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Comments
Katie
Again, I'm back from a long TH hiatus so please excuse me if this point has been made. The fact that a 6 year old design only placed 1 point behind a brand new model is a credit to BMW in and of itself. The 530iA mostly got dogged for things being "old" or "dated." The E320 was put down some for the artificial brake feel, steering response, and accelerator and feeling too "computery." The New E is a gorgeous car, but if the cash (or lease payments for that matter) were mine, I'd go for the 530i (minus the A of course.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
never take 5, always go 101 or 1 just to enjoy the trip, we never go to So Cal in any hurry. Hope this helps.
San Francisco is not particularly car friendly and parking is generally brutal. Maybe even get lucky and get a ding in it.
So I would DEFINITELY bring the 530.
Impossible for me to imagine that a 530 owner would pass on the chance to drive the CA coastline. Road that was made to be driven in a fun car. It's what your car dreams about every day while stuck going 25 on the 405. The only way in the world I'd pass on that would be if you could find a friend to loan you the M3 convertible for the drive.
So, release the hounds, drive like the wind...and use the hotel's overnight valet.
Enjoy Ess Eff.
(Now, whether they should pay for the service is the additional issue.)
BTW - do you guys think a V8 LS sport could hang with a base 540iA (w/o the sport package)?
I did not make a big stink of the fact that they would not give me a loaner (they did offer a courtesy ride home) because I wanted to save my fight for the bigger issue, that being the cost of the clutch.
I may have to give then the go ahead whether they agree to pay for it or not and then work out the issue of who is responsible later, because I must have the car back as soon as possible since starting tomorrow I will have to rent a car.
Any additional responses to the questions I posted on my earlier post from this evening would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
The strongest argument for a defect might be in your description of what happened: a clutch doesn't just abruptly burn out and leave you stranded. When a clutch starts to go, it's a gradual process that lasts for several thousand miles. You notice it first when accelerating hard, and you feel it taking progressively longer to engage. Good luck, and keep us informed.
-murray
I also agree with snagiel, the clutch wear should have been noticable. Hell, if you were burning it up in only 14k miles, you should have smelled something. I would absolutely stay on this one until you get a free replacement from BMW, and an accurate explanation of what happened.
As for loaner cars, many BMW dealers have similar policies: you only get a loaner if you buy the car from them. My local dealer is like that and since we didn't buy either of our BMWs from him, we don't get loaners. Only once has my wife gotten our local dealer to provide her a loaner, but that was on an issue that they didn't fix right the first time. I personally think this loaner policy is a huge oversight on BMW NA's part in this market segment. Infiniti, Lexus, and others have been providing loaners for years. Doesn't BMW know people move? It is something I always bring up, politely, whenever I'm contacted for a post-service survey. If more people (everyone?) did, maybe BMW would change?
Here are some published 0-60 mph figures:
540i6 (2.81:1 final drive):
Car & Driver, Aug 1998: 5.5 seconds
Car & Driver, April 1998: 5.4 at 40,000 miles & 5.5 when new
Car & Driver, March 1997: 5.4
Motor Trend, May 1999: 5.6
Motor Trend, March 1998: 5.5
Motor Trend, Feb 1997: 5.6
540ia Sport (3.15:1 final drive):
Car & Driver, Sep 2001: 5.7 seconds
Car & Driver, Nov 1998: 6.1
Road & Track, Dec 1999: 6.6 (high altitude)
540ia non-Sport (2.81:1 final drive):
Car & Driver, Dec 1996: 6.3 seconds
Motor Trend, Feb 1997: 6.2
Road & Track, Feb 1998: 5.9
Road & Track, Sep 1996: 6.7
Even if you have to agree to pay to get the repair done, have them look at all the parts (make sure they just didn't throw away the used parts). Apparently certain wear pattern can be seen on an abused clutch that is different from the failure caused by defective parts. Search for "clutch" on bmwm5.com and you will find hundreds of posts on this. Good luck.
I just think Lincoln deserves a lot of credit for the performance of the new LS and I think it's very competitive with the current 5 series offerings in the under $45K price range. If Lincoln does come out with the rumoured 400 hp LS then it should get even more interesting. And yes, I know more hp is on the way for the 5 series but at what price?
It will never win any car comparison tests no matter how it performs - too much press bias. But I dare any current or potential 5 series owner to take a test drive. It's a lot better than you think.
That said, I wouldn't give up the chance to drive in the Bay area either. Drive across the GG bridge, and then drive to Muir Woods National Monument to see the redwoods and drive a winding stretch of coast road straight out of a commercial. Indeed, many of the commercials you'll see are filmed on Marin county roads skirting Mount Tamalpais. I'm living in Texas now, and I miss those drives almost more than the city itself.
As a point of comparison, the LS V8 Premium Sport has a very similar content level to the car that I ultimately ordered, however, being that I am one of those weird three pedal bigots, I was forced to compare the LS V8 Auto to a 530i 5-Speed, one big mark against the LS in my book. Then there was the performance issue, and according to my "Butt Dyno", IF the LS was faster, it was JUST faster, barely. Even though the LS does in fact have more power and torque, it also has a slushbox to deal with, and it is ~250 pounds heavier. Finally, there is the price to consider, I picked up my car for somewhere in the neighborhood of $42,000 (Euro Delivery) taxes and title included, which is about $4,000 less than the LS V8 Premium Sport. So, from my perspective, which car is the better value? Easy, the 530i.
Best Regards,
Shipo
If you want a stick then BMW wins - no contest. Without a European market Lincoln can't cost justify a manual. Although there's still a slight possibility for the 400 hp LS to get a stick - but it's very slight since the 6-spd ZF automatic is available off the shelf and will handle the torque.
Assuming the bean counters don't cancel it altogether.
Unless your 530i had every option box checked (including navigation) then the comparable LS street price would have been closer to $40K. Did the $42K include the cost of the trip and shipping back to the US? If it does then I agree that's a good deal.
All of this said, extra power in the LS would still not be enough to entice me to buy it.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Kind of interesting, there was a discussion on this board about 2 weeks ago about clutches and modifying the CDV. I was tempted, but now I'm glad I did not. If the dealer would find out about the modification, you know want they would immediately conclude regarding the premature clutch wear.
Coincidentally, I have two vehicle surveys on my desk that I had intended to fill out, one by J.D. Power about vehicle satisfaction after a year and the other about service satisfaction. If I had sent them out last week, I would have rated both very high. Now, the jury is still out. I know that the dealer is very concerned about its satisfaction ratings and possibly BMWNA also. I think I'll wait and use the surveys as extra leverage (not that one survey out of thousands is really going to make a difference). I just hope that this situation does not tarnish my so far great BMW experience.
I called the BMW 800 number. The rep explained that if the dealer determined that it was from abuse, then there is nothing they could do. I asked for them to talk to the dealer and maybe send a rep out to look at the parts. It does not look good at this point. To me, a clutch should not burn out after just 14K mostly freeway miles, especially since I have been driving stick for so long and having clutches last over 100K easy.
The question is, where do I go from here?
Best Regards,
Shipo
What justifies the $8K price difference?
Size? No, the LS has more interior room.
Acceleration? Nope. The LS is quicker.
Handling? Wrong again. The LS is better on the skidpad and slalom and emergency lane change.
Ride comfort? Possibly. I've heard mixed reports on this one.
Amenities? No.
Braking? Yes. Advantage BMW on this one although $75 worth of Porterfield pads would make it a dead heat.
Maintenance? slight advantage to BMW (4 yrs vs. 3 yrs)
Reliability? No. The latest JD Power survey on long term reliability has Lincoln way ahead of BMW.
You can't justify it based on objective criteria. You'd have to spend $61K on a 540iA sport to outperform it. Remember we're talking about auto equipped sport sedans. If you want a high performance stick then I agree it's no contest - there is no competition (yet).
Let's look at it a different way - for $44K (street price) I can get a fully loaded LS V8 Premium Sport. For the same price I can get a not quite fully loaded 525iA sport (no navigation).
If someone can justify the 525iA on anything other than "perceived prestige" or styling preferences then let's hear it.
Please note I'm not trying to say it's a better car - only that the 2003 model is finally a worthy competitor for a lot less money and I was hoping someone would be objective enough to agree.
As for the Grandma comment, I could put a name tag on the kind of people that I think drive BMWs but I won't stoop to that level.
BMW doesn't go around winning every item on every comparo. They are not all first in acceleration, skidpad, slalom etc. However when you take the total package in account they cannot be beat. They offer a range of performance and luxury options for you the consumer.
So is the LS a competitor, yes? To say the 5 series has no competition is not really the way it is. In fact they are all competitors vying for your dollars.
Can't wait to see what is in store with the next generation E60 5 Series. Not sure about the saying. If at first you hit a home run....
A business associate sold his 1991 Acura Legend with 230k miles on it and got a 2001 Lincoln LS two years ago. In a little over 18 months and 30k miles, it was into the dealership more than his Legend was in 10 years. I don't know all the details, but it was not pretty. Once he came in smelling like he took a bath at the local Exxon gas pumps. His fuel system was discharging fumes into the cabin of the car and he had nearly passed out on his drive to work.
Clearly, he got a lemon and it's not fair to judge Ford/Lincoln by this one bad apple. But when enough was enough, he decided to dump the car three months ago. The best he could get on trade in or private sale was $19,000. That's $10-12k less than a comparably equiped 530i would have been worth.
You can pitch the value of a Lincoln LS over a 530i, but when a 2 year old one is worth less than 50% of what it sold for new, the "market" isn't buying your pitch.
I bought a 2000 BMW 540 couple of weeks ago.
What a blast to drive!
Original manf. warranty will expire
on 11/30/03. Can anyone point to
a good deal on extended warranty?
It has low miles. I can live with 7 years/100k
miles. Dealer quoted $3000 with $100 deductable!
Please help!
Thanks
Imran
I forgot to mention that I live
in California. I can't buy warranty
online due to state law. Does it mean
I've to get it through a dealer?
Imran
We can purse that subject on the Comparisons board if anyone wishes to fire it up.
I think we briefly had one of those that archived itself due to inactivity, but certainly we can try again if anyone would like.
Thanks.
Resale value on the LS right now sucks due to the deep discounts on the 02s. But that's only a problem if you're selling the car - I'm not so I could care less.
Sorry Pat - I'm outta here.
They (Ford) did a nice job on the interior, the leather is nice, the sound system is nice, the lines of the car are nice. For an American company I think they hit the mark closer than the CTS and closer than the G35. Even though this is not the price range for the G35, but some Infiniti folks seems to think it's a 5-beater. For those who don't want to spend the money on a German vehicle and want to buy American, this is the ticket.
But there is something oh-so-smooth about the 5 series. It is a classic car that has aged well. I would like to take a picture of the contenders in this segment - hold these pictures for 6 years and then we can all look back and probably have a good laugh.
This is a BMW forum but sometimes a reminder or two that there is competition and what the competition is about never hurts.
Good luck,
Spyderred,
How do I know? Well, According to a rep that I deal with from BMW, there's 5 of them running around NJ and 1 in Atlanta at some Zone office.
If they do bring it in.. I think it'd sell like hotcakes if it was marketed properly!
For those of you unfamiliar.. 3.0L Turbodiesel engine. Sells, comparably equipped, for about $3K less than a 530i in the UK.
Manual:
0-60 7.6
50-75mph in 4th: 6.9 secs
Top Speed: 144mph
City MPG: 25-28
Hwy Mpg: 40-45 (US Gals, UK figure on Imperial Gallons is over 50)
I was driving one of these back when I was spending a ton of time in the UK. The car is very refined, smooth and quiet. Idle is quiet. Highway power feels better than a 540i. no kidding.
Car feels like a freight train with the torque.
If they do it, this will be interesting...
Bill
Also thinking that in most European countries diesel fuel is cheaper than gasoline. Which isn't necessarily true in USA. And diesel is far more available throughout Europe. In my small town, we have 4 gas stations. Only one sells diesel. And it isn't open 24/7.
I ordered this option on my 2003 525. The dealer has stated that I must sign some paperwork before they activate the bags.
Sounds strange. Any thoughts?
Really a legal liability issue. BMW and its dealers fearful that small kids will sit in back. They hope (pray?) that the disclaimer and waiver you sign will send the liability your way. (Though they know nice trial lawyers in Mississippi and other frivolous lawsuit friendly states will still likely sue anyway.) Kids might rest heads and other body parts directly against or near the rear side airbags. Then in case of accident....
My car was originally leased by a company that used it to ferry adults.
At least the MY 2003 5 Series comes standard with rear head protection. But that is separate from the lower rear side airbags.
I've had reliability issues in the past w/ a '94 Volvo & '86 Accord when they were pretty new & got it handled. With the Volvo the evaporator went out Just after the warranty expired. Naturally the service advisor said they could'nt do anything...I pushed him to call Volvo NA. My stmt. was that my family has had cars w/ A/C since 1953 (growing up in FLA & in the car business) & NEVER had the evaporator go out....& I want it handled!! He called & said they'd split the cost w/ me. I called called Volvo & pushed the point & they readily agreed to pay the whole thing & THAT IS WHAT THEY'D TOLD THE DEALER!!! Issue handled, (I go to an independent now).
With Honda the brake pads went out in only 30K mi. which we'd never had on another car before & CU showed that as a repair issue. The dealer gave the 'normal wear & tear' line. The district rep said the same thing. We found Honda has some kind of binding arbitration w/ the better business bureau. When we mentioned that & that we would NOT let it go. They fixed it & the next pads lasted well over 100K! (w/ subsequent Mercedes & Volvo 30K on soft brake pads seems normal--BMW too??)
I'd push it like hell if I were you, a clutch out in 14K is clearly a defect given you're a responsible adult & experienced w/ manual trans. Even if the car were demoed by a lunatic before you bought it...as others have stated, it shouldn't go out.
You of course will let them know you're in touch w/ 100s of BMW drivers & POTENTIAL owners & surely they (BMW NA) will want to see you post a happy outcome. You'd hate to have to go to this BB & all others you can find & relentlessly let people know of their defective product &and poor customer service!! You'll get it handled. jeff
I own a 2000 5 series and I love it. I just placed an order for an 03 MB 500, I still not sure, but for what I've seen, MB has closed the gap in performance (not the same yet) certainly interior quality has been better in the past and I think still continues to be better than Barvarian's. Does any one know where a 5 series 04 pictures can be seen I already checked www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm but the pictures are not very good.