BMW 5-Series Sedans

530bmw · July 2002

Thanks for your input on this. I, too, suspect that it could be the road not the brake that causes the car to pull occasionally. So far it only happens when I drive on a black top road, it feels as it is dipping instead of pulling as described by you. I will pay closer attention when it happens the next time. Your theory makes sense about the fact that if it is something other than the road itself it would pull every time I hit the brake, not occasionally.

You said "If you have the sport package, the front tires are fairly wide (235's), and will pull into road grooves and dips especially as you slow down and the car's forward momentum vanishes". Please explain in more detail for me so I can understand it better. No, it has nothing to do with your writing, my brain lost a few screws at the moment.

snagiel · July 2002

What I meant is, wider tires have a greater tendency to be affected by road imperfections, since they cover more real estate. When you're moving along at speed (e.g. 45 mph), you won't notice minor potholes and grooves (or if you do, they'll feel like small bumps). But at slow speeds (as you brake towards a stoplight, for example), if a front tire falls into a groove in the road or hits the side of a small bump, you'll feel the car pull in a that direction.

But, these are usually sharp and distinct monentary pulls, not a gradual fade to one side as you brake.

john01 · July 2002

Drove home from Wurzburg last night, through 200+ miles of downpour. The rest were ok, but the rain was really coming down. You have to give the credit to the road engineers here. I saw perhaps 4 or 5 puddles the whole way. Water just drains away from the road surface. I slowed down and thought I was doing about 40 to 50, but I was still at 75. No hydroplaning. Not sure if that is due to the tires (Contisports), or the road, but whatever it was, the car was quite stable. I remember hydroplaning around 65 in the US with Goodyear RSAs.

snagiel · July 2002

If there's been a sudden and noticeable decline in sound quality, I'd guess it might be either a loosened wire that has rendered one (or both) of the subs useless, or perhaps a blown cone.

But more likely, you've just become accustomed to the system and have grown dissatisfied with it. Audio quality has a large subjective component to it, and can vary widely on the type of music you listen to (e.g. treble-laden vocals sound much better on the system than earth-shaking rap songs). If you want to keep things "OEM," you can spring for the upgraded subs from the M5 audio option (see bmwtips.com), but if you really want to recreate symphony hall in your cabin, be prepared to spend some money and head over to an experienced mobile audio shop in your town.

colt007 · July 2002

snagiel, congrats man! Gettin hitched was one of the smartest things I ever did! I also visit Puerto Rico regularly & felt your pain when reading of your rental. Went to the beach (Cero Gordo - north side) on Mrs. Colt's b'day & they stole the airbags out of our rental (Mitsubishi Mirage)! Yes, another horrible rental car but as you said when you drive nirvana, nothing else will do.

Colt.

colt007 · July 2002

john01 - glad to hear you drive was safe. I also have the Contisports & didn't understand why they're so maligned. They feel excellent in wet or dry (especially dry!).

Colt.

john01 · July 2002

So fare I only have 6100 miles on it, but some people commented how it started going south after 6~7,000 miles. Increased noise, less grip, etc. So far I can't say I either like it or dislike it. I guess I will find out.

Love driving on the autobahn, and the car, too. I will have to go drive some more.

plasticmd · July 2002

Anyone with any ideas on hands free cell phone kit that will work with 530i. Totally not worth paying for BMW cell phone/kit/voice set. Over 2K and then return it after 3 yrs (if you're leasing). Besides you get a Timeport which will be obsolete very soon. I'd like to set up something that will look good and function well. Anyone with any ideas??

PlasticMD

snagiel · July 2002

If, as your sig suggests, you're a plastic surgeon, you probably harbor the dexterity involved in a DIY job. Check out a couple of the articles at bmwtips.com. The more elaborate ones do pipe the sound through the car speakers, but I don't think I've seen any that make full integration using the voice-activated dialing the OEM option has.

sambeam · July 2002

Guys:

I'm thinking if I buy a car for EuroDelivery
through a dealer in ANOTHER state, and do all
paperwork thru them.

1) Since it is shipped to US, can I get it shipped to my LOCAL dealer or other place

OR it HAS TO GO to the delaer who ordered it?

2) Else I guess cross-country shipping will cost
at least $1000 isn't it? Anyone done
something like shipping or the Euro Delivery to anotehr delaer type deal?

thanks.

sambeam · July 2002

I called BMW USA and they said :
" We do NOT have ANY info on specs. We do NOT
have any prices from Germany. we do NOT know
when we will get. It can be late December!"

One of the local dealer says:
" Earliest we will know is September and that's when he can place order! So car can be ready in Nov-Dec timeframe! He can NOT take orders
right now bcoz they will START building the cars ONLY in Sept."

I am so surprised that everyone's info is
different and why they make such a big deal about
info being available!!!

bluewater5 · July 2002

I had promised more on my driving experiences in Europe during my ED pickup, but I have been catching up on many things after vacation. I have been driving an old Subaru wagon, not a 3-series or other upscale car, so I have a different incoming perspective than some, but I have driven various rentals and other cars.

I fully enjoyed nearly all aspects of the 5-speed, non-SP 530. The one surprise was how the steering felt. It seemed precise and responsive, but it did not have the "feel" I expected. After getting back in my Subaru, I realized that I am used to feeling every small bump in the steering wheel. I did not get this feedback in the 530.

Any comments? Would the SP make a difference? Am I just too used to an economy car feel?

My 530 should hit port July 23 or 24, so I hope to see it early August. More later.

nyca · July 2002

What do you want to know about the 2003 specs, I think I've posted the answer to that question 3 times now. No information on prices however.

habitat1 · July 2002

It is my understanding that the car needs to be shipped back to either the ordering dealer or to BMW's factory in Spartansburg. Where I think they let you take it for a spin on their test track.

Why would you need to ship it cross country? I looked at getting a ED car through a dealer about 350 miles away who would do it at $1,200 over ED invoice. I would have driven it back myself. But cross country???

platypus · July 2002

You can buy a ED car from any dealer you want (out-of-state) and have it shipped to a local dealer. This will require some legwork on the part of your salesperson, but it is not that difficult. It will also entail a nominal "courtesy delivery" fee that usually ranges between $250-$500. The fee is set by the local dealer who actually delivers your car.

I can speak to this because this is what I did a year ago. I was living in Texas and ordered a ED car from a dealer in NJ. I gave my salesperson a list of 4-6 dealers that were within a couple hours drive from my place where I would be willing to pick up the car. He contacted them, and one of them agreed to do the courtesy delivery for $250. This was well worth it given the savings I gained from buying from the NJ dealer.

You'll have to evaluate if it makes sense in your case.

shipo · July 2002

Call my salesman Mike Weber at Park Avenue BMW in Maywood, NJ at 201-843-7900. Mike is offering all takers the same deal he gave me, which is $1,500 over ED invoice. So far, two folks (that I know of) here in the TownHall have taken him up on that offer, including an individual from Colorado. Said Colorado resident did in fact opt for the "Courtesy Delivery" that Platypus spoke of, and Mike was more than happy to set it up.

Good luck, let us know what happens.

Best Regards,
Shipo

snagiel · July 2002

Yes, I detected some loss of steering feel between the non-sport and the SP-equipped 530, but it's not a huge difference (whereas body roll and overall handling precision ARE greatly enhanced with the sport package).

The only Subaru I've ever driven was a Legacy Outback, which had good steering but nowhere near as telepathic as my 530's. What model do you have?

In general, a lighter car with a rack-and-pinion layout with minimal (or no) power assistance will offer the greatest road feel (or "feedback"). Anyone who's driven a go-cart will know what I mean. On the other extreme, a heavy vehicle with a huge power-boosted recirculating ball steering setup will offer minimal road feel (e.g. a Kenworth tractor trailer).

In addition, the 5-series' refinement, noise and vibration dampening, and well-controlled ride conspire to make the car at first feel more detached from the driver than it really is. But over the past 7 months since I've had my 530, I've grown increasingly impressed with the car's capabilities, and it seems to me the steering wheel communicates surface imperfections and traction conditions perfectly.

nyca · July 2002

Here is a comprehensive link for all BMW models:

http://www.bmwnation.com/news/2002/020719_a.html

chesdin4 · July 2002

I, too, ordered an ED 530 then picked it up out of state. (It made a nice little vacation.)

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would a dealer do an ED courtesy delivery for a distant dealer? Wouldn't they rather sell the car itself? (Presumably the buyer would have given them the chance, since they're close by.) It doesn't come out of their allocation, so why not cut a deal and get the sale?

I guess this is a rhetorical question... my local dealer (Kelly BMW in Columbus, OH) wouldn't BUDGE on ED price. Maybe they don't see the bigger picture, here...!

platypus · July 2002

Often wondered that myself. I generally don't like fooling around and playing the pricing game with dealers. Through a web referral, I had made contact with a NJ dealer who had offered $1300 over ED invoice on an '01 330i. When I contacted the salesperson, he was happy to give me the same deal - no haggling required - very straight forward. Didn't try giving me some story about it being a one-off deal and how he couldn't do it again.

Anyway, then I contacted my local dealers, and asked them what they could do for me. Checked with three different dealers. Each of them said that buying through ED was great since I could save about 7% off MSRP. Told them I already knew that, and asked them what they could do for me that was better than the published ED MSRP. That's when I got a bunch of ifs, ands, buts, and general sales BS. Told them that they would lose my business if they wouldn't give me a straight-up deal up-front. Since none of them could deliver, and were insistent on talk and playing games, I simply decided to go elsewhere.

Funny thing is that when I went to pick up the car, the saleswoman asked me why I didn't do the deal with them. Wake up darlin! Ya had yer chance and blew it!

cateusebio · July 2002

I've been lurking on this board for a while, thanks to everyone for your great input.

chesdin4, platypus, and others:

I've been thinking of doing what you've done, doing ED through a non-local dealer. Can you comment on your experiences when you needed service from your local dealers? Do they treat you poorly because you didn't buy from them? This is the only thing that concerns me about doing ED through a non-local dealer.

Thanks.

platypus · July 2002

My experience has been positive. In '97, I was living in CA and bought a Z3 from a local dealer. Moved to TX in '98, and had no issues with my TX dealer. Even got a loaner car, although they had a chintzy program set up with Enterprise where you would typically get a Corrola or Hyundai Accent.

When I bought my 330 through ED last year, the local TX dealers were using the service argument as a reason to buy from them, "hinting" that I would receive preferential treatment. I knew I was moving back to CA at the time, and told them that their argument carried no weight with me.

Since I've been back in CA, my local dealer has treated me just like any other customer. I can get a loaner car, but I have to make the appointment early.

I would give your local dealer a chance to make the sale. There is probably some premium worth paying to them, but only you can decide what that premium is. In the end, don't be afraid to go elsewhere!

musafir · July 2002

Here's my experience at my dealership: INSKIP in Rhode Island. Test drove the 530i,
slaes person : What do you think.
Myself: Love it.
SP: What can we do for you
M: This what I wann't to pay (basically 1500 over European invoice).
SP: Let me talk to my manager two minutes go by, SP comes back and says it's yours.

Had a great experience at both my dealership here and taking the ED on 7/3/02. Also, I payed only 2 and a half weeks in advance.

Musafir

bluewater5 · July 2002

Thanks for the response. It is a Subaru Loyale wagon with on-demand 4WD. It is smaller and has a firmer ride than a Legacy.

Another factor could be that German roads have fewer bumps to feel than American ones. I will have a better comparison when I drive the same roads I drive every day.

I certainly enjoyed the car while I had it. With more experience, I will no doubt become more used to a larger, refined sedan than something closer to the go-cart scale.

chesdin2 · July 2002

No difference in service from the local dealer, even though I didn't buy from them. I've been in twice, once for an oil change (oops: "Inspection I"), and for the fan recall. Great service both times, including ease of getting an appointment.

I can think of at least two things that will keep them honest: a) the mfr's service surveys that go out to the customer asking how things went, and b) service business is quite the profit center for any dealer, for warranty work as well as customer-pay.

Finally, I think all the dealer can see in the system is where the car was purchased. Who's to say you didn't actually LIVE elsewhere when you bought the car...!

bmw323is · July 2002

I once worked for a large car dealership (not BMW) as the business manager/controller. Believe me, they want your warranty business no matter where you bought the car. The service and parts managers/departments survive on warranty work. The line of bull they might feed you in the sales department about poor service if you buy elsewhere is nonsense. In some cases, a loaner car may not be offered, but I suspect that could be negotiated as well. 9 out of 10 buyers will never look past one or two dealers to buy and they know it, so they hold their price, even on ED.

hssahu · July 2002

Hi all,
Just wanted to share my experience so far with my
new 530i 5-speed (non-sport). I have had the car for about two weeks now and driven close to 900 miles. The very first impression (I had written earlier) was a solid, sturdy much bigger (than my integra) car. Also, little demanding manyal tranny with a pretty long clutch.

Then, in the meantime, I have gotten used to these and have taken it to some really nice, hilly, winding roads in bay area (posted speed limits ranging from 25 mph to 55 mph). I wouldn't say, I have driven the car "hard" yet!

But, yes, now I am starting to see the real "bmw" :
- As much big and heavy as the car feels normally, that much nimble and agile it feels, on those winding roads. It is really unbelievable, unless you experience it yourself
- Enough passing power in practically ANY rpm
- I find the steering extremely precise - (with just enough assist)
- And of course, cruising at 80/90 is only the most natural thing that can happen to the car - without a bit of shakeing or vibration.

And, then not to mention about the comfort of the seats (I have lumbar) - I never feel the journey, I only enjoy it!

Even though I had lot of second thoughts about having the SP (after I had put the order without it), I have not really missed it yet. May be once I cross the break-in and drive much more harder, I will feel the need for the SP.

Nevertheless, it's a great experience to drive this car - Wanted to share it in this forum. I really enjoy reading the viewpoints expressed here.

thanks

hssahu · July 2002

Hi,
After posting all the great things about my experience so far, here are couple of things which I feel were not as "fully refined" as everything else in the car:
- The transmission shift from 2nd-to-3rd does NOT feel as smooth and refined as that from let's say 3rd-to-4th. Now, is this what everybody feels? I showed it to the dealer. The service person took for a test drive and said it is absolutely normal and smooth!

- Very occasionally, while pressing the clutch, I hear a minute clicking noise, about half way through. When I went to the dealer this morning, (as murphy's law suggests), it wasn't there!

Do let me know if you have similar view / experiences.

Thanks.

snagiel · July 2002

I'm not sure what the clicking sound on the clutch pedal is, but you're right that the manually shifting the 5-series--despite the stick's precision and clutch's linearity--is not always the smoothest and most intuitive system. I graduated from a VW Passat 1.8T (employing the Audi A4 clutch), and that was much smoother and easier to manipulate. I find the 1-2 shift on my 530i the most difficult to nail smoothly (especially when accelerating hard), and many others have commented on this as well. Rest assured, it's normal. Several guys on the bimmer.org forums have reported success by drilling out or removing the "clutch delay valve" (CDV), but I'm personally skeptical about rendering a factory clutch-life-protecting device useless.

hssahu · July 2002

Hi Snagiel,
Thanks for the response. I think, the clutch clicking noise comes only when I happen to press it, such that there is slightly "sidewise" pressure (instead of being fully vertical).

Otherwise, yes, I am getting used to the transmission. It's fun!

Even, I would not like to make any changes to the factory setting of the clutch...

riez · July 2002

Check out the latest issue of Bimmer magazine (October 2002). Nice cover story on test of 530i 5-speed manual sedan. Plus a nice article comparing 3 Euro-spec 5 Series Touring (520iT, 530iT, and 540iT). Bimmer considers the 530i sedan and touring the "best compromise between comfort and sport in the 5 Series range, and it's also a great family vehicle."

The story on the Euro-spec cars shows the 9 engine choices for Euro-spec 5 Series. Too bad USA has so few choices!

2.2L I-6 (520i)
2.0L I-6 diesel (520d)
2.5L I-6 (525i)
2.5L I-6 diesel (525d)
3.0L I-6 (530i)
3.0L I-6 diesel (530d)
3.5L (535i)
4.4L V-8 (540i)
4.9L V-8 (M5)

chesdin4 · July 2002

platypus · July 2002

I would bet that the 520d is a real dog.

My first car was a 1972 MBZ 220D (auto tranny) that was a hand-me down from the folks. It had 220k miles and was on its second engine. Built like a tank, it accelerated like a turtle. Although I never timed it, I would guess that 0-60 was somewhere in the 12-14 second range.

We used to call it the "downhill car." You'd have to be going downhill for it to reach speed.

One thing I loved about it though - its rigidity. Once I was rear-ended by a Toyota 4x4. I had a slight indentation on the trunk and no visible damage to the rear bumper. The Toyota's front bumper, OTOH, was severly bent and was left dangling from the truck.

john01 · July 2002

I rented E220 Diesel for my friends a few months back when they were visiting. we drove about 1300 miles with 4 adults and luggages for a week. It does take time to get to speed, especially from standing still. There is a lag from stepping on the gas to actually feeling the acceleration, about 2 seconds. HOwever, from that point on, it moves. Once on the autobahn, it ran all day long at 110 - 120 mph. It is very quiet inside, despite sounding like a semi from outside.

I can only imgaine what it would be like with a 300 diesel. 1.9 TDI in Golf and Passat, and A4 are the ones flying down on the autobahn.

riez · July 2002

According to the Bimmer magazine article, the 1951 cc engine reportedly puts out 136 HP at 4,000 RPMs and a whopping 202 lb-ft of torque at a mere 1,750 RPMs. Wondering if it is turbo-diesel. Also, just noticed that the spec sheet shows this being a 4-cyl engine. BMW wisely sells it only with manual transmission.

While 520d will go 0-62 mph in 10.6 seconds, it gets 39 mpg on Euro-cycle. 128 mph top speed. If fuel was $4-6/gallon as it can be in Europe, the 520d makes a lot of sense. The 530d gets only 32.6 mpg and the 525d gets 34.1 mpg.

The 520d is also the "greenest engine". Chart shows the 520d engine as having the lowest C02 emissions (grams/km) of all 9 engines

john01 · July 2002

530d makes 193 bhp and 302 ft-lbs stock. The owner of website, www.bmw530.com simply had his ECU reprogrammed and now has 220 bhp and 376 ft-lbs! That is more torque that the M5. Even in stock form, 530d easily pulls away from my 530i on the autobahn, not to mention the fuel economy. I would have gotten the 530d if it was available in the US. Shame.

riez · July 2002

Bimmer magazine specs lists engine output at 194 HP and 296 lb-ft torque. 143 mph top speed. 32.6 mpg. 0-62 mph in 8.9 seconds with manual and 9.1 seconds with automatic.

jonnyj · July 2002

I drove a manual SP 530 today. Fantastic car in almost every way. It was a little quiet, however.

I was surprised at how long the throws were on the shift. IMHO, It takes away from the tight feel of the car

bmw323is · July 2002

Last week I attended O'fest in Keystone, CO. BMW had several cars there for test driving. You simply signed up, got in and took the vehicle to the top of Loveland pass (12,000 feet) and back. The trip took about 30 minutes, and ohhh what a road to test drive a BMW! My regular ride is a 2000 323i sport 5 speed.

I first drove a 530i sport/auto. It was very nice. Much more powerful than my car especially at lower RPM's. Handling was a bit less crisp, especially at turn in, but still very impressive. Nice fat steering wheel felt nice in my hands. Seat bolsters were tighter on the ribs but softer on the thighs compared to the 3's sport seats. More headroom, even with a sunroof. My first hard driving experience with the step. In sport mode it held the gears nicely when letting off at 5 - 6,000 rpm. I'm still a manual transmission guy, but the step was very nice for an auto.

Then I drove the X5 4.4i. In the first big set of turns I kind of forgot I was in an SUV and had all of the electronic gizmos kicking in. It wasn't a 530 or even a 323, but it did handle nicely once I slowed down a bit. The all-season Michelins certainly were not the Z rated rubber I'm used to. I expected more raw power from the 4.4L V8, but I'm sure the SUV is geared differently than a sedan and it's certainly much heavier. For near the same money, I'd take a 330ci and a Toyota RAV 4 for the snow days.

Great fun, great cars - thanks BMW!

rhino246 · July 2002

Little help? My pricerange and style preferences have narrowed my next used car purchase down to these two models. Specifically, have found a '95 525i with 110K miles on it. Any concerns with this engine/drivetrain (besides the obvious that it's got 110K on it)? Are they especially prone to problems at this point?

Other choice (for now) is '95 530i with 90K on it. I have heard something about how the 8-cyl. engines in this model year (or was it '94?) were having problems with cracking cylinder sleeves or something. True? Wrong model/year? Urban myth?

I'm not an enthusiast or anything; is the gas mileage/performance tradeoff worth it for the 530i? Anything else I should know about these models for this year that you know of? Thanks!

hssahu · July 2002

Hi,
I am a little confused about the tire pressures on my 530i. There are two columns in the owner's manual page - one with four passengers and one with 5 passengers (and cargo).
For the 225/55R16 tires on my (non-sport) 530i,
the first column (with 4 passengers) is empty. Does that mean that I need to follow the second column's number always (33 psi on front and 41 psi on the rear).

Would appreciate any clarifications.

thanks.

john01 · July 2002

E34 530i that you mentioned did have problems with engine block. It was made of Nikasil, which was susceptible to breakdown due to high sulfur content in gasoline sold in the US. BMW extended the warranty to 100,000 miles or 6 years. I would definitely check to make sure the car you are looking for has had this replaced.

www.530i.org has detailed information on how to tell whether the car has the replacement block or not, and etc.

snagiel · July 2002

Yeah, the graphics in the driver's manual are somewhat misleading. You can look at the B-pillar plate (adjacent to your seat when the door is open) for a better breakdown. Basically, you should keep it at 33/41 (f/r) at most times. If you're going on an extended trip and have the car loaded with people and heavy luggage, you can bring it down to 29/33.

snagiel · July 2002

Yes, it is a quiet car, compared with, say, the 330i. It's very welcome on long drives, believe me. But if you want a louder reminder of what you're driving, just take a handy screwdriver and spear it through your muffler.

As for the throws, many have installed the Rogue Engineering short shifter kit, sometimes along with the weighted selector rod.

rhino246 · July 2002

Is this a good car? The few reviews on Edmunds aren't so hot. I need help, hurry! A deal I need to decide on quickly!

snagiel · July 2002

Yes, it's a good car, but '97 was the E39's first year and was less reliable than later models. In general, buying a used car in a hurry isn't a good idea. You'll probably overlook things in the excitement of finding a good deal. I also suggest getting a CPO or other comprehensively-warrantied used BMW.

rlman · July 2002

I'm a new 525i owner. My question is about the maintenance. If I understand it correctly, the service indicator light is going to tell you when to take it in for maintenance, whether it is for an oil change or the inspection service. You can't just take it in and get a free service without the indication. I plan to put on maybe 20-25k miles total in the first three years. With that light amount of driving, will an Inspection Service I even be due before the three year free maintenace is complete?

royalred · July 2002

I was also confused about this and posted the same question some months back. Based on the feedback I received from the members here I now am using the pressures recommended for light loads outside of US (29 front/33 rear). I feel the ride is a bit better with this.

I was not able to get any explanation why BMW recommends this only for outside of US.

div2 · July 2002

I bought a CPO 1997 528iA last March and have been very pleased with it. The previous owner and the CPO warranty took care of a few problems and the only thing I've had to fix recently was the trunk lock actuator- $41 for the upgraded replacement and five minutes in the driveway took care of it. The 1997s are moving out of CPO range so I'd consider a 1998-on model if you want a bit more security.

snagiel · July 2002

The first inspection light will probably come on around 15k miles (depending on driving style and other factors, can vary by several thousand miles), assuming there's no other problems with the car. Some others are skeptical of such long breaks between service visits, and have chosen to change their own oil and/or filter more often (at their expense). If you want to write it off as cheap peace of mind, go ahead. But I tend to trust BMW engineers as knowing what they're doing, so I just wait.

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