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Comments
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/43901/page020.html
Accord visibility is given the best figures among the family cars tested. Above Maxima & others (Camry wasn't in the test) I bet if Accord is better in Visibility than Max, it HAS to be better than Camry...RIGHT ?? Maybe not for YOU!
Ever notice how distance between Accord's windshield(bottom) & the driver/passenger (or the start of the dash) for that sake is atleast 1 feet more than that of Camry ?
Again a sporty Accord is less of a oxymoron than a Sporty Camry -:))
You have a problem. That problem is you don't know fact from opinion. If you knew the difference, you would know that any *views* represented by articles are opinions. Who's opinions are they? The editors and writer's opinions. What are facts in those articles? 0-60 times, dimensions of the car, how big the engine is, how much power the car produces. Visibility, how a car rides, how a seat feels, how the steering feels, how the brake pedal feels are not facts. They are opinions.
Why are you trying soo hard to try and make me believe the Accord has better visibility than the Camry? Do you really care that much to try and make me switch my mind? I don't care if you find your Accord has the best suspension in the world, the best interior, the most storage space, and the visibility. You know why you shouldn't care and shouldn't even try to switch my mind? Because I have driven both(I own a Accord, 2K) and I have driven Camry's extensively, and IMO, the Camry has better visibility.
"Ever notice how distance between Accord's windshield(bottom) & the driver/passenger (or the start of the dash) for that sake is atleast 1 feet more than that of Camry ?" ANd what does that prove? Remind me next time I drive a Camry to take a ruler with me to measure the distance between driver and windshield!
And again, there is no such thing as a *Sporty Accord*.
FYI, the 2002 Camry will have a *Sporty* version with TRD mods straight from the factory. You may want to read some tests on current Generation TRD Camry's & Solara's.
About the distance between Side Windows & Windshield: You don't need rulers...just an open mind -:)) Also, this distance does not talk about the visibilitty but the 'open feel' you get in Accord !
TRD Toyotas ARE A JOKE !!! Once you put them on the rediculously Soft suspended regular Camry, they drive the cost more than 30K !!! Isn't it a JOKE ???
TRD parts CURRENTLY are REDICULOUS & offer nothing for performance enthusiasts. Also whay would you like to waste you efforts to modify a car which is intended for rediculously soft(toyota salesman call it Luxurious!!) ride & biased towards older crowds who apply cruise at the first available opportunity & go to sleep !!
Who is angry? Just pointing out you can't figure out the difference between *fact* and *opinions*.
Please find 95 out of 100 people who will say the Accords visibility is better. Of course that still means squat to me. Right?
So now, the distance between the driver and the windshield is about *openess* in the car. Who cares?
I wonder why TRD Toyota's are a joke. Maybe because Honda doesn't offer that kind of parts for the Accord with a factory warranty? Or is it because a TRD Camry will run circles around a Accord? Also, a Camry V6 can be had with a 5-speed manual. Can the Accord V6 be had with that? 5-speed manual Camry, TRD suspension and it will handle as well as a Mugen Honda Accord and blow it away in a straight line.
Mugen parts aren't warrantied by Honda.
2) TRD Supercharger runs about $5K installed. and HKS does not produce a turbo kit for the Accord V6. Why? HKS found out the junk Accord transmission can't accept 280bhp!
"TRD Parts cost $9000". Yeah, that's $9,000 for the supercharger, wheels, suspension, intake & exhaust.
If someone did make a turbo/supercharger for the Accord it would cost about $3K to $4K plus installation, springs, shocks & sway bars would cost about $300, $600, $500 respectively plus installation, and intake & exhaust would run about $1K.
Oh, yeah, the only known company even coming out with a supercharger/turbo for the Accord V6 is Comptech and they haven't 1) even finished designing it yet and 2) they don't even know if the Honda tranny will take the power. And 3) expected cost is expected to be about $4,500 to $5,000.
Again, I prove you know *jack* about Accords or Camry's.
Again TRD Parts is sort of a afterthought for a car having sole purpose of providing comfortable, quite, smooth ride & it is designed basicallly for that ! It is not at all ANYWAY designed to be *tuners* car! Accord is very easy to modify & there are a lot of advertisements you cna get from velocity magazine for the parts.
TRD parts are JOKE because if you need a performance car WHY WOULD YOU START WITH a Camry or solara in the first place ???? -:))
For you info, HKS Accord with 280 hp & slammed suspension has been tested about year & a half back !! & the whole package cost (including supercharger & suspension powertrain modification) was about 3500. As I said it is very easy to play with Accord's suspension & to modify it. There are a LOT more modified Accords on the road than the Camrys !!
I am really surprised that somebody cares so much for the cost of TRD parts about 9000! You can get very good entry luxury cars for that price !
The basic observation is that for any tuner Camry is much worse starting point point than any other car....
It is obvious that you don't care about the distance of the side windows & windshield from the driver which gives an open feel in accord just because you just want to ignore that.
Again, It doesn't matter to me if you are an expert & I am a novice....I am just an average consumer who has spent money on 2000 Accord SE & has driven rental camrys for hours....
"So you don't care which car offers better visibility ! If 95% say Accord is better that doesn't mean anything to you. Thats fine with me. It is like you say "IMO it is an orange" but it is actually a banana....!! But thats ok....for you it is orange."
First of all, you won't even find 95 out of 100 people who find the visibility better in a Accord over a camry.
Second, why in this world would I change my mind if 95% of people find the Accord's visibility better? If 95% find the Accords better and the Camry's is better for me, how does it benefit me?
"Again TRD Parts is sort of a afterthought for a car having sole purpose of providing comfortable, quite, smooth ride & it is designed basicallly for that ! It is not at all ANYWAY designed to be *tuners* car! Accord is very easy to modify & there are a lot of advertisements you cna get from velocity magazine for the parts."
Yes, the TRD parts are a afterthought, just like Greddy, Comptech, Mugen, DC Sports, HKS, Borla parts are.
BTW, isn't the sole purpose of a Accord to be a family car? To include a comfortable, smooth ride? Huh. Wait a minute, yes that is the purpose of the Accord.
If TRD parts are a joke, why do they work? Let's see TRD's supercharger for the Camry/Solara works. So do the suspension parts. And from reading articles the magazines agree that TRD parts work great on the cars. So, where's the joke part?
"For you info, HKS Accord with 280 hp & slammed suspension has been tested about year & a half back !! & the whole package cost (including supercharger & suspension powertrain modification) was about 3500"
FYI, that was about 2years ago, and it was a prototype kit that was supposed to come out. Did you actually bother to read the article in Motor Trend? The Accord with the HKS turbo kit and 280bhp only improved it's 0-60 time by about 0.2 seconds. And in that MT article it also said that the transmission seems to be the culprit behind the minimal gain. HKS also gave the reasoning that the honda trans. can't handle the turbo's power. Therefore, HKS ditched the project.
A simple call to HKS would tell you HKS doesn't sell a turbo kit for the Accord. And nor does any other reputable aftermarket tuner.
"I am really surprised that somebody cares so much for the cost of TRD parts about 9000! You can get very good entry luxury cars for that price "
I see as usual, you like to ignore the facts. Base Accord V6 EX Coupe: $25K. AFter discount about $23K. Add $3500+about $1000 for installation of a imaginary turbo kit that HKS sells, add about $300 for springs, $500 all around for shocks, $300-$400 for sway bars, $1000 for exhaust & intake and what do you have? About a $28K car! Again, you can get a 3.2TL, a Audi A4 1.8T, a BMW 325i for that money. why bother with the family hauler Accord?
I spent money on a 2000 Accord EX-V6 coupe also.
And you spent money on a Accord SE. The point is.....??? The point is you can't back up anything you say with real arguments that hold water.
V6 Camry costs atleast 1500 more than V6 Accord, so you have more expensive car after TRD modification.
& for the nth time: Why would you start with Camry/Solara platform if you wanted to make it a sportier car ???
V6 Camry costs atleast 1500 more than V6 Accord, so you have more expensive car after TRD modification.
& for the nth time: Why would you start with Camry/Solara platform if you wanted to make it a sportier car ???
Accord though is a family car us much more *tuners* car & gives a much better platform to work on than current camry version !!
If you want to use Vortech, be my guest, but have fun installing it!
Why would you start with a Accord platform if you wanted to make it a sportier car???
"V6 Camry costs atleast 1500 more than V6 Accord, so you have more expensive car after TRD modification" Now, let's count the advantages of having all of those TRD parts covered under Toyota's bumper to bumper 3/36 and 5/60K powertrain warranty. Are Mugen parts on a Honda going to get you 3/36 coverage?
"Accord though is a family car us much more *tuners* car & gives a much better platform to work on than current camry version !! "
Being a Accord owner, I know the current Accord V6 is not all that popular with tuners. Why? Currently the only real available parts are exhaust headers, exhaust systems, intakes. And then of course pullies. ON the suspension side you can get front strut tower brace, sway bars, stiffer lowering springs, and performance shocks.
All these things can also be had on a Camry and Solara. PLUS the Camry and Solara can be had with a TRD supercharger. So, how is the Accord so much more of a tuner car while the Camry isn't?
HKS was never in the market with a turbo kit for the current Accord V6! HKS never even sold the turbo kit publicly. The HKS Turbo Accord V6 had a PROTOTYPE HKS Turbo.
"There are thousands of more modified Accords than the Camry/Solaras." YOu have stats to back this claim up? And what do you consider modified? if you consider stickers, a big wing, lowering springs, some big rims, and some loud exhaust *modified*. Then yes, thousands of more Accord's are modified. If you talk about real modifications to Accord V6s vs. Camry/Solara V6s, then NO. Because I'm pretty sure there are more Camry/SOlara V6s with superchargers on it then Accord V6s with turbo/superchargers.
And since you're soo bent on saying "Why would you start with Camry/Solara platform if you wanted to make it a sportier car ??? " AGain, for the bazillionth time, why would you start with a Accord if you wanted to make a sportier car. After all, the Accord is not that much more sporty than a Camry/Solara. And for that matter, if you wanted a *sporty* it would be much better to actually buy a *sporty* car like a Honda S2000, Toyota Celica, Acura RSX, Acura NSX, BMW 3-series, Audi A4, Lexus IS300, Chevy Camaro. Mitsu Eclipse and so on.
I love you man. You make it just too easy.
Even if there are no products currently on accord V6 engine as such there are many modifications as you mentioned & also much more modified accords than Camrys on road.....
Again TRD parts for Camry are almost a joke....(for around 9000-10000)
You do not even know what you write. You easily implied a bazillion times that the Accord would be a better starting point for a *sporty* car. How many times have you mentioned Mugen, HKS, while trying to tear down TRDs and the TRD Camry's *sporty* credentials?
"My point is again for the nth time: Why would you like to spend 10,000 on a Camry to make it handle better ? There are MUCH MORE tuner cars out there, like Intergra, Civic (now days focus too)" For the 9th time, you don't have a point.
Why spend $10K on mods for a Accord to make it handle better? You seem to have no problem with $10K of mods to make it handle better but you have a problem with $10K for a Camry. ARen't you simply completely biased in favor of Accords.
A tuner car is anything that can be *tuned*. Who made up the rules that specifically list what a *tuner* car is and is not? Do you not see *tuned* Accords? Camry's? Integra's? Civics? Focus's? Lexus GS400s? BMW 5-series? BMW 3-series? Dodge Vipers? Chevy Vettes? Cadillac Cateras? Lincoln LSs? Lincoln Navigators? Cadillac Escalades? Ford Escapes? All of these and many more vehicles can be tuned.
Cars are bought by people based on what their needs are. If they want to simply haul themselves around, they may buy a Integra. If they have a family they may buy a Accord or Camry. That doesn't mean either car can't be *tuned* by it's owners.
"Even if there are no products currently on accord V6 engine as such there are many modifications as you mentioned & also much more modified accords than Camrys on road....."
the first part of that sentence is a complete contradiction. *no products currently on Accord V6 engine as such there are many modifications*. How can there be no products yet many products?
To simply point this out, the only joke is you.
So let's just chill.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
About Accord vs Camry buy what you like. Accord is sportier & Camry is softer. Accord 4cyl has better power(150hp vs 136) & interior room. Also all-new Camry will be coming out within a month or so.
Yes, you can use a lower gear for passing. In the Honda shifting to D3 will get you a lower gear, and in the Toyota Camry, disengaging the "OD"(Overdrive) button on the shift lever will get you a lower gear for passing. Essentially, disengaging the overdrive drops the transmission down one gear from top geat to 3rd gear.
Maintanence costs are about the same between both cars. Don't listen to either's dealer hype. Both cars need essentially the same servicing at similar mileage points.
Honda recommends oil changes at 3750 or 7500 mile intervals, Toyota recommends at 5000 or 7500 miles. 15K service requires the basics, oil change, oil filter change, air filter change, lubing hinges & tire rotation-The dealer usually pads this and 30K services up by doing brake checks, coolant checks, underbody checks, etc. All this stuff is unnecessary though. I'm soon taking my Honda Accord in for it's 15K service, my dealer wants $195+tax for the 15K mile service which includes oil & filter change, air filter change, tire rotation, hinge & lock lube, brake check, coolant check, suspension check. That's a rip-off! and that is way more than needs to be done.
Ultimately, at max, the 15K service should cost only about $100-on both cars-that would include oil & filter change, tire rotation air filter, maybe wiper blades, & lubing hinges & locks.
And oil changes for both these cars is the typical $20 to $25 at any Honda or Toyota dealer.
As for the cars themselves. The Honda has it's advantages and so does the Toyota.
Honda 4-cylinder sedan pros:
-4-cyl. is slightly more powerful-meaning better acceleration.
-suspension is slightly firmer-which leads to better handling but also a firmer ride.
-more interior room, mostly back seat room. trunk is also larger.
-Honda has a easy pricing setup.
-Honda looks better inside & out, IMO.
-Accord will maintain it's resale value slightly better.
Toyota 4-cylinder Sedan pros:
-suspension is tuned more for comfort & luxury and less for handling.
-Camry transmission is better. Smoother shifting & more refined.
-The overall quality of the car is better.
-Camry is quieter.
-slightly better safety ratings.
As a Toyota enthusiast, let me chime in here -- not to get that whole argument started again, but to add a little different perspective and maybe put the whole matter to rest.
1 - Neither the Accord nor the Camry were designed as performance vehicles. They are both designed as family cars, and they do fabulously well at their intended mission -- which is why they're number 1 and 2 in sales in the US, and have been for years.
2 - Those who need a larger, four-door car than a Civic or Corolla and want the quality, reliability and mechanical stoutness of a Honda or Toyota but want something with a little more power and pizzazz really have no other choice than to buy an Accord or Camry and customize it. It's not ideal, but everything in life is a compromise.
3 - While you can take ANY car to a tuner shop and turbo it, supercharge it, build an all-motor monster or whatever, you will be spending LOTS of money, taking a real risk in terms of reliability and driveability, and you automatically void your factory warranty. Don't even THINK about emmissions testing -- in California, you will fail, meaning that you will have to install another motor in your car just to get your car smogged and registered -- then swap your other motor back. Not cheap and not fun, and you will have to do this every two years. TRD parts (Sport Parts, not Kazuma parts) are factory warranted, CARB certified and thoroughly tested for reliability and driveability. That's the attraction of a factory-engineered system vs aftermarket, wonderful though many aftermarket systems may be.
4 - Price. Once again, if you only want a Honda or Toyota, you have to start with what's available. With a Camry, I'd start with a CE V6 with 5-speed (although the 5-speed is now offered only on the mid-grade model), put my own custom wheels on it, TRD suspension and supercharger, and keep the price at about $25-27k -- not bad, for a family car that will suck the doors off a Mustang and still give you decent milege and driveability. If Honda were to offer something similar in-house, I have no doubt it would be every bit as fast and as driveable. Unfortunately, they don't.
5 - Styling. Always a personal choice, but I much prefer the Camry. Many others prefer the Accord. God bless America!
Jokes aside, very well done comparison.
Thought I'd chime in. I had a 98 Camry V6 and it was great. If you get one be certain to get traction control due to slippery conditions. The Camry's power would be great for the "70" up to Summit County. I can't help but make another recommendation to you - A Subaru Outback. Much more appropriate in my opinion. All wheel drive, ABS, 4 wheel disks, all weather package, etc... and while not quite up to the Honda/Toyota level of refinement and reliability, Subaru's are safe and well built and designed.
Funny thing is we got rid of the Camry and bought an Outback planning a move to Colorado. The move didn't happen so we have the Outback in San Diego of all places. It is great when we go to the local mountains and for reaching trailheads. It scores great in crash testing.
Just a thought. Sorry for the off-topic.
Live Happy,
Chris
1. Passat; nice but expensive
2. Maxima; loud, quirky and expensive
3. Accord; good engine, nice touches inside (some chrome pieces and accents), sunroof, leather BUT seemed to have less interior room than Camry, choppy ride (LA freeways are bumpy), wierd feeling from the passenger seat (almost like being to close to the front of the car), colors were not attractive, no outside temperature readout, rather loud, no CD/tape combo.
4. Camry; good engine, cushy ride, quiet, both CD & tape BUT a little bland, little too soft, no sunroof (LE V6).
After taking into consideration our freeways, and bumpy rides in BMW's and test driven Accord, we settled on a Camry. We really like the quietness and comfort but, I must admit, I'm shopping for wheel/tire upgrade to get a little more feel from the road and better straight line touch on the steering wheel.
Weird thing about 2002 Accord, they have SE for 2002 just like 2000 ! But instead of ABS they now have Sunroof on it !! Invoiced around 18700 (don't know whether destinaiton is included in this)
Sedan: Black Silver Red/White(?)
Coupe : White/Black
Exact same equipement as 2000 SE
(alloys, cassette+CD, Keyless/Truck/Security, fake wood, mats etc)
I don't think SE is on V6 models....but the prices are up across the board ? Which is very strange !
"LX SPECIAL EDITION:keyless entry and security, heated seats, power sunroof, wood print trim, cassette/single CD unit, leather wrapped steering wheel (our LX models comes with the VTEC engines, alloys and ABS)
-anticipating a $1000 to $1500 increase in MSRP
LX V6 4DR SPECIAL EDTION:same as above with alloy wheels"
The heated seats tells me this for the Canadians but the rest should be the same for the U.S. So there's still some hope that Honda may come out with a SE for the LX V6.
* MOONROOF
* 15" ALLOY WHEELS
* AM/FM/CASS/CD PLAYER
* KEYLESS ENTRY
* SECURITY SYSTEM
* DRIVERS POWER HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT
* WOOD GRAIN INTERIOR TRIM ( SEDANS ONLY)
* SILVER METALLIC ACCENT TRIM (COUPES ONLY)
* FRONT AND REAR FLOOR MATS
* SEDAN COLORS : RED,SILVER,BLACK
* COUPE COLORS: WHITE AND BLACK
PRICE IS AT MSRP IS $20,850. PLUS DESTINATION $440.00
Yeepee
Need to paint the lower side moldings like the EX's. That would be nice also.
Did anyone have seen the Camry yet? It's posted on the Toyota for about a week already.
I saw two on the road yesterday, I do like the redesigned taillight but come to the new head light... it's not my type! Apparently, they are trying to make it sportier than the previous and thinking that will help them to get more younger buyers. But definitely I won't get one until they change their "Ford - Focus liked" headlight.
As far as the exterior is concerned, I used to like the 2001 Camry more than 2001 Honda but now I would prefer the 2001 Honda rather the 2002 Camry!
But the Camry's got more features. Nav system, brake assist, VSC, side curtain airbags available.
No matter - it's back to stay, so let's go for some more rounds! :-)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Easy. It was in the "comparison" board. No offense, but that is as good as archived.
But did you notice we followed through with your suggestion and got this board listed separately in the drop-down box?
And also we've put a link to this board at the top of the main Sedans board.
Posting here HAS picked up here since we did that. Thanks for your thoughts.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
30K summary
Miles Covered: 29,927
Running Cost : $3,062.24
Running Cost per mile: 10.23 cents
Gas consumed: 1274.64 Gallons
Cost of Gas: $2,052.37
Average Economy: 23.5 MPG
Best: 30.2 MPG
Worst: 16.8 MPG
Maintenance Cost: $720.98
Maintenance Cost per mile: 2.4 cents
Gas Cost: $2052.37
Gas Cost per mile: 6.85 cents
Miscellaneous costs: 0.98 cents per mile
(Still working on Total Cost of Ownership with depreciation and insurance)
V-6 EX : 7.6 s
Camry V6: 8.3 s
Motor Trend:
V-6 EX : 7.4 s
Camry SE V6: 8.0 s
Saw a copy of Car and Driver in the doctor's office today where they compare various sedans.
Both the Accord LX V6 and the Camry V6 were low-mid 8's in 0-60 time. Slower times than above, and both sources above say the Accord is faster.
Is the LX V6 slower than the EX V6(seems unlikely)or is C&D's time inaccurate?
I used yahoo and performed the following search:
toyota sludge oil
The sludge issue involves all Toyotas 4 and 6 cylinder. The only vehicle not affected is the Sequoia.
Accord: Motor Trend-7.4, Car and Driver-8.3
Altima: Motor Trend-6.6, Car and Driver-7.3
Camry: Motor Trend-8.0, Car and Driver-8.2
Impala: Motor Trend-7.7, Car and Driver-8.6
Taurus: Motor Trend-8.1, Car and Driver-8.9
Maybe different weather had something to do with the time differences. The C/D test was conducted in the winter whereas the MT test was done in the spring. That must be it because there is no way the V6 Accord is only .9 seconds quicker 0-90 than the 4 cylinder automatic(18.8 versus 19.7).