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With only 2 choices in full size vans (Ford and GMC), you have to learn to live with one or the other...they all have their problems. You want reliability, buy a Camry, you want a heavy payload, large tow capacity, see how long your Camry will hold up in those conditions (less then 500 miles I bet)....you simply have no choices like with autos. Period! The money I save in motels, hauling, etc more then compensates for any repairs (and I have no complaints so far with my 2001 extended passenger van), and the comfort is superior to any car on long trips. As for 2 rear ends failing, that has never been a problem that others mentioned.
My prior 1997 GMC 1500 was starting to chew through its second tranny at the 50,000 mark, and as I posted previously, I was on my third transmission when I sold it.
On another subject: is it just me or does anyone else think the 2003 Savana front end is ugly?
I'd pay a bit more attention to the recommended fluid change interval based on time rather than mileage.
Oh, and please lose the all caps - too hard to read. Thanks!
Steve, Host
the problems is that it makes a deep whinning noise that starts at aroud 30mph and increases till it peaks at 47 to 50mph. dealer claims it is whithin normal limits, but you can not hear the radio if the speed is kept constant at this 45/50 area.After 53 it lowers it intensity till about 70 when it starts again.
It is an annoying type of noise. I do not believe that this is part of the ride of the veh.
. when my mother rides in our van she has to take her hearing aids off not to go crazy with this deep whinning noise..
three certified techs have told me that GM should repair the rear end.till now no avail.My car is only 18 mths old and have I have had to endure this already for too long.
If anyone has had knowledge of this problem in other vans, please let me know of possible solutions and who to contact to solve to this problem
The van will be 8 passenger with the Vortec 6000 and 4.10 rear axle. According to specs this baby will pull up to 9,900 lbs....so I'll have at 1200 of unused capacity if I buy an 8700 lb trailer.
First impressions on a test drive with a Savanah 2500 passenger standard lenght with 3.73 rear end. Ride was harsher than my Chevy Express 1500. Brakes seem to require a much lighter touch. Dash board is a step backwards with the removal of the passenger grab bar that used to be there. Not good for someone who needs a hand.
I like the engine room the new front end gives me. Steering seems comparable. Choices for wheels are the pits with no chrome or aluminum wheel available from GM.
My only question at this point is the height of the van. No one at GM or the dealership can explain why the 1500, 2500, and 3500 vans are all shown as 81.6 inches high. Yet there is a 1.5" difference in the step height between the 1500 and 2500/3500. Ground clearance on the 2500 is .8" higher in the 2500 than the 1500.
The dealer offered my the ability to take a 2500 cargo van home to make sure it can clear my garage entry. I only have 82.75" available.
Any of you towing with the 2500 with a 4.10 rear end. What kind of gas mileage should I expect? Currently I tow in 3rd with a 6,000 trailer and get about 10 mpg. I'll be selling the Chevy Express which has 20,800 miles.
Regards,
Jack
STL Mo.
My '99 Chevy Express with 3.73 limited slip started its growl about 8 months after I bought it new. I can notice it at about 45 and it increases in volume till about 55. It diminishes very quickly and at 60 you can't hear it. Apparently I have seen other posts about this. Chevy says all is ok so I've lived with it. Transmission has worked flawlessly and I see no difference in noise when I do or do not tow. It does not seem to be load related.
Jack
The new differential was quiet for about 500 miles, and then I started hearing the familiar whining noise again, not as loud as before and ONLY when coasting this time, in the same speed ranges. My differential is a limited slip type.
It is my understanding that the whining noise is caused by somewhat excessive backlash (play between the gears) in the differential. Whatever the cause, it does not seem to affect the differential peformance and hearing the thing whine only when I take my foot off the gas pedal between 45 and 55 MPH is not that bad. So I live with it. However, I must admit that with the original differential the constant whine under load when cruising was rather irritating.
Feel free to use my post as a proof that other companies (e.g. Nissan) take care of their customer problems, as they did in my case. They should replace your differential under warranty. In your case, the vehicle cabin probably amplifies the noise even more than was the case with my truck. I would also talk to a differential expert and see if they could at least alleviate the problem by altering the gear backlash by shimming. GM should at least attempt that much.
But seriously, if you were to loose a lot of money on this vehicle just to get rid of it, I would pursue a used rear axle approach because it cannot be that expensive, and axles like yours are easy to find because they also fit many pickup trucks.
At first I thought that you had an improperly machined differential housing, which would explain repeated bearing failures, but you mention that they replaced the axle housing as well? Did they order a whole axle assembly and bolt in on the vehicle? If I were you I would demand that as the last fix before going to arbitration. Sounds to me like these people do not know how to properly adjust the differential after replacing the parts. Proper differential assembly requires shimming and adjusting the gear contact pattern and backlash correctly. If these parameters are grossly out of adjustment, the differential will fail quickly. Also, the bearings must be pressed in properly to avoid damaging them. This is why you would be better off with a complete factory assembled rear axle.
I have a boat with a 1996 Volvo Penta SX drive. After about 20 hours, there was a loud knocking noise coming out of the drive with the engine running. Turned out that one of the upper gearcase bearings was pressed in crooked and failed. The bearing was replaced, but the drive was noisy and rattled like a bucket of bolts. They replaced all of the bearings in the upper gear case, to no avail. The noise would still be there. They finally replaced the whole drive under warranty and that solved the problem. Either the old gearcase bore was improperly machined, or they reassembled the parts incorrectly. There appears to be an analogy here because both the boat SX drive and your rear axle contain carefully shimmed gears and a number of bearings. I use this example to illustrate that the best fix in your case is replacement of your rear axle with a new complete factory assembled rear axle.
I took it home and watched it like a hawk. I took notes , consulted our fleet mechanic at work, called 2 other Chevy dealers and the consensus was...it won't just stop leaking on it's own.
I took it back and said , I am leaving for Florida towing my 26 ft trailer on Sept 10th. I want to make sure it was fixed. They said they would have to replace the differential housing and would have to order the part. They also said that such a housing is hard to find. They will first have to put a request out to all dealerships asking if anybody has one BEFORE they are allowed to order a new one. I said ,fine , just do it.
Time went by and I kept in contact and was told that we will have your van fixed before you leave. Bottom line, they didn't find one and had to order it. They said it wouldn't be in til about a week after I left. They applied an epoxy cement over the leak saying this will hold til you get back.
We left Sept 10th and about 150 miles into the trip I started smelling a slight burning odor. I crawled under and looked to see the epoxy was getting to a dark brown if not black from the heat. We got to Florida OK and were there about 2 1/2 weeks when I started to hear a faint whining noise. After a couple of days it got louder. I called around Orlando and found ONE Chevy dealer 22 miles away ( Holiday Chevrolet in Kissimmee) that said " bring it right over" Everybody else said next week. On my way to the dealer , it got louder and LOUDER. It was embarrasing to drive ! I made it to the dealer , spoke to them and a service tech took it out for a SHORT drive. He said " you are not driving this van anywhere". All of the fluid has leaked out and the gears are about to seize up.
He made some quick mental calulations and said that the entire rear end , gears , bearings and the housing were all going to have to be replaced . He said that the only part hard to get will be the housing. I had them call my dealer at home and .....they had the new housing on hand. Arrangements were made to ship it to Florida from Pennsylvania and than it was fixed. It took a week ( free rental car) but it was fixed and with another 4,000 miles on it works 100%.
I informed my now FORMER Chevy dealer that I will not be returning to them for any reason ever.
I made another Florida trip with no problems.
I also saw that GM says that the Express does not need a transmission cooler as it has the through the radiator kind. All of the truck tow packages have them but not the van. Anyway, I bought a nice sized cooler and had my own mechanic plumb it in so that it looks stock. Just driving 10 miles it gets so hot you can't put your hand on it.
Towing my 26 ft trailer which weighs about 5400 lbs loaded with the 5.7 and the 3.73 I get a solid 10 mpg. I run about 62 mph.
I spoke to the GM at the dealer and also filed a complaint with General Motors but they said they have NO control over dealers regarding repairs.
This dealer has a billboard nearby their place. ________ Chevrolet. Great Deals, Great Service , Great People. We'll be there for you !
I told the GM that the only thing they lived up to was the good deal. The service was bad, the service people were terrible and they were NOT there for me.
We still love our LT and wish we had the newer V8 but I can't complain about the wonderful longevity and reliability of the 350.
Anyway, after 60K+ miles, the time has come to replace all four of our Savana's original Michelin LTX A/S LT225/75R16E tires.
These tires have served us very well. While we're inclined to stick to the old tried'n'true and look for the identical tires for replacements, does anyone suggest that we consider buying a different tire this time around for any reason? We do happen to live in the wintery Northeast.
BTW, Michelin is offering a $50 rebate on the purchase of 4 tires during the month of July: http://michelinman.com/promo/2003rebate.html
1. Has anyone encountered it? Good or bad experience to report? Wondering about mileage, winter starting, fuel cost benefits, maintenance headaches, etc.
2. The CNG tank is mounted underneath the floor, just in front of the rear bumper. Yes, it sounds like a rear-end collision bomb waiting to happen, but I have to believe that has been thought through and designed accordingly. But the spare tire has been done away with. And there's a sticker underneath the van saying "don't install a tow hitch on this vehicle" Any way to get around these short of removing the CNG system?
3. The van seems well priced and has only 2500 miles. Well-equipped, almost to point where price seems fishy. Dealer (Mercury) says they picked it up at a ford auction in MI. Says it was bought by Ford corporate, as they frequently buy competitors' products and study (i.e. spy on) them. Carfax checks out to report sole owner as a corporate vehicle first registered in Dearborn. I suspect Ford was interested in the CNG package.
4. The sticker under the hood that talks about emission performance on CNG (Quantum Technologies or Impco Technologies) references a "CNG manual supplement for the G-Vans". This is missing (susepct it's still in the desk drawer of some Ford engineer). If anyone has the CNG system, would you be willing to photocopy it for a fee?
Otherwise, the van is clean as a whistle; hardly a speck of dirt in the wheel wells or under the hood. Like it sat in the garage at Ford (probably being dissasembled and re-assembled) the whole time.
Any recommendations?
What has your mpg experiance been?
It has happened 10 times know and has been in the shop 4 times.
It started 4 months after I bought it new and has happened every summer since.
The dealer says that if they can't re-create the problem they can't help me.
Does anybody have any suggestions?
I am leaving for Florida tomorrow I will let you know if it happenens again.
What I've learned is that this is a very reliablel vehicle. You can search for my posts to see what repairs I've made to the vehicle since any time I did have a problem not related to build quality I posted it. I believe my issues were a bad alternator replaced under warranty (I'm at 88K now and the replacement has been going strong) and perhaps I may have commented about lingering issues with the tailights/dashboard lights that would go out occassionally when driving down the road. Also, I had trouble with the driver side window which every 6-12 months decides not to work on a consistent basis but somehow gets better. Other than that our expenses have been oil, tires, and things the kids broke.
As far as transmission troubles that permeatted this board in the early days-- nothing. My brother did replace the tranny in his '97-98 and I believe a defect does exist, at least in those years, but these are actually very reliable vehicles.
What I'm trying to say is that this discussion topic is going to have more people complaining as than praising. I was worried about the tranny going out by 35K or even 60K at the latest, as well as other issues. In the end I have an alternator, a window, and a chronic dimmer/headlight switch issue that I have learned to deal with.
This vehicle has truly exceeded my expectations and has been the most utilitarean vehicle I have ever owned. This is actually a conversion van but I remove the seats to convert it into a cargo van when needed. I've hauled 1 ton of cypress mulch in it, a pallet of sod, plywood, sheetrock, and anything else you can thing of to finish a basement including toilets, cabinets, trim, doors, etc. Really, Really, a dependable and great vehicle.
I saw a post back one or two pages ago that said that they wouldn't purchase a GM van based on the comments on this page. I think that's a mistake-- at least at this moment in time based on my 54 month of owning the vehicle.
For those whose experience has not been as good, please keep posting as it is helpful for all of us.
Steve, Host
Savana SLE 1500 year 2000, now at 70K miles.
Only minor problems, not important to dwell into.
But my next vehicle will be a smaller one if only
to reduce the fuel consumption and have better
braking performance. Fortunately I do not really
need all the space the Savana provided.
It turned out to be two problems: One is in the valve body, the other is a stamped metal part referred to as the "sun shell" that carries torque in 4th, 2nd, and reverse.
In 1993, the 4L60 transmission was introduced as the 4L60E (E=electronic controlled) with a new aluminum valve body. Previous versions of the transmissions used cast iron valve bodys that were absolutely bullet-proof. I don't know all the reasons for the change, but have to think it was to save weight. In any event, the Torque Converter Clutch Valve (TCC) had a tendency in the 96-98 transmissions to wear the bore it slides back and forth in. The round hole would become slightly oblong, allowing trans fluid to leak past the valve resulting in loss of pressure to the Torque Converter lock-up circuit. What happens next is that the PCM, sensing slippage commands maximum line pressure, which results in the hard shift many here complain of.
Interestingly, the hard shift is actually a good thing. It helps prevent the clutches from slipping as they engage by applying the extra fluid pressure so that they engage quicker with less slip. However, if not corrected, the slippage will lead to burning up the torque converter.
The fix is to resleeve the TCC bore and install a new TCC valve. Sonnax makes a kit and sells a special reamer to do this. The kit costs $40-65, and the reamer around $75. The whole job can be done in a few hours. Sonnax has a web site, and are good about providing information on their kits. There are also some good technical papers available at the site as well.
The other problem happened to my pick-up truck at around 68K miles, and to my Van at 72k miles. What happens is you lose 2nd, 4th and Reverse gears, probably experience a big "Clunk" sound. The problem is a basket shaped sheet metal stamping that carries load in 4th, 2nd, and Reverse. There's a splined flange that is spin welded onto the bottom of the basket that transfers torque from the sun shell into the output shaft. After 60000 miles or so, the flange fatigues and the spin-weld fails.
The sun shell has been a marginal part of the 4L60E, as well as it's predecessor models, the 4L60 and the 700R transmissions for a long time. It just became a chronic problem when the company started mating the 4L60E to the higher output Vortec engines beginning in 1996.
Hope this helps.
trolloc
Any comments - suggestions - caveats etc would be appreciated.
Frank
Email: johnering@hotmail.com
Steve, Host