BMW 5-Series Sedans

markcincinnati · May 2006

:shades: All the late model Germans (2002+) are breathtakingly expensive to repair and not cheap to maintain.

The Audi and the BMW (if new or new-ER) may have maint included. All of the Germans can be CPO'd -- and I'd not have one that wasn't.

The Audi and Mercedes can be had with All Wheel Drive, which those of you long term posters know would be my only choice (but that doesn't mean you should do what I do) but doubly so in your geography.

Most of the Audi A6 2.7T's will be auto too, but they could have been had with sticks (as could the Bimmers.)

The 2004 A6's 2.7T SLines are steeply discounted off of their original sticker prices, perhaps even more so than the Bimmers (one would assume the Bimmer residuals are higher.)

Here in River City, a new Audi, BMW or Mercedes on a 24 to 39 month lease are actually less money PER MONTH than a used model of a comparable older version for the same term if no money is put down (or minimal money.)

A new German middle child car can be had (check your local listings) sometimes for as low as a number beginning with a "4" for 27 months with drive off costs of about $2K which includes a sec dep and the first months payment.

The deals are starting to accelerate as the mfgs seem to be subventing the heck out of SOME of the models.

The BMW 525xi for instance is (or has been) practically given away, while the demand for the 530xi has kept its price strong.

A new 525xi stick is REALLY RARE and when they are on the lot they NEVER sell -- they are often priced to move.

If you are paying cash, not leasing not financing, and you plan to buy and hold (nice plan, hope it works out), the 2004 Audi and BMW are quite good.

The Audi for 2004 with any of the engines 3.0, 2.7T or 4.2 will be AWD and have a great interior.

The 2.7T if SLINE will run away from the i6 Bimmers, if that is important. They will especially run away in the winter being AWD and all.

Now having had 2 Bimmers and 28 Audis and 2 VW's, and having tested many Bimmers since 2005, I can tell you that the Bimmer IS more of a driver's car. But this is a question of degrees that would, under the normal daily drive requirements we have here in Cincinnati, permit a coin toss were I NOT interested in AWD.

Both the Audi and the BMW (and the Mercedes, too, somewhat less IMHO) are LPS cars. The BMW emphasizes P a bit more than Audi.

These cars, however, are more similar IMHO than not.

If you go used, go CPO. If you test the Bimmers, consider testing the Audi's with the 2.7T or 4.2V8. You may find they are quite affordable and provide a huge bang for your buck.

But you'll have to overcome (here in the US) the status differences and the fact that the Bimmer, even if only a "bit" moreso, is a finer driving sheen!

Good luck.

shipo · May 2006

"My $.02. The 528 (if auto equipped) will seem pretty anemic power wise. Even with the stick (which is THE way to go) both of the 5 series above seem underpowered."

Hmmm, the 530i 5-Speed was, by BMW's own conservative numbers, able to sprint to 60 in less than seven seconds. A speed demon? No. Underpowered? Errr, I wouldn't say that either. Even the 528i 5-Speed was (once again by BMW's numbers) capable of getting to 60 in 7.1 (IIRC). That means that even without the drivetrain destroying clutch drops that the magazines use to test acceleration (and managed to achieve low to mid sixes for both cars), that the 528i should be about a seven second car to 60. Not "slow", but not a rocket either.

Regarding a car for Colorado, I might could well be tempted to look for an A6 2.7T as well given the advantage that the turbochargers (I believe that the 2.7T has two. Yes, no?) will provide at altitude. That having been said, my bet is that the 5er will probably be much cheaper to maintain (turbos ain't cheap) and probably get better fuel economy too.

jcd14:

I am of course playing Devil's advocate here as I am a fan of both cars, but with leanings toward the 5er with a stick. Mark on the other hand is an Audi fan who can also appreciate BMWs. What is the right car for you? Only you can best answer that question, preferrably after at least a couple of drives in each.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you do.

Best Regards,
Shipo

srfast · May 2006

doesn't feel underpowered to me. But what do I know. I've only been driving purpose built race cars in SCCA Club/Pro races for the past 10 years. Listen to Shipo. He speaks from experience.

Regards....JL

jcd14 · May 2006

Thanks to all for the input. I'll go drive some cars and see what makes sense price-wise as well.

All this input has been great. Jim

jcd14 · May 2006

I was thinking that the 540 was more expensive than the 528/530 to run and maintain.

Is that your take on it?

shipo · May 2006

"I was thinking that the 540 was more expensive than the 528/530 to run and maintain."

One word: "Yup!" ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

markcincinnati · May 2006

Our 3.0 stick shift X3 doesn't exactly feel underpowered, nor does my 3.2 A6 (6spd auto.) Both of these vehicles do "suffer" in the acceleration dept because they are burdened with about 200 pounds worth of AWD gear.

I have, as a somewhat new member to the BMW family been able to test several BMW's since March 2005. The 5's have been auto trans versions. The 530 with the 5 speed steptronic feels to my butt less enthusiastic than our 3.0 (225HP version) X3 6speed stick.

Back to back test drives of the Cadillac STS vs the '05 530 demonstrated (to me) the somewhat under powered "feeling" of the BMW vs the '06 STS V6.

Note: I do think something was amiss in this test, but I cannot tell you why -- the handling differences, which also favored the Caddy were "spun" by virtue of the fact that the STS was a full on sported up model and the 530i had tiny wheels and tires and the standard suspension. But the relatively low torque 3.0 of the time didn't help.

Subsequent drives of the new 3.0 -- 255HP -- demonstrated a much stronger engine, helped by the 6speed auto.

The Audi 2.7T is a bi-turbo model that achieves its full torque at about 1900 RPM. That torque figure started at 258 and rose to 280 by 2004.

The Audi 2.7T reached 100KPH in 6.0 seconds flat with the 6 speed manual and 6.4 seconds with the 5 speed tiptronic.

In SLINE trim the Audi has a sport suspension, sport trim and aero effects and 18" UPH tires and wheels.

The Audi needs to be SLINE to be considered a "better" competitor for the BMW's handling prowess (due in large measure to the BMW's nearly perfect 50 50 balance.)

The immediate torque, 25HP advantage and AWD may offset the BMW's balance, a little or a lot if you care about such things.

Perhaps the purist will go BMW, perhaps a pragmatic approach that is a bit quicker in a straight line, favors the Audi.

You decide.

div2 · May 2006

Even the 528i 5-Speed was (once again by BMW's numbers) capable of getting to 60 in 7.1 (IIRC). That means that even without the drivetrain destroying clutch drops that the magazines use to test acceleration (and managed to achieve low to mid sixes for both cars), that the 528i should be about a seven second car to 60. Not "slow", but not a rocket either.

I agree. I think we've been spoiled by the really quick cars that are now available. Having said all that, I still think most people couldn't tell the difference between a six second 0-60 run and a seven second run-without a stopwatch. My eleven year old still laughs about how I
demolished a Focus SVT with my wife's old 528iA at the stoplight grand prix; talk about "drivetrain destroying clutch drops", the SVT driver was also chirping the tires at each upshift. Boy, was he steamed. And his floozy girlfriend was none too happy either...

shipo · May 2006

"Note: I do think something was amiss in this test, but I cannot tell you why -- the handling differences, which also favored the Caddy were "spun" by virtue of the fact that the STS was a full on sported up model and the 530i had tiny wheels and tires and the standard suspension. But the relatively low torque 3.0 of the time didn't help.

Subsequent drives of the new 3.0 -- 255HP -- demonstrated a much stronger engine, helped by the 6speed auto."

Hmmm, I wonder...

Do you suppose they bought a lower powered (and much lower torqued) 525i and then glued a "30" in place of the "25" on the back? Inquiring minds want to know. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · May 2006

"Boy, was he steamed. And his floozy girlfriend was none too happy either..."

Hehe, that reminds me of the time I took an IS300 across 9th Avenue in NYC in our Dodge Caravan (I'd left the 530i at home as we were schlepping lots of stuff). The driver of the IS in question had been shoving his way past other cars in the gaps between parked cars on either side of 56th Street, torquing off many folks in the process. I was already stopped at 9th Avenue when he pulled up next to me in the parking lane.

I can only assume that he assumed that an old green Caravan wouldn't be much of a challenge, however, when the light turned green that 3.8 liter mill under the hood was called upon for every thing it had. Turns out I didn't need anywhere near that much as I easily beat him to the one lane slot between the parked cars. He immediately tucked in behind me and then slalomed back and forth looking for a place to cut around me. I of course would just ease the Green Monster from side to side, just to keep him honest. ;-)

Funny thing, there happened to be a police officer directing traffic (preventing "block the box" kind of stuff) at either 8th or Broadway (can't remember) who was watching this, and as I pulled up behind the cars stopped at that light the officer calmly walked back to the IS and kindly motioned him over to yet another gap between parked cars. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

ontop · May 2006

I think we've been spoiled by the really quick cars that are now available

Yup. Even a Hyundai Sonata LX can outrun a 530 for half the price. The 'ultimate driving machine'? That moniker seems a little dated. A top of the line Camry now has 265 hp.

div2 · May 2006

Even a Hyundai Sonata LX can outrun a 530 for half the price.

Thanks for the heads-up! I'm calling the Hyundai dealer first thing in the morning. And if that falls through I'll check out a Camry! You know, you just can't beat FWD Asian transportation appliances for true driving pleasure...

meateater · May 2006

I'm calling the Hyundai dealer first thing in the morning. And if that falls through I'll check out a Camry! You know, you just can't beat FWD Asian transportation appliances for true driving pleasure

You might want to do that and join the crowd. People are discovering the lack of straight line performance of BMWs and opting for Gs, TLs, and Avalons and pocketing the cash. Oh but wait - they won't get that Autobahn experience of overpaying for moderate performance. To get that you gotta pay what? $75K for an M5?

shipo · May 2006

Yeesh, a wheezy Sonata outrunning a 530i? Geez, some people will believe anything.

A Camry? In a straight line it might actually be close, then again some roads (at least where I live) have some curves. Bye, bye Camry!

div2 · May 2006

My three favorite 5er "Street Eliminator" Stories:

1. 1988: Redneck in an early 80's Z28 tries to keep up with my 1973 Bavaria 3.0(the 5er's direct ancestor); I hammer him in the twisties but when the road straightens out he really puts his foot into it to catch me. Problem is, I know the road has two huge frost heaves located @500' from the last corner. Apparently he doesn't. My Bavaria glides over the buckled pavement at 80+, but when Bowtie Boy hits them his front end bottoms out and his front crossmember and oil pan dig into the pavement creating a beautiful shower of sparks. Twice. The last time I saw Z man he was s-l-o-w-l-y pulling over to the shoulder.

2. 1990: Carload of headbangers in a 1970 SS396 Chevelle decide to challenge my 1987 535is at a light. I pull ahead by two car lengths before I have to slow for the next light. They decide to turn off at the next side street...

3. Summer 2003(OK, this isn't a 5er story, but it's too good to leave out :P): Jag XJS convertible cuts in front of my Club Sport as I'm taking an entrance ramp on to I-64. The driver is a textbook example of Mid-Life Crisis Man: comb-over hair, gold chains, and wrap-around sun glasses. His companion is a flashy blonde trophy wife/girlfriend/bimbo. The guy simply cannot stand for me to pass him, so the faster I go, the faster he goes. I settle in to a cruising speed of 85, trusting in my V1 and the fact that the Jag is serving as a "rabbit" in front of me. After several miles I notice the Jag is starting to smoke a bit. I speed up so-of course-the Jag speeds up. More smoke. I catch a whiff of antifreeze. This is just too good, so I turn up the wick a bit more; I can't believe the idiot hasn't noticed any problem. Oh well, I continue to push him up to about 95. At that point, the old Jag has had enough; clouds of steam suddenly billow out from under and around the hood. The sled finally pulls over to the emergency strip. My Club Sport now has a film of coolant covering the windshield, but it was worth it...

div2 · May 2006

Yeesh, a wheezy Sonata outrunning a 530i? Geez, some people will believe anything.

A Camry? In a straight line it might actually be close, then again some roads (at least where I live) have some curves. Bye, bye Camry!

The wanna-BMWs are back! Yes, nothing gets my automotive juices flowing like a FWD V6 Korean econobox. Mmmmmm...

hpowders · May 2006

Uhh...pardon me but isn't that veering off line when accelerating quickly in the Avalon and Camry called "tourque steer?"

jimmy81 · May 2006

Uhh...pardon me but isn't that veering off line when accelerating quickly in the Avalon and Camry called "tourque steer?"

Well Mr Wizard, torque steer only is an issue when you're "steering". Got it. Like when the ole fogey Avalon steers in front of the 530 after leaving him at the last light. And then steers into the bank to deposit the money he saved over the 530. 300 hp vs. what, 225? Do the math.

BMW's way overrated.....

booyahcramer · May 2006

A little defensive here? When someone points out a $45000 BMW with 220 hp is lacking solid acceleration that many mid-priced Asian sedans have they're labeled a troll, eh. Well the emperor has no clothes. And yes, a Sonata LX has 236 hp and is faster than a 530. An effin Hyundai!

Its probably time BMW got with the hp program that even a Camry now has.

div2 · May 2006

Another big advantage that the Asian transport modules have is the large number of enthusiasts who autocross and track them on a regular basis. Plus the huge tuner support. And of course there's all those "Best Sports Sedan" awards the Camry and Sonata have picked up.

shipo · May 2006

Dude, it's always a good idea to make sure the brain is in gear before engaging the mouth (or the fingers in this case). First off, for whatever reason, BMWs have historically been much faster than the numbers on paper would otherwise indicate. Like it or don't. Second, the 530i has 255 hp, not 220. In fact, I cannot remember a 530i model ever having 220 hp. Maybe the old V8 version from the early 1990s?

As far as calling y'all Trolls, yup, that's what y'all are. Descending upon a dedicated forum and bashing the car in said forum is VERY Trollish behavior. I would expect the same treatment if I was to start posting on the Sonata forum claiming that it is nothing but an overpriced spam can. Now, if this was a comparison forum, then all bets are off of course.

As a final comment, BMWs have NEVER been all about horsepower. There have been times when they have evolved to the point where they were near the leading edge, however, I cannot remember any time in history when any non-M BMW was a class leader as far as horsepower is concerned. When the Trollish elements of the driving public finally get that through their heads I sincerely hope their incessant need to bash will evaporate.

Best Regards,
Shipo

div2 · May 2006

Well said! If someone is driving what they consider to be a superior automobile, why do they feel the need to justify it in forums dedicated to other marques? To paraphrase a friend of mine, I seriously doubt that there are any 5er owners who lie awake at night wondering if they should have bought a Hyundai or Toyota...

hpowders · May 2006

Why do you bother posting here?
Your comments are totally absurd and have no basis whatsoever in fact.
Just because you are miserable, why come over here and make ridiculous claims?
Go tell it on the mountain in the Toyota forums instead of embarrassing yourself here.
Your post is totally laughable!!

hpowders · May 2006

As Shipo correctly points out, BMW's have never been about the HP.
You are completely missing the point.
It's about the incredible balance and performance rivaled only by more expensive vehicles.
When I am driving on the interstate and I have to make a quick emergency maneuver, it's the BMW that will make it safely, not the Camry or bloated brother, the (ugh!) Avalon.
BMW's are relative bargains for what they are.

breld · May 2006

I just happened upon this thread since it showed up on the "front page" of the forums, and have thoroughly enjoyed reading the posts from the folks who are so knowledgable about the 5-series (and other BMWs). So, I thought I'd take advantage of the expertise on this forum and ask for some advice.

I drive a TSX now, and would like to replace it with a larger, AWD car (or wagon). After several months of lusting after the E90, I finally decided that it was just too small for my needs, and have moved on to the 5-series (as well as others in its class). So, I've entertained thoughts of what are probably considered the "usual suspects" - M35x, RL, GS300 awd, A6. I am, however, very drawn to the 5-series.

Since I entered this with a 3-series budget in mind, these cars are a bit of a stretch, and I've started looking at the used market. Obviously, there's not a ton of inventory out there on these newer models, but they're starting to trickle in.

With all that said, here are my questions/considerations:

1) Any apprehension I have with the BMW relates to reliability - I've owned almost exclusively Japanese brands (Honda, Acura, Toyota, Infiniti). My thought is that with going with a 2006 or newer 5-series (to get the AWD) alleviates some of this concern, with 3 model years under their belt?

2) From looking at Autotrader and other sources, it seems to me the wagon is depreciating much quicker than the sedan - I assume due to the lower demand for the wagon? Since I like the functionality of the wagon, this could work out well for me.

3) I've always had manual trannies on my car. I'm strongly considering going to an auto for this purchase for a couple of reasons: a) part of me thinks the auto fits the character of the 5-series (i.e., I wouldn't consider an auto in a 3-series) and b) if I'm looking to the used market, I'm thinking it's gonna be extremely difficult to find a manual. Now, I know this is a personal decision, but anyone else make that move from a pretty die-hard manual trannie person to an auto?

4) Any other advice based on my situation?

Sorry for the long post; thanks for any insight.

meateater · May 2006

My .02.

I was interested in a 06 325 or 330. Dealer didn't have a 330 I could test drive, so I drove the 325. Decent car, kinda slow, but a little small for me. So I asked about the 5 series. They had a 525 to drive. And it has the same measly 215 hp engine in it as the 325!

Wow - what a deal! And I'm German and have been strongly considering a BMW. What a letdown. Didn't see how the $50000 for the 530 and 255hp was the answer.

shipo · May 2006

So, let me get this straight, you're slamming all BMWs after one test drive? In a 325i (automatic?) no less. Yeesh! For the sake of your credibility let's hope that your test drive was at the very least over night and covered one hundred miles or better.

Best Regards,
Shipo

hpowders · May 2006

I had 2 325's.
Now I have a $60k 4.4 liter 325 hp 32-valve V-8 545.
By Jove that is the answer, and I'm not even German.

laurenxesq · May 2006

Hi jccssc.

I just leased an 06 330, I'm in CA. Am also experiencing high pitch noise when driving above 80 mph. The dealer's technician test drove with me and I was able to duplicate the same noise while I was driving. Dealer now refuse to repair, stating they will not break the law by driving above the legal speed limit to duplicate the noise defect. Please share with me how your BMW dealership repaired your vehicle & how did they over come the driving above 80 experience. Thank you.

cmr530i · May 2006

Oooh. I love your answer! Wish I could do the same.
Here is the answer for me: I have an Accord for when I must behave on the road, and my 530 for when I want a heart thumping driving experience.

goodegg · May 2006

I had 2 325's

So you had a 650....

The V8 5s are nice, but after seeing life on the Autobahn, Mercedes is calling my name.

nyccarguy · May 2006

To answer some of your questions and put your mind to rest about BMW reliability:

My Mom has an '05 530iA that she leased in December '04 with a little over 20,000 miles on it. It has been to the dealer exactly once for her 1st service. BTW I'm actually considering buying her car when the lease is up in a few years.

My Dad has an '04 X5 3.0iA that he leased in February '04 with close to 48,000 miles on it. It has only been back to the dealership for 2 scheduled maintenance trips (The 3rd is coming tomorrow) and once for a front brake caliper that locked up on him. The only problem he has is that the rear hatch keeps popping open intermittently.

If you've got a TSX that's a stick, check out a 5er in a stick. Manual transmission BMWs are very rewarding to drive.

As far as switching from Japanese brands, DO IT! BMW not only gives you a full 4 year/50K warranty, but includes scheduled maintenance as well. I have a HOnda Prelude which is very reliable, but I've got to have the oil changed every 4K miles, replaced the clutch at 52K miles (now at 67K and going strong).

sorter · May 2006

Go tell it on the mountain in the Toyota forums instead of embarrassing yourself here.
Your post is totally laughable!!

I disagree. I like Jimmy's post. the BMW HP do need to catch up. Why can't the BMW has more powerful engine than a Camry that cost 1/3 of the money?

I think it is the lack of technology for Engine Performance. BMW is paying the most of fuel consumption federal fine in any car company. Again, that is due to the lack of technology for Fuel Efficiency. It is working with GM and Chysler for a Hybrid! come on, where is the standard? where is the German pride!!!!

hpowders · May 2006

The 530i is a good ride. Its engine is actually more refined than the 545's V-8.

hpowders · May 2006

Huh? Except for their gas-guzzling SUV's, BMW engines are models of fuel efficiency.
My 545 V-8 gives me 21 mpg on average-60% highway, 40% city which is much better than the Infiniti M V-6!

The 3 series will give me 25mpg.

Where's the fuel inefficiency?

shipo · May 2006

Tell the truth, English isn't your first language. Right? :confuse:

I'm baffled by your post. BMWs recent engines (say since the late 1990s) have proven to be some of the most efficient ever made at any given power rating. Take both of their recent 3.0 liter I6 engines as an example. If you compare the 330i against say the G35, the 330i is more than a match for the G35 around a track (although not in straight line acceleration, which is only one metric), and at the same time able to deliver real world steady state highway fuel economy over 30 MPG. I've never even heard a G35 owner claim as much as 25.

In my case, my 530i was consistently able to eek out between 30 and 32 mpg during my frequent runs between New Hampshire and NYC, which by the way, isn't exactly Cruise Control territory.

Regarding Hybrids. Puleeze! That's a still-born technology if I've ever seen one. My bet is that BMW is pretending to pursue hybrid technology for political reasons. My hope is that they (or any of the other German manufacturers for that matter) never produce even a single hybrid car.

Said another way, the BMW 330d is capable of well over 40 mpg and still delivers very good performance. Why would anybody want a porky hybrid slug-mobile when wonderful driving machines like the 330d, 535d and E320 CDI are already being mass produced and simply waiting for the U.S.A. to get its ULSD act together? I sure as hell don't.

Best Regards,
Shipo

markcincinnati · May 2006

Here's some advice: 2006 525xi stick's -- can be found, but difficult.

This particular car WITH the stick shift will very likely satisfy many of your wants and nullify most of your concerns.

Theses models are subvented (the lease prices are low, that is.)

You can nearly have your cake and eat it too.

Prior year's 5's are NOT offered with AWD.

The M35x is a sweet car, but probably still going to be more money even now than the above suggestion. And, it is ONLY 5spd auto.

The A6 is only auto, but I love mine -- would TODAY rather have the 5er in X drive format with a stick. Rather have the Audi with the auto though.

In your situation, I would probably work on the 525xi w/stick as my first tactic.

markcincinnati · May 2006

. . .the Horsepower War.

All of the Germans do, for whatever reason, seem to lag behind the Americans and the Japanese in HP. Hmmm, after two Bimmers and 28 Audis, THEY ALWAYS HAVE.

Yet, time and time again, "nothing satisfies, like beef."

The German cars in a broad statement, I will admit, are frequently less powerful than what might be considered ($) the competition; but, they perform in a way that is more dynamic and far more satisfying.

The Infinit M's "get it." But even they don't quite "have it" (but they are close.)

An Avalon may well (it is) be more powerful than a 5 with a 6 cylinder engine.

If that is all you want, go get it. You probably won't get many takers here on the notion that the Camry or Avalon, et al, can compete with a 5 series (or to carry the flags, A6 or E class) -- the Germans, despite some lower hp numbers are all about performance.

This is not to stick my head in the sand and deny they do need at least 10% more under the bonnet, at any one time, to keep fighting the "War."

The monthly (US) sales figures for this class of car are posted over on the LPS forum regularly. The top two are Germans. The bottom one is Japanese.

If voting with dollars counts for anything, you make the call. I didn't see the 5, the E and the Avalon on the same list. HP or not, it just isn't the same no matter how much you may wish it were. :shades: :surprise:

erickpl · May 2006

WOAH!

I drove an M5 with the V10 and SMG, and I'm not talking about a drive down the main street in town.

That thing is just ridiculously fast, and I didn't even have the M button pressed! In a stretch of asphalt no longer than a football field and a half, we got to 80+ mph right before having to use the brakes for a sharp left that faded into a gradual sweep.

Here's a pic of the car I'm talking about here, for those who haven't seen one.

I think I want an M5, but with 3 pedals. SMG was nice enough, but I would prefer 3 pedals with that kind of power.

My wife had test driven a 530i previously and was not too happy with it (I suspect it was the color choice of white outside and grey inside with the metal trim vs wood). But the M5 was incredible, save the red interior (blah). If she didn't need 4 doors and our retirement fund, I'd love to get an M6.

BTW, the Z4 M roadster is a blast to drive too, and as fast or faster. There is just NO practical use for a Z4 M roadster. But man, is it a kick in the pants to drive (in manual trim too!)

-Paul

shipo · May 2006

Hey Paul, I've often enjoyed some of your driving pleasures in a vicarious kind of way, and this is no exception. Thank for the B-Day present. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

erickpl · May 2006

Thanks.

I don't auto-x like brave or div do, but I sure do have fun when I get a chance to open em up in a safe environment.

Happy Birthday!

-Paul

cmr530i · May 2006

Happy B-Day, Shipo!

sdg380 · May 2006

With all these posts about claimed horsepower, I'm surprised that nobody pointed out that when the SAE recently called for more stringent testing for HP ratings, the bulk of the companies that ended up down-grading their ratings were Japanese!

Being familiar with Japanese bikes, I'm long since used to optimistic dry weights, optimistic speedometers, and optimistic tachometers. There's always speculation as to where these numbers come from, but the SAE beef concerned what accessories were to be driven by an engine when measuring its output. Alternator? Water pump? Radiator fan? A/C? We should all know that the above items collectively account for dozens of "parasitic" hp, except that its pretty hard to drive without most of them.

Since I don't know that many of us are intimately familiar with just how the different OEM's actually measure the hp, I wouldn't be overly impressed by numbers which might be "optimistic", but would instead focus on real world measures, such as heads-up 0-60 and 1/4 miles times, and comments by testers who (consistently) say that "BMW's seem to get the most from their ponies". With bikes, the bike rags now strap them to a certified dyno, set them on calibrated scale, and then run them through the quarter, which is normalized for altitude and pressure. Until the car rags do this, too, all these claimed HP numbers are just that, claimed.

I'm not saying that the Japanese cars don't offer a lot for the money, they frequently do, but there's a reason many of us willing to pony up considerably more for a German ride, and there's a reason such cars have a market, notwithstanding any supposed HP deficiency.

ctl · May 2006

It is a competitive world out there... looking at it from one aspect. Anyone with $25K can buy a ~270HP family sedan (BTW, it is all SAE so no "claim" no more). that objectively beat a BMW530 on a straight line. No argument about that. But there are certainly more to a car than that. To the least, what does people with $50K do, to make a statement, or simply wanting better? A $5 street watch and $5K rolax can tell time equally well, life is just much more complicated.

I will simply put, they (530, E, A6) are better cars, and they cost $50K). Are they worth the difference? don't go there, no need, least of all just whisper, don't argue

socalguy61 · May 2006

IMO, it's ridiculous to compare a 5 series with a Camry.

Reported horsepower alone is a poor and simplistic measurement. Horsepower to the wheels is different than horsepower out of the back of the engine. Further, that doesn't even take into consideration the WEIGHT of the vehicle, the distribution of that weight, etc, etc, etc, which are EXTREMELY important factors.

A friend of mine had told me many years ago (when I commented to him about the seemingly low reported HP numbers of BMW) that "BMW horsepower is unlike anyone else's". I didn't know what he meant until I drove one. My new '07 530i is now "in transit", and I can't wait!

Of course, perhaps I should by a Daihatsu Charade and "pocket the cash". After all, it was car of the year in Malaysia! Naaaaaaa, I'll stick with the Bimmer.

That being said, sales figures don't tell the story of which is a better car either. McDonald's may be the world's biggest restaurant, but I'm pretty sure they aren't the finest.

What if we were all given a free car to drive. A Camry or a 530i? I don't think we'd see too many Toyotas on the road.

Happy birthday shipo. We took up a collection and we bought an M5 for you. Now if I could just find the fob.....

shipo · May 2006

Thanks gang. [Blush]

Regarding the $25,000 car (V6 Camry?) beating a 530i in a straight line, a few thoughts occur to me:

1) Who cares? If you want the BMW to go faster, just opt for the V8 or failing that, the V10.
2) Comparably equipped (or at least as comparably as possible), the Camry ain't no $25,000 car.
3) If straight line acceleration is the be all to end all in determining which sedan is the best, then wouldn't something like a Neon SRT4 or WRX STi be considered the best? After all, both of them will handily destroy the 530i and the V6 Camry in straight line acceleration (and any number of other metrics as well).

When I got my 530i I made the decision not to opt for the V8 version. Why? Well, even though I love power and speed, and even though I'm sure I would have very much enjoyed the intoxicating power of the larger engine, I realistically decided that the 530i was fast enough and satisfying enough. The truth is that after I picked it up in Munich I was able to allow it to stretch its legs on the Autobahn and even the lowly 3.0 liter engine was easily able to accelerate up to the top speed governor.

During the three years that I had it I cannot remember even a single time when I really and truly wished for the larger mill.

Best Regards,
Shipo

div2 · May 2006

Thanks for the driving impressions; I think the new M5 is a magnificent car, but I still prefer the E28. It's a bit more visceral and it makes me feel almost hard-wired into the whole driving experience. That said, I toyed with the idea of ordering a new M Coupe, but instead I've decided to pick up an older E46 330i manual-which will free up a few more dollars for the M1 acquisition fund. Don't they say that pleasure postponed is pleasure intensified?

div2 · May 2006

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHIPO!!!

May you never find yourself at the wheel of a FWD Asian Econo-Drone...

nyccarguy · May 2006

Paul -- That M5 is a phenomenal looking car. I've seen quite a few (considering it is a limited production car) since its introduction. The exhause note is simply intoxicating. I'm glad at least one of us nuts on the board here actually got to drive one:)

Happy Birthday Shipo!

rich545 · May 2006

First of all, there's a lot more the HP that goes into what a car costs. The Camry is like those generic cans of vegetables you see in the supermarket. Bland. Secondly, drive the cars and research them more thouroughly before you post because the 2007 Camry V6 is not faster than the 2007 530i. Both make 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds. Now, you don't really think that the Camry's suspension can handle the turns like the 530's either do you? Do you really think Honda spends a much to produce a Camry as BMW does to produce a 5 Series? HP is only one part of performance. Most of the time it isn't even the most important part.

BMW 5-Series Sedans

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles