Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager

gcintender · July 2000

Depends on which model you're going after - the Limited will be delayed production (possibly into September); the LX & LXi go into production next week, along with all the Grand Caravan variations.

You're correct about the plants - Windsor and St. Louis split the vans, with St. Louis handling the short wheelbase models.

dwg · July 2000

Thanks for the info.

dwg

caracciolo · August 2000

HAS ANYONE SEEN PRICE CODES FOR THE 2001 CARAVAN? MY LOCAL DEALER SAYS THAT HE WILL SELL ME ONE FOR $3OO OVER DEALER INVOICE. WHAT I WANT IS A 2001 GRAND CARAVAN ES W/ THE 3.8L AUTOSTICK, INFERNO RED TINTED PEARL COAT, POWER LIFTGATE, SECURITY SYSTEM, AND TOW PACKAGE. HE QUOTED ME $30,000 EVEN FOR THIS. I WASN'T AT THE DEALERSHIP WHEN HE MADE THE QUOTE, SO I DIDN'T SEE HIS CODES TO KNOW WHETHER THIS IS $300 OVER INVOICE.

kpost2 · August 2000

Anyone have any info on the timing of the 2001 T&C LMT with all-wheel drive. I called 5 different dealers in my area and got answers ranging from end of september to mid-october to november. My old car is on its last legs and I hate to put more money into it while I wait... Any info would be appreciated.

Kelly

gcintender · August 2000

I just happened to stop into a Chrysler dealer today to inquire about the T & C, and interrupted the sales manager as he was making out his first orders for these vans. He genuinely seemed to know not much, but I inferred that the timing depends on how you intend to buy - order or from dealer stock. If you are ordering now (and by now, I mean the next day or two), there's some possibility you can have the car shortly after Labor Day. Waiting for dealer stock will take longer, and the end of September seems about right.

The model you buy has some bearing on this as well, since I believe the AWDs will trail the others by several weeks. Initial production concentrates on models that will form the bulk of a dealer's sales, and since the AWD had a production run of about 5% of the total in 2000, they naturally have a lower priority.

As far as price goes, the delaers are just making educated guesses at this point. In the example above (very good choices, by he way!) $300 over invoice seems about right (that's what I intend to shoot for myself), but I suspect the $30,000 figure may be $200.00 to $300.00 too high.

Good luck to all the DC prospects, and I hope I've been of some help!

jmcstrav · August 2000

In case you haven't seen it, check out dodge's site for the movie presentation of the new caravan and specs.

Too bad the 3.4 ltr is not available. Does anyone have an idea when it might be?

grath · August 2000

We know the Limited for 2001 will be available with the more powerful 3.5L from the 300M.Does anyone know when that option will be put into production?

walterchan · August 2000

Just saw in the 2001 Caravan website that the 2001 Dodge Caravan will offer three different types of engine. The 3.0L, 3.3L, and 3.8L V6 engine are all magnum engines that gives extra power and performance.

There will be only three trim levels available in the 2001 Dodge Caravan. SE, Sport, and ES are the only three trim levels starting in under $20,000 through under $35,000.

All of these are final answer on the info about the 2001 Dodge Caravan.

gcintender · August 2000

...I think Walter has misread something on the site - the 3.0L has been dropped for 2001. The three available engines are the 2.4L Four (on the SWB only), the 3.3L, and the 3.8L V-6s. There's still hope for the 3.5L in the Grand Caravan, but it'll be at least mid-model year at the earliest til it's available.

And that's my final answer!

maxima · August 2000

if they keep giving out rebates will they still make money?

indydriver · August 2000

....DC's pricing strategies are great. You know you should never pay over invoice for any of their vehicles. I bought my 2000 DCS in June at invoice less the $2K rebate, which was a good deal then and a good deal now. Am I upset I didn't get the $3K available now? No! I needed the vehicle in June, so I bought it, even though it was obvious that incentives would get better later in the year. You will NOT get a better deal at Honda.

scanner · August 2000

Carleton,

DC's pricing method is the most common way to set pricing because it allows manufacturers to adjust pricing for current market conditions.

The way Honda sets its pricing does nothing more than fool people into thinking their vehicles have better resale value and adds to the unscrupulous dealer practices for which Honda has become infamous.

Even though it's tough to compare prices of two "similarly" equipped products that have a 4-5 year design cycle and which were designed in different years, I will give it a try. ;-)

2000 Honda Odyssey current expected selling price:
LX $23,400 (MSRP)
EX $26,000 (MSRP)

2001 Grand Caravan current expected selling price:
Sport $22,150 (Invoice +$300)
ES $26,500 (Invoice +$300)

Can you imagine the prices Chrysler could command for their minivans if they put a choke hold on supply like Honda? There's no way in the world people would have to pay MSRP for a Odyssey if Honda produced as many minivans as Chrysler.

brianinoh · August 2000

After your marketing class, did you take one on economics? Maybe you skipped the chapter on the effect of substitutes in the marketplace on any seller's ability to control price.

As for pricing, all makers have the ability to adjust pricing for market conditions. They simply offer rebates/incentives to dealers. And its pretty easy for dealers to adjust too to changing market. Make/model not selling as well as last month, maybe we should accept offers that are $500 lower than we did last month. Still not selling well? Maybe go $1000 lower.

Different makes have different pricing strategies. Some set MSRP high and then discount/rebate to lower selling price. As a matter of marketing, many buyers feel like they got a good deal (just like people who go to jewelry stores and buy at 75% off prices that were 2-4 times inflated). Other makers set MSRP a lot closer to what the selling price is expected to be.

As for what "fools" Honda owners into thinking their vehicles will have higher resale value, I believe that is called history.

scanner · August 2000

Brianinoh,

Yes, apparently Honda "seller's" have the ability to "control" Honda's price, they controlled Mark Roberts invoice pricing of the Honda Odyssey right back up to MSRP. ;-)

What I said and meant was the "manufacturer" meaning Chrysler Corp etc not the seller/dealer/middleman has sole ability to "adjust" pricing for market conditions. A seller/dealer/middleman doesn't have much ability to adjust price because a seller/dealer/middleman will seldom if ever sell a vehicle for less than they paid the manufacturer, and most sellers/dealers/middlemen are satisfied with receiving no more than their holdback plus something between $0-$500 over invoice.

BTW, How about publishing some actual numbers from those history books which show Honda's have better resale value.

tugboat2 · August 2000

Most of the major rental car companies are owned by the auto manufacturers. I suspect that the choice of which van a rental car companies offers has more to do with excess inventory of the manufacturer than depreciation.

scanner · August 2000

I'm thinking about buying one just so that we can have something to talk about that actually pertains to 2001 DC minivans. ;-)

I'm also thinking about getting one just so that I can drive around town with the new high beams on to blind other drivers out of spite. ;-)

-----

Here's another question that has nothing to do with 2001 DC minivans. Has anyone ever found themselves driving along in a caravan of Caravans?
The other day I found myself in the #4 position in a line of 5 Chrysler minivans. Can anyone top the record? ;-)

rbacsafra · August 2000

Actually just last week on the I-15 South on the way to San Diego, there were 6. Four NS models ranging from 96-00 DGC and PGV (ours is a 00 GCS), One 94-95 GC and one older 88-90 Voyager. Talk about a Chrysler Minivan Caravan!

I've noticed the Mexican tourists who drive their late model Chrysler Minivan up from Mexico is really a Chrysler Voyager, but with Dodge Grand Caravan LE grill, wheels and gray bodyside cladding!!! Since summer tourism is up here in Southern Cali, I've seen quite a few of these vans. Pretty weird to see a Caravan LE but with Chrysler Voyager emblems.

Another weird one i've seen recently was a NEW 2-door Dodge Ram CHARGER!!!! It also had mexican plates. If you go visit the Chrysler Mexico site, you can see this pretty odd but cool looking vehicle.

maxima · August 2000

I've seen at least 10 montana/trans sport entering the highway togehter one behind another
they are from 97 to now generation

brianinoh · August 2000

scanner--First you say that dealers don't have the ability to control pricing then you reference Mark Roberts and say they do. Which is it?

In #88, you praise the DC pricing policy because it allows DC to adjust pricing for market conditions. But how do they do that? With dealer incentives/rebates. How is that any different than what any other maker can do? That same model works for sales above and below invoice (with rebates/incentives).

Question: If DC dealers could sell the DC minivans for more than the invoice less whatever the current rebates/incentive is, would they?

carelton--The info you seek regarding resale value is very difficult to obtain. How will the pricing guides get the info as to how much people paid for the various makes/models when new? For different people at different times in different locations, the pricing will differ.

Another reason why the rental car agencies typically stock domestics is that there still are a great number of people out there who will never, ever drive a "foreign" car (despite the fact that many domestics are not built in US and many "foreign" makes are). Certainly, in NE Ohio (strong Ford country) that is very true.

maxima · August 2000

honda odysseys left foot peddal is for people with size 5 feet only half of your feet fits inside the pad

brianinoh · August 2000

I think its a little of both....

But, your #88 started things off:

"DC's pricing method is the most common way to set
pricing because it allows manufacturers to adjust
pricing for current market conditions.

The way Honda sets its pricing does nothing more
than fool people into thinking their vehicles have
better resale value and adds to the unscrupulous
dealer practices for which Honda has become
infamous."

My point is simply that both Honda and DC have the ability to adjust pricing for current market conditions.

scanner · August 2000

Brian,

I never said DC was the only manufacturer that has the ability to adjust pricing. My point was Honda "dealers" can and do adjust Honda's pricing, but they adjust it in the WRONG direction.

brianinoh · August 2000

First, its the market that adjusts prices. Dealers are not free to charge whatever they want. Other dealers of the same make and dealers of other makes selling substitutes (even if not perfect substitutes) limit the ability of any given dealer to influence pricing.

DC dealers are in business to make a profit. Assuming that currently, DC dealers are selling the DC minivans for invoice less a $1000 factory rebate. If they could sell the vans for invoice less $500, wouldn't they? Wouldn't you?

Second, many of the posts that I have seen from folks buying Accords and Civics indicate that they have paid 2-3% above invoice. Not very different from other makes/models.

Third, Odyssey and S2000 are currently selling for more than that. I think the S2000 is simply a unique vehicle (similar to the Miata several years ago) and is more of a "gotta have" type car. Seems to me that when I hear ads for Dodge on the local radio for the current rebates/special financing, the Viper is excepted. And its my understanding that the PT Cruiser is not selling for invoice less $1000 or even invoice. Are DC dealers taking DC's pricing on Viper and adjusting it in the wrong direction? I don't think so. They are just responding to the market.

Now look at the Odyssey. If you compare the invoice price and MSRP for the 1998 (pre-redesign) and the redesigned 1999 Odyssey, there was almost no change (if any). My memory tells me it was less than $150 jump for 1999 in invoice and MSRP stayed the same. Yet, if you compare a 1998 Odyssey EX to a 1999 Odyssey EX for example, you get a lot more vehicle: V-6 engine, dual power sliders, front/rear a/c, a lot more room, etc for the same MSRP and virtually the same invoice. I believe that the 1998 Odysseys were selling at prices similar to the Accords and Civics (about 2-3% over invoice). Honda could have raised the invoice and MSRP on the 1999 (reflecting fact that it was selling more vehicle) and then sold them for a small percentage over invoice and a large discount under MSRP. The selling price probably would have been the same. Market forces determine the selling price. Not dealers or makers for that matter acting totally independently.

To me, the Odyssey is competitively priced at MSRP. It it wasn't people would not be waiting to get one. They would buy a DC van, Sienna, Windstar, etc. instead. Others (a majority of van buyers) decide something else better suits their needs (many times, I am sure price is a factor). But that price should be the actual $$ spent (including costs of financing) not what labels are put on that price.

brianinoh · August 2000

GC Sport provides more value to you. Odyssey LX provides more value to someone else. For others, its the Windstar, Sienna or one of GM trio. Why is that so hard to understand?

And thanks for pointing out to me that I need to take my 1999 Odyssey EX to the dealer to get those problem power sliding doors installed. You see, ours have worked perfectly for 19 months and counting. I will make sure and tell the other real people that I know who also have not had problems with their power sliders that a trip to the dealer is required to have that taken care of. Thanks again.

Karen_S · August 2000

...the only vehicles that should be discussed in this topic are those listed in the title.

KarenS
Vans host

brianinoh · August 2000

Seems to me that there has been a significant change in many of the Edmunds threads since I first started reading them almost 2 years ago. These threads used to be about people sharing ideas and experiences. Now Edmunds seems to have become very political. Many people seem to be here with their own adgenda that they seek to advance. "Forget exchanging info, because I want people to see that I am right...." Statements that aren't based on facts get repeated so much that they become fact. And it isn't unique or limited to people interested in any make of van.

Why do I read this DC thread? Because I have seen a lot of info in the media about DC's 2001 redesign. I am curious to see what features the new DC vans will have if nothing else than those features will probably be on the next minivan I buy. I don't see that as "trolling."

Why do I post in this thread? Invariably, people make comparisons to different makes in any thread, even those that are supposedly limited to one make/model (and Karen, I think you will have a very difficult time enforcing such a restrictive policy as you set forth in #120). Sometimes, people will misrepresent a feature/fact about another van or will make a statement that doesn't make sense to me. I often times will indicate the problem with the post. I have done that with many different vans (although certainly, I have done it more with the Odyssey because I have one). Why should people make a decision based on facts that may not be accurate? Certain issues don't need to be addressed because people reading these threads (and I think a person who is reading only ONE thread is fairly rare) can discern the issue themselves. To me, that is not trolling either.

Karen_S · August 2000

I am very well aware that discussions go off topic. This is normal and expected in an online community. And, for the most part, I will not say anything because usually within a few posts the discussion returns to the topic. This time, however, it seemed to be spiraling into another ugly confrontation.

It has been requested of me many, many times to "remove" a participant from a topic because their views differ from the others. As always, lively debate is what makes a discussion interesting, and no, it doesn't matter if they are biased and have flawed information, their opinions/comments are still welcome. BUT when it gets personal and/or accusatory, then it's time to step back and re-evaluate the topic. Face it, no matter how you try to convert them, there will always be someone who disagrees with you. ;-)

KarenS
Vans host

grath · August 2000

Has anyone heard when the 2001 T&C Limited with the 3.5 engine will be available?

clarkerik · August 2000

There is some additional invoice and package information on the website driveoff.com, just ask for a quotation for a 2001 caravan

indydriver · August 2000

waiting for the 14th oil change on my 300M...Spotted a beautiful 2001 Dodge Grand Sport in Champaign. Syling updates gave the overall impression of a subtle attractiveness. Wait, what's this? AArrrggghhhh!!! A gray plastic rub strip down the entire beltline of the otherwise beautiful monochrome champaign paint! DC just couldn't resist putting some ugly gray plastic on their somewhere.

scanner · August 2000

I saw a new 2001 AWD T&C Limited sitting on my local Chrysler dealer's lot yesterday. I was able to stop and get a slightly better look just before they drove it away for final preping. It was basically the same one I had saw at the local auto show, but this one was Patriot Blue instead of Bright Silver. The first thing you'll notice on the exterior is the how huge the entire front end looks when compared to the previous model, more sport-ute like in my opinion. I also noticed the brake components (calipers and 4-wheel disc) looked quite different/larger. The front disc were vented, and the rear disc looked more complex. The tires were 215/65R 16" Michelin MX4's (Hurrah! No crap-a-stones). The van didn't seem to sit any higher off of the ground for and AWD model. Didn't get to try them, but the window sticker listed power hatch, power doors, and side airbags. The interior remains similar, but noticeably different, especially the seats. The gauges had the 300M treatment.

--------------------------------------

Indydriver,

I'd bet you saw a base Sport. I have yet to see a 2001 Caravan or Voyager. It's funny how the long wheelbase Sport has come to replace the Base and SE models when the Sport originally started out as a special SE model with special trim. You can tell which model is DC's most popular.

krallen · August 2000

Just drove 2001 t + c LXI
Very smooth and powerful
List price avout 32,OOO with all the goodies
Power doors worked very nicely. Also open manually with to added effort.
Had LX also on lot for 28000 +

gcintender · August 2000

Had my first hands-on with a 2001 Grand Caravan Sport today - VERY nice, although I must admit I'm a bit biased.

I agree with most of the posts above, except that I like the 2001 interior better than the 2000. I certainlt\y concur with Scanner that the plastic on the side is pretty ugly - thankfully, the ES has a body-color with chrome insert strip. Much better!

I went to two dealers in the area - the first had three Sports on the lot, two base and on AWD, surprisingly. The sales guy gave me the key and left me on my own, saying, "They're way in the back of the lot. We've got too many 2000s to sell first!"

I was pleasantly surprised pricewise - the salesguy was quick to whip out an invoice for the AWD, before I had even mentioned price and said they'd do "$200-$300 over". When I mentioned that an Autovantage dealer I had spoken to in the Spring about 2000s offered $100 over, he was quick to match.

The second dealer had two Sports on his lot, which I didn't bother seeing since I want an ES, and I had satisfied my basic curiosity at dealer #1. This dealer claimed to be able to go to invoice on an order, though his manner made me a bit sceptical. He was a mite perturbed that I had gotten the ES invoice price off the internet. "How can you have that price when I don't?", quoth the sales maven. Was he planning on some creative invoice padding?

I'll try to get to another couple of dealers tomorrow.

grath · August 2000

I need a 2001 Limited immediately in New Jersey.Anyone knoww where i can get one?

rbacsafra · September 2000

Have you guys seen the head to head comparo of the 2001 ES vs 00 Oddysey in the latest Motor Trend??? They favored the Oddysey over the new Caravan. I personally prefer the exterior styling of our 00 GCS over a new 2001. So far on our trip, I have only seen the cheaper vans a GC and a T&C with the ugly gray side strips on the road and both were that white or eggshell looking white. Anyways, the better looking one would be an ES or an LXi with all painted everything and chrome accents. On our way out of Vero Beach on SR 60 going towards the Turnpike, I spotted 2 truckloads of the new Chrysler and Dodge minivans and colors. I didn't get a good look at them. Another weird spotting today here in San Antonio was a group of 3 Chrysler minivans that were extrememly dirty but with Michigan "Manufacturer Plates." The drivers stopped in the gas station I was at. I noticed that 2 of these three vans had the European spec headlamps with clear corners and the Red/Amber/White taillights. Each of these vans did have some weird tailpipe that was circular and hung out further than a stock one. All these vans had like modified gas tanks with aluminum flashing around the gas tank opening. It seemed pretty odd to see these very very dirty vans driving around in a convoy. I guess they were field testing these 3 vans around the varieties of climates here in Texas.

vttom · September 2000

Where did you get the invoice pricing on the 2001 Caravan? Complete? I want to order a 2001 but need the invoice pricing and my dealer(s)does not have it. Please help. Thank you.

vcvmt · September 2000

Hello Everyone, I am a newcomer to Town Hall. I have learned many things about 01's from this topic and thank you all for the same.

Planning to replace our 98 GC Sport with 01 Sport or ES, so dropped by a local dealer here in Toronto, Canada at the new vans. Overall, they seemed nicer, but our whole family didn't like the new seating arrangements, particularly 50/50 spilt rear on ES. We have the middle and rear benches on our 98 and prefer that even to quad-command buckets.

Does anyonone know when ordering 01 quick order packages 28K (Sport) or 29S (ES), if we could get middle and rear benches instead of the included buckets and 50/50's?

hersbird · September 2000

The 2001 does not look as good as the 1996-2000 model. This is the first time so far DC has updated the styling and failed to improve the looks. I checked out a 2001 T&C limited today and while all the new features were very nice, side by side to a 2000 limited it is just plainer looking (not to mention $6000 more counting rebates). Saw the new stratus R/T there too, now there's and improvement!

grath · September 2000

I am looking for a 2001T&C Limited here in New Jersey.Where did you see one, hersbird ?Thanks

hersbird · September 2000

in Missoula, MT. Hey at least no sales tax here! The sticker was about $35000 but they supposedly sell all vans at $500 over invoice (before rebates), that may have changed with the 2001. It didn't appear they were letting people test drive it as it had 10 miles on it and was in the showroom. It was silver with grey leather interior.

kpost2 · September 2000

This weekend I finally saw the new 2001s (been waiting months). At first they said I couldn't drive it (it wasn't prepped at all yet) -- but I eventually got to. It was nice -- smooth, quiet, good pick up. I liked the car a lot.

But, one of the things I was really waiting for was the split rear bench -- I really liked the Sienna's and the flexibility it offers (taking out just one seat or having both kids sit on one side of the van in different rows -- freeing a whole side for long cargo like lumber). BUT, I really didn't like the split that much. The center seat in the 3rd row was very uncomfortable -- could feel the "hinges" right in your back (can't remember if sienna's was the same or not). But I won't often carry 7 passengers so still debating the split. I was suprised that all the Limiteds (2) my dealer had came with a solid bench instead of the split. The dealer didn't know if it could be ordered the other way (Does anyone know that? can you get split rear OR solid bench in a limited??). I kind of liked the looks of the solid better -- and it has a fold down armrest that the split bench doesn't have. Not sure I have a choice on the limited or not -- but I can't decide.

My dealer said AWD would still be 4-6 wks. But I see somepeople online saying they saw AWDs already -- what part of the country? Or does it depend on when the dealer placed the order? He had no idea of the pricing (but I pulled out the invoice costs I got off the internet). He said he'd sell for $500 over -- but since he still didn't have official pricing I left it unordered. I'm sure I could get him down from the $500 too.

He also didn't have a list of options or anything yet -- does anyone know what options there are on a limited? I know the 4 cd changer. Don't know if any others.

Thanks

Kelly

gcintender · September 2000

I can help with a couple of your questions.

Last Monday I visited a couple of Dodge dealers and one had an AWD Sport on the lot. Location shouldn't matter at all, but I'm in the Philadelphia area. What matters more is that Chrysler dealers don't sell many AWDs. Many don't order any at all, so if you want one I think you'll probably have to order it.

As far as price goes, your dealer has the invoices for the cars on his lot, but may not have complete info for the whole line. Ask him to show you the invoice (or better yet, copy it). I, too, think you'll be able to beat the $500.00 over you were quoted. One of the Dodge dealers claimed to be able to go to straight invoice, though that may be reaching a bit.

And the dealer does know the options, and has for some time. Ask him to show you the "Customer Preferred Code Guide".

hersbird · September 2000

Has a split rear, I didn't think of trying it out but the other day the usefulness of it can into play when my brother brought a long file cabinet home in his 97 voyager, while he had quad seating and the rear seat out, he had his 2 kids with him and couldn't put 1 of the quad seats behind the other to make the cabinet fit. He ended up letting one child ride in front and putting the seat extra seat in back. The split rear seat would have solved the problem simply (or they could just make it possible for the Quad seats to latch into the rear space, are you listening DC?)

jmcstrav · September 2000

I have been in several Dodge's & Limited's now trying to decide wich one.

The inside of the Limited is very nice (gauges & seats in particular. However, I like the looks of the dodge much better. The clading and wheels of the limited, I don't like.

About the rear seats. I have been told you can fit the captains in the third row with these new seats - Haven't seen it done but was told. It looks possible!

Also told that, at least for now, that the splits in the 3rd are only available with the child booster seat option in the second row. I hope this changes.

rbacsafra · September 2000

Keep in mind that the captains chairs have armrests on both sides of each chair. There is no clearance since the built in armrest/storage takes up the spacing.

Karen_S · September 2000

First Drive: 2001 Chrysler Minivans

Anyone care to comment?

KarenS
Vans host

emale · September 2000

the edmunds road test was much more complimentary of the chrysler minis and also contradictory to the road test performed by the latest issue of motortrend. i can't wait to see what the other car "authorities" have to say about the van...!

rolfe2 · September 2000

Apparently, the 2001 ES AWD has an option that includes "touring suspension" (QOP 29S?). Does anyone know how that differs from the standard suspension or whether it is compatible with the "load leveling and height control" suspension provided with the trailer tow group?

(The salesman I talked to said he didn't know; the answer of the Fleet Manager HE asked started with, "I'd guess it's probably ..." Needless to say, I preferred the saleman's answer :-)

rolfe2 · September 2000

I saw a 2001 Town and Country on a lot the other day. I had to check out the power sliding doors (both sides) and the power liftgate. Worked pretty good at first.

Then I asked the liftgate to close one more time. It closed about 1/3 of the way, then opened all the way and repeated over and over. A technician on break walked by and suggested some plastic bags in the rear might be blocking the beam. I kind of doubted it, but he moved them and the liftgate closed.

I then hit the open button for the liftgate one more time and it and the two side doors began to cycle open/closed randomly and not in sync. We just stood back and watched for a while.

The tech said he'd like to try to fix it, but had to get back to work. So he hit the "off" switch for the power controls. Predictably, it did no good -- the doors continued to cycle and he went back to work. I finally got a little self-conscious and starting hitting the open/close switches and it all settled down.

Might be a few kinks to work out... Either that, or I somehow got it into "demo" mode ;-)

emale · September 2000

i'm sure that's a true story!! there are always plastic bags sitting in the back of new minivans...and techs will ignore a minivan that has electric doors going berserk...

Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager

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