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Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager

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Comments

  • mandm5mandm5 Member Posts: 3
    Purchased a T&C EX model this week. The three Chrysler dealers in my area each received delivery of one EX this past weekend. After considering a T&C LX w/ a 25K convenience package, the EX was too good to pass up. Even without any incentives and rebates, I still felt the EX was more for the money with the additional Power liftgate, 3.8L engine, alumunim wheels, Michelin touring tires, traction control, center console, and split 50/50 rear bench seat. All 3 dealers agreed to sell the vehicle at invoice; it was the dealer that finally knocked a few extra hundred dollars off the price that made the sale -- otd $26,043. Why would we pay $28K otd for the LX with less options? Haven't had it long enough give a satisfaction rating, by the way, what's up with these dealer ratings that the salesman keeps groveling for, says he needs 100%. If they would just do their job, they wouldn't have to beg!
  • keygokeygo Member Posts: 38
    I just ordered a Town and Country LXi AWD today. I have never been able to drive one. I read with interest the posting about the vibrations. How bad are they? Does the vibration disappear? Is the drive different than the FWD?
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Member Posts: 81
    How bad are the AWD "vibrations"? If you're talking about the resonance at 2100 rpm -- it depends on your sensitivity. In my case, I consider it an annoyance, but not so bad that I regret my purchase decision.

    Another owner with whom I communicate finds it so unacceptable that he is getting rid of the vehicle.

    That's why I'm recommending (for those able) that you test drive one.

    Does it "disappear?" Nope. In fact, at 8500 miles I'm now hearing a secondary noise at the same rpm. This secondary noise I'd call a rattle -- it sounds a bit like engine ping, but it seems more like something that's gotten loose in the engine compartment, probably due to the vibration.

    --rolfe.
  • fly6869fly6869 Member Posts: 17
    I want an EX T&C with side air bags but cannot locate one. Have they started shipping them or are they waiting for some odd reason? Also want Inferno red color. Any help??
  • keygokeygo Member Posts: 38
    Thanks for the information. I have been unable to find an AWD to test drive. I hate the thought of spending $30,000 without a test drive but...

    Is this vibration/resonance at 2100 rpm problem in all the AWD?

    Thanks
  • mandm5mandm5 Member Posts: 3
    Of the 3 EX's that I drove before I made my purchase, none had the side air bag. Since they don't protect the head anyway, we decided it was an option we could live without. For some reason, most of the dealers are getting EX's in the patriot blue color, although one said he was expecting delivery of an inferno red unit next. BTW, inferno red is an extra $200 (ret) option and the side airbag is $390 (ret) -- the only two options available.
  • lhasa_apsolhasa_apso Member Posts: 3
    I called 5 dealers in the tri-state area and only one had an EX which I saw on Thursday (in Patriot Blue) and a side air bag.

    It had a nice cloth interior -- I could easily live without the leather!

    I was really hoping the climate control would be auto-temp, but it wasn't -- although it was still 3 zone.

    Dealer wanted $26,800 and said this was about $500 over invoice and plus an advertising fee (I think invoice is $25, 797 with side air bags and destination).

    I read on this board a post about speculation that the prices on the limited and Lxi would have to be adjusted when the EX showed up on the lots.

    I figure there is a difference of about $2700 (after rebate) between an EX and a non-loaded Lxi. With leather, an extra power door, home-link, and auto-climate, its a little bit of a stretch but not that munch

    A Limited is about $4500 more and I think there are people who would pay for that.

    Still, we can always hope for more rebates.
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Member Posts: 81
    >> Is this vibration/resonance at 2100 rpm problem in all the AWD?

    Yes. I say that based on driving several new ones, communicating by email with other owners who have also test driven several, and talking with my dealership.

    I did understand from your first post that you were unable to test-drive one. I'd suggest that you consider doing a thorough eval after yours comes in and before you make a final commitment.

    As described earlier, find a hill (doesn't have to be steep, just long). Accelerate and hold 2100 rpm and listen/feel. This will be at 30-35 mph. Quickly modulate the pedal slightly to hear the noise come and go. It's a low-frequency droning sound.

    You might have someone listen from the 2nd row seat -- I've heard, but can't confirm, that the noise may be more pronounced there.

    Also notice that at 2000 and below you won't hear any noise; above 2100 it tapers off more gradually. Then repeat the same tests on a FWD if you want to hear the contrast -- you won't hear the same thing.

    --rolfe.
  • dcrudolph2dcrudolph2 Member Posts: 1
    The list is around $29,000, and the invoice is about 26,500. But most dealers around here have $5500-6K off list, bringing the price to below "invoice." Should I still be able to negotiate lower, and if so, how much room is left?
  • keygokeygo Member Posts: 38
    I was able to find an AWD Town and Country to test drive. I wasn't able to notice anything. Unfortunately, I didn't get Rolfe's excellent advice until I got home. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that is the case with the vehicle I ordered. The deal said he wasn't had any of his customers complain of the vibration at 2100 rpm (I know, famous last words... "I know nothing").

    The van I drove was the Town and Country Limited. It was beautiful. I can only hope that I like the LXi nearly as much.
  • fly6869fly6869 Member Posts: 17
    Purchased Inferno red Ex {no side air bags} yesterday and love it. Final price was $26801 out the door. Used friends and family coupon and got $400 recent graduate discount. Numerous dealers around sw Ohio had EX's. One had Inferno red with side air bags but wouldn't except coupon. Took businesss else where. I'm now wondering if drivers side sliding door can be made automatic {lights flash when button for that door is pressed on key fob} and if overhead computer can have more options added.
  • howie99mnhowie99mn Member Posts: 20
    I got a t&c lx with casette/cd 6 speakers, h package, power seats for 25.4k out the door.

    When I went to pick up it had a paint imperfection. Dealer said that all new chrysler on the lot would also have one?

    Does any know if this is true? HE said that he would look for another perfect car without paint problem?
  • mnoutdoorsmnoutdoors Member Posts: 19
    One other comment to add to Rolfe's information above is that the 'harshness' and volume of the resonance seem to be temperature dependent. In climates where the high temperatures are routinely in the 20's or lower, you may find the noise to be particularly loud. After you drive the van for approximately 30 miles (or 30-45 minutes continually), some of the harshness will diminish even with cold ambient temps, however, it never goes away.

    Now that spring in MN is approaching with daily highs in the 30-38 degree range, the harsh resonant characteristic of my van is somewhat reduced. However since early January until this past week, I have been living with a resonant drone (especially at 65-68 MPH) that few would find acceptable for a luxury minivan.

    Personally, I like the T&C minivans. I have driven many AWDs to try and find one without this characteristic. I haven't been successful. Per my numerous discussions with Chrysler, all the AWDs currently do this. My intent is merely to let potential AWD owners know what they may be getting into. If you live in a climate with sustained cold winter temperatures, please be aware that the noise you hear in the warmth of spring, may become more pronounced next winter.

    Of course, both the minivans and an individual's personal tolerance, vary greatly. I post this only for awareness to help others avoid possible future 'surprises'.
  • dleung1dleung1 Member Posts: 10
    Are all regions affected by this fee ?
  • familyoffivefamilyoffive Member Posts: 2
    Seriously thinking about a 2001 T&C Limited. Would like the AWD, but these postings raise a concern regarding the 2100 RPM issue. Local dealer said it was due to a wrong tire issue that has been resolved by switching to different factory tires, but I still see active postings on this issue. I'm in NC, so we don't get the cold temps very often. Can anybody comment on the "wrong tires" in any way correcting or lessening this condition?
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Member Posts: 81
    First of all, I wholeheartedly concur with mnoutdoors' recent post.

    Regarding the effect of tires -- I will give you two reasons why I don't believe tires are an issue. First, the resonance is present with both stock Michelin MX4 tires and Michelin Arctic Alpin snow tires on my vehicle. The only difference is that at 68 or 70 mph (equivalent to 2100 rpm in overdrive), the somewhat higher tire noise of the Alpins tends to mask the resonance. At other speeds (meaning lower gears), the 2100 rpm resonance sounds the same on both sets of tires.

    Second, the resonance is independent of speed (road speed and therefore tire rotational speed). It is only a function of rpm (provided you are putting a load on the engine, as in climbing an incline or accelerating).

    Regarding what your dealer told you, if it were a tire issue that is already solved, I don't' think that District Sales Managers would still be telling folks that Engineering is still investigating with no projected resolution in sight.

    --rolfe.
  • geoduckgeoduck Member Posts: 52
    Wrong factory tires, huh? That's a good 'un --if only the problem were that easy. Read all of our posts re: the issue; the dealer is slicing you baloney.
    But we do love our AWD and don't find the noise very objectionable. . .it still is a problem though.
  • mojo66mojo66 Member Posts: 83
    Reading in the March 19 edition of AutoWeek that DC has officially put the 230hp, 3.5L motor for 2001 Chyrsler minivans 'under review' and will not offer it this spring as promised, which I think is Daimler's way of telling us "it's cancelled." With the financial state of the company being what it is right now it apparently can't justify the extra costs involved to offer the 3.5L option.
  • mnoutdoorsmnoutdoors Member Posts: 19
    I've driven AWD T&Cs with both 15" Goodyear tires and 16" Michelin All Seasons - there wasn't any appreciable difference.
  • lhasa_apsolhasa_apso Member Posts: 3
    I may be wrong in my #763 message about the lack of auto-temp climate control. Two dealers tell me different things, and Chrysler tells me a third.

    According the Chrysler, the EX uses IR sensors to keep you at the same temperature, but the sliders for temp on the EX don't act like a thermastat.

    So I'm still unclear if the EX has auto temp control or not. Maybe someone who has an EX could let me know?

    Thank You.
  • fly6869fly6869 Member Posts: 17
    The EX does not have auto temp. controls.
  • bondguybondguy Member Posts: 20
    TO HOWIE99MN: We got a T&C LXi in bright silver...noticed that the day we got home with it, the paint was shiny but when we ran our hand over the finish, it had a gritty feeling...like their was some sort of "overspray" on it...took it to the dealer's body shop and he told us it was something called "rail dust"...from transporting it on the trains. They did something at the dealer called where they coated it with what they called "mud" and it took care of the problem...this may be what you have. Now the paint is smooth to the touch. Unless, you are talking about an imperfection in the "color" of the finish.
  • bondguybondguy Member Posts: 20
    Why do "YOU" feel compelled to post on the T&C/Caravan section of messages...you have your Honda "micro-van" with your amazing flip down seat (roadnoise multiplier)...you must be lost..go to the Odyssey section and converse with all your fellow Odd-ys...you can brag to each other how stupidly you paid thousands over the sticker price for your no-featured basic Honda Accord with two extra seats. I think you search this section because you envy others for making the right decison in getting a much better van...the T&C/Dodge...it is the "best" minivan ever!!!
  • aps5aps5 Member Posts: 43
    Just a note to confirm the 2100 noise is still present on my 2001 awd Lxi, now with almost 7000 miles (I'm catching up fast to others in the group). Interestingly, I did hear it when parked in neutral, on a very cold day. I heard it with the factory tires, and I hear it with my Nokian Hakka Q snow tires, although it is true their hum helps mask the noise. The tire argument is as ridiculous as my dealer's replacement of a "bushing" on the underside, to solve the problem.

    True, the van is fantastic, and otherwise very quiet, except for wind noise. I do drive at high speeds - 70-80, and maybe this is unavoidable. I really think the antenna is at fault, although I will find out soon when I remove the roof cross bars.
  • howie99mnhowie99mn Member Posts: 20
    Although the Minivans were not Crash tested last night, two otherChrysler cars, the LHS, and Stratus received improved marks of acceptable and good. But we won't no the actual results for the Minivans until later this month?


    Interestingly, the Honda Civic which is a way smaller car outscored almost all vehicles except the luxury Mecedes Benz.


    http://www.dateline.msnbc.com

  • mandm5mandm5 Member Posts: 3
    The EX does not have auto temp controls, I know, I purchased an EX 3/13/01. By the way, the phone reps at Chrysler do not seem to be any more familiar with the EX than some of the car salesman I had dealt with. Most of the Chrysler salespeople had not even heard of the EX until I told them about it. When I called the Chysler rep to find out if there were options in upholstery fabric in the EX (there are not), he said the EX's weren't available yet -- to which I replied, that's funny, I've driven an EX at three different dealerships! The moral of the story is: nobody knows what they are talking about yet. Go to the Chrysler.com website for a list of features on the EX, and other T&Cs. There is also a side by side comparison with the EX and the Oddysey, but be careful, it is not completely accurate, as I took it to the Honda dealer and went item by item down the list and found several misleading statements. Still bought the EX though, just liked the comfort and interior features better and love the power liftgate, although it hits the garage door when fully open.
  • scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    #3. TROLLS!

    #2. Trolls.

    #1. Again... trolls.

    ---

    Hotspur, perhaps you can explain to us why you changed your user name from the one you were previously using named Capecodder? Forgot your password, or do you think you're actually fooling somebody?
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    To find out what you claim to already know dial 1-877-PROVE-IT.
  • jfz219jfz219 Member Posts: 63
    Bondguy and others make reference to rough paint on newly delivered vans. This is probably rail dust that the van accumulates in transit. There is a nice description of this on Zainobros.com.

    The best way to remove these minuscule pieces of metal is by clay barring the entire car. The special clay is offered by Zaino, McGuires, Magic Clay and other brands. With a little experience, the whole van can be washed and clay barred in about an hour. This is the best preparation for the polish of your choice. You won't believe how smooth and clean the surface will be.

    This technique is great after a winter of snow and grime.
  • familyoffivefamilyoffive Member Posts: 2
    First of all, thanks for the positive respones to my 2100 RPM question.

    Can anybody comment on the dealer installed VCP-Monitor (LCD TV on a overhead console) add-on? What is the going dealer price and are there other alternatives on the aftermarket, that match fit and finish?
  • ted_d_bearted_d_bear Member Posts: 3
    The dealer gave us a quote of $26065.00 for a silver EX with the side airbags. He said this was $100.00 over invoice. I know that it is not according to this site, so we will work on that. We also want the el grande warranty (7yrs/100,000 miles), which he quoted at $1995.00. How can I find out if this is a good price for the warranty?
    Thanks.
  • ed12ed12 Member Posts: 100
    Suppose I am looking at a Grand Caravan for sticker of $30,000. What would be a reasonable lease rate for 48 months given the $2000 owner loyalty allowance and other rebates.

    Ed
  • rfo10rfo10 Member Posts: 1
    To familyoffive: We have a '01 T&C FWD Ltd. and had the Chrysler VCR unit installed. Looked at others, but most had the box mounted on the floor under the 3rd row seat leaving it exposed if you removed the seat and difficult to replace tapes. Cost as I recall it was probably around $1500. Downside if you're leasing is that lessors do not residualize it. I would say that picture quality and fit & finish is excellent. You'll also lose a little bit of storage as the box is mounted in a center console unit which can be installed in either the 1st or 2nd row. Once mounted however you'll lose the ability to move it. Hopefully this helps.
  • carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    But the important question is: WHY do owners of an Odyssey feel compelled to troll in DC forums? Are they completely disapointed that the "Magic Seat" is a cheap trade-off for the many comfort and convenience features of a DC minivan?
    We who own the ultimate comfort vehicle...A DC minivan...do not consider the ability to haul home 10 sheets of sheetrock each week from Home Depot by flipping down the Magic Seat the ONLY feature of a minivan. For DC owners, comfort and convenience is more important than to have our minivan double as a cargo van each weekend.
    I am always amazed at how CR, Edmunds, etc are awed and overwhelmed by that old station wagon folding into the floor trick...now called the "Magic Seat".
  • fly6869fly6869 Member Posts: 17
    Mandm5 I also had the same experience before buying an Ex. I was telling the dealers things they should have known. First talked to Chrysler about using our friends and family "coupon" and recent grad. discount. They said it was no problem. Went to a dealer who had finally got an Ex in stock, they said no problem to use such discounts. Didn't buy because van did not have side air bags. Talked with a dealer later in the week who said my discounts were no good. Called first dealer back and made sure they said my discounts were good and bought the van. Paid $26081 out the door. Three days later dealer calls and says they made a mistake and we owe them money back for the discounts they gave. Long story short talked to an attorney and will not have to pay money back. Dealer should have done it's homework..
  • bondguybondguy Member Posts: 20
    TO JFZ219...that's exactly what the dealer told me it was and what they used to get it off...he said they would give it a clay wash...took care of the problem and now it looks great...and, CARLETON1, I agree with you...the Odyssey's "magic" seat was around on station wagons in the late sixties...so what's so magic about that...the vehicle still looks like a giant potato on wheels. The Honda Odyssey, besides being "plain jane" inside and plasticky all over, has got to be one of the ugliest vehicles to come along since the AMC Pacer. The only real thing it has going is it's high safety ratings (in which case you go with the Toyota...I think they rated them the same). And maybe the assumption that it is built well because it is a Honda (although if you look in Consumer Reports, the last two years of Odyssey's...since they changed the style...have been less reliable and more prone to problems than the original body style that came out...what does that tell you. I think that with all the problems that Chrysler and Dodge have had in the past few years, this is going to be their breakthrough year...they know it's basically a totally redesigned vehicle from ground up and I'm hoping they put more emphasis on fixing prob's they had in the past...ie:transmissions, etc. Everytime I see another Chrysler van on the road that is older than a 2001 model year, especially a 2000 model, I can't help but think how pissed off I would be if I had bought one of those and this totally new model came out with all of the features. That rear liftgate is a real lifesaver with two kids when you've got four or five kids birthday parties in one weekend. People who wait two months for a Honda and then eagerly pay over sticker price prove that there are all kinds of people out there: I'm in sales...I wish I could get these same people in my closing office and charge them way over list price!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • bondguybondguy Member Posts: 20
    I just went to the Prob's with Odyssey section...because I've never been there before. it's amazing all the problems people are having with their vans. Like the service engine light coming on for no reason after so many miles...maybe this is just a way to get you into the dealer...like Nissans used to have years ago...where they tell you only a "Honda" dealer can turn off the light...so you either succomb to them or wait until it burns out. And all the road noise people talk about from the rear of the vehicle...yo...idiots...if your "magical..arghh" seat folds into the floor, how much empty space must be there when you have it in the upright position...and then there is the sloshing sound because that's the way the gas tank is designed. Pay more..get less...I think Honda Motor Co. should be commended on the marketing genius to create such a demand for a second rate product. Hey, they even fooled all the press!!!
  • BKSuttonBKSutton Member Posts: 23
    OK - I've been reading along and taking interest in the 2100 ram resonance/vibration issue.

    I have a couple of questions.
    1. In one post you recommended driving uphill and holding about 2100 ram to induce the problem. However I have also seen posts that say cruising at highway speeds (65-70mph) puts the drive train in the same range and the problem is evident. Does both of these situations cause the problem? I would think driving up an extended incline puts the drivetrain under more load than maintaining a cruising speed and so I'm curious if the drivetrain needs to be under load for this to happen or just be turning at the indicated rpm?

    2. Vibration vs resonance. I've heard this problem described both ways. I've been unable to drive an AWD van yet so this is why I'm trying to get a better picture of the issue. Is this sympton like having a wheel out of balance, something you would feel? Or, is it more of a tonal frequency phenomenon and hence something you hear? Is it both of these?
    For instance, our 95 Volvo has a quirck in that if you are driving at 35-40mph with the sunroof open the air passing over the opening creates a harmonic disturbance inside the car (it has to do with the shape of the opening btw). The effect is a 'thumping' sound, like a helicopter hovering directly overhead. This is something you hear, and maybe feel in your ears but it really isn't a vibration that you feel thru the steering column, gas pedal etc.
    Can you say as to which of these the 2100 rpm issue is more like?

    Apologies for the somewhat long post but appreciative of the input.
    -- BKS
  • mnoutdoorsmnoutdoors Member Posts: 19
    BKSutton, I'm sure Rolfe will respond but thought it might be of value to share my experiences as well.

    Regarding your first question, cruising in an AWD at 65-70 mph once the transmission 'locks-up' puts you in the 2100 RPM range. The noise heard here is the same type that the van will exhibit in any gear at 2100 RPM. In the lower gears (1,2,3), normal driving situations rarely result in sitting at 2100 RPM. In this case, you will hear the noise briefly as the engine goes through 2100 RPM but it is quiet on either side. In the higher gear ratios, engine RPM varies less with speed, and the load on the engine is also increased - thus the vans will stay within the 2100 RPM range longer and you will hear the noise continuously all the time they are in it. Increased load results in increased volume. In my van, cruising at 65-70 up even the slightest incline causes a noticeable increase in volume. Rolfe's technique of driving uphill achieves the same thing, you just don't have to be on the highway going as fast.

    Vibration vs Resonance - you will feel a small vibration. It is nothing so severe as a wheel out of balance. In terms of vibrations, it is very slight and is of a high frequency. It can often be felt through the gas petal, if you sit in the middle seats, reach down and rest your hands on the metal pedestal under the cushion. You'll feel it. The vibration is really not a problem however. It doesn't change much with speed or engine loading. If there wasn't a corresponding noise, I suspect we'd never be talking about it.

    The problem comes from the sound. Hum out-load to yourself at a low frequency continuously. Or imagine having a small hole in your muffler. The sound is more like that. For a point of reference, if I travel down the highway and turn the van's fan on high, I can still very clearly hear this low frequency resonance (or hum, or drone) throughout the passenger compartment. I can turn on the radio - its still there. On a cold day (20s or below), there is more resonance in the sound. Imagine having your head in an oil drum and humming loadly to yourself. When its warmer, you only have the sound to contend with vs the harsh resonance.

    It is not at all like the low frequency thumps of a helicopter.

    I hope you're able to test drive an AWD and listen for yourself. Only then can you reach your own decision as to whether this is acceptable for you or not. Good Luck!
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Member Posts: 81
    BKSutton, I prepared this offline, and I now see the post by mnoutdoors. Even though much of this is repititious to his post, I'll leave it as-is so that you'll see the remarkable similarity in our experiences.

    >>1. In one post you recommended driving uphill and holding about 2100 rpm to induce the problem. However I have also seen posts that say cruising at highway speeds (65-70mph) puts the drive train in the same range and the problem is evident. Does both of these situations cause the problem?

    Answer: Both cause the problem. In the former case, your speed will be in the low 30mph range, so there is less wind noise and road noise and the problem is very evident. Also, this may be an easier test to perform, depending on your terrain (I live near Seattle -- hilly). I recommend modulating (or pumping) the accelerator every second or so to hear the noise come and go. Don't stomp it or hold it so much that your speed changes, just your rpm.

    In the latter case, 68 mph or so corresponds to 2100 rpm in overdrive. However, in my vehicle, the noise is considerably masked by the road and wind noise at 68 mph. But other reliable sources (also owners) report that at the higher speed it is VERY annoying, even intolerable for extended periods.

    The two critical factors are: 2100 rpm, regardless of which gear you are in; and some load on the engine.

    >>2. Vibration vs resonance. ... Is this sympton like having a wheel out of balance, something you would feel? Or, is it more of a tonal frequency phenomenon and hence something you hear?

    Answer: It's not at all like a wheel out of balance, it is a tonal freqency thing that you hear. I call it a resonance, because I have a technical background. That term may not be familiar to all. I claim it is quite sharply "tuned". It will actually start at exactly half way between the 2000 tick and the 2100 tick on the tach where it is maximum volume, then gradually diminish as you increase rpms toward 2600 or so. Less technical folks call it a "drone", and I think that is also a good description. You can feel it in the accelerator pedal as a vibration, but you'd have to be looking for it. It's the sound that you'll notice.

    It is steady; it is not a beat frequency; it does not pulsate. It is NOT like your sunroof example.

    I cannot tell what is resonating. It could believe it's in the intake manifold, the exhaust system, or in the engine or drivetrain.

    I hope I've answered your questions; if not, try me again.

    FWIW, I'm continuing to pursue this with my dealership. They cannot fix it, and acknowledge that. They have one other customer with the same complaint. I'm pressing them to find out from an authoritative D-C source a) what the priority is for fixing this problem; b) whether someone in Engineering is actively pursuing it; c) whether and when they expect a fix. Understandably, my dealership and the zone rep are unable to reach the appropriate people in Detroit because of the current shake-up in DCX. Until the dust settles and people know what their new job titles and responsibilities are, things will remain cloudy, I'm afraid.

    The encouraging things are that D-C is "well aware of the problem" according to several dealers and zone reps, and that the problem is acknowledged to be present on all 2001 AWDs. The discouraging things are that D-C claims they have always had a resonance problem with AWDs (it's just more noticeable in the newer, quieter van), that D-C is having severe financial difficulties, and that there is no hard evidence, such as a TSB, that there is or will be a fix.

    My belief is that the "noise level" from owners and dealers will have to increase sufficiently for this to get high enough priority to get fixed. (We all know that if wheels were falling off, they'd get right on it!) I certainly think that we consumers are greatly empowered through our ability to share information via the Internet. It's already changing how merchants have to deal with us.

    --rolfe.
  • rrtkerrtke Member Posts: 11
    I have about 800 miles on T&C LTD AWD. I too am experiencing the noise and vibration. Even my wife who seldom notices any noise notices this one.

    In addition, has anyone else had problems with excessive rattling/squeaking from the side doors and center quad seats?

    I have an appointment this Thursday to have these looked at.

    While I love the van I am concerned. 20 minutes after taking delivery the driver side power door failed. The dealer ended up replacing the in door motor and computer control module in order to correct the problem. This was somewhat disconcerting, but I will say that my dealer has been quite good at addressing the issues. So far anyway....
  • rrtkerrtke Member Posts: 11
    One additional note. Maybe if enought people register complaints with NHTSA DCX will be forced to address the AWD issue.


    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/ivoq/default.htm

  • geoduckgeoduck Member Posts: 52
    The NHTSA complaint form deals with safety complaints--whereas the 2100 rpm issue appears to be one of inconvenience (let's hope. . .). So, I would avoid using one of these silver bullets.
  • scannerscanner Member Posts: 295
    Hotspur, here's a minivan first for ya!


    http://www.carseverything.com/news/details.html?NewsID=02856


    .

  • bondguybondguy Member Posts: 20
    As far as the rear power liftgate being only entertaining to a three year old...you've never been in the rain and loading groceries...or let somebody whose 5 feet tall or less use your van...that power liftgate is not "gimmicky"...it happens to be a great feature. In fact, sometimes when I use it when dropping my kids off at school, I get a reaction from other van owners or SUV owners like, "wow...that's a great feature...can I get that put on my van...they don't realize it's a new feature that only comes on the Chrysler/Dodge (at least for now). You can say what you want about the mechanical probs they have had in the past but don't knock the power liftgate. Also, the "yanking" sliding doors to me were one of the reasons we hated the Toyota and Honda vans. Everytime you would valet the vehicle...or somebody would try to open it like a non-powered door, they would screw it up by pulling it open and not stopping after they yanked it. I like the fact that we can open our doors on the sides manually without any more effort than a non-powered door and in the power mode, they are a lot quicker to open and close than the competition. This also seems like it would be a safety factor if the power was out on the vans, we could still effortlessly open our side doors without a problem...I don't know if the Toyota's and Honda's would work without power to the vehicle. I also wasn't aware that the Honda had rear roll down windows...I thought the Mazda was the only one that had that feature. We do have rear side windows that open (electrically I might add) from buttons on the drivers door. You want to talk gimmicky...here's gimmicky...the Mazda sales are sooooo low that for a limited time, when you buy a Mazda MPV they are including the overhead TV system as standard. I heard this on the radio last week and couldn't believe what they have to resort to...talk about a featureless, underpowered van...even though they have a "magic" seat, too!!!!!!!!!
  • BKSuttonBKSutton Member Posts: 23
    Thanks for the input. I realize it was a bit repetitious but much appreciated. A co-worker just picked up a Limited and has been very impressed. He got the FWD model. So, curiosity got the best of me - I took Friday afternoon and went test driving. FWD and AWD back to back.

    Yes I noticed the issue with the AWD and both your descriptions (posts 797, 798) were spot on but expected it to be worse. Maybe I'm not as picky as I thought. If the symptoms occurred across a wider RPM range I could see it being an issue. Granted the ambient temperature was 45-50 degrees on Friday afternoon so it was certainly on the warmer side. It will certainly make my decision tougher since when the time comes. I'm most likely 6-9 months away from a purchase.

    -- BKS
  • BKSuttonBKSutton Member Posts: 23
    It is not clear why Mr. Wardlaw insists on taking a fully optioned Grand Caravan then comparing it to the Odyssey and complaining about the price. Chyrsler should not be faulted for taking their product line and spreading it over a greater price and content range than Honda chooses to.

    I've had three Hondas - my current one being a 99 Accord sedan. I think they make some fine products that are economical to own (I really miss my Prelude!). However, with the current Odyssey, I feel the Honda product does not offer all that I want in a vehicle that I average 2+ hrs in when I travel. It feels like too much of a 'basic box' when compared to the Chyrsler. My purchase decision would be much more difficult if Honda offered some features I find useful in an environment that is more inviting. Also, the current Odyssey has had problems unchararistic to Honda, showing that just because it has an "H" in the grill doesn't mean its bullet-proof.

    If Mr. Wadlaw wants to draw direct comparisons on price and content then he should not have taken a *loaded* Caravan and compared it to an Odyssey.

    -- BKS
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    Hey Hotspur, the topic here is MY2001+ Chrysler T&C/Voyager/ Dodge Caravan. Unless you bought one, otherwiwse you should stop posting your comment in here
  • geoduckgeoduck Member Posts: 52
    After 2500 miles, the 2100 rpm noise is somewhat acceptable to me--though I wish is was gone-- I am concerned that when the vehicle gets into the 7000+ territory it may well become obnoxious.

    Right now, as long as I can converse with my 3 year old sitting in the back row I am pleased.
  • carleton1carleton1 Member Posts: 560
    At least if we can believe owners of each vehicle who post in the Town Hall. Very few, if any, owners of late model DC minivans report any transmission problems while over in the Odyssey Problems Forum the dreaded "Clunk" precursor to Odyssey transmission failure is a common discussion.
    The April 2001 CR shows the 1999 Ody as having much worse reliability for hardware and worse than average reliability for electrical. Meanwhile, Caravan has no reliability rating worse
    than average. Then look at the T&C 2WD: NO reliability rating lower than "Better than average".
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