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Comments
"How good is the base 2.5-liter DOHC V-6 engine when it comes to overall reliability and durability?"
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I only have 4400 miles on my new 2001 P (2.5L), but it has been trouble free so far. The best advice I can give you is to go to Carpoint,
http://carpoint.msn.com/home/reliability_ratings.asp
or Consumer Reports and compare the charts.
Both show this engine to be virtually bulletproof except for the '95 and '96 models had a spark plug wire problem that was taken care of in subsequent models. Carpoint shows it with all top rated marks from '95 through '99, other than the spark plug wire problem. That is as new as they show, but the engine has not changed since then, so the results should still be valid. Their information is obtained from professional mechanics. Consumer reports also gives it all top ratings, and their information is obtained from owners through mailed out questionaires. I also read four online Millenia forums, and see no indication from comments on these boards that there is any inherent problem with this engine.
The following is a quote on Carpoint concerning their rating on the engine. "Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs."
I partially based my decision to buy my car on these reports. You can also find other information by researching on the web.
used on cars.
The K series engines KL and KJ are probably the most expensive V6's in the industry and that's why Ford decided to drop further development and not attempt to meet emmmision requirements.
try again
Mazda has milked the Mill for about as much as it can. It was never intended to be a Mazda but was a last minute effort to get something out of the high bucks that they spent to develop it.
Zoom~Zoom
Rich
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mazdamilleniaclub
Click on "View All" in the Recent Messages gray band, and it will take you to the full discussion.
That said I beleive the bars on the 01-02 MMS
might give a better compromise between ride and handling. The front bar has been increased in diameter to 25mm from 20mm (a considerable amount) and for the first time (in USA) a rear bar is available.
If you go to www.msmazda.com and click on Mazda then Millenia you will see they are advertising the 2002P for 21890 with out the 4 seasons package so if you add the 600 for the package you get 22490. Not far from you're price. I'm not sure about 22000 though. Good luck.
I paid 22580 last year for a 2001P w/4seasons with msmazda (P.S. A choice I am still very happy about).
That said I beleive the bars on the 01-02 MMS
might give a better compromise between ride and handling. The front bar has been increased in diameter to 25mm from 20mm (a considerable amount) and for the first time (in USA) a rear bar is available.
Hope to hear from you before Feb 22 via the Talk to the Press discussion or at jfallon@edmunds.com with your thoughts and contact information.
Thanks as always,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director, Edmunds.com
1. A Camry XLE V6 with no leather, no heated seat, no cd-changer,no Bose audio system, no optitron instrumentation (lexus like gauges), boring styling and ride, and eveybody got one.2. A Honda Accord EX V6 with no heated seat, only 15" rims, no Bose audio system, boring ride and styling, no optitron instrumentation, and again everybody seem to have one.
BTW, the Millenia is a class above these two cars anyway and you can't get an Acura TL, Infinity I30, any BMWs, or Lexus for this price either. So I do think that you got one heck of a car for the price that you paid for it.
Enjoy the car and if you see any camcord on the road, just smile and be glad that you're the driver of those boring cars.
just my 2c
The way it worked is the dealer offered the car at a discount of $2600 and the $4K (last year) rebate came off the discounted price.
I'm pretty sure they make up profit on the options that do not get discounted and carry nice profit margins.
How will its demise affect used car prices????
The future is bleak, so if you are thinking about buying MM think again. There are so many new models coming out that if you do spend $$$$$$, you will regret it very shortly. While Toyota Camry and Honda Accord are pricey they are so for a good reason. Their engines are simply better. It is not uncommon to see those two reach 200K, something that Millenia might be able to reach very rarely. Also if it is possible wait for the new 2003 Honda Accord. You will get all the technology that is now available (unlike Mazda Millenia which was produced first in 1995 and aside from cosmetic changes has not been seriously updated). Of course you may spend 2.000 or so more and go for Maxima with 255 HP Navi and host of other goodies it will smoke Millenia in any situation. Also you may opt for G35 which is it!
Now if you are looking for a car that some old folk will mistake for Lexus and that is what makes you world go around then Millenia could be the one. Other than that seek alternatives Ciao SAxon II
Do you get paid to trash Millenia? Or is it just the way you get your jolly's? If you hate them so much, you could use your time better by avoiding the Millenia thread totally instead of your constant trolling and fishing expeditions to try to PO Millenia owners.
You are wasting our time and yours too, as those of us who own them know what a line of nonsense you spit out. Try some other threads. Maybe you can get everyone upset with you, instead of just us. How about putting down BMW's for awhile (Whats wrong with BMW?), or Lexus (What's Wrong With Lexus???). Also, they are having a nice little Infinity bashing contest in a new thread (Why don't Infinitis sell?), you should enjoy that. Good luck.
I knew the Millenia was going to be discontinued when I bought mine...I still bought it. Who cares?
Besides...it's not like Oldsmobile, where the entire company is being dropped!
Anyway, people buy cars cuz they like them, worrying about when the automaker is gonna pull the plug is not a concern for most people that love cars.
Personally, I lease my cars so I couldn't give a hoot what automakers have in mind. I enjoy driving those cars till the lease is over and then turn them in. By the time the leases are over for my 2000 Maxima and 2001 Millenia these cars will be extint, meanwhile I am enjoying the heck out of them.
Enjoy what you drive, and let others do the same...
Peace!
Speed
BTW, just passed 40,000 miles on our 2000 Millenia S. Loving every miles we put on it; only one minor problem so far; the auto-tilt steering wheel would not auto-tilt every now and then. Other than that, it's a joy to drive. After all these years, I still love the way this car looks, classy and sporty at the same time.
cheers
peace
Probably would have bought the P for about 21.4 except wife had an issue with the steering wheel. She is 5' 3" med. frame. The steering wheel on the MM is noticably larger than on other cars we tried. She found that it was nearly impossible to achieve a comfortable driving position because of the diameter. I guess this is the reason you have to actually try everything out before you buy.
1. To fwatson: I do not understand why you keep on insistng that I trash MM. I only state facts - All I have said is true. Engine, design, tranny, interior, are from 1995, no matter how you slice it. Is this trashy??? Well a fact is a fact. I am only trying to inform potential buyers about the negative aspects of MM, knowing that the rest of you will surely fill in the other side that is the posite things of this car. As for BMW, Lexus, and Infinity, well one thing is for sure those three do not wait 7 years (1995 - 2002) to update their cars, ooops sorry as a matter of fact MM has not been seriously updated and will ot be at all. Be that as it may, none of those companies would try to sell a car tht is 7 years old in design with a straight face. So in that department there is nothing I could throw their way in terms of criticism. Moreover, I think it is unfair for BMW, Lexus and Infinity to be mentioned in the same post with MM. Not the same class by a long long shot. After all I have yet to see any owner of the above three brands getting super excited by having their car confused with Mazda Millenia. The opposite however, has happened according to posts on this board (by Tomekk if I am not mistaken) and as I said before If you really want people to think that you drive a Lexus then buy one. Getting all hot because some fellow confused you 22K MM for Lexus is ridiculus and just so sad.
As for me spilling nonsense please be specific what nonsense? What parts of my numerous posting do you consider as such? I would be happy to show you the light.
2. To milleniaman1: You accuse me of being jelous? Of what a 22K car, pleassssssee get a grip man. If you were driving somethign exciting like a Viper, Acura NSX, Porshe, Lexus (any), yes I probably would be a little jelous and would envy you that you are driving somethign that makes my pulse go up. As I said Millenia is a nice car but it is nothing extraordinary. Sorry to bring you down like that but I recently saw an ad for brand new 2001 MM-S for 22.5 hardly a great amount of $$$$$$$ specially here in New York.
3. To Speedracer3: Yes I would like to have a Maxima and it is true that it will be changed for 2003, only three years after the introduction of the current model (Mazda M - 7 years and still counting). I also never said that Maxima was a perfect car, it has its shortcomings and I am aware of them. If you wish you can point them to me and trust me I will not call you names, get peronal, post your address on this board, insult you, or menton your m.....hood (all of it has happened to me on this board because of my postings). It is only cars and I can accept negative commnets on Maxima any day as a matter of fact I welcome it.
4. To csuftitus: You call me narrow minded, and you have the right to your opinion, but it would be nicer to hear a more specific dare I say more sofisticated response from someone who call others narrow minded.I await your response.
I do not post here to upset you people. I do it so that potential buyers know both negatie and positive aspects of Mazda Millenia and I do not work for any car company. I would give you my profession but I am a bit weary of that. You never know.
Ciao Saxon II
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"I do not post here to upset you people. I do it so that potential buyers know both negatie and positive aspects of Mazda Millenia and I do not work for any car company. I would give you my profession but I am a bit weary of that. You never know.
Ciao Saxon II"
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You are the perfect example of a troll. Your only purpose is to argue and stir up negative feelings. As to debating point to point with you concerning your supposed truth and knowledge, that would be an endless process. Because by their very nature, a troll will always attempt to have the last word to prove his self proclaimed superiority. This comes through in your arrogant attitude of showing us lesser mortals the "negatie and positive aspects" of our choice.
As a matter of fact, all the cars available today are based on the same mechanicals that are decades and even centuries old, varying only in how they are machined and assembled to be the particular vehicle they are. The Millenia is a highly sophisticated example of how these pieces are assembled. It can easily compare in every way with the exception of that (to some people) almighty horsepower, to any vehicle on the road today. And the power of even the P is more than sufficient for all normal conditions. As has been stated here and elsewhere, much of the engineering of the Millenia is still above it's so called competitors. Check the all independent, multilink suspension of the wonderful new G35 (no struts) that they are so proud of. Now check the suspension of the Millenia. Oops, now who is playing follow the leader?
That is as far as I am going to carry this debate, as I know your only intent is to try to disprove anything any of us say, and there can be no end to that kind of argument. That is not what this forum is about, and we do not need a self appointed savior to show us how terrible our choice was in selecting a Millenia. As I said before, you are wasting both our time and yours with your self proclaimed "facts".
Sorry Admin, I will drop this silly argument, and maybe saxon will manage to find something productive to do with his time.
Folks that is the bottom line, but wait- We can all get together and start a fund call the "SAXON MILLENIA FUND", get enough money for the car and donate it to him so he can shut the f..k up.
Maxima (Cons)
1) Paint-horrible
2) Interior-materials are not the best.
3) Ride can be rough (SE)
Millenia (Cons)
1) Auto tranny
2) Crammed interior
3)Steering is overboosted
To answer your "cons" on the Millenia. At first my transmission seemed to shift strangely. But now, with close to 4600 miles on the odometer, it is completely smooth. I am not sure of the reason for that, unless it electronically reprogrammed itself. As for the interior being cramped, it feels more open and airy to me from a driving position, than the other cars I tested. My only complaint there is the width of the opening between the brake pedal, and the console. I do not have especially wide feet, but when wearing my canvas walking shoes, the transition from brake to gas seems a little narrow. The back seat has less foot and leg room than my Olds 88, and for more than two passengers back there, it would be cramped. But the design of the seats, and fold down rear seat console make it appear to be designed for two from the beginning, with a third person in a pinch. Mostly I put a blanket back there to protect the leather, and it serves fine for my dog to travel with us. My kids are adults and gone from home now.
The steering seems just right to me, but I have been acustomed to large American sedans, and they have highly boosted steering. Compared to Japanese and German cars it probably has a lighter feel, but compared to the American cars I have owned, it drives and handles much better. A lot of people are comparing the Millenia to higher powered cars and rejecting it on that basis. I find it more a highway cruiser than a hot rod, but very adequately powered under all driving conditions.
You are right, they are very different cars, aimed at different types of people. The Millenia gives me the feeling of driving an elegant car, where the Maxima felt more common to me. You can see from all this that I am more the Millenia type than Maxima. But I would certainly consider the Max a very nice car, and for those who either need, or think they need more power, it would be an excellent choice.
They also both have excellent reliability, so that was a moot point. I will keep the car until it is worn out, so depreciation is of no importance to me. And at more than $3000 less than the best cash deal I could get on the GLE, choosing it over the others was a no brainer.
I personally do not find the Millenia to be cramped...
I'll admit...I never felt like the base engine had quite enough power...but that is why I traded in my 99 Base for the S. I have let a lot of my friends drive the car...they all love driving it...sometimes when I've had a few too many drinks...the sober ones fight over who will get to drive it.
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Millenia:
Exterior dimensions (inches)
Wheelbase 108.3
Overall length 191.6
Overall width 69.7
Height 54.9
Track front & rear 59.8
Interior dimensions (inches)
Front Headroom 37.9
Rear headroom 36.5
Front legroom 43.3
Rear legroom 34.1
Front Shoulder room 55.1
Rear Shoulder room 54.2
Capacities (cubic feet)
Passenger volume 91
Cargo Volume 13
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Maxima:
INTERIOR & EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS (inches)
-Wheelbase ----------------------108.3
-Overall Length ------------------190.5
-Overall Width ---------------------70.3
-Overall Height --------------------56.5
-Head Room (front/rear) --------40.5/37.4
-Leg Room (front/rear) ----------44.8/36.2
-Hip Room (front/rear) ----------55.3/53.7
-Shoulder Room (front/rear) --56.9/56.2
VEHICLE CAPACITIES
-Passenger Capacity----102.5 Cubic Feet
-Cargo Capacity ------------15.1 Cubic Feet
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It can be seen from those dimensions, that the Millenia is about one inch longer, one half inch narrower and one and one half inches lower than the Maxima. The only significant difference is in the height. The styling does make it appear smaller.
On the inside, the only big difference again is in the height, with the Maxima having two and one half more inches of front headroom. The rear headroom only gives it a one inch advantage. It also has an additional one and a half inches of front legroom with the seat all the way back, for the super long legged folks. And two inches more rear leg room for the rear seat passengers assuming the front seats aren't pulhed all the way back.
As for the interior width, the front seat passenger and more importantly the driver, would have less than one additional inch in the Maxima. The rear seat is two inches narrower in the Millenia (one inch per side). All of these but the front seat headroom are minimal. The large difference in interior capacity, from 91 cubic feet to 102.5 cubic feet is again largely due to the front seat headroom. The Millenia, due to it's beautiful styling also has considerably more tumblehome on the sides, and a sharply raked windshield which cut into the volume. The rounded rear styling probably accounts for the difference in trunk capacity, which is about equvilant to two gallon jugs of milk.
Perception of size has a lot to do with the size of the person. I am 5' 11", 180 pounds, and the Millenia does not feel the least bit cramped for me as the driver, or front seat passenger. I have not ridden in the back seat, but it does feel more cozy than that of the Maxima. All in all I would sum up the difference, that the Millenia has an open, airy but personal feeling interior. While the Maxima feels like a nicely appointed family sedan. That is not a put down, I almost bought one. And if you buy a Maxima without a sunroof, that will make a big difference in headroom. You don't have that choice with the Millenia.
Another car that is very large inside, about 106.6 cu ft, is the Avalon. When I was looking at Toyota's at the '02 Camry introduction, I was offered a cloth seat Avalon for $24500 out the door. I couldn't get past the design of the instrument panel though, and saw no advantage to it other than interior size. Millenia's aren't the only ones with big discounts.
The personal attacks need to stop right here. If any of you need to continue the conversation, you will have to do it off-line.
If anyone has anything else to say about this situation, feel free to email me.
Any further posts in that vein will necessarily be removed.
Please carry on and pardon the interruption - I needed to make these points after all that ugliness occurred.
Thank you.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
There's an even brighter 5000K bulbs made by PIAA; called Super Plasma, but it cost about $30 more and I don't know exactly how it looks in terms of beam color and brightness. Check out this link for more info of the Millenia's bulb
http://www.autobulbdepot.com/fr_prodindex.tpl?cart=3096637511121121
and here for bulbs 101
http://www.autobulbdepot.com/fr_prodindex.tpl?cart=3096637511121121
If anyone wants to see the difference between the original bulb and the CATZ bulb, please let me know. I'll swap one out with the original bulb and will take a digital shot of it with my new Fuji Digital Cam :-).
cheers
in 2/03 and would love to be able to get another...
Good Luck,
Bob