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It seems logical to me that if they ARE swapping the 2.2 for the 2.4, they would continue to offer a manual transmission since Saturn offers it with the 2.2.
Of course, since it seems logical, GM probably isn't going to do it. I also heard a rumor that GM is going to start installing seats backwards as this provides greater occupant protection in frontal crashes. Probably true...
Say what you like about the V6 Alero but it will outperform a Civic. I love taking my mom's Alero GL out for a spin when I visit her. Perhaps you are not used to all that V6 power and torque. ;-)
Additionally, the Civic SI retailed for $17,000 vs. $21,500 for the Alero GLS V-6. Finally, the Civic SI got an average of 27 MPG vs. 18.6 MPG for the awesome Alero.
Once again, if someone is looking for a sporty, economical, well built car with exceptional resale value the Civic SI is a much better choice than the Alero V-6. It costs less, performs better and is more economical with higher resale value. However, I will admit that the Alero does look nicer than the Civic. As they say, looks aren't everything. Bring on the debates!
If someone does create the discussion, I'll be happy to post a link here so that everyone can find it.
Certainly we can and will have some comparison conversation here from time to time. However, if folks are interested in extending a debate on the merits of the vehicle which is the subject of this discussion versus another very specific vehicle, the appropriate place to pursue that would be in a separate discussion.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Again, if anyone wants to start a comparison discussion on the Alero vs. the Civic SI (or anything else), we would welcome that conversation in our Comparisons folder and I will be happy to provide a link here to that discussion.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
No big deal.
Back to the Alero Pat.
Do you know if the 2.2L for 2002 is a done deal?
1) Are the 2001 having the same problems with the rotors warping or has GM resolved that issue?
2) What kind of problems (if any) have people been experiencing with the Alero? Pleaseinclude any annoyanes as well.
3) What kind of gas mileage can I expect to get with the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder? Real world experiences, please..I know what the sticker say.
4) GM has a reputation of re-using engines in their vehicles. How reliable are these engines?
5) Can anyone explain to me why the GL4 is cheaper (according to Edmunds) then the GL1 when it has the upgraded radio, larger tires and leather interior? Isa the GL 4 a "special" package?
Having owned a 1989 Buick Century for the past 4 years, I willing to try a new GM Product, if the price is right. Any other information or experiences you can share will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
What I mean by re-using engines is the fact that many of GM cars share engines and many have been derived from engines that have been around for decades. While they are reliable (in some cases), powerful and for the most, part feul efficient, they do tend to be rough sounding in some instances, like the 4 cylinder found in the Grand AM and Alero.
> 1) Are the 2001 having the same problems with the rotors warping or has GM resolved that issue?
I've never had a warped rotor. Although I've noticed in the past week that I may have to machine them...
> 2) What kind of problems (if any) have people been experiencing with the Alero? Pleaseinclude any annoyanes as well.
I've had a couple of windows seams reglued, an AC compressor replaced, as well as a battery, supposedely due to Texas' heat.
An annoyance is the B-pillar tilted towards the interior, where it limits head space a bit for tall people like me (6'5"), although I concede that it contributes for the car's good looks. Another annoyance is some subtle ratling coming from the center of the dashboard that comes and goes, but always returns when I drive it on rough roads (rarely).
> 3) What kind of gas mileage can I expect to get with the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder? Real world experiences, please..I know what the sticker say.
I get about 23-24MPG commuting and about 28-29 in the highway with luggage for 4 occupants.
> 4) GM has a reputation of re-using engines in their vehicles. How reliable are these engines?
So far, no engine problem at all. Very peppy and rewarding, yet thrifty at the gas pump.
> Having owned a 1989 Buick Century for the past 4 years, I willing to try a new GM Product, if the price is right. Any other information or experiences you can share will be greatly appreciated.
I'm considering a GM product to replace my Stratus, along with the Accord. I forgot about Camry when I saw its tag for the V6, the same case with the Passat.
HTH
While under warranty:
1. Power steering pump replaced (within 2 years of delivery)
2. Battery leaking acid (October, 2000)
3. Brakes failed due to leaking battery acid, brake lines replaced (October, 2000)
4. Master cruise control switch replaced (December, 2000)
5. Problem with the AC fan not blowing except for on highest speeds (December, 2000)
6. AC fan blew and dash lights lit up when I "honked" the horn, but horn would not honk, using turn signal disengaged my cruise control, then it was turn signals would not work if the headlights were on, when hazard light button depressed all dash lights would come on. Extensive electrical work performed (December, 2000)
In January 2001, just prior to my warranty of 36,000 miles running out:
1. Window channel had to be repaired (A few weeks later - after warranty - another Window Channel begins to detach itself from the doorframe)
2. Service Engine Soon light came on
So I took the car in again. I expressed my concern about the history of the car to my service advisor and requested that the service department go over the car with a fine-toothed comb. He told me that the warranty would not cover this type of service. At the time, short on funds, I was unable to afford the fee they would have charged (I can't remember exactly, but I think it was around $200).
I immediately called the Oldsmobile Customer Relationship service line to voice my concerns about a car, not even 2 ½ years old, that had required such major repairs. My only request was that they extend the warranty period. Their response was: "Let's take care of this problem, first". I never heard from them again and, regrettably, did not follow up with them. BTW: according to my service representative the Powertrain controller just had to be reprogrammed and there was really "no problem" after all. I'd say it's a "problem" when I see the number of people who hove experienced the same thing.
Then, on June 10, 2001 at less than 6,000 miles over the warranty, my car sputtered out in the driveway at my sister's house. I managed to drive (limp) it a half mile to a repair shop nearby. The diagnosis? Bad fuel pump, nearly six hundred dollars. Minutes before, we had been driving major highways and had just exited I-75. As I am sure you know, these highways can be very hazardous for breakdowns and vehicles that experience impaired acceleration.
I called the Oldsmobile Customer Relationship service line again. In short, they acknowledged that the car had a less than stellar history and said that if I sent them the repair bill, they would consider reimbursing the cost in part. I sent them the bill along with a letter requesting not only full reimbursement, but I also requested for the second time that the warranty extended to match the warranty they now issue with their current Alero models. They reimbursed me in full for the fuel pump repair. However, in the letter accompanying the check from Oldsmobile, dated June 25, 2001, they mentioned nothing about my request for extension of the warranty.
Saturday night at 10:30 or so, July 14, 2001, pulling off of I-75 (having driven the same route described previously) the Anti-Lock warning light came on. Shortly afterward the Brake warning light came on. Thankfully, I was only a short distance from my home.
Sunday, I call the dealership, and cannot get a call back from anyone. So I decided to clean the interior of the car. (had to do SOMETHING to get rid of angry energy!) When I was done, I go to start the car and....nothing. I figure the dome lights had been on long enough to drain the battery, so a neighbor comes over and jumps the car. It starts right up. I very slowly and carefully ('cause at this point I'm thinking there may be a brake problem - even tho the light did not come on this time), drive the car to the corner store, and leave it running while in the store to charge the battery (halfway hoping someone would steal it ;-} ). I get in the car, drive it into the carwash, where it dies. Couldn't push it out, so had to jump it again. Drove it out of the carwash, and ALMOST into a parking space (all lights on dash are going berzerk, now) when it died again.
Had it towed into the dealer where they tell me the alternator was bad (could it have gone bad so permaturely due to the earlier short circuiting??? Hmmmmm...just thought of that....). It would cost over $500 to fix.
I called Oldsmobile to open the case a THIRD time. At this point, money, the valuable time lost with repairs and lost use of the vehicle is not the issue.
As if this isn't bad enough, after reading all of the discussion on the rotor problems, I realized that at 30,000 miles Olds service "recommends" a brake job. I paid $179 bucks for a job that was being done for FREE everyday because of the TSB on these rotors! Talk about adding insult to injury!
I also have the scratches up and down the driver's side window as described in many discussions, but thankfully no leaks.
I could have been injured, even killed, due to multiple defects of this vehicle (praise and glory to God for His protection!) The defects I have experienced have NO DOUBT impaired the, USE, VALUE AND SAFETY, and ultimately completely eroded my CONFIDENCE in this vehicle. I have put my life at risk for too long and put too much faith in the SAFETY of this General Motors product.
I told the Olds service advisor that the ONLY reason I had it towed to the dealership across town (out of warranty, I could have taken it to my local shop) is that I have NO INTENTION of driving the vehicle off of their lot
Can a company such as GM get by with sticking a consumer with such a defective product? Or would I have had to have been maimed or killed before they would be forced to do the right thing?
That's my story and I'm sticking with it!
No, I'm not bitter ;-)..... Other than that I love the car...... hrrrrummmph
Although I am not a fan of GM, I wouldn't be too quick to denounce the whole Olds line. Many people have had little problems with the Alero. But I must admit that I have taken the Alero off my list after test driving the Malibu, Civic and Accord. The 4 cylinder was just too rough for me (and the gas mileage is poor compared to the 6) and the 6 cylinder is more expensive then the Malibu which gives you more room and is cheaper (Chevy has $2000 cash back as well).
good luck with your car and keep calling Olds to complain.
I called the NTHSA this morning to report that problem, even though it has been months since it happened. I felt it important information for their database....only wish I had done it sooner
As for the other people who have discussed problems with a leaking battery, I IMPLORE you, don't take this lightly! If there has EVER been evidence of a battery leak in your vehicle, GET YOUR BRAKE LINES CHECKED FOR DAMAGE!!!! Thanks be to God that mine failed in a parking lot! They could have just as easily failed on I-95!
Then you could use the pay-off to buy a new one! If you bought your '99 Alero new, you qualify for the $1500 Olds owner loyalty rebate in addition to the $2000 fact rebate AND the free extended warranty.
It sucks getting a bad apple. But what are the odds of getting two in a row?
1) Back seat makes you sit too low. Not a problem for since I don't ever plan to sit in the back seat but my child's car seat reclined way too much.
2) Noisy 4 cylinder engine. Sounded too rough for my tastes. Reminds me too much of its sister car the Grand Am
3) Price when compared to the Malibu. Malibu gives you standard 6 cylinder engine that gets better gas mileage then the Olds 4 cyl. plus more standard features. And it's larger esp. in the back seat. I like the Olds styling better but not enough to justify the extra cost.
4) Crash test. The poor showing in the crash tests needs to be addressed by Olds even if they plan to discontinue the model in 2004.
Thanks for all the information regarding the Olds. Good Luck with your cars.
I also REPEATEDLY asked the the Customer Care Representative for a physical address for the General Manager of General Motor's Oldsmobile Division so that I could deliver a return receipt requested letter.
All she would give was a PO Box, stating that she could not find any information on a physical address. So I had to call directory assistance for Detroit, got the phone number for Headquarters, made the long distance all, and - VOILA!!! Had all of the information I needed. WHAT'S WITH THAT?
The letter was sent to the GM, Debrah Kelly-Ennis to be delivered before noon today.
I'll let you know what happens.
In the meantime....
I am collecting support "signatures" for the cause. If you are willing, please email me at
alero@epicdomain.com
Just a quick line to say you have read my story on the internet, and you are in agreement that they really need to uphold their commitment to quality and customer satisfaction by replacing this defective vehicle.
Thank you so much!
Also, if you're having problems with your car, it's beneficial for you to keep your demands reasonable. Unless you've got less than 10k miles on the car, you have gotten some use out of the car and should expect to pay for that use (which I assume you do).
While I'm sure you're being reasonable and polite when dealing with the reps, you'd be amazed by the number of people out there who expect brand new cars and birthday cakes when they have problems with their cars. In our litiguous society, there is a distinct group of people out there who consider situations like yours akin to winning the lottery jackpot. The reps have to deal with people like this all day - make sure you don't come across as one of them.
Finally, make sure you don't make the big mistake: telling a rep you won't ever buy a car from their employer again. It's astounding the number of people who use this technique - as if it were effective. Would you bend over backward for someone who has pledged never to return to your business again? Well, neither do they.
Ten bucks says if you asked for a voucher ($2000 or so) for a new Olds to help compensate for the trade-in loss, you'd get it. It might be worth considering if your time is valuable.
I looked at the Malibu, too, and found it boring, and I agree with the person who said they didn't want a civic or an accord because everyone seemed to have one. The Alero is a fine looking car.
One quick question to other owners: do you feel that there's a bit of a delay in the start up? Seems I hold the key to start longer than in other cars, but I wouldn't know, having driven the same rice burner for the last 10 years that is all I can compare it to.
I wish you luck with your Alero. I hope you have better luck than I've had.
And good luck getting service after the Olds dealerships start closing. I've already ran into problems (all the Olds dealerships near me are gone already). Both Chevy GM Goodwrench service centers I've went have REFUSED to do anything other than normal mantainance like oil change and brakes.
As far as starting delays, I too have noticed this on the Alero. It seems to crank over for longer than it should, but it always starts.
I like this car more the more I drive it--it has a lot of pep. Gotta love that v6.
However, after almost 3 years, the delay has been consistent and I haven't noticed any increase.
And it sure is peppy! ;^)
As we all know, by only using that fluid to top off the engine coolant, the system will have to be flushed only every 150000mls or 5 years.
As it has been said here, whenever the oil is changed the service guy may replenish the fluids under the hood, including the coolant. However, if serviced at somewhere else other than a dealer, the coolant will most likely not be GM's orange fluid, but the regular blue one.
Well, if you're like me who doesn't take your car to a dealer to have the oil changed, keep an eye on the guy so that he won't do something wrong like this when he's working in the engine compartment.
HTH
Well, it appears that the 2.2L will be available in the GL2 (as well as GX) model with the stick shift for 2002. I hope that is correct, because that scoots the little Oldsmobile toward the top of my new car shopping list.
Out of curiousity, has anyone driven a 2.2L Saturn with the stick shift? I'd like to hear from you if you have. Thanks!