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T&C with 16" wheels?
Thanx
-Adam
The answer is: I like it very much. Silky smooth, very comfortable, quiet, powerful enough, and full of fun features. As I've noted here before, the combo of cloth upholstery and 29U package does not include a power passenger seat, despite what the brochure says. My dealer is still claiming that my expectation was warranted and that he will remedy the deficiency. No action yet though.
The tires that it came with are Michelin MX4. They seem excellent.
-Larry
Naples, NY
Thanks for the input. I asked the question about the tires because my wifes 96 Camry has Michelin Energy MXV4 tires. WHile they are smooth riding and comfortable, the handling I find is scary.The car is not happy about changing direction. That may be more a function of a lot of compliance in the Camry suspension to give that famous Camry silken smooth ride. Also, I find the tires poor in the snow. I had to push her with my 300M when she got stuck.
Ed
My experience with the MX4 on two different vans has been good. I have had FWD models and have not seen the need to switch to snow tires in the midwest winters. Tire wear has been over 50,000 miles in mixed driving.
My wifes Camry is the I4 with 14" wheels. What were the 205-60-15 tires you put on the Camry?
Thanx
board throughout the year...keep those posts coming. This forum makes
all of us a more informed group...as
owners or potential owners Edmunds has given us a great tool. Let's use
it!
Happy Vanning.......
It was the last new '01 the Pomona, CA dealer had, and we paid $14588 for the base 2.4 3spd w/ tinted windows/rear defroster, power locks (no pwr windows), roof rack, and f/r floor mats. Amazing, considering the night before we had told the salesperson that the 'red tag' price on the window of $15130 was 'ridiculously cheap' just to have the sales mgr and then the general mgr bring the price down to 14888 over the phone the next morning, then to 14588 in person, respectively.
Also amazing, considering I paid $18500 for the '98 which was configured exactly the same way, except that it had cruise control and integrated child seats, which my '01 does not.
Which brings me to my question Does anyone have any suggestions where we might get a taupe second-row bench w/ integrated child seats for a decent price?
In case anyone's interested, the reason we originally sold the great-condition low-mileage '98 was because before I quit smoking, I had frequently smoked in it and it just seemed a dirty place to tote our then-newborn. Now we have 2 toddlers and while we do love the SUV we need a second vehicle with no less family-hauling capacity than a minivan.
Thanks for any suggestions on the seat!
Congratulations on quitting smoking!
-Larry
Naples, NY
We looked at both 2002 T&C eL and GC eL and were ready to trade to get the 7/100,000 warranty until we learned the low trade-in we could get for our loaded 99 GC SE that is 33 months old and has 36,455 miles.
Thanks. Carl
We bought the 98 Oct-97 for $18522 (after rebate). In Jul-99, with 21336 miles on it Newport Beach Land Rover gave us a 14-day bid to buy @ $11,000, a low figure given that they would have had to wholesale it since they do not sell minivans on their lot
A few days later, someone who answered my ad in the Recycler bought it for $13000.
WHICH IS JUST $1588 LESS THAN WHAT I JUST PAID FOR MY NEW ONE! AMAZING!
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
First, devoting a significant amount of the story to dealer horrors is more self-indulgent than educational. I think that generically, a story about satisfactory dealer service would be a legit story. Sharing a typical semi-horror story about dealer treatment is not worth the words. It is the car and its functionality I want to know about.
Secondly, the bit about being forced to use the remote key fob to open the sliding doors from the outside, is overly dramatic. First I consider that a safety feature. I don't want my little kids to easily open the sliding doors from the outside without my control. Secondly, it is easy to open the doors manually from the outside. The ergonomics are excellent. C'mon, my 70+ mom opens the door and my 3yr old is a month away from doing it too.
Why the editor calls opening the door a way to develop upper body strength makes me wonder how he can turn the key on the ignition to even drive the thing. Poor man.
I do agree with the lousy gas mileage; my AWD experience is about the same. But we sure love the power of the 3.8.
It escapes me why a publication with aspirations of editorial integrity would have their key review of this product written by a (former) owner of the primary competive product and a self-professed fan of the same. Sure it's cheeky and smug that he admits it, but as a reader I wonder how well I am served.
Yes, the editors themselves drive Honda Odyssey vans and pretend to be giving DC minivans a fair chance. Yea right! Every monthy update is littered to references about how great the Honda Odyssey is and how it has features that the Grand Caravan does not, even when it is a review for the Caravan and not the Odyssey. One would not know that if they were to simply read some of those updates.
Also, one thing they refuse to mention is the seating configuration of the Grand Caravan. Can an Odyssey fit 5 people and still have massive cargo room like the Grand Caravan does when one of the sides of the rear 50/50 split bench seats are taken out? No, it cannot, despite its overly-praised fold away third row seat.
The bottom line is that edmunds.com knew the Odyssey was the best minivan market in their book well before the 2001 long term road test for the DGC ES and it reflects in wheir monthy updates. How can a place that brags about being where smart car shopers goto first publish such a biased and innacurate review of one of the most popular and most loved cars in the history of automobiles? Chrysler hasn't sold over 9 million minivans in just over a decade because of rebates and incentives...
-Adam
Facts: Edmunds paid $29,970 for their long term 1999 Odyssey EX and sold it for $22,000. Based on accurate math, that represents an actual depreciation of $7,970. Yet, using creative bias, Edmunds has the audacity to write the Odyssey depreciated only $349.
Why didn't Edmunds buy either an eX or eL model DC minivan and pay much less? The eX has more features than the pricier Odd EX and the eL has more than the Odd LX...each for lower MSRP.
1. Take my son to college
2. Load up 1,300 boxes of Krispy Kreme doughnuts for a high school fund raiser
3. Fit two portable beds in the car for family visitors (once)
Mind you, it's been only three times that I have ever had to remove the seat in the 14 years I've owned Chrysler minivans, and up until 1997, I had never even thought about taking out my 3rd row seat.
Heck, I even fit a new washing machine from Best Buy in my back seat and all I did was unlatch the bench and roll and fold it against the middle row buckets.
And here is Edmund's stating, "Gosh will the new TV fit in the van without taking out those HEAVY 50 pound seats?" I mean, do they like taking the seats out or thinking they're going to have to just so then go complain that it doesn't fold into the floor.
First they complain about the seats and now *GASP* having to open the power doors by pressing a button! Oh the horror! I definitely see merit in the alternate power doors and folding 3rd seat, but they really are digging to big a hole regarding those issues.
I realize everyone's different and probably take out their seats more than me, but to question whether a TV will fit in the back? Come on! And I have not once heard them say they flipped up the split seat to create more room. That's another possibility Oh well....
Now, I'll be the first to admit I have unique needs as far as hauling goes, but it takes all kinds to make a minivan market, and I believe the DC vans are the most versatile on the market.
And as an update, my 2001 Grand Caravan ES now has over 12,000 miles on the clock with not a hint of trouble anywhere.
We have two little ones that sit in the rear row. 80% of the time the middle passenger side seat is out for ease of access and for keeping the endless piles of stuff we accumulate and shuffle throughout the day.
For hauling larger items we will then remove the remaining middle seat. That is very easy and the amount of usuable space is impressive. I got a small wood chipper/shredder back there in August.
The advantage over the Honda is that we can put one kid in one split rear seat, and the other in the parallel middle row seat. By removing the remaining seats we can haul long stuff like fruit trees, and bring the kids who love running around the plant nursery.
I got spoiled with my base '89 Voyager, a 5 seater. When I got my Quest I (sorta like gcintender) threw away the middle bench and moved the rear bench to the mid-ships position.
Everyone's needs are different - I suspect I wouldn't be as thrilled as most Ody owners with the disappearing "magic" seat since I prefer a big empty space in the rear of the van and we rarely have more than one or two passengers in the bench seat.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I'm just a little tired of the Long Term Road Test people always acting as if the Odyssey's seat is the end all be all and that without it being in the Chrysler vans, "They may not even get a TV box in the van without having to take the heavy obtrusive seats out."
That, in my opinion, is being a little over-dramatic. The rest of my rant was really just me summing up the fact that in all the 14 years I've owned Chrysler/DC vans (3 to be exact), never once have I thought I needed to remove the seats for a new 31 inch TV, let alone the Whirlpool washing machine I took home 2 years ago.
That's all. But I agree, I like the idea of the flexible split third row...now if only they moved for an aft, I'd have them. Until then, I'll stick with the 110 pound bench seat in my Limited. :-)
Just thought I would mention that...
Anyway, the reason for my visit has nothing to do with my daily commuter, it has everything to do with our family hauler, which currently is a 1998 Grand Caravan Sport with the somewhat rare 3.8-liter option.
As a bit if history, our van has 48,000 miles on it and to date, its only problem has been a dead battery at about the 38,000 mile mark (I replaced it with a Die-Hard, so I figure we are good to go for a while). Other than the battery, we have not even had so much as a burned out bulb, I guess they just don’t make them like they used to. ;-)
At this point, my wife (the primary driver of the van) is tired of the cloth interior and wants a new van with leather. I assume that means that either a Grand Caravan EX or a Town & Country LXi. Do any of y’all know what the current incentives (if any) are on either of the two above vehicles? I checked the DC web sites and noticed that the incentives that they had listed expired on 8-Jan-2002.
On another subject, our town here in northern New Jersey has what a neighbor calls “[non-permissible content removed] Recycling Rules”, and we buy LOTS of stuff over the Internet and via Mail-Order. As such, the amount and size of cardboard that needs to be recycled requires me to remove both the second and third row seats about once a month. We have also bought a couple of 4’x8’ book cases which fit perfectly in the van (and I do mean PERFECTLY), not to mention plywood and drywall for the basement refinishing project. Needless to say I have LOTS of experience in taking out our seats, and after almost 4 years of doing so, I can perform the entire operation in less than 3 minutes. The only thing that I would wish for is a slightly lighter rear bench, that thing seems to be somewhat heavier than it needs to be.
Sorry for the long post, MOPAR Rules
Best Regards,
Shipo
Since incentives are sometimes geographically specific, you will do best to inquire at a local dealer.
Taking out the separate seats in the third row is really easy. I never dealt with the third row bench in DC products but did in an Aerostar. It wasn't fun.
My '02 T&C LXi AWD is really wonderful. Good luck in your purchase decision!
-Larry
Naples, NY
Anyway, good luck with your buying decision. I'm glad you are going to stick with Chrysler as they make excellent vehicles (we also own a 2001 PT Cruiser Limited which we love).
-Adam
In 1998, we decided that our Neon Sport was just a little too small for our growing family, so off to the local Dodge dealership we went. Given that my eye did not like the look of the gray bumpers of the non-ES versions of the van, I was feeling a little unsure about spending the extra money for an ES. I mentioned this to the salesman and he asked me if I had considered the SE Sport. I was honestly not aware of the “Sport”, however I was pretty sure that the only FWD model available with the 3.8 was in fact the ES, and I told him that I wanted body colored bumpers AND the larger mill. He said, "You are in luck, Chrysler is currently running short of the 3.3 and for a limited time the '29N' package will include the 3.8 for only $200 extra." Sold, we simply looked over his list of allocated vans, picked one and the rest is history.
Given that my daily driver is a 328i, I cannot call our van FAST, however, it is more than adequate for our purposes, which by the way includes a trip or two per year into the West Virginia mountains, loaded to the gills with adults, camping gear, empty fast food containers and Dunkin Donuts bags. ;-) It is also fast enough to beat up on unsuspecting Broncos and such that see our ubiquitous Green Metallic Mini-Van and just assume that they can beat us from a light to the 2-lane to 1-lane merge point.
True story; last summer, a few noisy Lexus IS300 lovers Trolled over to the 3-Series board and started blasting away at all of us “Idiots” who wasted our money on German trash. Needless to say, I developed a bit of an attitude toward most IS300s and their drivers. During the height of the Troll Barrage, I was driving in NYC on my way to my usual Thursday evening appointment. While I was sitting at the light at 56th Street and 11th Avenue, I saw an IS300 in the mirror squeezing past a whole line of cars on 56th, just barely avoiding the parked cars on one side and our line on the other. I was first in line in the Caravan and he eased up next to me, confident that I would be no problem to beat across 11th Avenue. I do not know if he was asleep, or if he was just a little too complacent, however, the 3.8 got the Caravan across first. I could seen in the mirror that he was just a little more than Really Annoyed, given that he was sawing left, right, left behind me, looking for enough room to pass between me and the parked cars. I of course did not help him too much, by just easing over a foot or so to close the door each time he tried to pass. As I pulled up to the 10th Avenue intersection, I noticed one of “New York’s Finest”, out directing traffic; apparently he noticed the antics of the IS300, because as we pulled to a stop, Mr. Officer strolled back to have a little chat with Mr. IS300, and during said chat, I noticed Mr. Officer motioning for our boy to pull over to the curb. Green Light, SEE YA!
Like I said, the 3.8 has more than adequate power for our purposes. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I am happy with the 3.3L of our 99 GC SE but would have opted for the GC Sport with 3.8L had one been available March 20,1999. My friend Kurt has owned 3 DC minivans. First had the 3.0L, the next a 3.3L and now his 2000 GC LE has the 3.8L. He says the 3.8L "feels comfortable" with cruise set at 83 MPH on I-15 between SLC and LA and still delivers between 24 and 24.5 MPG for the trip.
My 3.3L gets between 26.0 and 27.5 MPG on the same trip at the lower speed of 65 to 75 MPH. I think the 3.8L will deliver better fuel economy at speeds over 75 than will the 3.3L but the 3.3L will do better with stop and go or lower speeds.
I am assuming that our new van (assuming that we get a new one) will have at least comparable mileage numbers (once again, assuming that we can resist using the extra power). ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
One very pleasant surprise was the large amount of open space in New Jersey as you enter from the west at Easton. I had the erroneous idea that New Jersey was like Paterson-Newark-Bayonne everywhere.
I enjoy reading your comments. Carl
My BMW is just a conservative Green Metallic with a sand colored interior, no performance add-ons, no tinted glass and no radical stereo, just your basic run of the mill 328i 5-Speed. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
On the other hand, I have been known to do “Ground Reference Maneuvers” in the vicinity of the Northern State Parkway on a windy day, just not in my 328i. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I am sure this question has been asked before but I can't stayed up all night to find the answer. Does anyone know if the 3.5 liter engine is available soon? I've been doing a lot of reading of car magazines and some says that it is available this year but so far, I haven't heard anyone mentioned it. We are deciding to either get a Sedona, MPV (3.0 liter) or the Caravan. We have a '95 Villager right now but with our second child on the way, I think that a second sliding door will make our lives so much easier loading and unloading our kids.
Thanks so much for your help.
However, acording to a creditable salesman at our local Chrysler dealership, DCX will begin to offer this option on the 2003 model year minivans. This is because of the competition from the Odyssey which now has the most powerful engine that can be found in any minivan, a 240hp 3.5 VTEC V6 engine. Maybe this is just more talk and it won't come to pass, but it makes sense they would offer this engine soon to keep up with Honda.
From what I've heard, the 3.5 V6 will be slightly de-powered from 250hp to about 235hp when and if Chrysler does decide to use it in its minivans. Hope this helps!
-Adam
Ed
I continue to talk to my dealership about this, but can't get any projection of when a fix will be available.
--rolfe.
I have seen posts concerning it, but none that describes it.
Help please