BMW 5-Series Sedans

ezaircon4jc · March 2003

If I remember French 1 from my high school days (before there were computers), "good luck" in French is BON chance.

shipo · March 2003

Now I am really confused. ;-)

Well, I guess I am going to have to call my little brother (used to live in Paris and Aix-en-Province) and ask.

More later.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · March 2003

Little Shipo says that "Bonne" is feminine, and that when you say "Good Luck" in French, you say "Bon Chance". Wow, I guess I got it right the first try. What luck! ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

rick530 · March 2003

Tks, Shipo for the info. No, I'm not looking at wheels from a 7, I've looked on Tires.com and found some, but wasn't sure they'd fit.

By the way, I have the slate green/gray and love this color. I get compliments all the time, especially from women.

sirtiger · March 2003

DZUBA, I got my 530ia in late January 03. I paid around 1700 over invoice. Keep in mind, that I was very partcular with the model & options that I wanted...it had to have certain options and color which severely limited what the sales rep could find. He found one that was due to be transported to another state. So I had to wait close to 4 weeks for the car swap. Surprisingly, negotiating wasn't so painful as I would normally would have imagined. I went to 4 different dealers since I didn't click well with some of them. oh yes, I live in the NYC area.....

For those with new BMWs, when did you all get your first oil change????

The reccommended change of oil are quite high mileage which I don't trust. I now have close to 900 miles and I am considering changing it. I know it probably will not be coverage by the schedules maintence; I will know I kept my new car in super condition....which is one reason I believe my old 90 camry is so smooooooth at 260,000+ miles...

snagiel · March 2003

I think many people are uncomfortable waiting for the engine computer because, for decades, manufacturers (and oil companies) have preached the 3,000 mile rule of thumb. However, with the sophisticated engines (constructed of alloy purities and dimensional tolerances unheard-of even 15 years ago) and remarkable improvements in synthetic oil blends over the years, I have no doubt these engines can last the manufacturer/computer-recommended oil change intervals. As I've argued before, changing oil is cheap insurance, and I can't conceive why BMW would artificially extend the intervals in the hopes of saving some money in the short term if doing so jeopardizes the engines, costing it far more in the long term in warranty engine costs, lower resale values, and a bruised reputation.

My oil service indicator lit up for the first time at 14,400 miles, 14 months into my ownership. The engine never skipped a beat during those first 14k miles, and there was no discernable difference after the oil change.

Nevertheless, many insist on changing their oil more frequently, and doing so is harmful only to the wallet.

dabimmer · March 2003

Two weeks ago I posted on this august board that I took in my 2001 530 i to have the oil service even though there were still two green lights showing. The car was 2 years and 2 months old at the time and had approx 12,500 miles on it. I checked the oil frequently and thought I would change it after one year no matter what the mileage was, every time I inspected the dip stick the oil was clean and felt slippery to the touch and I let it go and let it
go. I asked the technician who changed the oil
exactly what condition the oil was and he told me it was nice and clean and the color was perfect just like the synthetic oil should be. No problems. It runs just like before which is to say Just Great. From now on I will change it at least once a year since in my case mileage is not the issue.

bmwdoug · March 2003

I am looking at the following three cars: (1) 2001 530i black on black, sport, premium package, premium, all goodies except navigation. But, it has every other option installed including rear air bags. The mileage is 6700, from a private owner. The price is 39500.

(2) 2001 530i black on gray, sport premium package, all other options installed except navigation and rear air bags. The miles are 20670. It is from a BMW Dealer and is a CPO. The price is $40200.

(3) 2001 Silver on Gray, sport premium package, all options installed except navigation and rear air bags. It is from a private party. Miles are 28000. The price is $33000.

All opinions welcome. Thank you.

cbgb1975 · March 2003

BMW picks up one nite hotel stay and meals during your delivery. You are responsible for whatever it costs to travel there;If you fly or drive in to airport, they will pick you up and escort you to hotel. I drove a one way rental with a friend since I live next door in North Carolina.

sergeym · March 2003

Had it changed at 7,500 miles. The car was 6 month old at that time. Did it just for peace in mind. Paid $57 (540) for oil/filter only. Nothing else. I did feel that car ran better after that but It could be my imagination. The service light came up recently at 13,600 miles.

carnaught · March 2003

on your listed choices #1 and 2 are two high for two year old cars, IMO.

jb_shin · March 2003

One of my co-workers in Frankfurt told me a story about a couple who owned a VW Golf. Apparently they bought the car and drove for 100,000+ km without ever changing the oil! They simply filled it up when it was low. Somehow the story was on the news and they took apart the engine, and it did not look any worse than any other on the road that had proper oil change. I am not sure if it was a diesel or not, and if that would make any difference.

When I took our 530 in for a oil change at 1 year mark, the adviser (German dealer) looked at me as if I were an idiot and kept pointing to the service light which still has 2 bars left.

shipo · March 2003

The one variable regarding the Golf in question is oil consumption. The typical 4-Banger VW engine uses quite a bit of oil, and as such, said owners were constantly replenishing the necessary additives and such. That said, the filter must have been something of a mess.

Best Regards,
Shipo

riez · March 2003

Latest issue of Roundel (3/03) has a "computer-enhanced" photo that supposedly is the next 5 Series. They opine that it should reduce anxiety that Bangle has messed it up like the new 7 Series.

Roundel also states "BMW has pushed back the 5 Series sedan's launch to spring 2004, making it unlikely to be seen at this year's Frankfurt auto show."

riez · March 2003

div2... Don't worry. The E39 platform is a fantastic car. But it is nearly the end of its life. Can't wait to see the E60 come out in MY2004. From what is being reported, should be a heck of a car. More than enough to overwhelm its competitors, including the LS.

As Roundel mentions in its current issue: While it will be a bit "wider, higher, and have a longer wheelbase" (so interior room should improve), "its overall length remains unchanged" (so it will still be nicely sized overall), and it "uses liberal amounts of aluminum in its front subframe to reduce weight on the front axle, thus improving steering response and handling". Sounds like win-win.

And everyone seems to be reporting that its 2nd generation iDrive is much simpler, with fewer functions and easier to use! Yeah.

So I can't wait till BMW brings it on and the car magazines do their usual comparison tests.

sirtiger · March 2003

Its a shame b/c I really love the styling of the current E39.

I just purchased a new 530i this recent Jan. b/c I didn't want to miss out of this well aged beauty. I was originally going to purchase it in Nov/Dec 03. It is trully a fun car to drive.

blueox2 · March 2003

I am in the process of buying my first BMW. I test drove a mint condition (11K miles) 2001 BMW 530i with premium sport package. The car handled great of course but I was very surprised at the amount of road noise coming from the low profile tires. Does anyone know if this is normal or if BMW used especially noisy tires in 2001? The noise was most apparent at low speeds but fairly loud even on the highway. I loved the sporty look of the low profile tires and 17 inch wheels but I'm not sure I can live with that much road noise. Are there quieter low profile tires I could replace the existing ones with? Any idea what that would cost? Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom.

shipo · March 2003

I have heard complaints of tire noise from folks who had Continental tires come with their SP equipped cars. It seems that the noise starts sometime after the 7K mile mark, and continues to worsen until the tires are replaced. I have read numerous theories about what causes the noise, however, I have not yet read anything convincing.

FWIW, I have Michelin Pilot-Primacy tires on my 2002 530i with the SP, and they are wonderfully quiet.

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueox2 · March 2003

Thanks for your (stunningly) fast reply to my query. How did we survive without the internet! Can you give me some additional details on your Michelin Pilot-Primacy tires? What do they cost? What is their life expectancy?

Thank you,
BlueOx2

shipo · March 2003

You can buy these tires from http://www.tirerack.com, and as it turns out, they are currently having a special on them. Their regular price is $256 per tire, and currently they are on sale for $194. Obviously these are not inexpensive tires, however, I think they are worth the price. Regarding longivity; I am guessing that I will get somewhere between 25 and 30 thousand miles on the set.

Keep us posted on what you do.

Best Regards,
Shipo

habitat1 · March 2003

Do you really think you will get 25-30k miles miles out of the Michelin's? That seems like quite a lot from a high performance tire that can't/shouldn't be rotated. I've been watching the tires on my Honda S2000, and am guessing that I will get 15-18k out of the rears and 20k out of the fronts. And I drive relatively conservatively (got 50k+ per set on my Maxima).

Also, how was your experience with Tire Rack?

dabimmer · March 2003

I,also, have Pilot Primacy's on my 2001 530 and have 12,800 mi on them. The front tires look brand new,the rears show slightly more wear, they have never been rotated. If I get 25K miles on them I will be very happy. The tires are very Good INMHO. Are they the best Grand Touring tires available, probably not. I do not notice any excessive noise and they do not tramline. If you read the Tire Rack reviews for this tire you get the impression it is not a good tire but they have been excellent for me and my way of driving. I have not personally ordered tires from Tire Rack but I did order some Dunlops for my sister's Bimmer and they were drop shipped to a local tire place near me and we took her car in and did the installation in under 45 minutes and the tires are great and she is very happy. I would definitely recommend them and will purchase through them for our two vehicles. The savings are substantial, she saved about $100 total over the same tires at a local tire dealer.

shipo · March 2003

I am guessing on the 25-30K, however, based upon the following items, it's probably a reasonably accurate estimate:

1) I had 40K miles on my previous 328i when I turned it in, on the original (un-rotated) tires. Said tires were Michelin MXV4 Energy Plus All-Season tires with a Tread Wear rating of 400, the fronts could have easily gone another 20K miles, while the rears had only 10-15K miles left. The Michelin Pilot-Primacy tires carry a Tread Wear rating of 220 (I'm not sure if this is a linear scale or not), and my understanding is that, based upon that rating, they should last at least half as long as the 400s, given similar driving characteristics.

2) When I took the Pilot-Primacys off last fall (so I could mount my winter tires), they looked practically brand new after 8K miles.

Regarding TireRack.com, I bought my winter Wheel/Tire combo from them, and I was very pleased with their professionalism. The price was right and they showed up when they said. I will use them again.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · March 2003

I did a little bit of snooping around, and I found that the most significant difference between the "Performance" Michelin Pilot-Sport tires and the "Luxury Performance" Michelin Pilot-Primacy tires is tire noise.

Will I buy the same tires when my current ones wear out? Depending upon what else is available then, probably.

Would I buy the same tires today if mine are somehow ruined? Yes.

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueox2 · March 2003

I spoke to my local tire dealer. He tells me that low profile tires vary in the amount of noise they produce but that they should never be loud. He suspects abnormal wear (feathering or cupping) due to poor alignment as the root cause. I'm relieved to hear that and Shipo's experience with the Michelin's because I really do like this 2001 530i. I plan to have the tires inspected. If they need to be replaced, I'll ask the seller to knock the price of the car down.

By the way the mechanic at my local tire place (a guy I know and trust) says that low profile tires SHOULD be rotated (indeed, more frequently than regular tires). Do Dabimmer and Habitat1 have information to the contrary?

blueox2 · March 2003

Shipo,

Which Pilot Primacy's do you have?

235/45R-17 94Y (which cost $195.14) or
235/45R-17 94W (which cost $269.92 from my local shop)

Both are speed rated at "greater than 169 mph"

Thanks,
BlueOx2

blueox2 · March 2003

Sorry to plaster the board, but I did have an important question for the group: Do people think Edmund's TMV pricing really represents a true market value? They say that it is based on "prices actually paid" for vehicles. How would they get that data for private party sales? I based my negotiations on the TMV and the seller of the BMW 530i I am currently looking at has agreed to accept the Edmund's TMV price for the car. Are we striking a fair deal here? Thanks to all.

habitat1 · March 2003

It is my understanding that BMW recommends against tire rotation on the 530i, even though the front and back tires are (I believe) the same size. On many other BMW "sport" models (330i, 540i, Z3/Z4, M3/5 etc.) the rear tires are wider and rotation is not even possible. Uni-directional / asymetrical tread pattern tires should never be switched side to side, since the tread will face the wrong direction.

Perhaps shipo or others can explain why BMW recommends against front to back rotation on the 530i (and non-sport 3-series) where the tire size is the same.

shipo · March 2003

Tire rating Primmer:

P=93 MPH
Q=99 MPH
S=112 MPH
T=118 MPH
U=124 MPH
H=130 MPH
V=149 MPH
W=168 MPH
Y=186 MPH
Z=149+ MPH

So, Tirerack essentially sells the "Y" or better tire for more than $70 less than your local dealer. Not too bad. ;-)

I just stumped down to the basement (yes, I still am in a walking cast :-/), and checked my tires. BMW mounts the "Y" rated tires as standard equipment. Hmmm, it think it is a tad unlikely that my 530i will ever see anything anywhere near 186. ;-)

Regarding tire rotation; I'll let "Click and Clack" take that one. Guys...

http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/2000/May/03.html

Best Regards,
Shipo

dabimmer · March 2003

BMW does not recommend the rotation of tires on the 530 by citing different outside tire WEAR patterns from same side of car front to back.I would think that if one wanted to do it , one would have to rotate at very short intervals, say like every 3000 miles. Is it worth it? I don't think so. To me, a tire that lasts 25,000 miles has more than done its work and deserves to be replaced. There is no better reward for new tires than those first couple of thousand miles on a new set of shoes. When it comes around for my car I would consider Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, Firestone Firehawk SZ50EP and Bridgestone Turanza LS-Z. Just my 2 pennies. If I decide to stay with the Primacy's that would be fine with me , it is a very Good tire.

bmwdoug · March 2003

I am looking at a 2001 530i with sport package and premimum package, but NO xenon lights. Are no xenon lights a deal breaker? The price of the car is $38500 and it is a CPO from a dealer with 20,000 miles. What do you think?

blueox2 · March 2003

bmwdoug,

The Edmunds TMV for a CPO 530i with sport premium is $38,673. If you believe, the Edmund's data you'd be paying less than the average price actually paid by other consumers if you pay $38500.

blueox

blueox2 · March 2003

Shipo,

Thanks for stumping for me to check your tires. I see that there is much to learn about these complex vehicles. Who would have imagined that tire selection and rotation would be so complicated. Anyhow, thanks for the insights.

BlueOx2

nyccarguy · March 2003

I had a misfortunate mishap with a 3/4" thick steel plate in the middle of the road covering an open manhole in The Bronx a few months ago that resulted in a cracked rim, popped tire, a bent rear stabalizer bar, bent right rear ball joint, and bent right rear lower control arm on my 2001 Prelude Type SH. What does this have to do with the tire rack on a BMW 5 series board you ask? The Prelude's 205/50 VR16 Bridegestone Potenza RE-92s (a rare size) were selling at local tire shops for anywhere between $185 & $258. The Tire Rack shipped me the same tire for $140 right to my store. Very painless. The sales people are not pushy and are extremely knowledgeable (think a company full of Shipos) and courteous. A very pleasant experience (buying a new tire that is).

shipo · March 2003

No problem, the closest I get to a BMW these days is looking at mine in the garage, and reading and writing about them here in the TownHall. I should be able to start driving mine when I get back from Taipei on the 17th, assuming that is, that I keep progressing over there (without the benefit of PT) like I am now.

In the meantime, I will have to enjoy all things BMW vicariously through y'all. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · March 2003

Dude! I'm blushing again. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

bmwdoug · March 2003

So, are you saying, in your opinion, the 2001 530i is the better deal? What about no Xenon lights? Not that big of deal?

habitat1 · March 2003

..I'm no going to resurect the whole ED debate again.

But, bmwdoug, I sure hope there are lot more potential used car buyers like you around in around 2005/6 if I decide to buy a fully loaded (Xenon included) brand new 2003 530i for about $43k. Even if I wouldn't get the "CPO" price, the thought that there are buyers out there (as evidenced by Edmund's TMV) willing to pay only $5-6k less for a two year old car than a new one is comforting. I wouldn't buy the 530i with the idea of selling it in 2 years, but it's nice to know that it could be done at minimal depreciation.

As for the lack of Xenon's being a deal killer, I would say that if you are prepared to pay that much for a used car, it should have exactly what you think is the essential equipment. Personally, I'd rather have a BMW 530i without Xenon's (without headlights, for that matter) than most other sedans with Xenon's.

carnaught · March 2003

Personally I've owned xenons and non-xenons and I'm not sure they're worth all the extra bucks. Yes they are better especially if you drive in/& around a lot of country or rural roads. Yes they are worth more, but the question is, will one recoup the premium one invests when it comes time to resale with their impending replacement. I think much of their hype has become a status symbol. Bottom line: I'd buy the car first and foremost based on the car itself. If it has the xenons, it's a bonus.

pap5 · March 2003

Yesterday, I finally got around to bringing my '01 530ia to the dealer for the software update that some have discussed here. The shop foreman said there were no bulletins that seemed to apply, but hooked it up to the computer anyway. Sure enough, there was new code to download. FWIW and for those who can make use of it, here are the part #s:

-Basic control module, old 7511570, new 7519308
-Programmed control module, old 7512670, new 7522354

The throttle response seems noticeably improved; the car seems livelier. Slowly, after a slipping transmission repair, faulty throttle module replacement, and now this upgrade, the drivetrain quality is catching up with the outstanding handling, steering, braking, etc. that the 530 SP offers.

Tires/Tire Rack -- To add my $.02 belatedly - When I removed the Pilot Primacies for the winter last December, they had about 17,000 miles on them. When I remount them next weekend (please, Lord!), I expect they'll be good for another 8K or so. They seem ideally suited to the character of the 530 SP - not ultimate performance tires by any means, but a fine 3-season balance of wet/dry performance, ride, noise, wear, etc.

bmwdoug/habitat - Agree with habitat that a new car bought through ED is the best overall value. You don't have to convince me, since I did it almost 2 years ago. However, for some, it just may not work. And a CPO 2001 has one very attractive advantage that even a new BMW can't match: Warranty coverage (after deductible) until 100,000 miles.

bmwdoug · March 2003

What do you folks think the best way to go on a 03 530i: Lease or Buy? With the new 04 coming out in about a year, depending on the source, is buying or leasing a 03 530i the better way to go?

blueox2 · March 2003

You state the price of new 2003 530i fully loaded is $43K. Actually, dealer invoice on an '03 530i with premium, sport, steptronic, and xenon is $44,110. MSRP is $48,170.

In regards to expected depreciation, check out the "True Cost to Own" feature on the Edmund's website after you price out a new vehicle. I found it very informative. You can see over a 5 year span how much a car will cost you in terms of depreciation, fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc.

shipo · March 2003

Personally, I love the look of the E39, the jury is still out regarding the E60. I would lease the 2003, and give your eyes a chance to get used to the E60 AND for BMW to work the bugs out of the new car. Then you can decide down the road if you want to keep the E39, or go for the newer design.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bmwdoug · March 2003

I have not seen any price close to $43,000 for a fully loaded new 03 530i. Where did you find that deal? I would jump all over that. And, Shipo thanks for your opinion on the current 5 series style.

bmwdoug · March 2003

I am looking for a 530i, sport package, premium package, XENON lights, in black with gray interior, would consider black interior, but prefer gray. I am looking for a 2001 or 2002 with low miles. I am ready and able to buy, just need to find the car. Thanks.

habitat1 · March 2003

I promised I wasn't going to start another ED (European Delivery) debate. It's not for everybody. But it is for me. Blueox: the car you specified with the MSRP of $48,170 and US invoice of $44,110 has an ED invoice of $41,335. I would pay exactly $42,835 ($1,500) over invoice to order that car from a local DC area dealer and pick it up in Munich.

That's not the car I would get, however. Mine will be a 5-speed with the premium hi-fi stereo, plus Xenon's, sport & premium packages. MSRP $48,095, US invoice $44,000, ED invoice $41,225, my price $42,725 ($42,425 if I'm lucky) + $1,000 trip budget going alone for 3 days 2 nights (unless I use frequent flier points).

Again, my point is not to ressurect the ED debate. I'm simply stating what I will be paying for the car and why it's nice to see that 2 year old ones are still worth over $35k.

On the "true cost to own", I find the calculations very "gross" approximations that really don't match my experience. My actual cost of ownership for an 8 year old Nissan Maxima with 135k miles has been significantly less than Edmunds estimate.

george94 · March 2003

BMWDoug, I was able to negotiate $1,500 over invoice here in boston area for 530, 5spd, SP and PP with Xenon. I am not going thru ED. My car is actually already made and on its way to boston. I heard about the advantages and savings via ED but decided to go locally. My dealer is 10 miles from my house. I believe you get your car faster this way - I custom ordered it and should have it within 6 weeks from the order date. So far, nothing has gone wrong yet..

riez · March 2003

bmwdoug... Before you go salivating about ED, you might want to take the time to cost out all the time, effort, hassles, expenses, etc. that ED has over a regular purchase. There are those who remain unconvinced that ED is a real savings. Get what you want & can afford. Negotiate hard. Look around at as many dealers as you can.

m1fuller · March 2003

hey,

I'm interested if anyone has installed an amplifier in a bmw with stock radio and DSP.

How does it sound?

Is it really worth it?

Thanks,
I own a 2003 BMW 530i with prem. sound/DSP

shipo · March 2003

Hmmm, 530i 5-Speed (Black Sapphire Metallic, Black Leather), PP, SP, Xenon and Premium Audio, sounds familiar. Oh yeah! That exact car is sitting in my garage right now. I guess great minds think along similar patterns. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

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