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I simply cannot get to the reviews section. No mention of a section called "reviews" occurs on the home page I get (www.edmunds.com). All I see is the option for "road tests."If I click that I am taken here:
http://www.edmunds.com/roadtests/?id=nav5B
The main title says "Automotive Reviews."
On that page I select "Long-Term Road Tests" and am taken here:
http://www.edmunds.com/roadtests/longtermroadtests/
On this page I select "2001 Dodge Grand Caravan" and am taken here:
http://www.edmunds.com/roadtests/longtermroadtests/2001/dodge/grand/45220/
And that is as far as I can go.
I see no mention of a "Reviews" section until I come to the Town Hall Community page:
http://townhall.edmunds.com/cgi-bin/townhall
at which point I see the options "Home, New, Used, Reviews, etc." along the top to the right of the "Select Topic" item.
But if I click on "Reviews" I get a "File Not Found" message with the suggestion that I only bookmark the Edmunds home page - which I did.
I simply cannot find or get to any section that has the word "reviews" in its URL.
I am open to suggestion.
1) I believe the 90/10 distribution is under non-slip conditions. It will dynamically change as needed under slip conditions.
2) You said you were considering the AWD. I don't believe you can get the 'normal' or the 'touring' suspensions with AWD -- you get the load-leveling and height control suspension. To get touring (17" wheels not 16") you'd have to get it as an option (or in a package) on the plain ES model, although you could get traction control as an alternative to AWD.
Just to make it more confusing, you can get the load-leveling and height control as an option on the plain ES. But you'll have to check whether you can combine that with the touring wheels (I don't know).
A source for this is http://us.media.daimlerchrysler.com/special/minivan_2001/caravan_features_e.htm
As far as handling is concerned, I can only tell you that my 2001 ES AWD rides a bit stiffly when unloaded. On the plus side, it corners very nicely (for a mini-van, anyway!).
Except for the resonance I have at 2100 rpm, I can't say enough good things about the vehicle.
Hope this helps a little.
--rolfe.
As for the suspension, I think a more accurate question is how does the touring suspension differ from the suspension in the AWD model?
Rolfe - did you compare a FWD with the touring suspension to the AWD before your purchased your van? I'm leaning to the AWD for the improved bad weather traction, but want the best handling I can get even if it means giving up the AWD.
I was going to go for the load-leveling suspension regardless of which model (FWD or AWD) I eventually decided on.
Now, if they'd only offer the 2nd row buckets with the integrated child seat and the 50/50 third row with leather I'd be all set. I also wish I could get both captains chairs with the built in kid seat. Does anyone know what DC doesn't? I don't want a second row bench - too much loss of flexibility.
This is an option, at least on the limited.
You have to be careful on split-mu partially snow covered uphill surfaces. I have been able to get stuck (when starting from a dead stop) on my sloped driveway when one side of the vehicle was on the snow, and the other side was on the plowed surface. Due to the front and rear open differentials, power was leaking to the side with the least resistance; wheels on the side with traction were not spinning at all. I had to back down the driveway and take a run up. I will admit that I tried to get stuck on purpose though ;-) Of course, the 2WD vehicles wouldn't have been able to make it up at all!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
However, there's a good chance you can talk the dealer into a swap as long as you stay within the trim line. For example, you could buy a Limited with the quad-child and full bench, and swap the rear bench with a split-bench Limited. Depends on the dealer ... I did a similar swap with mine (traded the split bench for the sliding full bench) before inking the deal, and the dealer had no problem with it. However, I've heard other dealers won't agree to this.
Why do auto manufacturers abandon a winning style?
In my opinion, DC would have been MUCH smarter to have refined the pre-1996 design by making the window glass flush and made an evolution instead of the radical change for 1996. DC could have added 2nd sliding door, etc to the more overall practical design they had. DC could also make more profit per vehicle without wasting money on a complete re-design by adding the nice features to an existing winning style.
GM made a radical design change with 1990 Impala and killed off one of their popular sedans.
Ford lost sales with radical change of Taurus a few years ago.
DC designs become less appealing to me each change starting with 1996 and now 2001. Thus, our very lovely 1999 GC SE will probably be our first and last DC minivan and based on 26 months and 27,414 miles with zero problems, it will probably last us a VERY long time. No other maker has the many nice features of DC and now DC took off the Trip Computer on all but GC ES and T&C LXi and Limited.
Here is an excerpt from the invoice from the local Dodge dealer:
------------------
"Customer states when turning steering wheel can hear a squeeking noise from front end"
CAUSE: FT Sway Links (N/C)
Link-Sway Eliminator (N/C)
Replace right sway bar end link.
------------------
Fixed under warranty along with a wheel alignment. It worked, the squeeking noise was gone.
Steve
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Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Seats? One of the '94's good points, but even then the "power" seats had a manual control for the seatback that made it hard to find a comfortable position.
Wipers? A major design flaw in the '94's -- hard to keep the windshield clean with the wiper fluid that kept spraying off the wipers. And once you turned the wipers off wiper fluid keeps streaming UP the windshield blocking your view. The '01s also have a nice feature ... the wiper heater.
Better engine compartment access? Maybe ... but how do you like the rubber padding at the top of the compartment that is always falling off in the '94s? Hey, isn't that a cool place to put the jack, next to the engine? ... guaranteed to be heated to 140 degrees F or higher if you have a flat on the road. And just try changing oil without getting it all over the lower surfaces around the engine. The '01's engine compartment shows real design planning; the '94s were nothing but a pile of kludgey retrofits.
And how about the '94's great rear A/C, down the left side of the car? The kids on the left have frozen legs while the kids on the right are in a sauna. And forget dual zone heating ... in '94 the DC minivan even had no option to do both defrost and heat at the same time. Hey, whaddaya want, a clear windshield or warm feet?
If you think the '98's 100 lb rear bench is a pain to move, try it in the '94 without the wheels! Or just try locking in the captains chairs in the rear without jumping on them several times.
Ride, handling? No comparison. Road noise on the '94 is extensive, while the '01 is very quiet.
I could continue, but you get the point....
But, as you know, I liked my 96 enough to get a 01. At least this time it wasn't hard to get used to the change since there wasn't much of any. To me it wasn't really a redesign in my eyes even thought I know it was internally and all. It got more luxury features, nicer wheels (chrome), but kept the same general shape that I had finally gotten used to even if this one still can't hold the same type of objects as my 88 GV LE. I also feel they've shrunken the middle seat leg room with each redesign, but maybe it's just me. I know though that the vans have gone from 192 inches to 199 inches to 200 inches, so I don't know exactly where they are putting the extra room.
Anyway, back to what I really wanted to say...with the way the Chrysler option packages change very other minute, I wouldn't be surprised if they added the trip computer to one of the new models (probably EX) sometime soon. Granted the GC SE didn't get a trip computer option till I believe 99. Keep your fingers crossed.
cgaydos: Many excellent points I had overlooked!
dave210: WOW...you move up in quality. I looked at a very appealing Sterling Silver Satin Glow LXi today...but had the 3.3L. Which engines did you have? Swampcollie feels the 3.8L in his 99 GC Sport is quite superior over the 3.3 and 3.0 in earlier DC minivans. My sister had great praise for everything about her 86 Caravan SE...except for the anemic 4 cyl engine.
We love our zero problem 99 GC SE but after sitting in my niece's 94 GC SE and later a ride in her mother's NEW 2001 Odyssey EX, the driver's seat of our 99 GC SE seemed quite uncomfortable today. Our GC engine accessibility is much worse and cargo area appears less.
However, we can not adequately praise the Dual Zone Temperature Control and Trip Computer of our 99 GC. Odyssey has nice features but I would not trade our 99 GC SE's comfort features for my sister's NEW 2001 Odyssey EX utilitarian features. If I had to pay MSRP, the Ody EX at $26,860 is more attractive than our GC SE at $27,490 and appears to retain value more for trade-in at a later date.
If we would get a new DC minivan, it looks like the T&C LXi is the lowest priced DC minivan that has ALL the features we feel one should get in a DC minivan. I also feel the Chrysler versions are more attractive than the Dodge clone.
dave210, I guess it wasn't stylish enough, but my '89 short Voyager had a terrific body style for hauling the kind of stuff I like to haul (maybe "style" is the wrong choice of word ). My brother's '00 Caravan is definitely more comfortable than my old one was though.
Steve
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Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Frankly, I'd be pretty angry if I had bought one of the early 2001 minivans back in September with no or minimal rebate. Now they carry huge rebates (expect the EX I know). That penalizes the "early adopters" of Chrysler's new minivan with reduced resale value. Notice, Toyota and Honda have no rebates on their vans. I'd bet that resale value will be better in the long run.
Summer's coming. What is Chrysler going to do, up the rebates again, like they did with the 2000 models last year? Just wondering.
88 Grand Voyager LE (MSRP $20,870)-top of the line at the time and waited 3 months on order so we could get the new rear air conditioning, power drivers seat, overhead consol with compass and temperature, 3.0 Mitsubishi V6, luxury cloth.
96 Town and Country LXi (MSRP $30,890)- leather seats, dual zone air, dual power seats, memory driver's seat and mirrors, trip computer plus compass and temperature readout, 3.8 Chrysler V6, tacky (my opinion) gold wheels.
01 Town and Country Limited (MSRP $36,240)-heated seats, triple zone automatic air, 4 disc CD changer, homelink garage door opener, power doors and lift, nice (my opinion) chrome wheels, and larger Chrysler 3.8 V6.
Well, first of all part of what makes the Chrysler minivans attractive is the discounts. Odyssey EX or T&C EX? Price independent, the Odyssey is probably the winner. Consider price, and either you save many thousands on the T&C or you get a high end LXi for the same price as the Odyssey. Either way, the Chrysler competes BECAUSE of price.
In addition, there are many reasons why DC needs to offer rebates (and hidden factory-to-dealer incentives) to make the Chrysler attractive.
1. High supply. More DC's are manufactured than any other minivan. Someone recently posted the stats ... roughly 4 times as many as the Odyssey, for example.
2. Still no crash test results. Many minivan buyers, a significant minority, won't consider a minivan without stellar crash test results. They were due in March, have slipped to May. Expect the crash test results to affect demand, one way or the other.
3. Reliability reputation. As many have posted here, the reliability of the DC minivans have improved dramatically in recent years, but they were stinkers for so long that it will take a lot of years of solid reliability to change their image.
4. Pricing/recession. 2001 prices were set assuming continued economic growth. The slowdown has really hit the high end car market, especially minivans and SUVs.
Most buyers of DC minivans do NOT pay MSRP. Reason: Sales VOLUME. Same reason WalMart can sell for less than the old "Mom and Pop" corner grocery store.
What state are you in? Maybe I'll get lucky and can visit the same dealer.
Thanks, and sorry for beating a dead horse
Seats -Buckets w/1 Child/Split Bench - Add $125.00
http://www.chrysler.com/PriceEquip/step4
I'd be interested in what motivates this post. I see you've been posting in the BMW 3-Series and Toyota Celica groups. Are you "slumming" here?
The only vehicles with comparable interior room are the largest SUVs (Expedition, Navigator, Suburban, Yukon XL). If you need more room you need a full-sized van. The top minivans in sales (Honda, DC, Ford, Toyota) all ride and handle much better than the largest SUVs, use far less fuel, are less susceptible to accidents (the largest SUVs are 3 times more likely to be in single car accidents, which is a pretty good indication of how well they handle), are crashworthy without endangering the lives of everyone NOT in an SUV or Pickup, cost far less than the largest SUVs, are more reliable (okay, Ford Windstar excepted), easier to park, easier for kids to climb into, easier to configure the interior to match changing needs, have more kid-appropriate conveniences (i.e. automatic doors), and fit into normal garages. They can't, of course, go off road, but the largest SUVs don't rate very well off road anyway.
On the other hand, the large SUVs are "cool." They are, in marketing-speak, "lifestyle" vehicles, while minivans are "lifestage" vehicles. We all know how uncool it is to admit you are in a parenting stage.
Hmmm. Rational vs. Cool. Hmmm. You're right, I'll trade my minivan in tomorrow for an Expedition. No, wait, I gotta have an Excursion. That'll impress the chicks.
The discounts do make the Chrysler vans a heck of a value and an attractive alternative to the Odyssey. I'm just trying to point out that people who bought earlier in the model year missed out on these discounts and that would likely affect THEIR resale value. Contrast this with the Toyota Sienna. Still no rebates on a vehicle that has been in production since 1998. Probably less sales volume I guess combined with the Toyota name.
As for the 2002 models with no rebates, guess again. Unless they go the way of the EX model with lots of features for an attractive price, they'll be slapping $1,000 rebates from the get-go like they have done in previous years. It's always hard to end rebates once you start them.
Speaking of the EX model, anyone know why Chrysler decided to use the "EX" designation for their new "Odyssey" fighter? That seems to be an unusual designation since it is not used on any other vehicle at DaimlerChrysler (they of course use the LX designation for the Concorde and Sebring. I know it matches the Odyssey EX model name which is pretty bold.
Micga,
As for why a minivan? Plenty of reasons but compared to what, an SUV? Well then:
Better handling and ride
More passenger room
Better gas mileage
Cheaper initial purchase (most of the time)
Many people buy SUVs that otherwise would be better served by a minivan, yet they care about what others think. Maybe minivan buyers are more practical and don't care what other's think.
Later tried VW Busses (used 1965 and 1977) but VW reliability was so dismal we could not afford the exorbitant maintenance costs so we went back to 1980 Chevrolet Impala 4 door sedan in 1979. Got 1981 Chevy C-10 for me to use as a work vehicle. In 1991 we got a NEW Chevy Astro CL.
Now the children are raised, married and on their own, we traded the Astro in on a NEW GC SE as for us the minivan is THE most comfortable vehicle at a reasonable price. 1999 GC SE averages 27 MPG on 1400 mile trips to Disneyland and we can take a daughter, her husband and 2 children in comfort. Overall mileage of GC SE with 3.3L V6 is 23.5 in 27,444 miles. Sure beats the fuel economy of ANY SUV with comparable room.
I did find the option when I built my own yesterday (a LTD AWD in Steel Blue). Now all I have to do is convince the wife she want's leather since it means heated seats.I figure if we've decided to buy a minivan it might as well be as nice a ride as it can be.
It must be a recent addition (or change) to how they equip the LTD. When I tried this a couple of weeks ago, the option wasn't there. This is true of doing a build with Edmunds' TMV pricing guide too. The brochure from the dealer (admittedly these get out of date pretty quickly) doens't show this either.
What are your likes/dislikes about the system?
Can the VCP (which I believe mounts between the second row seats) be removed (similar to the regular moveable console)?
What did the dealer charge for the unit?
As an alternate, has anyone installed an aftermarket unit from Rosen or BackSeat Theater?
Thanks again.
Thx
You've obviously swallowed the auto advertisements hook-line-&-fisherman. Remember the one where some guys in a gym are listening to an announcement about headlights on the mini van in the parking lot - & nobody went to turn them off? I would have jumped up waving my keys & offered to trade even-up for my SUV: "Give me the practical low-cost great-handling comfortable vehicle. You take my fuel-hog high-insurance lumbering breakdown-prone money-pit."
I got rid of the SUV for all of those reasons, & now I'm a PROUD (not to mention richer, safer, more comfortable, & less inconvenienced) owner of a mini van. I'm about to trade my first one in on a second.
Since you are so easily persuaded by advertisements, take a line from a popular soft-drink ad: "Image is Nothing". If you want excitement, take up skydiving.
Likes:
Color-keyed to your interior; vehicle warranty not affected; Very good A/V quality (IMO better than Rosen or Audiovox).
Dislikes:
None so far. Wish it were a DVD system though!
VCP Center Console: can be mounted between front or middle row bucket seats and cannot be removed according to dealer. But the user manual says it can be removed just like the regular Center Console by disconnecting the cables. I tried but couldn't. There is no detailed instructions on how to remove it.
Can't comment on US pricing, but we paid CAD 2093 (approx. USD 1350). Remember someone mentioned having it installed for USD 1500.
The EX is a great vehicle but I would NOT trade my 1999 GC SE with compass/outside temp/ Trip Computer and lesser 3.3L V6 for the 3.8L and all the extra goodies of the 2001 EX. Chrysler will lose this customer if they do not bring back the complete overhead console data on the 1999 GC SE (that I have)on more models of reasonable pricing. The seats of 2001 SE are MORE comfortable than seats of our 1999.
Meanwhile, no one else has all the nice features we have on our lowly GC SE so we will be keeping this excellent, zero problem minivan longer than we had anticipated.
Based on what you wrote, we were VERY lucky to get our 1999 GC SE since that was THE BEST YEAR to buy an SE. There were very few GC at the dealership on March 20, 1999 when we got ours and one was a base with same Bright White color. We did not realize that our GC had so many nice features until we had it a few days as our 1991 Astro CL had just A/C, PDL, Tilt,middle row captain's seats...NO power windows, no rear air, no rear heater and no luggage rack. The Odyssey LX we ordered was also quite spartan.
Now that we know more about nice options, we would have purchased a GC SE with nicest Sport option having the 3.8L V6 and nicer seats. Hope Chrysler listens and offers the 3.8L V6, Trip Computer, etc. on more than only the ES.
Is it available as a numbered item here?
Thanks
We have had Mercedes and Subarus and 5 visits to the shop in the first 5 months would have been unthinkable. Does anyone think we should start with the certified lemon law letter to DC? Thanks.
BTW, this sort of thing is not unheard of for Mercedes ... I have several anecdotal stories of Mercedes new car problems that simply could not be fixed.
Also, Has anyone with a 2001 Grand Caravan had any transmission problems? I've read some of the boards on Edmunds regarding the transmission problems in the 2000 and earlier models and was wondering if they've been cleared up. It seems that the tranmissions have gone with as low as 35-40k miles, which is making me a bit weary of buying a Dodge.
Thanks!
As to prices, CarsDirect.com is usually a good starting point. Currently there is a low demand-to-supply ratio on these vehicles, which means unpublished factory-to-dealer incentives. Carsdirect.com's price in Mass. for a base GC ES AWD is $28,314, or about $300 above (the pre-advertising fee) invoice after the $2000 rebate. This should be your worst-case price. If you can find a dealer with lots of ES' in stock you should be able to go $1000 or more under (pre-advertising fee) invoice.