Mazda Millenia

obioha1 · March 2002

I agree with those on the board who say that if you don't like the millenia then don't buy it. It really is that simple. I understand saying that "your" particular millenia gave you problems but don't condem the car in general. I feel like the millenia is a great car with really spectacular looks. When it came out in '95 it was a technological marvel. I mean a 210HP miller-cycle engine, an advanced 4 wheel independent suspension, which ironically is similar in setup of bmw's strut type front and multilink rear. The fit and finish of the exterior and interior was and still is truly world class. The millenia was truly ahead of it's time in '95 and had mazda made it rear wheel drive like the 929 automotive journalist would be drooling over it. When sells fell way below projections mazda kind of scrapped the millenia. I mean as a car it is equal or better than the cars in its class in terms of engineering and quality. Saxonii's maxima's interior is rather cheap compared to the millenia and a rear beam axle in this day and age(come on), 3.2tl-s's interior is a picture of cost-cutting and mundane styling to booth. Had the car taken off like mazda hoped I know for a fact that all of the improvements we want to see ,ie more power, navigation ,HID lights, one-touch windows, hydraulic hood lift would've definitely seen the light of day in the millenia but these things cost money and the millenia isn't mazda's money maker so economically it makes sense not to add equipment. I guess mazda isn't a company caring for gadgets just innovative engineering. I still don't know why mazda didn't advertise like it should've. Everyone knows that if the millenia was the exact same car just with an "L" instead of the "M" on the hood, lexus wouldn't be able to keep enough of them. Yes for the most part the millenia is rather unchanged mechanically since it's inception but even with this fact it is still a contender. All millenia owners know what a jewel they possess too bad the rest of the world hasn't caught on.

fwatson · March 2002

You jumped in before I got my turn.

'course I would have had to post repeats anyway, as there are only so many sources of proof.

ciao, hey?

speed33 · March 2002

Precisely, Mazda Millenai was a great car in ... 1995 when it came out. It did have a cute design, nice interior and funky (in a positive way) engine in the S model. But that was in freaking 1995 - 7 years ago. True the basic design of a gasoline engine has not been radically changed for a while but the car does show its age and is lacking certain toys that one would wantin and expect in near luxury segment. I will not mention other cars that have all the goodies mazda Millenia is lacking(Pat is watching)and let's face it, it's the little things lile Nav, 8 airbags, 8 speakers + sub+ amp, heck even cup holders are just some of the things that people go for. To sum it up: Millenia was a winner in 95 but now: .... well it is not.

maltb · March 2002

You never addressed my question to you about it's true competition. Does the Mills true competition(think price range) have 'Nav, 8 airbags, 8 speakers + sub+ amp'?

I don't think so.

speed33 · March 2002

Maybe the reason that many do not select Millenia is the miniscule difference that one has to absolve in order to drive something that is only 15K ore expensive. If Millenia S goes for 25K and Lexus IS300, ES300, BMW 325, Infinity G35, Mercedes C240, Jaguar (the cheapest one), Cadillac CTS (the newest one), Lincoln LS V6, and couple others can be purchased for 15K more (around 40K before taxes), then the difference is not that huge. Please hear me out, 15K over 5 years is only 3.000 more a year which comes to what 250 bucks a month more. Think about it, for less than $10/day one coud get a nicely equipped BMW over mazda Millenia S - not a bad deal. Just my 2c.
This is not to say that Millenia is not a great buy, it is to some, but I think that many people go through the numbers and prefer to spend couple thousands more and get something that has better brand recognition.

speed33 · March 2002

I cannot mention other cars on this board (pat's orders) so sorry but I am not ableto answer you. I do not want to give Pat any reasons to earase my posts so sorry. However my previous posts might address the issue.

maltb · March 2002

In fact a sharp buyer could swing a Protege ES for this price. I contend that it makes a huge difference.

I have no problem with people comparing one car to another and I think Pat misunderstood the sentiment in the forum. I think the issue is when a participant is antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic. Bring on the facts Speed.

chesterz · March 2002

I currently own a 2000 Millennia Millenium Edition that I purchased in the summer of 2000. I have been basically pleased with the automobile, but have experienced some things I have not been terribly happy about. The fit and finish on the automobile are excellent. I have three items I am not happy with: 1. No lower lumbar support adjustment - really did not notice the lack of support when I purchased the vehicle. I moved last summer 1400 miles and sure noticed it after about 300 miles on the road. Could never get really comfortable even with the power seat adjustments. 2. Constant rattle in left rear end of car. Dealers claim to hear nothing, but I hear it every time I drive it. 3. Climate Control on automatic setting - hear the AC compressor kicking in and out as needed - creates a small rattling sound - again Dealers claim this is "normal."

I was surprised two weeks ago when I had to replace original factory tires at 29,000 miles. I have faithfully rotated and balanced every 5,000 miles. No front end alignment problems - tires wore evenly, but the original Dunlops are these z-rated 17" low profiles. Thought I could get at least 35-40K out of them. I could see evidence of the steel belts!

I would probably not buy another one if they were still going to be made after 2003.

With the Miller engine, I feel it has plenty of guts to do what ever type of driving I want.

My overall satisfaction with the vehicle is 7.5 out of 10.

maltb · March 2002

Want me to say it? An IS300 or a BMW 330 is a better car. No dung sherlock...

pat · March 2002

Regarding speed/saxon - we have long ago established how he feels about the Millenia.

If he wants to continue to post on-topic messages here about what's wrong with the Millenia, then let's all agree to ignore him. After all, we don't care what he thinks so let's don't even talk to him. Looks like lots of you are doing a good job at this so far.

He will not have any fun at all if NO one responds to him.

Trust me on this and give it a try.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

maltb · March 2002

Different person. I say let the comparisons fly. He's basically backing off from original claim anyway and trying to say that if you throw another quarter in the jukebox you get more music. We knew that.

csuftitans · March 2002

chesterz, I own a 2000 Millenia S, now with almost 45K miles on it. I replaced the original's 17" tires at around 36K miles. Please remember that this is a low profile 50 series tires that wouldn't have last long anyway. The same would probably applies to any cars with similar tire size as yours; like Acura TL TypeS and BMW 330i, but 29K miles seems pretty low. What kinds of tires do you have on the MilleniaS ME. Mine was a Dunlop SP sport 4000 A/S with a V rated rubber. Did you say that your's is a Z rated? I wonder if Mazda uses different tires for the Millenium Ed.
Anyway, I replaced mine with a set of four Falcon Azenis ST115, same size for $490 out the door (mounting and balancing included); very good tires and at a very good price.
Anyway, about the 3 stuff you're not happy with,
1)The seats fit me perfectly, so I have no need of lumbar support; BTW< the 2001-2002 model have lumbar support.
2)Go to other dealership and have them check it
3)I almost never use the "Auto" climate control; I feel like the blower fan almost always blows too hard.

cheers

tomekk · March 2002

1. What do you mean by "lower lumbar support" - I have power lumbar support on 2001 S that works fine for me. You don't have it or you want something in addition to that?

2. Yeah, in this case your satisfaction depends on the dealer...

3. I just had my AC blower bearing assembly replaced after I complained it was too noisy . . .Mazda Gallery in Norwood, MA, they didn't even dispute it nor made me prove it was wrong.

Tires - well, that's early - I'll be watching mine. My Passat's Goodyear Eagle GA lasted 45K, but they felt "greasy" in the wet, I like the Dunlops much more.

Tomek

tomekk · March 2002

Obioha1: Right on the money.

Speed: If 15K is not an issue to you that's great... I'm allergic to spending money so it is an issue for me. Sure those cars 60% more expensive are better, nicer and so on - but they are 60% more expensive!!!
Your priorities determine your point of view - so, again, to each his own.

Peace :-)

Tomek

speed33 · March 2002

It is true that some of the newer cars are more expensive. However, if on average one keeps the car for 5 years which is not all that unreasonable, than 15K isn't all that much of $$$$. I am not rich nor do I think that 15K is small change. However, if you spread the cost over 5 years it comes to around $10 a day, not a huge amount for somebody who already is going to spend 22K+ for a brand new car. Maybe that is why a lot of people go for the three letter brand. Hey for 10K more you could get a 325> You do the math 10K over 5 years comes to 2k/year extra to be behind 325, that is less than 200 a month. Again not a terrible amount of $$$$$ By first world standards. The same goes for IS 300 and couple other cars. Maybe that is why there are more of the abovementioned cars on the roads, namely they are not all that much more expensive over a period of 5 years - not to mention the resale value.

tomekk · March 2002

Speed,

I don't look at things in terms of payments but in terms of out of pocket expenses - that's why 15K matters more to me than to you. I look at it this way: for 20K I can get a loaded Corolla (he he) or VW Jetta... I add 6K and I have a car comparable to the 35-40K crowd. That's what we all mean on this forum when we say Millenia is good value for the money. And at least I am not telling you NOT to buy one of those 35-40K cars... See, if you're in the 40K territory (BMW 330i) why not add another 15K and get the 540i for 55 thou - hey, you could end up with Bentley Turbo R this way!
Take it easy -
Tomek

fwatson · March 2002

What a totally illogical way to look at buying a car. That $4000 a year will pay my property taxes + homeowners insurance + insurance on two cars + groceries for my wife and me for three months.

Contrary to some sentiment posted here. I do not consider any of the other cars mentioned superior to the Millenia. They may be engineered to go faster, or quicker. They may have a Nav system, or electric rear window shade. Maybe a 4 thousand watt, 10 speaker subwoofer equipped, earsplitting sound system. To me that is a total waste of money. They are mere gimmicks. If you can't read and use a road map, you shouldn't be driving.

Quality and usability are engineered and built in. The Millenia is as "superior" as any of the other vehicles listed in the above posts. It lacks nothing the average person needs, and is a fine example of a beautifully executed car. I do not concede that any BMW or Lexus etc is "better" or "superior". They only offer outrageously priced toys and a huge dealer profit to spend your money on if you have an excess of that. Personally, I don't, and to say "Why not spend another $15000" for one of the afore mentioned cars is completely absurd.

kcm8419 · March 2002

I have to agree with the previous comments made about the extra amount being spent on vehicles. To some of us this extra amount can be used for other items that we deem to be more important.

Of course some people want to buy items that have that high name recognition. This is how companies can get people to pay $200 plus for a pair of gym shoes.

This $10 extra a day some people may look at it that they can go out and buy 2 more cups of coffee with that money as opposed to putting it in to a car payment.

Though I think we have all been on this discussions merry-go-around before.

nvedrani · March 2002

Speed is obviously very young and has no idea how things and FINANCING work....most people don't flat out BUY an automobile...we use this bank loan thing called "financing"- (speed33 see Websters for a definition). So take your ludicrous $15k, at let's say 8% over 5 years you'll end up paying about $18-$19k back for that original $15k INCREASE. So in essence what you were trying to say is that I should have forked out another $20k (I purchased a 2000 Mazda Millenium Ed. w/ 4,000 miles for $22k flat) to get something with a "Brand" name tag. Please THINK on this forum before you spew out worthless opinions. And once again I think we're all interested in WHAT YOU DRIVE. Hey!...LOL

fwatson · March 2002

I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever they want. If they want a $4000000 dollar house and a Bentley, and can afford it, I say go for it. Just don't call something inferior because it lacks the bells and whistles. The trinkets have nothing to do with quality or durability. Some of the finest/high quality things you can buy are the bottom of the line. 22 buttons on a washing machine doesn't make it any higher quality than the one at the laundramat.

At $30000 to $33000, the Millenia was as overpriced as a 330i, or ES300. I would never have bought one at that price. At $22000 to $25000, it is the biggest bargain in cars today. If the others would come down $8000 to $10000, they too would finally be priced where they should be in the first place. Of course the dealers would have to give up their huge houses and $80000 cars.

pat · March 2002

As long as you folks keep responding, he will keep posting. That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

rbrubaker · March 2002

Lets see, thats $0.42/hour, and $0.007/minute! What was I thinking? I am heading out to the BMW dealer ASAP!

chesterz · March 2002

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. About the tires, my mistake, they were the v-rated. I replaced them with a Goodyear tire that is excellent - Eagle LS - $700 drive out price. I live in Santa Fe, NM and living in a small city that is a major tourist destination, discounts are at a premium.

The 2000 does not have a lower lumbar adjustment like they added in 2001. I have just gotten used to having it on prior automobiles, and it helps on long driving trips.

I will go to another dealer and see their take on the rattle I hear in the rear end of the car. Will have to go to Albq., since there is only one dealer here in Santa Fe.

fredvh · March 2002

I too am looking for an entry-level luxury vehicle and my list includes the ES300, TL, Infiniti I35, and even the Toyota Camry/Honda Accord combo even though they are not "luxury" vehicles. To tell you the truth, I have never considered the Millenia because I just do not know anything about it. What price are they now for the non-S model? What kind of gas mileage can I expect out of it? Initial quality and long-term dependability are at the top of my must-have items. Does the Millenia meet this requirement? Let me know what you owners think? I hope you will give me an unbiased opinion. Thanks.

csuftitans · March 2002

fredvh, you can get a brand new Millenia P for about $21700 up to $23000 depending on wheater or not you get the 4-season pckg, Bose 9speaker audio and/or in-dash 6CD changer. Go to carsdirect.com and lookup their price, print it out and bring it to any mazda dealership and have them price match it.
Gas mileage is about 20mpg city driving. As for quality, the first year model '95 have some problems, but the build quality gets better and better each year after that. I can't tell you about long term reliability, but I expect my 2000 Millenia S to last at least until 150,000 miles (got 44800 trouble-free miles now).

chesterz · March 2002

I have always been impressed with the Millenia from when they were first introduced. I bought mine two years ago this summer and I am basically pleased with the vehicle. Dealers discount them heavily which is a plus when purchasing it. Downside, is they depreciate quickly. Plan on keeping it several years if you do purchase.

I average mileage wise about 22-24 around town and about 27 on the highway. Premium fuel with S version, I'm not sure about base model fuel requirements.

I feel that I have an auto with the long term reliability you are seeking. Initial quality is excellent. It rivals Honda Accord, in my book. I had two Accords over the years, and feel the same about the Millenia.

I feel Mazda's network of dealerships is somewhat weak. Most I have dealt with the dealership sells something else also and in that situation, I don't think a customer gets the best service. Just my opinion.

I would give the Millenia a good hard look - you get a lot of automobile for your money.

obioha1 · March 2002

I think this was brought on a previous post about actual acceleration, speed, power, etc. Isn't acceleration/speed more to do with gearing than actual power. I mean the 330ci has 225HP, not exactly incredible but it does 0-60 in like 6.3 seconds or so. The acura tl-s/cl-s infinity 1-35/2002 maxima all have 0ver 250HP yet aren't close to this figure, well maybe the TL it does it in like 6.7seconds or so. I wonder why people criticize the millenia over lack of power and the other cars in its class with 40-50HP advantage are like a second faster than the mill S, which no one can feel in real world driving anyway and slower than the lower powered 330ci. Had mazda geared the millenia more aggressively would it's "lack" of power even be an issue?
One last thing since the P shares an engine with the 626 and the discontinued ford probe GT aren't there a lot of aftermarket engine mods for it. I have seen so many modified probe GTs. They have all sorts of engine mods so there should be a slew of aftermarket for the P, now the S is a different story!

kcm8419 · March 2002

I would not touch the Santa Fe dealership. I have had a couple of bad experiences with them in the past. I bought mine at Rich's in Alb., but I have not had to use their service yet. It also appears that University has changed over their entire sales force from last year but I do not know about their service department. Although when I bought mine the sales staff at Rich's did make a point of telling me that the service department is there to make money, even though yours is under warranty still.

Thanks for mentioning your mileage.

kcm8419 · March 2002

It has been mentioned that the base model takes regular unleaded and that the mileage has been around 22 mpg in town. I bought my S for $25,000. If you are considering the Toyota take a look at the engine sludge discussion they have going on. I have not looked at that in a few months but it appears to be affecting the V6's. I do not know if this could also be tied to the Lexas's. This is what turned me away from looking at the Toyota's.

protegenic · March 2002

OK, forget about performance, and gas mileage and which car is better, blah, blah, blah.

Do you ever catch yourself just sitting back and looking at your Millenia from a little distance? I do all the time since I drive my wife's 2001P so seldomly, but this car has some of the nicest lines on it. Now I know this is subjective, but it is really a nice looking car. Hard to believe the basic body style has been around as long as it has.

fwatson · March 2002

Quote protegenic:
"Do you ever catch yourself just sitting back and looking at your Millenia from a little distance?"

I've had my '01 Platinum Silver Millenia P since Sept '01. And to this day, everytime I go into my garage or see it on a parking lot when I come out of a store, I actually find myself verbalizing "Damn that thing's gorgeous". It is simply an involuntary reaction on my part.

True, styling is subjective, but the Mazda stylists hit the nail on the head when thay did the Millenia, and improved it with the '01 update. I always admired the 929, and the Millenia ouclasses it IMO.

I was running alongside a 530 BMW this morning, and thinking how mine looks better than his. When we stopped at a light, the BMW driver called his passenger's attention to my Millenia.

I have gushed all over myself previously in this thread about my car. So I'll cut it out before someone thinks I'm a paid advocate for Mazda.

billyperks · March 2002

I still think the 99-00 body stlye looks better than the 01-02.:)
Guys please dont turn this into a long debate now:).
I am going to check out the NYC auto show tomorrow,I will give those of you who cannot make it an update on the new Mazda products.

protegenic · March 2002

Subjective comments are fine. Insinuating comments that I am a fool for buying a Millenia, or any other car for that matter, are just getting old.

There. That is my Good Friday rant. Hope all have good weekend.

fwatson · March 2002

Quote billyperks: "I still think the 99-00 body stlye looks better than the 01-02.:)"

As I said, styling is subjective. There are probably even some who think the styling on all years of Millenia stink. I think they all look great except the older gold ones with gold badging. That combination just doesn't do it for me, and I don't care for gold badging on any color car of any make. Again, subjective. As long as we each like our own, that's what counts.

csuftitans · March 2002

I do agree that Millenia's body has a very nice beutiful lines unlike any other cars out there. I love my 2000 Mill's styling but, I like the taillights on the '01-'02 Mill's.

Anyway, Have a Great Weekend to All ! I'm gonna go home now, driving my beautiful 2000 Millenia S :-)

cheers

csuftitans · March 2002

fredvh, you can get a 2002 Millenia P with 4-season pckg for no more than $22,200 after the rebate. I don't know how long this rebate's gonna last, but $22K for an entry'level luxury car is one heck of a deal. Go to carsdirect.com and price the millenia P, then print it out and bring it to a dealer and have them price match it; I know most of them will match the price rather than losing sales to carsdirect.com.

I don't know much about engine, I'm sure some other ppl on this forum knows more bout it.

The 2.5l V6 engine also used in cars like Mazda 626ES, Mazda MX6, and Ford Probe, but their output is only 164Hp if I'm not mistaken , while the Millenia's is 170HP.

Good Luck

fredvh · March 2002

I just went to carsdirect and for my area they gave a price of $950 over invoice for the base P. I cannot figure that.
I have got my questions answered on the engine type from fwatson. Thanks.
Thanks csuftitans for your help. I will have to see if the incentives will be continued after 4-1. It is too late to buy before 4-1 now(closed on Sundays).

fredvh · March 2002

I saw a post concerning $5000 dealer rebate but I cannot find that anywhere. It might end on April 1 but I wonder if they will continue it. I have been looking at the Acura TL, Lexus ES300, and the Infiniti I35 but recently heard about the Millenia. This vehicle might fit my needs if I can get it substantially under the price of the TL(28K). How much should I pay for a base P with 4-seasons package (MSRP 29,195)?
Also, what is the RPM at exactly 70 mph?

csuftitans · March 2002

Don't worry, mazda or the dealership will bring back the rebate for the Millenia P and S. There's no way they expect to sell the car at close to retail price. Be patient or better yet, go to a dealer ship and ask for the fleet manager/sales manager and ask for their bottom line price. try not to deal with a salesperson who wants to start negotiating from MSRP price.

fwatson · March 2002

"go to a dealership and ask for the fleet manager/sales manager"

While I agree with what you are saying, I simply told the regular salesman I wanted their absolute lowest bottom line, no add ons to the contract when it came time to close the deal, or I would not sign it. He voluntarily took that to the sales manager, and within 10 minutes, they both came into the salesman's office and offered the car to me $7000 under MSRP, and eliminated the $995 stripe and wax add on sticker. That is almost $8000 below the window sticker price of $29545. My price was $21680 for a P without the 4 seasons. I live in central Florida where it seldom gets below 40 degrees, so 4 seasons is worthless to me.

I was offered the 6 disk changer for an extra $200, but refused that. Out the door for less than $23000. Stick to your guns, and as csuftitans says. Walk away from any salesman who starts talking MSRP. Mine actually told me we both know the MSRP and dealer add on are a joke. That's the kind of salesman you want if you can find him. Good luck, you'll need it with some of the salesmen you find out there.

fwatson · March 2002

OK you "it ain't got enough power" fanatics. Try this.

http://www.knightturbos.com/promaz.html

Take a $22000 P, add $5000 for one of these kits including labor to have it installed.

Now go Maxima hunting. Maybe even "vette" killing.

$27000 will blow most everything else into the weeds. The V-6 Supercharger is an easy 6 to 8 hour installation. If that isn't enough, spring for a Farrari.

milleniaman1 · March 2002

IMO I prefer the styling of the 99-00 Millenia...I wish I could just drop the interior of my 01 into my old 99...

tomekk · March 2002

My '01 S turns exactly 3000 RPM ... at 80 MPH (if that helps).

Tomek

speed33 · April 2002

The stuff on the page looks impressive and if it works it does give the car extra push. The only problem remains will the engine be able to take this kind of abuse???? After all it's 2.5.

speed33 · April 2002

However, as for being able to take on a corvette, well... I will never know, but it seems that for long term V8 will outlast V6 witha a turbo. Nevertheless, I pitty the fool who would try to race Millenia with the set up described on the site. Maybe and that is just maybe it would not win with the corvette but it would outgun all the Maximas, Acuras and Hondas... of course unless they did not have their own version of speed bullets. I once saw a Yugo, yes Yugo giving everybody a run for their money, lost few bucks on that one myself.

billyperks · April 2002

Since this is a Millenia board I am only going to comment on the Mazda products.
I went to the auto show on Saturday and checked out all the present and future models of all the car manufacturers.
Mazda's RX 8 was awesome,I did not get to sit in the car because they had it up on a spinning platform.
As for the Mazda 6,I came away a little disappointed,I think the inside needs improvement-looks too cheap.The interior space in my opinion is limited-I am 6'1" and I am not fat.
But overall the exterior on the 6 is very unique,the hatch back I have to say looks very nice.
Anyone else who is going to check out the show please post your opinion on the Mazda products.

protegenic · April 2002

I was hoping the 6 would be a little more impressive than it sounds. I am a bit shorter than you, so maybe I could live with it more easily, but I am disappointed to hear about the interior not looking too good. It will be interesting to see the pricing on it when it comes out.

audia8q · April 2002

don't sweat it....just like the millenia we all have different tastes and opinions. I found the mazda 6 to be almost exactly the opposite of the previous poster. The interior was great, roomy and above the typical norm for this class of car.... i'm only 6'0''. but we both agree the 5 door is the best of the bunch. I was thrilled with the mazda6. Too bad they couldnt come up with a new millenia that has as much thought and effort.

protegenic · April 2002

Not that I am going to rush and I buy the first one off the boat, but I am definitely interested in this car as an eventual replacement for my Protege. The five door is my favorite of the bunch as well.

csuftitans · April 2002

I haven't seen the Mazda6 in person yet, but from all the pics that I've seen, I'm very impressed with the way the interior looks.

audia8q took some pics of the new Mazda6 at the NY Auto Show, go to Mazda6 board to get the link.

Mazda Millenia

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