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Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager

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    rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    We learned not to buy the first run anything when we bought our 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan LE in August of 1995. It would be best to get something later in the model year like we did with our 2000 Grand Caravan Sport. Don't bash Chrysler. You should do your HW more next time.
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    jamesboberjamesbober Member Posts: 7
    The additional invoice line items you are looking at are regionally imposed advertising fees. Every dealer belongs to a district and a region from what I understand. These fees are paid by the dealer no matter what and are lagit. Edmund's fine print talkes about advertising fees being above the prices they quote becasue they very by location. I have never understood why that do not get listed...

    I just bought a T&C LXi and paid $200 over invoice. That invoice, which the dealer gave me a copy of had similar lines on it. It is a cost to the dealer and not profit.

    PS: I LOVE THE T&C. It is sooooo quiet and smooth riding!!!!!!!
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    kkshinkkshin Member Posts: 13
    If you think I didn't do my homework, then you are dead wrong. I have been research about the minivan for almost 5 months before I made my choice. After numerous evaluations, I have decided to purchase 2001 Chrysler T&C and yet, it turned out to be lemon. At this point, I really don't know what to do. I really could use somebody's advice. Do anybody knows what to do at this situation?
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    dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    If you had done your homework as you said you would know that DC vans have been lemons since the beginning. Why would you think the new ones would be any better? Because they told you?
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    carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    Glad I paid attention to the many owners of DC minivans that had zero problems instead of the doom and gloom of CR and former DC owners who post in the Edmund's Town Hall. My 99 GC SE has had zero problems and runs perfectly.
    I disagree with dmathews3 statement that DC vans have been lemons. The statement would be correct if re-written: "DC has made a few vans that have been lemons...just like Honda and Toyota have made a few lemons".
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    kkshinkkshin Member Posts: 13
    First of all, when I was purchasing the vehicle, I didn't notice anything wrong untill after 3 days. If you also think I got the lemon because I didn't do my research, then again, you are wrong. I have purchased T&C because I thought I am owning safest minivan for my infant son after numerous evaluations. However, the vehicle turned out to be the lemon. What really makes me mad about it is that the services from the dealership and customer service from Chrysler are Suck! Thus far, there are no feedbacks on how they are going to solve the problem, but keeping my minivan in their garage for 4 weeks. I would like to advise that if you are thinking about the purchasing T&C for your next vehicle, please do your research. Personally, I would like to tell you, don't buy them!
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    rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    If you would have done your HW properly, you should have known best that first run models of ANY vehicle are always the worst. If you bought a DC minivan later in its production year lets say 02 or 03...you probably wouldn't be complaining since there are bugs that have been worked out. That's the reason why we bought a 2000 GCS instead of getting a brand new 2001. We don't have any of the problems our 1996 did. Have fun.
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    axle59axle59 Member Posts: 28
    After reading your complaints about the LFN I listened to mine T&C very carefully and do not hear anything other than normal engine sounds. I specifically listened at 2100 RPM mark as stated earlier and still heard nothing. I would say that you happened to pick up a lemon. If you are not happy with the service that you are getting from your local dealer perhaps you should try a different one. You should also contact the area manager. Thats what I had to do to finally get my hubcaps to stop squeeking. I'm sorry about your son and can understand how that upsets you but you don't need to bash on everyone who has purchased this particular vehicle. If all else fails call the factory directly and complain to them that nothing is getting done about your van.
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    kkshinkkshin Member Posts: 13
    To rbacsafra:
    Thanks for your response. As you have said, I should wait till their new model's bugs are worked out. However, I need the vehicle right away when I was expecting my baby. I don't want to drive around with my baby in small sedan especially on the highway where big SUVs are ruling on highways. Perhaps, next time, I will wait out...but, no more DC's vehicles.

    To axle59:
    Thanks for the response and lucky for you that you don't have lemon as I do. In addition, I am not bashing on everybody who have purchased T&C. As I have right to express my opinion, I am trying to caution those who are trying to purchase T&C from DC. Moreover, if anyone who is out there is experienced or dealing with this kind of problem, then I would like to know for guidance. I already talked with the customer service at Chrysler about the problem, but thus far, there is no concrete response and their behavior is same as the dealership that I purchased the vehicle from.
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    scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    I get sick whenever I ride in my friend's mini van due to low frequency noise and vibrations. In my friend's case, his low frequency noise and vibrations are caused by his after market sub woofer.
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    kkshinkkshin Member Posts: 13
    Thanks for the message. Perhaps, I can talk to the dealership about the cause. Are there any more about low frequency noise and vibration?
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    scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    http://www.automotive-review.com/grandcaravan.htm
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    tugboat2tugboat2 Member Posts: 7
    I am surprised that I haven't read a single post on this option. Is it available? Cost? Personal experience, anyone?
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    carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    And here is an excellent summary: "Odyssey's claim to fame is its folding third row that completely disapears into the floor."
    Concerning the Grand Caravan: "Let's start with the best news: the new Grand Caravan is the most refined vehicle Chrysler makes, heck it might be the most refined vehicle from a North American manufacturer. The 3.8 litre OHV V6 is smooth and quiet and returns decent fuel economy given the size of a Grand Caravan and the hard acceleration that the powerful motor encourages. It produces the most power of any minivan engine: a stout 215 hp and an amazing 245 lb-ft or torque under 4000 rpm."
    By comparison, the Ody 3.5L V6 has 205 HP and 217 lb-ft torque on the same regular, unleaded gasoline.
    Put the "Magic Seat" into the Grand Caravan and it would be the overwhelming favorite of all reviewers.
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    jamesboberjamesbober Member Posts: 7
    It is not released yet. All literature on the TC/GC says late availabilty, early 2001.
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    scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    http://www.cobizmag.com/nov/pages/wheels/wheels10_23_00.cfm
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    carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    Just read the review referenced in #367 by the informative scanner.
    It appears that the 2001 GC greatly impresses most reviewers (if they can get past that "Magic Seat" fetish). It will be interesting to see the review of the "Van with the Magic Seat" by this intelligent source
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    scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    Just won the AAA top minivan award
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    axle59axle59 Member Posts: 28
    After I washed my van the other day I noticed 4 dents in the rear hatch. They are located above the release handle and off to the right. There are two above the crease and two below it. They apear to come from the hatch release mechanism where they welded it to the tailgate. I took it to the dealer yesterday and pointed it out to him and he said that it was obvious that I hadn't hit anything and that they probally were from the hatch release. They are going to fix it but it's going to have to go to their body shop for a few days. Is anybody else noticing this on their 2k1 or any year for that matter.
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    aps5aps5 Member Posts: 43
    I have a week-old Town and Country Lxi AWD and I do hear the vibration/noise at 2100 rpm, however I believe it is a normal resonance for this engine and drivetrain. It is easy to cruise just above or below this rpm. I also think that since the van is so unbelievably quiet, any vibration which would be tolerable in another vehicle appears louder in the van.

    I do, however, notice a wind "whistle" at speeds over 65-70 which I think is above and beyond usual wind noise, which is also more obvious since the rest of the van is so quiet. I will be mentioning this "whistle" to the dealer.

    I just had the van in approx 6-8 inches of snow with excellent snow tires and it was excellent, in a steep up hill incline.

    Andy
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    aps5aps5 Member Posts: 43
    More on my new 2001 AWD Town and Country Lxi:

    I have no interest in the fold down rear seat that the reviewers are obsessing about. The split seat in the Lxi gives far greater flexibility, and it is nice to keep a seat yet slide long items under it - something you can't do in a folding bench.

    Andy
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    dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Before you post about something you know nothing about I would suggest you look at the magic seat in the Odyssey. Though I had never carried nothing under my magic seat I just went out and looked and there is about 6" of space between bottom of seat and floor, so I could haul say some 2x4's UNDER THE SEAT. BOY ISN'T THAT MAGIC!
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    jfz219jfz219 Member Posts: 63
    I recommend taking the cross bars of the roof rack off when not in use. The wind noise should disappear. Gently pry up the back of the plastic
    piece at the front of the rails. The cross bars will slide off the front end of the rails.
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    aps5aps5 Member Posts: 43
    It's the GM folding bench that has no space under it - that is the one I was referring to.

    Andy
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    dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    you said magic seat in your post, and there is only 1 MAGIC SEAT. Gm's are a joke, for that matter so are DC's
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    rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    maybe you are joking yourself with your Ody? LOL Your van ain't superior to any other van. Come on man. Be nice.
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    brians5brians5 Member Posts: 23
    rbacsafra...
    If you were speaking to dmathews3 when you said "come on man. Be nice." I must agree with you. This forum is supposed to be for helpful advice, not cutting, sarcastic, remarks meant to put others down.

    I enjoy reading pearls of wisdom from folks who have constructive advice to give others. I do not enjoy sharp-tongued repartee designed to demonstrate the writer's superiority to the rest of the world at the expense of someone looking for a solution.

    Kyu Shin, (kkshin) good luck with your problem, I hope the dealer finds the cause. I have not taken delivery of my van yet, but I will look for that problem when it gets here before I sign on the dotted line.

    -Brian
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    rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    Doesn't it sound silly when one says his minivan is superior than another? LOL We bought a minivan for practical purposes. If I wanted something superior, I would have stepped up to Lexus or Mercedes.
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    brians5brians5 Member Posts: 23
    Here here!
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    dosmandosman Member Posts: 5
    Well,

    after much searching, we bought our van.. a 01 TC limited awd. It is a great van, rides great, interior etc. Thanks to dmatthews and the board for the advice.

    Daron
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    dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I don't know what advise I gave you, cause I bought a Odyssey. But ifyou are happy, that is all that counts. After all you make the payments.:-)
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    geoduckgeoduck Member Posts: 52
    We have owned a 2001 T&C LXi AWD for two weeks now. Wonderful vehicle in all ways, except for that annoying rumbling at 2100 rpm.
    I wonder how prevalent it is, as we don't remember noticing it on a similar vehicle we had test drove earlier. Perhaps because the vehicle is so quiet, we tend to notice it. Perhaps if enough folks complain to Chrysler they may develop a fix.
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    dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    Well, I want to ask you guys if you think I got a good price on my new van. I'm only asking because I gypped myself when I got my 96 T&C LXi by not knowing my prices. Anyway, I bought my van at one of the Car Max auto super stores and there I didn't have to do any haggling at all. They have their set price and that is that. Anyway, on my Bright Silver T&C LTD with a list of $36,435, I was able to buy it(including the Chrysler rebate) for $31,438. It seems like it was a phenomenal deal so that's why I took it. It was great not having to haggle at all. I'm guessing it's good deal, because I'm paying nearly the same price as I did for my 96 LXi and the LTD has wonders more luxury inside and out. Granted I paid nearly full sticker for my 96 LXi which was $30,895, but to think after 5 years, I'm only paying $543 more on a vehicle 100x better, I feel I bought it at the right place. Plus, Car Max gave me $15,500 for the old van which was better than the $11,400 I was quoted at the general Chrysler dealer near me. Although, who knows? Maybe I could have gotten a better price on my new van some where else. Tell me what you think. Also, anyone in the market for a new van should look at the Car Max website for themselves. They have some of the 01 T&C LX's are going for as low as $24,000. It's only too bad the Car Max stores selling Chrysler products aren't found everywhere.
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    rolfe2rolfe2 Member Posts: 81
    I appreciate the posts from others on the resonance at about 2100 RPM. To reiterate, I hear a 'roar' or resonance at 2100 when climbing a hill or accelerating. (2001 GC ES AWD)

    I agree with the earlier post that if the vehicle weren't otherwise so quiet, this probably wouldn't be an issue. I also agree that it's probably 'normal', meaning all similar vehicles will exhibit the noise.

    But I note that the other posts were from other owners of AWD's (like me). So it seems that the noise is at least on T&C and GC AWDs.

    Could folks with non-AWDs let us know if they have the same situation?

    --rolfe.
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    axle59axle59 Member Posts: 28
    While I was at the dealer yesterday I noticed they finally had an accessories catalog for the 2k1 vans. It said that the RCO was available on 01JAN01 but it did not have a price. I asked if they had a price in the computer. They sure did $390!!! I don't think the wife wants one so bad now.
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    gcintendergcintender Member Posts: 36
    The main catalog has a photo of the navigation system, but no one knows anything about it. Does the new accessories brochure shed any more light on it? After hearing what the cargo organizer costs, I'm a little afraid to think what they'll charge for the nav!
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    axle59axle59 Member Posts: 28
    I looked at the nav system just out of curiousity and it was $2400 for the system and the cd's cost $150 a piece. If I remember right there are 6 cd's for the U.S. and you have to update them every year at $150 a piece again.
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    jamesboberjamesbober Member Posts: 7
    I picked up the Mopar flyer on the nav system. It comes with the CD for the area you live in. They hav gotten it down to 3 CD's now. The other two are a seperate purchase.
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    scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    Low frequency noise

    If it wasn't for stationwagon owners who suffer from MSRP (Magic Seat Rationalization Paranoia), perhaps someone would suggest removing/changing the airfilter temporarily to listen for changes through the 3.8L's new intake manifold.
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    scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    Is the PT system the same one that everyone's referring to?

    http://www.ptcruiserclub.org/accessory/accesscat4.htm
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    scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    http://www.8002292901.com/ProductTemplates/product.asp?SKU=21601#
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    kkshinkkshin Member Posts: 13
    Right before the Christmas holiday, I got my vehicle back from the dealership that I purchase the vehicle from for the low frequency noise and vibrations problem. The dealership thought they have found the solution and decided to change out the transmission of the vehicle to resolve the problem. However, IT DID NOT WORKED! The problem becomes worse than before. There are more noises are coming from the vehicle during accelerations, and vibrations are worse than before between 2000~2500 rpm. I have talked to the dealership about this, but, thus far, there is no response about what they are going to do about the problem. I have tried to make an appointment with their service department in order to give them another chance for the repair, but their general manager cancelled my appointment. Any suggestions?
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    dave210dave210 Member Posts: 242
    Maybe you've already done this, but have you driven the car with one of the mechanics in it? Maybe then they would be able to detect the problem better if you pointed it out. I'm sorry to hear though that your T&C has been trouble. My new T&C has been perfect. I hope you resolve the problem. Also you might want to check your state's lemon laws. It sounds like you are a candidate for a buy back depending on how long and how many times they've tried to fix the same problem. Good Luck.
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    rbacsafrarbacsafra Member Posts: 85
    If your general manager cancelled your appt, I suggest you write a formal letter adressed to your service and general Manager about your problem show that you sent copies to the DC zone representative and a copy to DC Customer Service in Michigan. They shouldn't give you that kind of treatment by the way I see it. You also have the option to see another authorized DC service dept for your warranty issues. I had to show a little bit of muscle power to my service advisor after they wouldn't listen to my problem with my cruise control. Now that I showed him the letter I sent to the GM, Zone rep and DC Cust. Service, they attend to my needs ASAP because they know that they are in very hot water. It's not a threat. It's called consumers rights. =)
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    aps5aps5 Member Posts: 43
    I will bring this noise to the attention to the service dept when I bring it in to fix defects below.

    The troubling thing about the low frequency vibration at 2100 rpm, is that the van seems to "hunt for" and cruise at this rpm when the cruise control is set at different speeds!

    It is as if the van wants to run at 2100 rpm.
    Perhaps there is a computer setting that can change the preferred rpm from 2100 to 2000 or 2200...

    New van sample defects:
    drivers door not lubed, makes noise
    side molding has gaps
    drivers seat heater not working
    wind whistle over 65 mph

    Otherwise:
    18" unplowed, up hill with excellent snow tires = no problem, as if no snow at all.
    Smoother and quieter than my previous mercedes E class awd.

    Andy
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    walterchanwalterchan Member Posts: 61
    Sound's like that your 2001 Town & Country is a lemon model. Sent your defect comments to the dealer and customer service and buy it back. If you don't, then more unusual problems will occur such as transmission failure within about 10,000 miles.
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    temmtemm Member Posts: 2
    We have put almost 3000 miles on our 01 T/C 2WD. The first time we took it on a long drive, everyone was a sleep (not me) so it was quiet. I started hearing a roar. Not sure what rpm, but it was about 70 mph. It wasn't constant, but it had a constant coming and going effect, with 1 to 2 second quiet pauses in between the roaring. I thought at first it was just a bad tire, but last night we were parked with the engine running and I could here the same kind of noise, only faint. You really have to listen hard to here it. Every time we go on long drives, I find myself listening for this roar. I haven't taken it in yet, because I really don't think anyone will be able to hear it on a test drive.

    I will check to see if it does this at 2100 rpm

    Otherwise, we really like the van.
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    axle59axle59 Member Posts: 28
    I hear the same noise on my my 2k1 LXi while in park. I believe it to be the electric fan kicking in but I have yet to verify this. Will do more research and let you know what I find.
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    rolfe2rolfe2 Member Posts: 81
    Well, it sounds like we've gotten everyone listening for noise(s) :-)

    This post is dealing specifically with the 2100 RPM resonance issue, not noise in park, from the cooling fan, wind whistles, tire noise, etc.

    I drove my 2001 GC ES AWD to my local dealership and test drove a 2001 GC ES FWD, and it DID NOT exhibit the 2100 RPM resonance problem.

    I immediately drove a new 2001 GC ES AWD and it DID exhibit the 2100 RPM resonance, although my subjective judgment is that it was not quite as severe as in my vehicle (with 3,600 miles on it).

    Both tests were over the same route, under the same condition -- climbing a grade and varying the engine RPM above and below 2100. The resonance is quite sharply tuned -- at 2000 and 2200 it drops off to an acceptable level.

    I should add that there is no doubt in my mind about the results -- having driven my vehicle for several months, I could tell immediately that the FWD was different. I'm less certain that my vehicle is worse than the test AWD. But if I'm correct about that, it means that some AWD owners will experience more annoyance than others.

    So, even though my sample size is small, I convinced myself that this is an AWD 'feature' and is not unique to my vehicle, which I suppose is good in terms of expecting a fix from DC. The bad news (for me at least), is that only AWD owners are affected, so it won't get the same attention as otherwise.

    I will be working with my dealer on a resolution, but realistically I don't expect anything to be done until and unless DC publishes a technical service bulletin, which I don't expect until and unless enough owners complain.

    --rolfe.
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    aps5aps5 Member Posts: 43
    Thanks, Rolfe for the research on the 2100 resonance. It will take a bunch of us awd owners to address it. I was wrong above - it is in fact easy to set the cruise control just above or just below the 2100 mark for silent cruising.

    I wonder if it is just a matter of tightening a loose nut. If anyone has a fix, let us know!

    Andy
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