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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • zhangqjzhangqj Member Posts: 15
    I seem to recall last time you said the median net worth of M5ers was 4M. I don't know about Ferrari. According to this article,
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&nod- e=&contentId=A35223-2003May9&notFound=true

    Bentley buyers have on average networth of 15M.

    Btw, on the Bay Area freeways, I see M5s daily, but only once have I seen a young woman behind the wheel. 99% of the times the driver was a middle aged guy (30 - 60), alone in the car.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The 530i is not as quick as the 330i. But it is a significant improvement from the former 528i.

    In the price/power continuum, I believe the 530i is probably the best trade off within the 5 series line up. Here's how I would rate them (all with manual transmissions):

    525i: 0-60 in roughly 7.8 seconds. Solid and adequate for the average driver.

    530i: for a nominal $3-4k price increase, a noticable jump in power (0-60 in 6.5 +/- seconds) with no penalty in gas milage or insurance premiums.

    540i: for $8-10k more than the 530i (including gas guzzler), more power, but not that much more performance at "legal" speeds (0-60 in 5.9+/- seconds). You have to be a torque addict or drive at 80 mph+ to take full advantiage of the 540i over 530i power. And you will pay a significant premium in insurance and gas for that privaledge.

    M5: for a mere $16k more than the 540i, the ultimate performance sedan (0-60 in 4.8 seconds and handling that belies its 4,000 lb curb weight). Gas and insurance - who cares?

    If you can live with the smaller 330i, its a bit more sporting than the 530i. But a small bit in my book. I'd take the added luxury, room and comfort of the 530i, equip it with a sport package, and be happy to have the best handling mid size sedan this side of the $75k M5.
  • joatmonjoatmon Member Posts: 315
    I think you summed it up very well. I concur. I've driven them all, and I bought a 530i, SP, PP, 5 speed earlier in the year. No regrets. (at least not until I drive my son's 540i 6 speed)
  • sdg380sdg380 Member Posts: 109
    Hab, I think you make good points that the 530 offers the best all-round 5-series. I like to think "balance" ('02 530, PP, stick). Same chassis (and luxury appointments) as the more expensive, and heavier in the front-end 540, nearly the lightest 5-series with nearly ideal 50/50 weight distribution, BEST mileage of all of the 5-series (with stick), preferred-for-precision rack-and-pinion v. recirculating ball steering of 540, perfect primary balance of inline-6 (v. inherent rocking couple of V-8), no gas guzzler tax (talk about money down the drain!) I skipped the Sport Package, stock suspension is firm enough, and all-season tires make sense here in the Midwest.
  • prelude1997prelude1997 Member Posts: 26
    does anyone know the amound of discount the diplomatic purchase program offer? my wife has her diplomatic passport from working with the State Dept. Thanks!
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    sdg380... Don't sell the 540i6 short. I drive one. Wife has 323ia. I drive her's.

    I don't notice any steering superiority. Both are fantastic.

    My 540i6 gets over 26 mpg cruising at 74 mph. Her's gets about 28 mpg.

    Both engines are silky smooth.

    No gas guzzler tax on CPO units.

    Using MY2003 data...

    Weight differential and distribution not that different. For manual models:

    525i= 3450 lbs and 50.2/49.8
    530i= 3494 lbs and 50.5/49.5
    540i6= 3748 lbs and 52.1/47.9

    So 540i6 weighs only 254 pounds (or 7.2 percent) more than the 530i. Front weight distribution only 1.6 percent heavier.

    Then compare power (hp/torque):

    525i= 184/175
    530i= 224/214
    540i6= 290/324

    The 540i6 produces 110 lb-ft more torque than 530i!

    540i6 has top speed limited to 155 mph. 525i and 530i limited to 128 mph.

    540i6 comes standard with Sport Package!
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    You made my day. I'm telling my wife that I'm only 7.2% (10-12 lbs) overweight compared to a couple of years ago. And, while I was formerly 50/50 balanced, I'm still only 52.1% "butt heavy".

    Seriously, the 540i 6-speed is a phenominal car and no one I know wouldn't be proud to have it as a daily driver. But the 530i 5-speed is a big improvement in actual performance over the old 528i and significantly closes the gap for those of us who can live with a 128 mph top speed. Using my 1995 Nissan Maxima 5-speed as the benchmark, the 528i was noticably slower off the line and in the midrange. The 530i is a bit quicker all around. Of course any RWD 5-series is a superior handler than the FWD Maxima. Interestingly the Maxima SE has a 140 mph top speed but I haven't used the last 40+ mph of that range (nor on my S2000, for that matter).

    My slight fear of the 540i is long term maintenance and repairs. My Maxima has 142k trouble free miles. My Nissan dealer is also a BMW dealer (VOB, Rockville Maryland). The service manager claims the BMW I6 is as dependable and durable as the Maxima's highly acclaimed V6. He also speaks well of the BMW 4.4 liter V8, but is quick to acknowledge that it is likely to require "quite a bit more" maintenance and repairs after 75-100k miles than the others. I haven't probed him on what that equates to in $ and cents, but he drives a 530i himself. Since my history has been to buy new, pay cash and keep a car for 7-9+ years, the $42k 530i seems like pretty safe bet. I know you are a CPO fan and that equation may produce different results.
  • sdg380sdg380 Member Posts: 109
    Not to sell a 540 short, a great ride to be sure, but I still like a six in this chassis for balance (would really like the M3's six). Also, I bought new, so I've still got nearly $10k savings in the bank that's not depreciating (albeit, not earning much interest either!). And while buying CPO is a good way to limit the bigger $$ that a 540 depreciates, I'm always just a little leery of buying a pre-owned performance car, for obvious reasons.

    As you note from weight distribution, I think we know where that extra 254 lbs. is (ie, over the front axle)-thus reduced polar moment of inertia for 530 when cornering. Also, at less than 3500 lbs., my 530 was about the same weight as my old 525, and I just think closer to 3000 than 4000 is better for a car with sporting pretensions (that's why those new Porsche SUV's are such a joke, tested weight is like 5700 lbs.!) And while the difference in mileage probably only amounts to a few hundred bucks difference in gas per year, I like the idea of a car engineered to provide performance and efficiency, contributed to by slightly higher compression ratio of 530 (10.2:1 v. 10:1).

    To be sure, I have lusted after a 6-spd. box, but as I've said, I think any BMW is sporty enough without the sport package (with stiffer suspension, and those firm-riding, pothole-vulnerable low profile tires and wheels), and the 540 stick was take it or leave it with the sport package.

    No doubt the eight is a torquer, although the Vanos on the 530 gives it bottom end my 525 never had. And no doubt 540 has lots more top end, but what's the fastest you've had it? Guess I'm getting old and chicken (and afraid of getting arrested!), not too many places around here to do 128 mph, much less 155. But hey, this is Golden Delicious v. Red Delicious, all very tasty!
  • sdg380sdg380 Member Posts: 109
    Habitat--that's a great line, I'm using it too!
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Those weight figures I cited above are empty weights. Add yourself and a full tank of gas. Now you have just added anywhere from 200-300 pounds.

    The 4.4L engine really packs a torque punch. Across a vast RPM spread. And the HP is quite good. Plus it used a 6-speed manual with different gearing than the 530i.
  • sergeymsergeym Member Posts: 283
    Just noticed that numbers for 525 and 530 are for manuals. 540 number is for an auto. 540 i/6 gets to 60mph in 5.4-5.5 seconds. BTW it is not the top speed that counts in every-day driving it is a stop-light acceleration that makes 540 more desirable that 525/530 cround. Also here in NYC everyone and their mother own a BMW not that many with 8 cyls though.
  • 530bmw530bmw Member Posts: 130
    When I switch on the AC in the morning sometime I can smell an odor that I cannot quite describe what it smells like.It only happended to me a few times. Has anyone run into this problem before, or can anyone tell me what may be the cause of this?
  • jb_shinjb_shin Member Posts: 357
    Diplomat purchase program in US does not give you much savings at all. I think you can do better with ED. On the other hand, Diplomat Purchase program outside of US is quite good. (~12% of US MSRP)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    In my part of town Bimmers are a dime a dozen. But you know what, I still a couple of thumbs up a week on the car when it is clean. Theres only one car that is seen more on the road than a 325 and that's an S500. There are those who express disdain because the Bimmers are a dime-a-dozen. To them I say, get a Hyundia.
  • 67healy67healy Member Posts: 4
    My wife and I are looking to buy our first BMW. We looked at a 2003 525i with a sticker price of 42,520, the dealer offered it to us for 37,020 and 4.2% financing for five years. This seems like a great offer to us but we know the new series is due out in late fall and were unsure if this car would look dated compared to the new look and also how much the value would go down with the old style. With the new series due out soon, we were wondering if people will be trading in their late model 525's or 530's for the new ones, and then it might be better to wait and buy one of these.
  • karmikankarmikan Member Posts: 116
    A few points - check out the comments on the "design" threads on this board. The new design is a lead balloon to many people.

    The new 7 series was the first to use the revised styling cues and a recent magazine (maybe Road & Track) noted that resale values of the previous generation 7 series are actually going UP due to the poor reception of the new design. Something similar might happen with the 5 series.

    The current 5 series design is arguably a classic that will look good 10 yrs from now, not sure that the same will hold for the new design.

    Good/bad/indifferent design is all in the eye of the beholder but you sure seem to have snagged a nice deal......
  • prelude1997prelude1997 Member Posts: 26
    You are right. The dealer is only giving me a $500 "diplomatic discount". And that would make me ineligible for the 1K BMWCCA rebate. Not a hard decision. Thanks for the info.
    And thanks to all who have shared their info/knowledge on the board. Going to sign on the dotted line this afternoon.
  • pap5pap5 Member Posts: 144
    Most of those who post here own the current generation 5-series, so we may tend to be biased. However, every magazine piece I've read about the 2004 5-series makes some reference to "controversial styling." It may catch on some day, but not soon. Mechanically and structurally, the current E39 5-series has benefitted from 7 years of refinement. The new 5 promises some interesting technology which (according to the road tests) does enhance the driving experience, but has no reliability track record yet.

    In general, the styling of the 5-series has aged well, going back to the E-12 model of the late 70s. Karmikan is right -- the current 5-series should continue to look good for a long time. Judging from your handle, it seems you know something about classic automotive design -- the big Healey 100/3000 is one of the Immortals.
  • driller2driller2 Member Posts: 7
    I recently bought a 530i and was wondering if it would be advisable to use the Lexol products now, while the leather and vinyl are new. Or would it be better to wait. Will these products help preserve the oils in the leather and vinyl of a NEW car?
  • srfastsrfast Member Posts: 138
    vinyl anytime. Doing it early and on a regular basis will prevent the leather from drying prematurely.

    Hope this helps....JL
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Check out pages 28-32 of the September 2003 issue of European Car. Their "First Look". Based on actually driving the car. They rave about the active anti-roll bars in the Active Roll Stabilization System, but have serious reservations about the Active Front Steering system. They also don't appear to be fans fo the run-flat tires. Their advice, avoid the Sport Pkg, since that come standard with AFS and run-flat tires. They do praise increased rear seat room and bigger trunk.

    Found some of their comments disturbing:

    "Unfortunately, BMW engineers have decided that they need to be more sophisticated, and the result is less than satisfying for those who enjoy driving."

    "The fussy details in the car's styling, the awkwardness of some of its controls and the imprecision in the driving experience seem to point to an unwelcome direction in BMW's evolution."
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Check out pages 56-61 of the October 2003 issue of Bimmer magazine. Author raves about new E60 530i. Some excerpts:

    "No way could I do this in an E39: The previous 5 was simply too soft, too imprecise an instrument. The E60, on the other hand, represents a leap forward akin to the one BMW made in going from the E36 to E46 3 Series. Performance has been improved in almost every respect, sharpening and invigorating the driving experience along the way."

    "Even with such a [non-Sport Pkg] setup, the E60 felt inherently sportier than the E39, thanks mainly to the lack of body roll courtesy of BMW's Active Roll Stabilization."

    "[In the Sport Pkg car] body roll is reduced even further in this version, and the car's suspension provides what our notes say is 'perfect control' over all road surfaces."

    "a car is still defined by the basics in the end: vehicle dynamics, comfort and quality. On those counts, the new 5 is every inch a classic BMW."

    She had some issues with Active Front Steering, but came to the conclusion that "the trick is to forget that [AFS] is even there and simply drive. And although I never re-create the state of bliss that marked my first half-mile in the new E60 530i, I later manage to come to terms with [AFS], and even to miss it when it isn't there."

    She appreciated larger rear seat and trunk.

    Will be interesting to see how the rest of the reviews are.
  • tlmmhowelltlmmhowell Member Posts: 48
    What extra service items do you all recommend for the Inspection I? My reading of the manual seems to indicate they change the oil and check everything else. I read in Roundel a while back that other things s/b done such as brake fluid, atf filter and fluid, radiator flush, diff fluid. What about it? Mine is a 540iTa. Thanks for responding.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Here's my regimen:
    brake fluid-every two years unless you track the car, in which case you should flush it at least every six month. ATE Super Blue is my brake fluid of choice.

    ATF/filter- the proprietary ATF your ZF autobox uses is very expensive, so I'd change it about every 40-50 thousand miles.

    Coolant- Every three years is fine, but use BMW Coolant only.

    Final Drive- I change mine about every Inspection II, using a good synthetic gear oil such as Redline or Mobil 1.
  • tlmmhowelltlmmhowell Member Posts: 48
    Thanks for the response Div2.
    Will my BMW dealer have ATE Super Blue? I assume not. If not, will the stuff they use be acceptable.
    Just curious- how often do you change your oil? What oil do you use? Thanks.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    BMW calls for a DOT4 brake fluid and sells a fluid that meets those specs. It will work fine. Castrol LMA is another good DOT4 fluid. The ATE Super Blue has higher wet/dry boiling points and is a good choice for track events.
    As for oil, I change it at @8000 mile intervals. I have been using Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40, but I'm going to switch to Mobil 1 0W-40 at the next change as I believe that it is a better oil. Frankly, the BMW Synthetic is also a fine product. It is NOT-as some claim-re-labeled Castrol Syntec. I bought an oil extractor from Griots- http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=10122 and perform the oil services myself. Let me know if I can help with any further questions.
  • mxpro738mxpro738 Member Posts: 59
    All: Thanks for your feedback on the 530i (post #6969).

    Best regards!
  • mod62mod62 Member Posts: 38
    I just returned from a 1,500 mile jaunt to Maine. It was a great trip and especially enjoyable to really open up my 525iT 5 speed on the newly paved Coastal Maine Roads. The only down side is that I kept wishing BMW would bring the 530iT with 5 speed or the 540 with stick to the USA. I love Wagons and it was great to average 27 mpg over the entire trip in all kinds of driving conditions and still be able to haul a ton of stuff. It was also fun to keep increasing my average speed and not having to be told to slow down!
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    Just returned from Las Vegas. The trip computer (in my 530i 5-speed) logged 32.3 MPG for the approximate 300 mile trip back to LA. I think the mileage would have been better if my average speed was about 10 MPH slower, at the posted 70 MPH speed limit. If no where else, this was where the car really excelled. It felt rock solid and planted at high speeds. It was a fun drive.

    I used my passport 8500 radar detector for protection. It probably saved me a speeding ticket. But I am curious. I noticed that the Ka band warning would go off whenever a CHP cruiser was in the area, even when they were not using radar. Why? (this is not a bad thing, but what was triggering the Ka warning) I usually had about a mile or so of notice. Also, there were long stretches in the desert where the x-band would go off for no reason. Why? In fact even the K-band went off (correctly) a mile or more before we passed a stationary unmanned radar speed detection sign.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Keep in mind, along the 15, there are several test ranges for both Navy and Air Force (Edwards, China Lake, etc). They use radar extensively.

    I've even seen operators at EAFB using radar to target cars on highway 58 to test sensitivity...

    Just look up every once in a while. :)

    -Paul
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    Edward's is not the only EAFB in the US.
  • diver110diver110 Member Posts: 67
    On my 540iT (which I love) the computer's calculation of miles per gallon always is 1 mpg+ more than my own calculations using mileage travelled and the gallons showing on the pump. I assume the latter is more reliable. Anyone else notice this?
  • 67healy67healy Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for your input I think we are leaning towards the 2003 525. Although a used 528 seems like a good option, since they look the 2003 525. What do you think? Pap5 thanks for the compliment the big Healys are truly beautiful.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    The computer does not know about the fuel that goes through the charcoal canister (fuel that evaporates out of the fuel tank pressure relief valve). This (in hot weather) seems to be on the order of around 1 gallon per tankfull (at least for me).
  • 330iii330iii Member Posts: 71
    Has anyone noticed the horsepower rating at 225hp remains the same for an 04 530i but is at 4900rpm instead of 5900rpm for the 03 530i,is that a typo? Also,is it just me or does the 04 5 series look like a larger 3 series from the front and side, but like a mustang or mini 7 series from the rear!
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    According to the voluminous Tech Specs printed in the current (July'03) issue of Roundel magazine (BMW CCA), which includes the graphed power curves, for the new E60 530i...

    Peak torque: occurs at 3500 rpms and the torque curve is essentially flat from 3,500 rpms all the way to 4,900 rpms.

    Peak horsepower: occurs at 5900 rpms

    These figures are identical to the '03 E39 530i. According to BMW NA's '03 5 Series brochure:

    Peak torque: 214 lb-ft at 3500 rpms
    Peak HP: 225 hp at 5900 rpms
  • 330iii330iii Member Posts: 71
    So the engine is a carryover from 03? I guess it's a marketing ploy,in Motor Trend (new M5 on cover) and the 04 5 series brochure they pitch 225hp at 4900rpm.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    330iii... BMW has/is doing a lot of expensive new product development. Initial "big" engine improvement is to the 545i V8, shared with the 545i. New 745i, with its improved 4.4L only came out last year. Cost a ton to develop. The new 6 Series, which is based on the 5 Series, is going to have a 635i V8 and a 645i V8. It is costing a pretty penny. And the new 1 Series is on the near horizon. More development costs there.

    There was only so much money for 5 Series development. The current 2.5L and 3.0L I6s are both fantastic engines. And don't forget that the 525i and 530i get both new automatic and manual transmissions. Improvements to I6s will come. Who knows, maybe there will be a 535i V8? And maybe a diesel or two in next few years?
  • cbgb1975cbgb1975 Member Posts: 51
    Maybe six speed in '04 v 5 speed in '03 would account for rpm change???
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    My 530 with auto gets about 28 mpg cruising around 70 mph on NY suburban highways. On local roads this plummets to 18 mpg. With highway and local driving split 50/50, mileage is about 19.5-20.5 mpg. The disparity seems a little extreme, but perhaps this is the tradeoff for low-end torque. The driving habits of myself and the little woman are a little less than civilized. This means we both like to get up to speed quickly. And then, of course, there are those moments when I have to experience it's potential. In terms of BMW performance as compared to everything else I've driven, I'm perfectly happy with these numbers. However, I'd like to know how this compares.

    BTW with regard to message #7007, I've noticed the same.
  • sirtigersirtiger Member Posts: 38
    I have the same car (03 530ia) & live in nyc. I get the same mileage as you... just a fyi.

    I thought that was extreme as well....u r not the only one here... that 18-21 mpg stinks... its almost as bad as my old nissan pathfinder.
  • pap5pap5 Member Posts: 144
    67healy -- If purchase price isn't the primary consideration, I agree that a new 525 is a better bet than a 2000 (or older) 528. The 528 will cost less up front, but the 525 will come with the new car warranty and maintenance plan. One caveat: The 525 has lower hp/torque figures than the 528, and is reported by those who have driven both (I haven't) to be slower to speed. Be sure to drive both, equipped with the transmission you intend to buy, for comparison.

    designman -- Your avg. MPG for mixed driving is in line with what I get in my 530ia. I'm sure the main cause is losses through the slushbox on acceleration, which aren't a factor when it is locked up in top gear on the highway. I believe some of the 530i 5-sp. owners have reported better numbers in mixed driving.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    One important thing affecting local gas milage is that you start out with a cold engine and it burns more fuel till it warms up. Summer weather is hot enough that this is much less of a factor than it is in winter, but it still is a factor. In addition, stop and go driving is going to be worse than steady cruising.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    With peak horsepower of 225 at 5900 RPM's, the torque is 200 ft-lbs at 5900. Not quite "flat", but a loss of only 7% from the peak at 3500 RPM's.
  • mxpro738mxpro738 Member Posts: 59
    Hello folks!

    I am in the middle of a lease negotiation on a 330i. I am being told that as of July 7th, BMW increased it's lease acquisition fee from $500 to $1,000. Ouch! Is this valid? For what it's worth, I am in New York State.

    If anyone here knows the answer, I would greatly appreciate your help.

    Best regards!
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    fjk57702... I wrote, "Peak torque: occurs at 3500 rpms and the torque curve is essentially flat from 3,500 rpms all the way to 4,900 rpms."

    I didn't say anything about the torque curve before 3500 rpms or after 4900 rpms. But according to the printed output graph, torque is essentially flat from 3500-4900 rpms. So you get peak torque for a good portion of the total power curve.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    And below 3500 it drops off? Do you still have 90% at 1500 RPM's?
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    fjk... It rises from idle to its peak at 3500 RPMs and then is flat from 3500 rpms to 4900 rpms, after which it starts falling.

    You should look at the chart in the latest issue of Roundel. Plethora of great tech specs on the new E60!
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    GM's new 3.6 liter DOHC VVT V6 has 90% of the peak torque between 1600 RPMs and 5800 RPMs. That is 225+ft-lbs over that speed range with the peak (250 ft-lbs) at 3200 RPMs. Peak horsepower is at 6200 RPMs.
  • 330iii330iii Member Posts: 71
    Is that the Caddy CTS's new V6? The CTS v will be a monster.
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