BMW 5-Series Sedans

carshopper46 · July 2003

I am with Shipo- find another dealer. If he can't sell a new model 5 with a manual when it first comes out, he shouldn't be in the auto sales business. He is trying to take advantage of you. Don't let him.

330iii · July 2003

I know it is too late for a Euro Delivery 530i since the factory closes in August and reopens in September to produce the E60,but was the 1.9 APR and or 4000 dollar incentive available for Munich pick up? 34785-4000=30785 base price?

habitat1 · July 2003

330iii:

I had the same question. According to my dealer, the $4,000 incentive was never available for ED. It did not come out until after they stopped production and/or were not taking any new build orders. I'm not sure about the 1.9% financing.

corkdsp1:

A "non-refundable" deposit of any amount cannot be legally binding unless it is a valid "two-party contract". Since the dealer cannot guarantee you an outside delivery date or even the price of the vehicle, there is no way the deposit would be deemed non-refundable in court. However, on the practical side, I agree with Shipo and would find another dealer. The fact that this one would even ask for a $2,500 non-refundable deposit not only shows ignorance of the law, but disregard for integrity and customer relations. I wouldn't give them my business.

shipo · July 2003

I haven't followed the current incentives too much as I am not currently in the market for a car. ;-) That said, habitat1 has always proven to be a great source of information, and it seems that he has already answered at least part of your question.

Regarding scheduling an ED for a 530i in E39 trim, I am not sure if the factory has stopped producing the E39 yet (something in the back of my head says that E39 production was stopped in June so BMW could start the re-tooling process). If it is still in production for the remainder of this month, there might still be a chance of you getting a car ready for an August or September ED trip. What you would have to do would be to find a dealer that has a car in the pipeline and not yet built, and then have them arrange to swap that car with the ED pool. Given the timing, even if the E39 is still being produced, my guess is that the chances of setting this up are very small, but it might be worth a try.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shinbone001 · July 2003

enjoyed your extensive post on my question regarding differences b/w 325 vs. 525
i won't be autocrossing even if i were to buy 325 but i feel as though i need to drive 3-series before i move up to 5-series... maybe it's a stupid reason but i don't want to be in my 40's or 50's and wanting to drive 3-series in retrospect... but then again, there seem to be so many good deals on 5 series(2003 that is) that it is really tempting...
well, guess i need to sleep on it and make the decision. : )

thanks.

sleepdoc

ryoken · July 2003

Don't worry about tomorrow yet. Get what you want to drive today, today. Wait until tomorrow to decide what you want to drive tomorrow.

hoopsref · July 2003

Great quote...who said that Yoda? or was it Yogi Berra...lol. Ya know like..."No one goes to that restaurant anymore because it is too crowded"

to 330iii: I can't remember if Shipo already said this but from I have read the 5er's are also more reliable (see Consumer Reports... fro what it's worth. I am in the same boat as you now, except I am in my late 40's already. When I 30, I had a BMW 528e. I was looking at the 3er's mainly on price issue and they seemed like they would be more fun to drive. I have not driven a 530iA yet, but I can't imagine it will be a let down. I still am concerned about the reliability after warranty as well as the trips to dealer even for the stuff that is covered. Closer dealer will be 20 minutes away, where as my Toyota dealer (which I only visit to get an oil change and a free donut) is 2 miles away from my office! My wife thinks I am absolutely out of mind ("What's your point honey?") getting rid of a reliable 2001 Camry at half the payments of the BMW, with a daily commute of 5 miles with a top speed of 40 mph (vrrooooom).
Is there any other confused old farts out there, or is this a bunch of young wild & crazy guys who still hair to blow in the wind?

warthog · July 2003

Yes, there are some old farts out here, but not confused (I think). I'm 55 and in March '03 traded my Chrysler 300M for a 530iA. Best car thing I ever did. I loved the Chrysler; I'm in lust with the BMW. I know about the 40 mph commute too, but this weekend I'm headed to the hills for some fun.

I can't help you with the 5 vs. 3 question, as I'm almost too tall for the 5 and the 3 is out of the question. Nevertheless, if you can swing the BMW price, lose the Camry (yawn).

driller2 · July 2003

I guess I'm almost an old fart at 48, but I just bought my first BMW , a 530ia with sport package. I test drove one last year and fell in love with the handling. The car is a pleasure to drive. It was a no brainer given the incentives. I'm glad I got one before production ended. Go for the 530, you won't be disappointed.

530bmw · July 2003

I did more research on the $4000 and low financing. At one time you can have either $4000 or 1.9% financing but not both, but I am not sure if either one is still offered to consumers. I hope that they will offer both altogether in the future so I can trade in my 02 for 03.

habitat1 · July 2003

Don't hold your breath. There are no more 2003's being made (according to three dealers I contacted) and the inventory is dwindling fast, thanks to the $4,000 incentive.

joatmon · July 2003

Well, I'm 55 like warthog. In April, I leased a 530i, 5 spd, SP. I liked the 3 series too, but have a 2 year old and a 6 year old. That extra room helps.

Remember, handling NEVER goes out of style.

Jack

rajbas · July 2003

Hi,

I have been offerd the following deal on 525 standard with leatherette interior.. No special packages on top of it.

Manual Trans : 32800
Auto Trans : 34010

Is this a good deal? Also, the financing is about 5.49 APR..

Thanks in advance.

Raj

habitat1 · July 2003

I'm not immediately familiar with 525i pricing, but check for yourself the deal vs. invoice. With the $3,500 (I believe) incentive on the 525i, a good target price would be $2,000 - $2,500 under invoice. A neighbor of mine is considering a 540i at $3,000 under invoice (based upon $4,000 incentive) through VOB BMW in Maryland.

I think any 5-series at $2,000+ under invoice is a great deal. On the financing, you can also do a home equity loan and get about 5.5% that is tax deductable interest (net rate equivalent of 3.5% +/-).

aqb · July 2003

Hoopsref, warthog, joatmon

As the big 6-0 approaches, I've wondered if the next car will be the last one, and do I want it to be a Subaru? Not!

Wifey says CR loves the BMW; then, when we heard of the rebate she says "Go for the 540" Gotta love that girl!

Bought a loaded 540 for $3K under invoice and couldn't be happier.

Rajbas, I agree with Habitat 1. Also, look into local credit unions. 3.49% deal still offered in my town.

cheezhed · July 2003

I may have not gotten the best deal. Only one similarly equiped one is left. Mine is a titanian silver/gray 2003 540ia with Nav., SP, 6 cd, power rear shade and tinted windows and cost $54,500 plus fees. Nevertheless, it's my first BMW, a great drive and I feel it's a classic. Thanks to Shipo and all the enthusiasts and hope all of you fellow BMW-iles enjoy your ride and safely.

530bmw · July 2003

You are telling me that these cars go real fast like candies? Do you live in the DC area? If not, you should check with the dealers around here if you are looking for one. I live a few minutes from Fairfax BMW in Virginia and drive by their car lot everyday, and it is full of BMW cars. I better look closer based on your statement. Let me know if you want me to check it out for you.

designman · July 2003

Recently on a newscast I heard that theft of xenon headlights is becoming rampant. Evidently, they hack up the whole front end to dislodge them, leaving costly repairs in the wake. Sure enough, it happened today to a Maxima owner in the garage where I park my car at work--his front end was a mess. At first I felt fortunate to have driven the Outback today instead of the 530. However, there were several other Beemers with xenons in the lot that went untouched. There could be many reasons for the thieve's choice but I'm wondering if this going to be a stone in our shoe. That Maxima looked like Mason in the movie Hannibal.

ryoken · July 2003

Theives steal what sells. There's a large aftermarket for Xenon upgrades for Japanese sedans. Most BMW owners who want Xenon lights order them from the factory that way, I would think.

jb_shin · July 2003

It stopped in June for certain. However, according to the BMW CAR magazine from the UK, the touring will still be produced until the E60 touring comes along. I am not sure if that will apply to the US models as well, or how credible that information actually is.

gbriank · July 2003

I am thinking about picking up a used 530iA next spring. BMW's Certified Program seems to be the way to go (extended warranty, new tires, etc...), but the salesguy I spoke to is trying to shy me away from this. Any reason why? Is certification not such a great thing?

Also, what this I hear about Dinan?

riez · July 2003

GBrianK... You don't provide much info. What exactly is the salesperson saying? Think the key might be when you write "I am thinking about picking up a used 530iA NEXT SPRING". (emphasis added) Your salesperson might not be around next spring. He wants to make a sale TODAY or in the very near future. He'll say or do anything to get you to buy now rather than later.

CPO is a great way to go. I've been pleased with both my CPO purchases. What year 530ia are you looking for? 2002? 2003? When you get ready, use BMW NA's CPO locator. That can speed up your search.

What about Dinan? Great company that provides a ton of good high performance modifications for BMWs. Believe Dinan now also has a CPO program.

tuckpana · July 2003

Hello to all I purchased a beautiful Titanium Gray Metallic 525i and just love it. Thanks to all on the board for the excellent posts over the years.

I washed the vehicle today (extra careful) and letting my hand glide ever so gently over the paint and found a rough area. It extends from on top of the left rear door roof area to about a foot above the rear wheel. Approx. 2 to 3in wide. It is dull and cloudy looking. It feels like a real fine sandpaper. Could not believe it not my bimmer.

Did the factory miss the area with paint and or clear coat?

What could be done about it? Sure would hate them to paint the area..

Only have 725mi......

Thanks

gbriank · July 2003

Good point. I'm looking at an '01 or '02 with the Premium and Sport Packages. Any other options are nice but unneeded. What kind of performance increase are we talking about with a Dinan upgrade? Cost?

On average, how much are you paying for service (oil changes, 10k, 20k, 30k maintenance cycles)?

riez · July 2003

GBrianK... You should check out Dinan's web site or go to a Dinan-certified BMW dealer near you. Dinan has a host of mods for a variety of models. Different level of mods for the same model. Guess it depends upon what you want to pay for and how much you can afford. (Various publications like European Car, Bimmer, Roundel (BMW CCA), etc. have had articles on specific Dinan mods for a specific model.)

Don't forget that BMW provides free 3/36 maintenance for '01 and '02 years. You can pay to upgrade that to 4/50 coverage. The '03s now come standard with 4/50 coverage.

You can stop by your local BMW dealer(s) and ask them how much they charge. Biggest scheduled items are the oil service (which isn't too expensive, but the BMWs do use a lot of synthetic oil), Schedule 1, and Schedule 2. Dealer likely can give you a price quote. My local BMW dealer has service price sheet covering nearly all the major and minor work you could think of. Normal schedule is oil service (15K), Sch 1 (30K), oil service (45K), and Sch 2 (60K), and then start over. Plus brake fluid changes every 2 years and coolant changes every 3 years. Oxygen sensor at 100K. The car's monitoring system will alert you to brake pad changes.

Join BMW CCA and most BMW dealers will give you at least a 10 percent discount on parts.

driller2 · July 2003

I recently scratched the underside and lip of the front right bumper on my 2003 530i with SP. Does anyone know what can be done to repair this?

mch2 · July 2003

Thanks to everyone who contributes to this board. I am now the very happy owner of a 2003 Steel Blue/Gray leather 530ia with Premium, Xenon and CPW. The information I got from this board made the buying process painless and I was able to save a good deal of money.

pap5 · July 2003

Underside front bumper scratches are probably a frequent hazard for an SP-equipped 5 series. I know I cringe every time I override a parking space divider block. I suspect removing the scratches from the polyurethane (or whatever) would involve sanding them out, then repainting. Too much trouble for a part of the car not much seen.

Besides, worse things can happen. Last week, my wife hung up the front end on a low curb. When she backed off, the left side of the rubber lip tore through the mounting hole on the bumper cover and became detached. Also, the panel that forms the bottom half of the front wheel well tore off, and the back edge of the bumper now juts out. I reinforced the torn mounting point and managed to reattach the rubber lip so it no longer hangs loose, but the bumper cover was deformed downward at that point, and still looks like crap. I haven't taken it to a bodyshop yet -- I hope to get away without replacing the bumper cover.

Once the damage is repaired (or before), I'm considering removing the rubber lip to reduce the chance of it getting hung up and causing future damage to the bumper. It appears to be attached by only three screws. Does anyone know what purpose it serves?

parrow · July 2003

I did roughly the same thing to my 530i sport. According to my body guy, the bumper cover just came out of its track. That's why it sticks out on the back edge. He put it back on the track and reattached the wheel well panels while I waited for $35.00.

warthog · July 2003

I have a 2003 530i with about 3200 miles. I just checked the oil and found it a quart low. Is this usual or do I have a problem?

msgreen · July 2003

never been an issue from what I have heard. I have a 5 series that has never burned a drop of extra oil in 92K+ miles. I mentioned this to my dealer once and he said that the six cylinder models in particular were not oil burners. Your example does not sound like much of a problem, so unless it gets worse, I wouldn't worry.

warthog · July 2003

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure I understand. You seem to say that your 5 has never burned any oil, but that I shouldn't worry that mine has used 1 qt/ 3000 mi.

cdnpinhead · July 2003

While most dealers are careful to verify that the oil is exactly at the "full" mark when a car is delivered, that's not always the case.

You should take control of the situation by filling the oil to the top, verify it yourself, then monitor it.

It's quite possible that your car never had the oil topped up properly.

warthog · July 2003

Good thought--I'll do that. Thanks.

nyccarguy · July 2003

I saw a page on the BMWCCA site that is a survey for all BMW owners. Check it out on BMWCCA.ORG

driller2 · July 2003

I have no idea why the rubber lip is there. Although it is small, I'm sure it can increase the probablity of getting caught on a parking divider. Maybe it acts as a warning that you are close to something by causing some vibration or sound as the bumper brushes against a curb? It looks like my bumper problem is no where near yours. Mine is scratched about 1 cm high on the front surface of the bumper( about 3 cm wide) as well as underneath. In a couple of places I can see the black plastic underneath (it's normally titanium silver). Is touch-up paint an idea?

pap5 · July 2003

Thanks, parrow. Since my wheel well panel is actually broken with a piece missing, it will need to be replaced. If a shop can reshape the bumper cover where it is deformed (my dealer service advisor thought they could heat it), I hope to get out for not much more than you paid.

driller2 -- I don't think the lip is an early warning device, since in my experience it doesn't make any noise until you're backing off -- too late. As for hiding the scratches on the bumper cover, touch up paint should be good enough to eliminate visual evidence unless you're up close.

cmr530i · July 2003

From what I can recall, my 2001 5er needed about a quart of oil before the first 5K miles, and another quart or two before its first service interval at 15K. No leakage problem at all. Now I am at 24K and have added another 2 quarts along the way. I don't know if this oil usage is typical, but I will mention it when the second service interval comes due.

pen101 · July 2003

I just read the results of crash testing performed by the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA). It stated that the BMW 325 performed worse than most cars in a side impact test and that the driver has a higher likelihood of sustaining injury (even the small Honda Civic did better in almost all categories of testing). This is bothersome, because I thought BMW claims its cars are amoung the safest. The 5-series was not tested this year or in any past year. Why not? I am curious, is there any crash testing (or other testing) by any other agency that would back up BMW's claim that its cars (especially the 5-series) are amoung the safest?

Also, during my daily 20 plus mile commute each way to work on a major Los Angeles Freeway (parking lot) I almost always see at least one and sometimes two M5's. Almost never the same ones each day. Always there was a male driver, some young (20's) and some a little older (30s to 50s). I was just curious of the demographics of 5-series drivers. Is there any published statistics of the sex split and average age of the purchasers of these cars? Plus, there is probably a difference between a typical M5 purchaser and a 525 purchaser.

kdshapiro · July 2003

I drive a 3 and am not worried at all. I have never heard of an issue with side-impacts with BMWs. I know people who have gotten into very bad car crashes and walked away, little or not intrusion from the engine and such. As the E46 was released in 1999, this design is also fairly old. We can hope BMW has done their homeword and beefed up the crashworthiness of the next models. I for one downplay the significance of this one test.

riez · July 2003

In America the other primary test is by IIHS. Check out their great website. Outstanding results for BOTH E46 3 Series and E39 5 Series. IIHS uses an offset test at higher speeds. Many argue this is a more realistic test. NHTSA tests straight head-on into the barrier. Few people crash that way.

IIHS gives E39 5 Series a "Best Pick" rating. Excerpt:

"The [IIHS] has evaluated the crashworthiness of the 540i in a 40 mph frontal offset crash test into a deformable barrier.

OVERALL EVALUATION: GOOD The driver space was maintained well in the frontal offset crash test, and measures indicate that significant injury was unlikely.
STRUCTURE/SAFETY CAGE: GOOD There was minimal intrusion into the driver footwell area and minimal rearward movement of the instrument panel.
RESTRAINTS/DUMMY KINEMATICS: GOOD Dummy movement was well controlled. After the dummy moved forward into the airbag, it rebounded into the seat without its head coming close to any stiff structure that could cause injury.
INJURY MEASURES: HEAD/NECK GOOD Measures taken from the head, neck, chest, and both legs indicate low risk of injury to these body regions.

IIHS gives E46 3 Series a "Best Pick" rating. Excerpt:

The [IIHS] has evaluated the crashworthiness of a BMW 328i with the structural changes in a 40 mph frontal offset crash test into a deformable barrier.

OVERALL EVALUATION: GOOD The driver space was maintained well in the frontal offset crash test, and measures indicate that significant injury was unlikely.
STRUCTURE/SAFETY CAGE: GOOD There was minimal to moderate intrusion into the driver footwell area and minimal rearward movement of the instrument panel.
RESTRAINTS/DUMMY KINEMATICS: ACCEPTABLE Dummy movement was reasonably well controlled. However, the dummy's head contacted the steering wheel through the airbag. During rebound, the top of the head contacted the roof rail between the A- and B-pillars.
INJURY MEASURES: GOOD Measures taken from the head, neck, chest, and both legs indicate low risk of injury to these body regions. Head accelerations from the steering wheel and roof rail contacts were low.

There is a worldwide New Car Crash Test Assessment Program. USA, Australia, Japan, and Europe. Each has a great website.

pen101 · July 2003

Thank you kdshapiro and riez for the information. I guess I can put away the crash helmet and suit for now.

habitat1 · July 2003

Don't draw any conclusions from driving the Los Angeles Freeway. That's about as skewed a region as there is in the country.

It so happens that I was surveyed several months ago by a market research firm doing demographic anlaysis of "high end" car buyers. As a courtesy, they shared with me the results of their findings. Unfortunately I tossed them, but seem to recall that, for the M5, average age was late 40's, median household income was $500,000 and median net worth was $6 million. Note these are median figures, not "means", which would be substantially higher.

A couple of other tidbits I recall: median net worth of Ferrari 360 buyers was $12 million, with an average age of mid 40's. Bentley buyers median net worth was $30 million and average age was mid 50's.

multiplechoice · July 2003

While crash testing does give some indication of structural strength, it is not always related to real world crash injury claims data. It seems that manufacturers will build a car to do well in a particular test. In the past, U.S. car manufacturers geared their vehicles to the frontal barrier test and the results were quite impressive for certain vehicles (i.e. many recent
Ford products have 5 star frontal impact scores) however their offset scores did not garner the same. Older style vehicles tend to not do well with the side impact test because there was not an incentive to increase the side impact strenth, no one really cared to test it. Now with the new emphasis on side impact and offset impact, there will be a new emphasis on the structural integrity of the next round of new vehicles. I personally look at the frontal impact scores in conjunction with offset and side impact scores. However, these scores do not necessarily make or break a car buying decision. You may notice that cars that do well on the frontal impact testing do not necessarily do well on the offset impact.

mxpro738 · July 2003

During recent test drives, I compared the 325 to the 330. I found the 325 to be lacking punch, while I personally found the 330 to have a strong enough motor for me.

The recent rebates now have me looking a the 530i. Considering my above opinions on the 3er, will the extra 200 pounds of the 530i make the 5er seem short on power?

Thanks!

riez · July 2003

mxpro738... Just take a test drive. That will likely answer your question. The 330i manual will be the quickest and have the best power to weight ratio. The 530i manual is pretty quick, too. And the 330ia and 530ia are decently quick.

Never heard anyone say the 530i manual wasn't quick. Quick enough? That depends. Certainly not M3 or M5 quick. Or even 540i6 quick. But likely quick enough for 95 percent of the world.

yama330 · July 2003

I have a 2002 330xi with the same engine and I logged my oil consumption over the last two years. My experience is that the oil consumption is higher when the car is new. In the first service interval, my 330xi needed one litre of oil added at 5250 km (3,250 mi) and then at 16,800 km (10,400 mi). Now in the second service interval, I just added one litre 14,200 km (8,800 mi) after the first oil service. (Litre = 1.06 US qt)

So the first litre got me 3,250 mi, the second about 7,200 mi, and after oil change the next litre 8,800 mi. 5-30 grade oil was used so far. I will ask for 5-40 oil which is also recommended for the next oil change. The oil consumption should be lower and engine protection better at the cost of slight increase in fuel consumption.

I hope this helps.

stockguy71 · July 2003

Just got back from the BMW dealer today. They gave me an offer of $38,645 (not including bank fee, etc..) for the 525ia, with premium package and xenon lights. Seems a bit high to me.. Any thoughts? Also, does anyone know if the 2003 525i will still be available in December? Thanks!

multiplechoice · July 2003

Hi stockguy71, the production of the '03 5 series supposedly ended last month. While there as still some "on the boat" from Germany, the availabilty of specific options will dry up with time. I think the "dealer cash" of $3,500 is still available on purchases. Some individual have been able to negotiate deals of $1,000 over invoice, then taking into account the dealer cash incentive, net a cost of $2,500 below invoice. Good luck!

stockguy71 · July 2003

multiplechoice, thanks for the info!

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