 17,500 miles I can't find any obvious faults with my 04 EX-L Accord. Smooth engine , great gas mileage, and I have some piece of mind knowing my family and I are reasonably well protected in the event of an accident.

    In the Atlanta area I see weekly ads for the 04 Camry LE automatic for $15,900 while the Accord LX automatic is advertised for $18,500. That's quite a difference, teaser prices or not.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Talon, Pat.... Sometimes, I possess the ability to READ the words that have been written, but somehow, they are transposed by other words when processed in my head! (That makes me sound like a mental case, but really, I just mean that I read one thing and thought/felt another). In any case my apologies. IMO, both the Camry and Accord are excellent choices, and in several model ranges, Id pick the Accord over the Camry. As a Toyota fan, though, Id hope that changes for 2005, with the Camry's fairly significant expected upgrades.

    :)

    ~alpha
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    I find that price EXTREMELY hard to believe, especially for an automatic. Unless it's used, or more likely the 'only one in stock at this price' unit that is invariably gone when you get to the dealer a minute after they open the day the ad runs.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    They have the same price (give or take a few hundred $$) every week. It may be a teaser price but the ads say "several available".
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    The $15,900 is probably either a demo car with a few thousand miles on it or a bare bone car with a stick shift and no anti lock brakes. Remember, the Accord LX comes with standard ABS where as in 4 cylinder Camry LE it is a $400 option. Then add another $800 for automatic and the price difference is cut in half. Before comparing prices you have to see what options are being offered in each car.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    It's a "brand new Toyota Camry LE automatic" according to the add.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    My 95 Camry LE costs more than that. And that car has no keyless entry or even a CD player. It is probably one of those "sucker" add to get you to the dealership. I doubt too many people can actually buy a brand new Camry at that price. At least Honda isn't being deceptive.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Maybe it's an "up front" lease purchase price. It includes the deposit, fees, interest, tax, etc. minus the residual value. I have seen this done with other manufacturers.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Thats a price probably that includes military rebates, owner loyalty rebates, and the factory cash rebate.
  • peter panpeter pan Member Posts: 75
    In Southern California, many dealers run ads for 2004 Camry LE automatic for $15,600. They usually have 5 or more for that price. Soemtimes they run ad price for Camry SE with standard transmission at $16,700 because they are harder to sell. They would not quote SE with automatic over the phone because this model is scarce and much easier to sell.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    "One thing that swayed me to the Camry was that the Accord LX is limited in options. For instance, they don't have the side/curtain airbags, and they don't have a moonroof. You have to upgrade to the EX to get those options"

    So? Isn't that what an EX is? You get the equipment standard instead of as an option. It is the model you get if you want moonroof, etc..
    The models are simplified. What would be the point of an EX if the same equipment was on the LX?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The point, I believe, was that you can on the Camry LE get Side Curtains and Airbags, and the moonroof, without paying for extras that add to the cost of the vehicle but that the buyer may not want- such as larger, costlier tires on more expensive alloy rims, 6 disc CD changer, etc.

    Some prefer Toyota's strategy, some Honda's. For what its worth, I feel the added features on this years Camry make it more attractive against the Accord, my favorite two of both being the SE 4 cylinder Camry and the EX 4 Accord. Pricing is now fairly identical. I think the Camry Standard has a big value advantage over the Accord DX, which is priced similarly once you add at least $1200 for the dealer to install air (which necesitates a hefty labor charge). I do like that all Accords for next year are alleged to have Side Curtain airbags standard- this is a big plus, and Honda should be applauded for it. Im also pretty impressed at Hondas response to the transmission issue, though that itself might give me pause if I was looking toward the V6 model. Regarding the V6 model, Id like to see stability control available as well.

    my .02
    ~alpha
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    First you have to find a Camry with the curtains as a stand alone option. From what I've heard that isn't easy to do. By the time you add a roof and side curtains to the Camry the invoice price is $21,184 vs. $21,008 for a EX automatic Accord. If I'm not mistaken at that price point the Accord will have a few more features than the Camry LE.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Getting a Camry with Side Curtains allegedly, according to some of the dealers that post here, isnt too hard for the upcoming model year. However, some of the Camrys equipped with Curtains are also coming with VSC, which to me, is a very worthwhile feature.

    According to this site, the invoice on a 2005 Camry 5A with optional moonroof and side curtain airbags is $19,670, with an MSRP of $22,040. Thats quite a difference from the $21,000+ invoice figure you quoted above (Where'd you get your figures?). Again, according to this site, the invoice on a 2004 Accord 5A with optional side curtains is $21,009, and an MSRP of 23,290, as you state. So at invoice, there's about a $1500 difference between the Camry LE+moonroof+side curtains vs. the Accord EX w/side curtains. I agree, the Accord has more features, and personally, Id rather match up a Camry SE 4 against the more athletic Accord EX, but since you incorrectly quoted the prices for an LE, I thought I'd go there.

    ~alpha
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    The prices I quoted came from carsdirect.com. If there's a pricing error in my post it's theirs, not mine.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    But that also means you probably used 2004 Camry pricing, since thats all that is available so far on carsdirect.

    ~alpha
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I used 2004 pricing because equipment changes and pricing is not available for the 05 Accord yet.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Ok, so even using Carsdirect.com and a 2004 Camry LE 4sp auto. (with the options of ABS, Side Curtains, Power Moonroof, and Floormats), the Invoice shows as $20,312. Im not trying to be rude, anonymousposts, but your number is still wrong. I know your very pro-Accord, but lets try and be fair here, these forums are, afterall, for the sharing of knowledge.

    Again for reference, Edmunds.com shows the 2005 Camry LE 5sp auto (with the options of the Side Curtains, Power Moonroof and adding what carsdirect.com shows for floor mats- $112) of $19,782.

    ~alpha
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I priced the Camry 2 different ways. I took a 2004 Camry LE automatiic and added side curtains, moonroof, and ABS and came up with an invoice price of $21,002. Then I took a 2004 Camry LE automatic and added the Convenience Plus Package B, ABS, and side curtains and came up with an invoice price of $21,442. Either way the Camry is at least $21,000. Maybe the difference is in the zip codes we are using. However, when I priced the Camry LE 5-speed I came up with numbers very close to what you are saying you saw.

    Insinuating that I am fudging the numbers when all of them are on the internet for everyone to see isn't rude, but it is rather short-sighted.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    The "V" motif in the 2004 Accord dash is ugly in my opinion and the latest Camry looks like a "weight challenged" person sat on an older Camry and squished it out.
         I am afraid to park near a latest model Camry with those very wide rear doors which must be opened very widely to let anyone in the rear seat exit it. That pointy rear edge of the door is wicked to any car parked nearby.
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    You are both right. In the Southeast Toyota region the invoice prices vary from other regions. Also at many dealerships you can't find one without the Toyo Guard Plus Protection Group (roadside assistance plus a pile of worthless crap). With those differences Anonymous's numbers are correct.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I just tried zip codes in three other Toyota distributor regions- CA, PGH, and FL. Invoice varied from my post of 20,312, but none was higher than that, and the lowest was 20,174 (CA). Id be surprised to see the varience cause a $1000 difference in invoice.

    ~alpha

    PS- People fudge numbers all the time, internet or not.
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    Try 30328 and see what you come up with (Atlanta are zip).
Sign In or Register to comment.