Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Acceleration:
The Accord V6 & Camry V6 have similar power to weight ratios, but Toyota tunes their automatic for smoothness among anything else. This means each shift takes a long time to perform. This kills acceleration times, but everyone loves its smoothness.
1) Saturn is the newest divison of GM, started selling Cars only 1990 with a radically different approach; Saturn has had no connection with Detroit with it's factory is located in Tennessee and you will see no association of Saturn with GM in TV ads, etc. Basically run as a separate, independent division;
2) Saturn has had 50% repeat customers inspite of having only one Model for the years 1990-2000 (surely, a Company must be doing something right if there are 50% repeat customers and the brand name is not a Honda/Toyota);
3) Recently rated #1 in customer service (toppling Lexus) by JDPower surveys; First non-luxury brand to achieve this in 16 years!
4) Been getting #1 in JDPower surveys in Sales satisfaction surveys for the past 2 years;
5) L-series may not match Accord/Camry reliability as it's a recent model from Saturn but their other S-series has been rated good for reliability, quality, fuel mileage;
6) Sticker price is atleast $2.5K lower for a similarly equipped Camry/Accord.
7) On my test run, I found L300 handling, steering, cutting corners as nimble, comfortable as Accord/Camry.
Normally, a person looking at buying a Accord/Camry may not even consider a non-import brand. I also saw it the same way. Until, pleasantly surprised by Saturn.
As I see it, if one is **willing** to look beyond a Honda/Toyota/Nissan - Saturn is worth a look.
Just got a 2002 Accord EX last Saturday. It replaced a 1992 Saab 900, which was a scream to take around turns but spent WAY too much time and money in the shop.
While the Saab was in the shop we rented what turned out to be a Camry, which was just too soft in terms of driving feel. The Camry is an excellent car, for what it does, by any reasonable standard.
Let's be real: Both the Camry and the Accord are excellent cars with different takes on the same question. Drive both and buy the one you like more. Some of the endless debates seem just silly, as one side tries to convert the other. Both cars offer terrific reliability, resale, etc. I don't think either one approaches the fun to drive factor of a VW Passat, Saab 9-3, etc.
To anyone on the fence, just try both and buy the one you like more.
Best Regards,
Bob
the new accord is definitely sharper and more powerful than the new camry. I just do not know if they have eliminated the Accord's irritating interior noise.
although there are times that I really wanted the Camry for its ultra soft ride. Kinda being lulled...which is -as a passenger is nice IMHO.
Now is not the best time to pick on 'Yota's styling!
Honda has the S2000, Civic Si, and the Accord Coupe. But if we count the Si, may as well throw in the Corolla S for Toyota hehe. And for 2003, we can remove all Accords from the sporty category(as far as I'm concerned). But then your idea of sportyness excludes exterior styling so lets just add everything except the Camry since its "floaty"!
I'll give you that the '02 coupe is more sporty (looking) than the Camry or the Solara. Of all the Hondas, I'm kind of partial to the '02 coupe.
The NSX hasn't changed in like 100 years...
The CL-S is old man's car. Aside from the red "S", what is sporty about it? Does it having leather make it sporty? In your eyes that must be what sporty is. The TL is sportier(to me). The RSX is a damn sporty Cavalier though.
Honda period is the old man's interpretation of a car. When is the last time they took a chance? Well, aside from the train wreck '03 Accord. I can admit that the Lexus SC is just as messed up as the Accord though heh.
BTW, old man's cars? Not taking chances? 192 HP on the Camry (LOL). Honda had more than that 5 years ago. Case closed!
vooch, Acura offers the 'Type-S' trim for those who want extra performance from the base model (extra hp, possibly a limited-slip-diff, 6-speed gearbox, performance wheel setup, etc.). The increased performance is what makes it sporty for the CL-S, TL-S, RSX-S. Consider the 'Type-S' as the closest thing to a 'Type-R' version in the current U.S. market.
bodydouble stated "Take a look at the average age of Toyota drivers v. Honda drivers. 'Nuff said."
bodydouble, an average NSX driver isn't 20, nor an average ferrari driver 30. Age has nothing to do in defining what 'sporty' is. Some of the greatest sports cars are owned by people in their 50s.
Both Toyota and Honda cater to their own market segment, and to the fast changing market trend. Whatever sells will be the underlying factor for the design and specs offered by either of the two companies.
In my experience, I cannot remember a time when someone I know said that Honda makes sporty cars(of course I only know 1 person heh). Yes, I realize Acura and Honda are pretty much synonomous and that Acura has the CL and the RSX/Integra, but I didn't think we were talking about Acura or Lexus or Infiniti, Chevrolet, Buick etc.
I realize that the "S" in "CL-S" means 260hp vs. 220hp. I actually shopped the TL but it doesn't have a stick and even if it did I couldn't afford one
Anyway, my point is I thought it was really weird/crazy that you said Toyota doesn't make sporty cars when, of any auto maker, you claim that Honda does, and more so. Made no sense to me, so based on your logic, I had to defend Toyota, because if Honda makes sporty cars, everyone does!
Also, I think that exterior styling is a *large* part of what makes a car sporty, not all but large. I personally think that most people shopping a sporty car do NOT discount the car's exterior styling whereas, get this, someone shopping a family car or economy car might due to attributes they find more important. Seems thats just me and whotheman. Did you buy your CL and completely ignore it's styling? You may have because I think there is a lot of value in the CL/TL.
Enough with my run on sentences. But I give.. you think Honda makes sporty stuff(I don't), I think Toyota does(you don't).
wanted to know what I should expect to pay out the door. I live in atlanta, GA.
can buy now and put in in my wifes name or I can save some more money and
buy in NOV. Do you think that I will be able to find the above vehicle in NOV or
do you think that all the 2002's will be gone by then?. I have heard that the 2002
accord should still be on the lots till DEC but am not sure if this is true. Any ideas?
If my post got you lost, it's because I'm trying to follow your train of logic, and it's difficult.
When Honda can put a stick in the sedan, with the V6, then they can talk about being "sporty", until then, UNTIL THEN....
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
When Honda can put a stick in the sedan, with the V6, then they can talk about being "sporty", until then, UNTIL THEN...."
whodaman, assuming you meant 'Now THAT'S' instead of 'Not THAT's', if an M5 has a sporty interior, then what would a luxury interior be like in your perception?
What are your thoughts on the basic interior design of a Ferrari in comparison to a loaded interior of an M5.
Regarding 'a stick in sedan, with the V6' qualifying as "sporty", would that mean a BMW 850 6sp-auto not qulify as sporty?
Basic fallacy in your post is that you provide no grounds for fact, but premises mainly based on opinion.
For the record, Honda does make 'a stick in sedan, with the V6'. 2003 Honda Accord Coupe V6 6speed manual. or an Acura/Honda CL-S V6 6speed manual.
"SEDAN" in Webster's dictionary: a 2- or 4-door automobile seating 4 or more persons and usually having a permanent top.
I agree with wtm in that, a stick is a must in any sporty vehicle. An auto in an actual sports car is a waste. Whats the point? Also, just having 2-doors pretty much implies sporty in my book.
Anyway, Honda doesn't need to make a V6 stick in their "4-door" sedan because it would be a waste of money. That point has already been made on more than 1 board I'm sure. And I'm sure you can guess why and if not you can browse and find out. Same reason the Camry doesn't come with a V6 stick either.
With the sophistication of the modern auto tranny, a stick is not a MUST in any sporty vehicle as sivtec has already pointed out. It may enhance the sporty experience, but a must? Hell no! MB SLK32 AMG, MB SL500, MB C32 AMG, BMW X5 4.6is. These sporty enough for you? All automatics. Not to mention most Corvettes are sold with auto. Hell, Porsche now offers a slushbox for the 911. Only pubescent boys with testosterone-fuelled bravado will INSIST than a stick is a MUST. Most of those guys wouldn't even know how to handle a manual properly.
And 2 doors does NOT automatically = sporty!! This one blows me away. Most econoboxes are 2-doors. Chrysler had a whole fleet of 2-door K-cars. Toyota tried, and failed miserably, with the 2-door Camry.
"One thing I have noticed from the last generation of Camry...Why is the exhaust hanging like it was an afterthought and held by a velcro-like thing. Is it supposed to spell quality?" At least in the Accord it is welded and no signs of velcro supporting it from falling."
the last stickshift found in the Camry V6 was from 1997 to 2001.
The (Camry) Solara SEV6 still comes with the V6 and 5-speed manual.
Exhaust....velcro? I thought it was welded and supported (and dampened) by rubber exhaust mounts. Can you possibly say the Accord exhaust system is welded to the frame (judging by your comment)?
Comparing apples to apples - a 1999 Accord LX 4 cylinder auto, 40K miles, good condition with a Camry LE 4 cylinder auto, 40K miles, good condition.
The Accord - $9,600
The Camry - $9,075
I seriously doubt the Accord cost $525 more when it rolled off the showroom floor, in fact it might have cost less than the Camry, depending on what kind of deal the buyer got.
go to kbb.com and compare yourself if you doubt these numbers.
If all you care about is sportiness and you really don't care about interior quality then the Nissan Altima 3.5 5-speed seems like it would be the car for you.
And a manual transmission alone does not make a car sporty. Like mentioned above is a 5-speed Corolla more sporty than an IS300 automatic just because you can shift your own gears. Nope. 5-speeds are more fun to drive but like I said, a 5-speed alone doesn't make a car sporty. It can however make a car that would be a terror to drive with an automatic at least somewhat entertaining.
What part of "Civility and respect underlie the success of an on-line community such as Town Hall." in your Membership Agreement is not clear to you??
It is time to regroup and find a way to either be civil to each other, or just SKIP that what is irritating. As always, everyone is welcome to contribute his or her opinions to all of our discussions, but no one is ever welcome to be disrespectful and uncivil in responses to posted messages.
It's really that simple -- email me if you have any questions.
Pat
Sedans Host
The Lexus strategy is....if you a sporty car....the IS300 fills that void. If you want to get pampered with a nice cushy ride...they have the ES300.
So what percentage of people who buy Camrys, Accords, & Taurus actually care about "sportiness"? It's probably not much.
The Camry from the factory will not handle as well as the Accord, Toyota knows that, as they tuned the suspension to emphasize comfort over handling. It doesn't mean struts are inferior.
The Taurus SHO (trying to keep within the market segment here a bit), has a similar suspension geometry as the Camry, and was known for being excellent in handling...struts all around, tuned for handling and it shows.
The GS400 versus BMW 540i, double wishbones (GS)versus struts (BMW), the BMW out-handles the GS400, as in typical fashion, Toyota still a little comfort over handling.