Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

8u6hfd · July 2002

hondacare: See the Toyota Camry thread (where you cross-posted) in the Sedans section to see where you have made a mistake.

Acceleration:
The Accord V6 & Camry V6 have similar power to weight ratios, but Toyota tunes their automatic for smoothness among anything else. This means each shift takes a long time to perform. This kills acceleration times, but everyone loves its smoothness.

np1908 · July 2002

I found Saturn L300 to be one of the most under-appreciated mid-size sedan models around. Agreed, it may not match the reliability of Accords/Camry. Recently, I was in the market for a mid-size sedan (owned an Accord), and did my own research and included Saturn L-series for consideration along with Accord/Camry/Altima and ultimately ended up purchasing one. Saturn's plus points:
1) Saturn is the newest divison of GM, started selling Cars only 1990 with a radically different approach; Saturn has had no connection with Detroit with it's factory is located in Tennessee and you will see no association of Saturn with GM in TV ads, etc. Basically run as a separate, independent division;
2) Saturn has had 50% repeat customers inspite of having only one Model for the years 1990-2000 (surely, a Company must be doing something right if there are 50% repeat customers and the brand name is not a Honda/Toyota);
3) Recently rated #1 in customer service (toppling Lexus) by JDPower surveys; First non-luxury brand to achieve this in 16 years!
4) Been getting #1 in JDPower surveys in Sales satisfaction surveys for the past 2 years;
5) L-series may not match Accord/Camry reliability as it's a recent model from Saturn but their other S-series has been rated good for reliability, quality, fuel mileage;
6) Sticker price is atleast $2.5K lower for a similarly equipped Camry/Accord.
7) On my test run, I found L300 handling, steering, cutting corners as nimble, comfortable as Accord/Camry.

Normally, a person looking at buying a Accord/Camry may not even consider a non-import brand. I also saw it the same way. Until, pleasantly surprised by Saturn.

As I see it, if one is **willing** to look beyond a Honda/Toyota/Nissan - Saturn is worth a look.

naimfan1 · July 2002

All--

Just got a 2002 Accord EX last Saturday. It replaced a 1992 Saab 900, which was a scream to take around turns but spent WAY too much time and money in the shop.

While the Saab was in the shop we rented what turned out to be a Camry, which was just too soft in terms of driving feel. The Camry is an excellent car, for what it does, by any reasonable standard.

Let's be real: Both the Camry and the Accord are excellent cars with different takes on the same question. Drive both and buy the one you like more. Some of the endless debates seem just silly, as one side tries to convert the other. Both cars offer terrific reliability, resale, etc. I don't think either one approaches the fun to drive factor of a VW Passat, Saab 9-3, etc.

To anyone on the fence, just try both and buy the one you like more.

Best Regards,

Bob

scape2 · July 2002

Camry styling is way to much. Toyota tried too hard to make it sportier. The back tailights look like a Flash Gordon knock-off..

bodydouble · July 2002

is simply to stick a spoiler on the trunk! Camry will never be a sporty car. It doesn't have the looks, power, speed, handling, or interior to do that.

vooch · July 2002

Because the same thing could be said about the Accord. Both are equally unsporty and bland, although the Accord coupe is the sportiest of both, IMHO.

bodydouble · July 2002

It handles better, is peppier. Even the interior (esp the dash design)is sportier.

wolverine_x · July 2002

with the new 2003 Accord coming, It will definitely be the Accord this time in terms of styling, handling, and power. (According to published articles.)

the new accord is definitely sharper and more powerful than the new camry. I just do not know if they have eliminated the Accord's irritating interior noise.

although there are times that I really wanted the Camry for its ultra soft ride. Kinda being lulled...which is -as a passenger is nice IMHO.

whotheman · July 2002

The new Accord is ugly, not sporty. And the Camry does look sportier than the new Accord, particularly the SE. The new Accord Coupe looks like a pencil sharpener. Take an Acura CL, and file it down, and you have an Accord coupe. 17" wheels can't save that design. Honda is putting a lot of pressure on their rep to carry it's sales until this car is facelifted! Sales will be god first year, lets see after that.

Now is not the best time to pick on 'Yota's styling!

bodydouble · July 2002

I said, EXCEPT for exterior styling, Accord is sportier. Actually they may be in a dead heat as far is styling goes. I can't think of a sporty-looking current Toyota model off-hand. And don't say Celica. That's not sporty, that's cartoonish.

vooch · July 2002

Except for the Celica, MR2 Spyder, Matrix, and Solara, Toyota doesn't have anything sporty.

Honda has the S2000, Civic Si, and the Accord Coupe. But if we count the Si, may as well throw in the Corolla S for Toyota hehe. And for 2003, we can remove all Accords from the sporty category(as far as I'm concerned). But then your idea of sportyness excludes exterior styling so lets just add everything except the Camry since its "floaty"!

I'll give you that the '02 coupe is more sporty (looking) than the Camry or the Solara. Of all the Hondas, I'm kind of partial to the '02 coupe.

bodydouble · July 2002

I think we are now talking about sporty STYLING. And I still can't think of anything in the entire Toyota/Lexus line-up that fits that description. We can include the S2000, Accord coupe, NSX, CL-S and RSX from Honda/Acura and need go no further because that's probably 4 more than Toyota will have in this decade. And you are joking about the Solara, right? That's an old man's interpretation of a sports coupe. The Matrix? I think the movie version was more entertaining. Toyota has engineered some fine cars, but styling-wise, their cars are either ultra ultra conservative or cartoonish/kooky. The last sporty-looking car from Toyota was the Supra.

vooch · July 2002

I believe you that you cannot find anything sporty about Toyota when you can completely discount a cars exterior for the sake of simply *saying* its sporty.

The NSX hasn't changed in like 100 years...

The CL-S is old man's car. Aside from the red "S", what is sporty about it? Does it having leather make it sporty? In your eyes that must be what sporty is. The TL is sportier(to me). The RSX is a damn sporty Cavalier though.

Honda period is the old man's interpretation of a car. When is the last time they took a chance? Well, aside from the train wreck '03 Accord. I can admit that the Lexus SC is just as messed up as the Accord though heh.

bodydouble · July 2002

I don't have time to update you on what's happened with Hondas over the last 100 years. Take a look at the average age of Toyota drivers v. Honda drivers. 'Nuff said.

BTW, old man's cars? Not taking chances? 192 HP on the Camry (LOL). Honda had more than that 5 years ago. Case closed!

sivtec · July 2002

vooch stated "The CL-S is old man's car. Aside from the red "S", what is sporty about it? Does it having leather make it sporty? In your eyes that must be what sporty is. The TL is sportier(to me). The RSX is a damn sporty Cavalier though."

vooch, Acura offers the 'Type-S' trim for those who want extra performance from the base model (extra hp, possibly a limited-slip-diff, 6-speed gearbox, performance wheel setup, etc.). The increased performance is what makes it sporty for the CL-S, TL-S, RSX-S. Consider the 'Type-S' as the closest thing to a 'Type-R' version in the current U.S. market.

bodydouble stated "Take a look at the average age of Toyota drivers v. Honda drivers. 'Nuff said."

bodydouble, an average NSX driver isn't 20, nor an average ferrari driver 30. Age has nothing to do in defining what 'sporty' is. Some of the greatest sports cars are owned by people in their 50s.

Both Toyota and Honda cater to their own market segment, and to the fast changing market trend. Whatever sells will be the underlying factor for the design and specs offered by either of the two companies.

whotheman · July 2002

And NOT factor in interior and exterior styling? Can you skew the meaning of the word anymore? With an Automatic, how "sporting" can ANY Accord be? No one, that I know, would call ANY Accord "sporty". Saying an Accord is more "Sporty" than a Camry, is like saying Chocolate is more interesting than Vanilla!

bodydouble · July 2002

You gotta get out more!

whotheman · July 2002

I guess that's your way of saying I'm right, huh?

bodydouble · July 2002

Actually I couldn't really understand what exactly you were trying to say at all, so I figured a general mean-nothing response was best.

vooch · July 2002

But chocolate really is more interesting than vanilla. It certainly tastes better.

In my experience, I cannot remember a time when someone I know said that Honda makes sporty cars(of course I only know 1 person heh). Yes, I realize Acura and Honda are pretty much synonomous and that Acura has the CL and the RSX/Integra, but I didn't think we were talking about Acura or Lexus or Infiniti, Chevrolet, Buick etc.

I realize that the "S" in "CL-S" means 260hp vs. 220hp. I actually shopped the TL but it doesn't have a stick and even if it did I couldn't afford one

Anyway, my point is I thought it was really weird/crazy that you said Toyota doesn't make sporty cars when, of any auto maker, you claim that Honda does, and more so. Made no sense to me, so based on your logic, I had to defend Toyota, because if Honda makes sporty cars, everyone does!

Also, I think that exterior styling is a *large* part of what makes a car sporty, not all but large. I personally think that most people shopping a sporty car do NOT discount the car's exterior styling whereas, get this, someone shopping a family car or economy car might due to attributes they find more important. Seems thats just me and whotheman. Did you buy your CL and completely ignore it's styling? You may have because I think there is a lot of value in the CL/TL.

Enough with my run on sentences. But I give.. you think Honda makes sporty stuff(I don't), I think Toyota does(you don't).

parker19 · July 2002

I need a new car ... if you are 30, married no kids, looking for a car that is in the neighborhood of 20 but willing to go a bit higher (5-10) if something was really that much better ... what would you buy and why ... thank you

maxamillion1 · July 2002

I think either the Camry LE with pkg.2 or Pkg. 3 or the Accord LX or EX are good choices for you. Both are great cars that will last forever. Both are reasonable roomy, the Camry having the overall edge. Both are equipped with refinement and high resale value. And reliablity for them both is about even. Right now if I were looking for a sedan around 20K, I'd go with the Camry LE with pkg. 3, ABS, SABs, and alloy wheels...it should be around 22K at the most.

mazdaprofour · July 2002

Hello all. I am looking to purchase a 2002 honda accord 4dr auto DX with AC. I
wanted to know what I should expect to pay out the door. I live in atlanta, GA.
can buy now and put in in my wifes name or I can save some more money and
buy in NOV. Do you think that I will be able to find the above vehicle in NOV or
do you think that all the 2002's will be gone by then?. I have heard that the 2002
accord should still be on the lots till DEC but am not sure if this is true. Any ideas?

whotheman · July 2002

Explain post #708, since you started this idea that the Accord is "sporty", without looking "sporty" inside, outside, and no manual/V6 combination. Your point seems to be a car can be sporty without manual tranny, any sense of style inside, or any sense of style outside. What is a "conservative" car to you?

If my post got you lost, it's because I'm trying to follow your train of logic, and it's difficult.

bodydouble · July 2002

When was the last time style affects a car's sportiness, other than in PERCEPTION? A BMW M5 is not causing any orgasm with its styling. Would you debate its sportiness??

whotheman · July 2002

You are comparing an M5 to an Accord! Have you ever sat in an M5? Or a BMW? Not THAT'S a "sporty" interior! You just proved my point, beautifully! They don't belong in the same State, much less the same conversation!

When Honda can put a stick in the sedan, with the V6, then they can talk about being "sporty", until then, UNTIL THEN....

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

bodydouble · July 2002

You've been hanging around Fords for too long. Actually, why are you hanging in a Honda thread, other than to troll? Do you have some connection to a Honda product that you would care to share with us?

sivtec · July 2002

whodaman posted "You are comparing an M5 to an Accord! Have you ever sat in an M5? Or a BMW? Not THAT'S a "sporty" interior! You just proved my point, beautifully! They don't belong in the same State, much less the same conversation!
When Honda can put a stick in the sedan, with the V6, then they can talk about being "sporty", until then, UNTIL THEN...."

whodaman, assuming you meant 'Now THAT'S' instead of 'Not THAT's', if an M5 has a sporty interior, then what would a luxury interior be like in your perception?
What are your thoughts on the basic interior design of a Ferrari in comparison to a loaded interior of an M5.
Regarding 'a stick in sedan, with the V6' qualifying as "sporty", would that mean a BMW 850 6sp-auto not qulify as sporty?
Basic fallacy in your post is that you provide no grounds for fact, but premises mainly based on opinion.

For the record, Honda does make 'a stick in sedan, with the V6'. 2003 Honda Accord Coupe V6 6speed manual. or an Acura/Honda CL-S V6 6speed manual.

"SEDAN" in Webster's dictionary: a 2- or 4-door automobile seating 4 or more persons and usually having a permanent top.

vooch · July 2002

I thought in general a "coupe" implies a 2-door and "sedan" implies a 4-door. If you check Edmunds own listing you should find that just about all 4-door cars are listed as sedans and most 2-door cars are listed as coupes or roadsters or what-have-you, not sedans. Bleh, its all semantics so it really doesn't matter.

I agree with wtm in that, a stick is a must in any sporty vehicle. An auto in an actual sports car is a waste. Whats the point? Also, just having 2-doors pretty much implies sporty in my book.

Anyway, Honda doesn't need to make a V6 stick in their "4-door" sedan because it would be a waste of money. That point has already been made on more than 1 board I'm sure. And I'm sure you can guess why and if not you can browse and find out. Same reason the Camry doesn't come with a V6 stick either.

bodydouble · August 2002

Ever heard of a 2-door sedan? To qualify as a coupe, the vehicle has to be under a certain back seat capacity -- 33 cubic feet or approx. If it is over the threshold, then it is classified as a sedan, be it 2 or 4 doors. So many of the cars that you consider as coupes are actually sedans.
With the sophistication of the modern auto tranny, a stick is not a MUST in any sporty vehicle as sivtec has already pointed out. It may enhance the sporty experience, but a must? Hell no! MB SLK32 AMG, MB SL500, MB C32 AMG, BMW X5 4.6is. These sporty enough for you? All automatics. Not to mention most Corvettes are sold with auto. Hell, Porsche now offers a slushbox for the 911. Only pubescent boys with testosterone-fuelled bravado will INSIST than a stick is a MUST. Most of those guys wouldn't even know how to handle a manual properly.
And 2 doors does NOT automatically = sporty!! This one blows me away. Most econoboxes are 2-doors. Chrysler had a whole fleet of 2-door K-cars. Toyota tried, and failed miserably, with the 2-door Camry.

wolverine_x · August 2002

it's our fault for feeding trolls like whotheman. Just ignore his post because clearly his intention in the Honda thread is to bash because come to think of it, most of the Camry and Altima and 6 fanatics right now are getting threatened of extinction. What better way to counter such but to bash Honda?

"One thing I have noticed from the last generation of Camry...Why is the exhaust hanging like it was an afterthought and held by a velcro-like thing. Is it supposed to spell quality?" At least in the Accord it is welded and no signs of velcro supporting it from falling."

8u6hfd · August 2002

And they were all found in the Accord-based Acura Legend.

the last stickshift found in the Camry V6 was from 1997 to 2001.

The (Camry) Solara SEV6 still comes with the V6 and 5-speed manual.

Exhaust....velcro? I thought it was welded and supported (and dampened) by rubber exhaust mounts. Can you possibly say the Accord exhaust system is welded to the frame (judging by your comment)?

machiavelli · August 2002

One area where the Accord clearly wins out is in resale.

Comparing apples to apples - a 1999 Accord LX 4 cylinder auto, 40K miles, good condition with a Camry LE 4 cylinder auto, 40K miles, good condition.

The Accord - $9,600
The Camry - $9,075

I seriously doubt the Accord cost $525 more when it rolled off the showroom floor, in fact it might have cost less than the Camry, depending on what kind of deal the buyer got.

go to kbb.com and compare yourself if you doubt these numbers.

th83 · August 2002

Hmmm, the 55-70HP(3-4 cylinder)Geo Metro came standard with a stick, I guess that makes it sporty. Gee, I never knew my grandmother was driving a manual '88 Nissan Sentra because it was sporty. Heck, I guess that makes a lot of those 18-wheelers sporty, too. In fact they must be really sporty with all the gears they have. I guess my automatic Accord V6 just isn't as sporty as a 5-speed Geo Metro, huh? I hate to sound like a Vulcan(sorry, I'm a Trek fan)but all of this sounds "illogical".

anonymousposts · August 2002

You all are missing the funniest part ... somebody who likes/owns Camrys is daring to call a car un-sporty. I have driven plenty of previous generation Camrys and they were far from being considered anything close to sporty. I have driven an 02 Camry and while it is a major improvement over the previous generation (in 4 cylinder trim at least) it is still nowhere near being sporty in my book.

If all you care about is sportiness and you really don't care about interior quality then the Nissan Altima 3.5 5-speed seems like it would be the car for you.

And a manual transmission alone does not make a car sporty. Like mentioned above is a 5-speed Corolla more sporty than an IS300 automatic just because you can shift your own gears. Nope. 5-speeds are more fun to drive but like I said, a 5-speed alone doesn't make a car sporty. It can however make a car that would be a terror to drive with an automatic at least somewhat entertaining.

th83 · August 2002

The Camry and Accord are in no way meant to be sports-sedans like a 3-Series or G35. Everybody knows that but a car doesn't have to be a sports-sedan to be sporty. The Accord is sportier than Camry, so it is fair to say that the Accord has a bit of sportiness to it. If it didn't, then I would agree with you when you say that the Accord isn't sporty or fun to drive. For what it is, the Accord is fun to drive and can be described as sporty compared to other family sedans. Sure, a manual V6 Accord would be sportier than a V6 automatic, but it's unfair to say that the manual is sporty and the automatic isn't. IMO, it's all relative. An Accord can be termed as sporty because it is in fact sportier than a lot of family sedans out there, including Camry.

anonymousposts · August 2002

last time I checked the new Camry V6 is NOT available with a stick. The Solara is but then you have to look at that ugly car every day. Not worth it. And a car doesn't have to be a V6 5-speed to feel sporty. I had a 99 Accord sedan with a stick and it was fun enough to drive to be considered sporty. But like th said .. neither of these cars are meant to be a 3 series. For what they are though the Accord is the choice if you lean towards the sporty end of the boring family car spectrum. The Altima is a better choice but a better interior would do wonders for it.

whotheman · August 2002

WHAT makes the Accord "sporty" compared to any other large commuter car? The Camry? The Galant?

pat · August 2002

Some posts have been removed.

What part of "Civility and respect underlie the success of an on-line community such as Town Hall." in your Membership Agreement is not clear to you??

It is time to regroup and find a way to either be civil to each other, or just SKIP that what is irritating. As always, everyone is welcome to contribute his or her opinions to all of our discussions, but no one is ever welcome to be disrespectful and uncivil in responses to posted messages.

It's really that simple -- email me if you have any questions.

Pat
Sedans Host

8u6hfd · August 2002

The Camry versus IS....

The Lexus strategy is....if you a sporty car....the IS300 fills that void. If you want to get pampered with a nice cushy ride...they have the ES300.

So what percentage of people who buy Camrys, Accords, & Taurus actually care about "sportiness"? It's probably not much.

anonymousposts · August 2002

If you drive the cars back to back you will feel the Camry float more while the Accord feels locked down at higher speeds. The Accords front and rear double wishbone suspension is by nature "sportier" than the Camrys suspension. The interior design (while subjective) appears to lean more towards the sporty side vs. the Camrys almost Buick-like center stack. The Camry is a nice car but it's not a nice & sporty car. I think the Accord is.

8u6hfd · August 2002

Porcshe uses struts. No one really questions its sportiness.

anonymousposts · August 2002

It has nothing to do with the suspension components (although the double wishbones did originate from the racing circuit) but with design and engineering. Toyota wanted a softer ride and that's what they have. Honda obviously prefers a sportier ride with firmer handling characteristics. Buicks probably use struts to so that alone should show that it's not the hardware itself but the design of the hardware.

8u6hfd · August 2002

Double wishbones was there before the days of struts...would you believe the for Pinto had a double wishbone front suspension?

anonymousposts · August 2002

Don't some trucks have double wishbone front suspensions? As I said before it's in the tuning of the hardware.

machiavelli · August 2002

I think a Hummer has double wishbones, maybe even on the rear wheels, and I'm sure it's not a great handling vehicle. Vice Versa, the BMW M3, the Porsche 911, many fine sports cars... have struts. To me the whole big "struts vs. wishbones" argument is kinda silly. Honda purists were all up in arms about the new Civic having struts, like the car was totally ruined.

8u6hfd · August 2002

It's all about how the suspension is tuned.

The Camry from the factory will not handle as well as the Accord, Toyota knows that, as they tuned the suspension to emphasize comfort over handling. It doesn't mean struts are inferior.

The Taurus SHO (trying to keep within the market segment here a bit), has a similar suspension geometry as the Camry, and was known for being excellent in handling...struts all around, tuned for handling and it shows.

The GS400 versus BMW 540i, double wishbones (GS)versus struts (BMW), the BMW out-handles the GS400, as in typical fashion, Toyota still a little comfort over handling.

anonymousposts · August 2002

I never said struts were superior. I just said that double wishbones are a head start on the way to a "sportier" ride.

stantont · August 2002

Amidst all this discussion of whether an Accord can be sporty with an auto trans, or whether a Camry is boring, or whatever: Have any of you actually sat in either of these cars for a long highway trip? I have a 2001 EX v6 Accord, and the seat feels almost too firm, but I can drive it all day and still be comfortable when I climb out. Last week I drove my son's '99 Camry from Tulsa to Austin; about 9 hours including Dallas 5 o'clock traffic. After the first hour I had to stop and roll up a towel as a lumbar support because the seat was so bad. There was no lumbar support of any kind, not even a fixed pad; in fact there was a hollow where your lumbar area needs support!! Even with my best efforts with the towel, after 9 hours behind the wheel, my back was sore for about 4 days. I can't believe Toyota can actually sell a family car with a driver's seat that bad. Is the new 2002 Camry's seat any better?

8u6hfd · August 2002

anonynmousposts : I disagree...but let's leave at that.

Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

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