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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • jb_shinjb_shin Member Posts: 357
    check www.bmwtips.com for instructions, I am sure they have it.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    woodranch1, try a dialogue with Mr_Shiftright HOST. He is an Edmunds moderator in one of the Porsche forums that I frequent. He seems to be a very experienced driver, good writer, and is easy to communicate with. I would think he can give you some insight. Read his bio... pretty impressive.
  • 530bmw530bmw Member Posts: 130
    May I asked what was your trade-in value when you bought your Lexus?
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    That did the trick. I'm pretty tall and have felt confined on long trips.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    530bmw... The IS300 I bought had an MSRP of $32,939. I paid $13,000 and my trade in. Difference of $19,939. So I really only got around $17,500-18,000 for it (since the dealer and I both know he would've sold me the car outright for a couple thousand off MSRP). But I had another dealer refuse a sale at this price and my local BMW dealer wasn't interested in buying it off me.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    That trade in on a 540i 6-speed is an eye opener. I know you bought it used, so you didn't do poorly, but my guess is that the 540i 6-speed was about $50,000 new in 1998. A trade in of $18,000 is a $32,000 5-6 year depreciation hit.

    By comparison, I almost bought a 1998 E300 Turbodiesel new in late 1997 for $42,200 (still have the purchase papers). Based upon what I see in the DC area, I could sell that car in a heartbeat today for $25k with 75,000 miles. One of my consultants has a 1999 with 70k miles and was offered either $30k on a 2004 E500 trade or $27,500 in cash to sell it to the dealer (HBL in Tysons Corner).

    My conclusion is that the BMW 5-series after about 70k miles is pretty tough on depreciation compared to the E class (although, in fairness, the E430 V8 takes a bigger hit than the 6-cylinder or turbodiesel).
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    all those who think the new 5 looks odd, well, find a new car to like...

    I LOVE IT. I LOVE THE SLEEK NEW INDUSTRIAL LOOK, I LOVE THAT THEY ABANDONED BEING OLD EUROPE, I LOVE THE DRIVE

    ksso
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    It might be advisable to swing by a Cadillac dealer and Check out the upcoming CTS-V. It has received very positive reviews.

    Pack a whooping 400 HP. LS V8 engine as found in a Z06 Corvette. This car is nothing like GM has done before.
  • 530bmw530bmw Member Posts: 130
    It appears to me, based on your information, MB holds resale value better than BMW. I hope it is the badge, not reliability. I also wonder if the trend (resale value) still continues in that direction even though the reliability on the 5 series is better than MB E-class.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The likelihood that anyone considering a new or used M5 would ever cross shop a Cadillac is pretty remote.

    BMW may have "Bangled-up" the new design from an aesthetic standpoint, but BMW has a long tradition and history of engineering excellence and exceptional driving dynamics. GM on the other hand, has a long tradition of essentially producing junk. I hate to sound so harsh, but to even set foot in a GM showroom, I would need to have a frontal lobotomy to remove from memory the cars that fell apart in the hands of my parants and other family members at a time when they couldn't afford it.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    srfast, jb_shin, thanks for the tip. Removing that clip gains an extra 2 1/8" of seat travel. All I needed was an inch.

    The question now... why is it there to begin with? My first guess is that the extra seat travel compromises air bag efficacy. Anyone know for sure? Will be checking in with BMW on this to see what they have to say.
  • srfastsrfast Member Posts: 138
    More of a liability issue than anything else.

    Regards....JL
  • warthogwarthog Member Posts: 216
    I don't know about airbag efficiency. The passenger airbag is mounted farther from the seat than the driver's bag and the passenger seat travel isn't restricted, so I doubt that's the reason for the clip. My guess is that Big Brother by the Potomac feared some short person would move the seat back too far to apply the brake. Is the clip present on Euro versions?
  • mtjohnmtjohn Member Posts: 34
    Thanks, jb_shin for the great tip. Like Designman I needed about another inch to be comfortable in my 530. I think the clip is there because of the possibility of crushing a rear seat passenger's legs by accident since there is so little room to begin with.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    530bmw... I wouldn't draw too many firm conclusions from such a small sample size.

    Resale values have declined for many marques and models. All the subsidies, rebates, incentives to dealers, low interest loans, etc. have taken their toll. Just look at how much BMW was recently offering on the last E39s. Was cheaper to buy a new '03 E39 than a used '02 E39. That put pressure on all used E39s.

    My '98 540i6 was 6 model years old. Almost hitting 80K miles. CPO warranty expires in February '04. New 5 Series is upon us. That impacts resales but right now no one knows for sure if the new 5 will be a sales winner or not. Winter is almost upon us and I live in the midwest. I'd hate to think what I would've gotten if I tried to sell her in winter or after CPO expired.

    habitat1... You wrote, "I almost bought a 1998 E300 Turbodiesel new in late 1997 for $42,200 (still have the purchase papers). Based upon what I see in the DC area, I could sell that car in a heartbeat today for $25k with 75,000 miles." You only know what you actually get the day you sell the car. You will always get more selling your car to a private party. Dealer buys wholesale and sells at retail. But in my state, seller pays sales tax and you don't pay sales tax on the trade in portion of the new car purchase (so I saved over a $1K just in taxes).

    Turbo-diesels sell to a unique audience. There aren't that many. Smallish group of people who want high fuel economy in a luxury car. You should do the analysis on a '98 gasoline E class.
  • mtjohnmtjohn Member Posts: 34
    Thanks, jb_shin for the great tip. Like Designman I needed about another inch to be comfortable in my 530. I think the clip is there because of the possibility of crushing a rear seat passenger's legs by accident since there is so little room to begin with.
  • lonobiscuitlonobiscuit Member Posts: 4
    does anyone happen to know? i snagged an 03 525 in the waning hours of the incentives and could not be any more excited about the purchase. first of a lifetime of bimmers for me and my family. anyway, i noticed the tag on the inside of the driver's side door that mine was made in March '03. just curious whether this was one of the last or if the car just took a while to find me...thx.
  • srfastsrfast Member Posts: 138
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Was looking at the airbag schematics in the 03 5 sales brochure. Even with the clip intact and seat extended to the max, the driver does not seem to be in an optimal position if the side airbags deploy. By removing the clip and extending the seat further it seems the driver is completely unprotected by the airbag in the door, and virtually unprotected by the side HPS up top. I guess in this situation, BMW safety claims and ratings would be compromised with regard to side impact.

    But the difference in comfort is night and day by being able to extend that seat. I can't believe I almost didn't buy the car because I felt cramped. Now it feels like a totally different vehicle. I have to believe a certain amount of sales were lost because of this and am curious to see how the side airbags are sorted out in the new 5 which comes with ample legroom.

    Am still looking forward to contacting BMW tech and marketing.
  • 330iii330iii Member Posts: 71
    Too bad BMW doesn't offer the 530d in the US,diesel has more torque albeit smelly fumes but is much more fuel efficient!
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I'm with you re: GM junk; I MIGHT consider a GM pickup if I needed such a sled, and the Z06 would be a fun track toy-but otherwise there is nothing in GM's lineup which interests me in the slightest. Another problem with the CTS-V will be finding a Cadillac dealership(AKA "God's Waiting Room") that doesn't slap a gold kit and a simulated cabriolet roof on every Caddy they get...
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    Cadillac is not the car it used to be in the 70's to 1999. I think when a CTS-V moons you on the track, you will appriciate that you are playing with the big boys

    Did you know that BMW’s 5-speeder is GM-sourced? GM has changed much. Especially Cadillac and soon Buick.
  • jb_shinjb_shin Member Posts: 357
    Yes, it is designed and made by a company in France owned by GM, but I believe the only hand GM has in the transmission is the name.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Save your breath.

    A modified Neon or Civic could probably beat any stock BMW or GM "at the track". I suspect that most BMW owners and posters here have a slightly broader perspective on what constitutes engineering excellence and performance.

    "Cadillac is not the car it used to be in the 70's to 1999." Is that so? Personally, I don't believe that. But, even if you are gullible enough to, try coming back here in 30 years when you don't have to apologize for the most recent three decades. You don't become a winner overnight with so much practice at being a loser.

    I'd like to believe the potential for a competitive or even superior American automobile company exists. But it would not involve either the management of GM or the UAW.

    Sorry to the host and rest of the board for the digression.
  • billbroxbillbrox Member Posts: 41
    Started the bimmer this morning and she was knocking in idle. Took her on the road and with each acceleration it felt like I was going over rumble strips. This continued for 25 minutes (with each accel.) until I got to work. Any thoughts onwhat it might be? Help, she feels sick!
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    billbrox, I'm just guessing and don't know where you're located but it sounds like it could be a minor choke problem... coincides with our first frost around NYC. Obviously, you should get it in to service.
  • billbroxbillbrox Member Posts: 41
    d-man, Many thanks....the knocking did stop once I started it again this pm. (temps now around 64 degrees). Am scheduled to have it serviced this pm. Go Yanks!
    Thanks again....
  • casey103casey103 Member Posts: 11
    I haven't owned a BMW since 1985 (320i). Yesterday I test drove a 98 528i sedan w/ 5sp. It drives really nice..80k miles. Two owners.17 inch wheels. He wants $14,100. This seems to be reasonable based on Edmunds or KBB. It seems that other comments indicate that I need to be able to verify service records to be comfortable. Any other feedabck would be greatly appreciated. I am anxious to get back into a BMW. 14k seems pretty reasonable...but I guess it won't seem cheap if I had a major engine problem. Any suggestions??
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Yeah, I'll bet you'll see a bunch of CTS-Vs at the track... Grandpa would be scared that driving over 60 MPH might blow the cabriolet roof clean off.

    <Did you know that BMW&#146;s 5-speeder is GM-sourced?>
    Yes, and note that the transmissions are designed/built in Europe. Anyway, GM slushboxes aren't the problem; it's the rest of the car.

    <GM has changed much. Especially Cadillac and soon Buick>

    Let's see... the Allante was supposed to beat the SL 500 at it's own game. Then the Catera was going to put the A4, C Class, and 3er on the trailer. Oh yeah, and Cadillac was going to dominate LeMans-just like Audi, BMW, and M-B. Refresh my memory; just how many podium finishes did Cadillac score??? Now the CTS-V is going to put the S, M, and AMG cars in the shade? I'll bet there will be darn few CTS-V drivers willing to race an E39 M5 for pinks. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a chipped E28 or E35 M5 ran and hid from the CTS-V either. As habitat said, come back here when Cadillac has had three decades of experience building real sports sedans.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    The six cylinder E39s are just about bulletproof. The '97s(like mine) had a few teething problems, but they were pretty much resolved by the time the '98s came out. I bought my 528iA in early 2001 and I now have 95000 miles on it. Mileage has averaged @22 mpg. Service/repair costs have averaged $56/month-$77 if you include the cost of four Artic Alpins, steel wheels, and OEM BMW wheel covers.
    Get the service history and have a BMW tech inspect it. At 80K it should have had a water pump fitted not to long ago. It sounds like a good price, but don't get too attached; there are a ton of used 5ers out there and it's worth waiting for a good one. See bmwtips.com for good E39 info as well-and you can also contact me via the web page listed in my profile.
  • joatmonjoatmon Member Posts: 315
    Div2 meant to say E28 or E34 M5s. Just to keep the record straight. BTW, an old E28 M5 still rides, handles, and moves like few cars produced today.

    Happy BMW Motoring,

    Jack
  • lazuralazura Member Posts: 43
    It's a fact that most BMW's and Mercedes depreciate 50% in 3 years (the exception being limited editions like the M5). Therefore, the 'sweet spot' for these cars (like the 5-series) is years 4-6. The benefits are huge: a) 50% cheaper price, b) still under full warranty (1 year original, 2 years CPO), c) lower insurance costs and d) first owner has beared the burden of service delays with all the recalls. That's how I purchased my BMW E39 and MB C43 AMG; the same great vehicles at 1/2 the cost. The fact is the new 5-series is WAY over-priced compared to the previous E39. The earliest I will even consider the E60 is 2007.

    P.S. - My biggest gripe with the E60 is not the styling (which is after all subjective) but the sub-standard quality of the exterior and interior materials. The entire lower 1/3 of the exterior is PLASTIC! Almost the entire back-end is also plastic. The interior contains very cheap plastic (especially in the door inserts and center console) compared to my E39. Also, the leather seat coverings (that's right, coverings, not full leather) is very thin and not very comfortable. I'm sure the driving experience is better than my E39, but for over $50,000 I expect some level of quality materials.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Member Posts: 200
    wrong...........5 doesn't deprieciate 50% in three years. Try to find a 2001 525 for 21 grand. MSRP on a typically equipped model would have been about 41-42 grand. Average wholesale black book on the car is over 26 grand. So, that blows your theory.
    Furthermore, it seems that all this chat with people that have E39's is directed at bashing the new five. I have heard the 'cheap' references before. Your car (E39) is fabulous, that goes without saying, but there is nothing cheap about the E60. It's just a totally different presentation. I hope that you can begin to appreciate the differences because it is greatly improved in all areas.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I know you have to toe the corporate line on the E60, but I have yet to find anyone NOT employed by BMW say that they prefer the E60 interior or exterior to that of the E39. It seems like Bangle and his cadre of minions are changing things simply to be different.

    Example 1. The E65 shift lever. It's obvious that BMW wnted to admit to building a car with a column shift, so they adopted a non-intuitive procedure that requires you to give a info card to the valet so the poor [non-permissible content removed] can get the thing out of park.
     
    Example 2. Using the turn signal wand on the E60 now requires a moderate learning curve. Now, just exactly what was wrong with the setup BMW used for the past four decades? I sure don't remember hearing anyone complain about turn signal switches in the past.

     Yes, BMWs are still excellent driving machines, but now you have to get past the gawky styling and infuriating stechnology to appreciate them.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Final (overall) depreciation calculation is simply the difference between what the original buyer actually paid less what the original buyer gets when s/he finally sells the car.

    Depreciation is NOT based on MSRP (unless that reflects the actual cost of the car) or what another dealer later sells the car for after they take it in trade or buy it in auction.

    Keep in mind that dealers ordinarily acquire their used cars at wholesale and sell at retail. The markup is their profit. They rarely buy or sell cars at a loss. An original owner who sells car by him/herself, likely gets more than wholesale but less than car dealer retail.

    Future value of a car is what it actually sells to a paying buyer for years later.

    Future value depends upon time, mileage, condition of the car, and condition of the market vis-a-vis the particular car. [See what happens to resale if you buy an "odd" car that no one wants (e.g., a stripper non-metallic white 525i 5-speed manual with no options). Or try to sell a RWD convertible in winter in Minnesota.]
  • timtrantimtran Member Posts: 29
    Time will tell whether the E60 is a hit or a flop. BMW cars used to be considered cheaper cars than, let's say, Mercedes (the 1st BMW car had a motorcycle engine, believe it or not.) Let us not let ourselves divided by different opinions. A car is just a car, not worth losing temper over. We can curse Bangle but it does not change anything about the E60. People will buy it nonetheless. C'est temps de laisser ca aller.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Member Posts: 200
    whatever your formula (I've provided an example that is plausible but I've seen no others here) I will maintain that a 5 series DOES NOT depreciate 50% in three years.

    I don't have to "toe the BMW corporate line". The product stands on its own and I have sold 4 new 5's already. People love the car.
  • ndmdndmd Member Posts: 27
    Sorry all you new 5 haters out there. I love this car. First, I agree that the exterior is a big change. However, I do not understand the Pontiac references. The style is new and great looking. Do not misunderstand me, I think the last 5 was beautiful, too. Now, I think it looks dated compared to this one.

    The interior is cool. I do agree that it is less of a cockpit, but that is OK. It is extremely comfortable and quiet...much quieter than the last 5. I will also admit that I am a technophile. I LOVE new technology and this car has tons of it. Sorry, but I love the gadgets.

    Finally, the car is amazing to drive. Of course, I am currently driving a '01 Altima, so I do not have much to compare it to. However, I have driven the E39 and this car does seem tighter.

    The car I drove was 530 with PP, SP, and xenon.

    I have waited years and years to be able to buy a luxury car. Now, all I have to do is decide on options and whether I want to spend the extra bucks for the 545i. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the only thing I get with the 45 is a blast of an engine. I would rarely use its potential, though.

    I will wait a few more months and then buy. Hopefully, they will be willing to deal a bit, but I will pay MSRP if necessary.
  • joatmonjoatmon Member Posts: 315
    I leased a 530i, 5 speed, PP, SP, Zenons in April of 03. I have a 3 year lease w/ 45k allowed for 446.90 a month. Ok, let's see here .... carry the 2... ok.. now add that, factor in discount, and the answer is 37%. I will have paid 37% of the selling price to BMWFS to drive this thing for 3 years with 45k allowed. Oh, year, and this covers ALL finance charges. We're talking Maxima territory because of the strong resale and some financing incentives. (BMWSeller, you know the rate I got for April, roll in some MSDs (foregoing 1.9% for a CD) and we have a sweet deal).

    Remember: What matters is what you get and what you pay.

    Happy Motoring,

    Jack
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Member Posts: 200
    joatman spells it out......63% value at 3 years!!

    NBMD.........if you drive the 545, let's face it, you'll probably want it, right? I'd say coming from a maxima that the 530i might be a sufficient enough jump in performance (everything's relative). Don't get me wrong though, I'd want the 545 myself. But, I'm not right about everything. Make sure that you negotiate because MSRP is not a given if you're buying.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Leasing is just a fancy form of renting. The retail leasee has no idea what the depreciation really is on the car. The leasor (who owns the car) finds out when they go to sell the car at the end of the lease. If the amount realized is less than projected, the lease company loses money. There has been a ton of that over the past decade.

    Subsidizing leases is one of the most popular ways automakers boost sales. The stated residual may have no basis in reality. The leasee gets a great deal and the leasor assumes the risk.

    Haven't you read the stories about all the companies burned by their over-optimistic lease residuals?
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Member Posts: 200
    Leasing is not a fancy form of renting. Come on... When you rent does any of the payment go towards the principle? No. When you rent do you have an option to purchase after a set period? No. When you rent is there a new title issued with your name on it? No.

    Leasing is not renting.

    JOATMAN's depreciation was 37% for 3 years. That's a real figure. BMW's leases do have a basis in reality. The high used car prices sustain the lease residuals. So, no one is getting burned here.

    RIEZ, you may consider these facts and realize that renting is not leasing and a 'bimmer lease is not some gimmick brought on to fabricate sales
  • ii31ii31 Member Posts: 24
    Hi,

    It's time to replace tires on my 2000 BMW 540IA
    with sports pkg. It has Dulop Sports 2000E tires.
    Suprisingly, they are all 235/45/R17. I thought
    the rear tires are 255/40/R17?

    I'd like to buy tires which give smooth & quiet
    ride with decent performance. I live in SF Bay
    Area so don't have to worry about snow. Winter
    is usually wet.

    A wheelworks employee recommended Bridgestone
    Turanzas LSZ. Any advise?

    Thanks

    Imran
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    bmwseller... Haven't you ever heard of buying a house or property on contract? Rent to own? When you lease a car, the lease company owns the title to the car. The leasee doesn't get title.

    What percentage of leasees ever buy out the lease? Most walk away. Lease returns fill auction houses and used car lots.

    You keep confusing different things that have nothing to do with depreciation (e.g., MSRP that is different than actual sales price) and confuse the parties involved (retail buyers vs dealers). Depreciation is the difference between what you buy something and what you later get when you sell it. If the leasee doesn't buy the item, they never experience any depreciation. They never owned anything; they never sold anything. They just "rented" the use of the item on agreed to terms. And if the leasee does buy the lease out, they will only later experience the depreciation when they finally go to sell the car they now own to another party.

    Lease residual is an estimate. Whether the residual is achieved only happens when the car is finally sold by the original owner (the leasor) to the next buyer. If that is the leasee, buying at the agreed residual rate per the terms of the lease buyout does not equal depreciation. That just gets the initial cost basis for depreciation for the 2nd owner (the now former leasee). The new owner finds out what the depreciation is when s/he later sells the car to a 3rd owner.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    While it seems like a more than capable performer, it is no M5 (to stay on topic), S anything, or AMG anything. Can we say 0% Financing for 72 months along with $15K off MSRP?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • cmr530icmr530i Member Posts: 278
    I saw my first E60 on the road today while driving home. The first thought that popped into my mind was "it is a curiosity." (Don't know if I'd want the "eyes" on my car looking like a bird's.) I will be visiting my dealer on Saturday for an invitation only event to see it up close. After reading the posts here I am eager to see the interior for myself.

    bmwseller-Do you have any idea when the 1 series will be available for ordering?
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    "Can we say 0% Financing for 72 months along with $15K off MSRP?"

    Still wouldn't buy it. But I wouldn't mind having the Cien... will probably never make it to market... what a shame. This new age of muscle is interesting. Can't wait to see what the next M5 fetches... would not be surprised if it didn't make it to market for 2005 either.
  • joatmonjoatmon Member Posts: 315
    I gave my real world account of how much it's going to cost me to drive my 530i for 3 years. Leasing fixes these costs. If I had bought the car and sold it after 3 years, I wouldn't own it after 3 years either. My cost would be selling price new minus the selling when disposed. Incluse finance charges and you get a number that can be compared to your lease cost. Now, buying the car at the end of the term is an option that I'll look into at lease end.

    My point supported BMWSeller's contention that a BMW has good resale, or low depreciation. I concur. I gave real world testimony that can be substantiated with lease agreements, etc. This lease is from BMWFS. The residual was their going rate at the time. Don't fell sorry for them. They're doing OK last I checked.

    Most people on this forum don't seem to keep their BMWs longer than 3 years, so I suggested leasing as a way to realize the good resale of BMWs and eliminate the risk of market forces.

    As to what percentage of people buy out their lease, what does that have to do with anything? I could easily ask, "What percentage of car buyers keep their cars longer than 3 years?" Again, leasing does give you a known way out of a vehicle. Edmunds is littered with stories about people being "upside down" or "buried". If you do a lease that fits your needs, this isn't going to happen.

    Now, riez, have you been burned, had a lease go bad, or what?

    Six months of sMiles and thirty to go,

    Jack
  • sleepystevesleepysteve Member Posts: 11
    I have a 98 540i 6spd that I just put tires on.
    Bridgestone Potenza RE 750's (235/255). After
    1500 miles no complaints. Replaced Yokohama
    AV db's which only lasted 15k and were very noisy
    after 10k miles. Bridgestone's were recommended
    by Tire Rack where they were purchased from.
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