BMW 5-Series Sedans

microrepair · October 2003

I also had bad luck with the Yoko AV db tires on my E320. Yoko gave me a prorated trade (at 12K miles) and I have had their Avid V4 for over 20K miles and am very happy with them. If you look at Tirerack's website you'll find lots of comments on most tires and right now people are filing lots of good words about the Continental Extreme Contact tires.

riez · October 2003

joatmon... I've never leased a car. Have studied it and looked into doing it for a specific car or two, but not for me. I drive too many miles a year and I deduct my cars for business on actual expense basis.

Issue discussed was depreciation, not leasing. All I'm reminding people is that depreciation is the difference between what you actually pay when you buy something less what you receive when you actually sell that same thing for later in time. You have to look at actual selling prices--both at time or original sale and later resale. Not MSRPs (unless it was sold at MSRP). Nor can you base it on what the dealer resells your trade for. You likely got wholesale; dealer sells at retail. And projected lease residual is not actual depreciation.

Market, vehicle, and other conditions all impact what your realized depreciation will be.

BMWs tend to depreciate less than many (most?) other marques. But most BMWs do depreciate and more than we'd like to think. And the deep lease subsidies, rebates, discounts, financing deals, and other incentives out there today, at or near record levels for many marques, have worked, on average, to lower used car prices in today's market.

joatmon · October 2003

My post has nothing to do with MSRP. My figure was based upon selling price of the vehicle, which was the same regardless of my lease or purchase decision.

I agree that with a lease you really don't own anything. But, few BMW owners seem to own their BMWs for a long term. Hence, my suggestion to "cap" the cost (AKA depreciation) via a lease.

Now, a lease is not for everyone, but a large percentage of BMWs are leased. For the record, I am the exception to the rule. I recently leased a BMW, also recently purchsed a BMW, and just sold a BMW after 17 years of ownership. I've experienced it from many angles, and I think leasing may be worthy of investigation.

Happy Motoring,

Jack

riez · October 2003

Sales for 5 Series holding strong. Would be interesting to see how many E39s vs E60s. New 7 still having trouble.

Make Model September 2003 August 2003 YTD 2003 YTD 2002

BMW 3 Series 5,515 5,526 53,491 50,667
BMW 5 Series 2,911 2,061 33,129 28,932
BMW 7 Series 1,457 1,817 14,410 16,296
29,394
BMW M5 64 28 1,356 1,248

Mercedes-Benz E-Class 4,499 4,113 38,629 23,226
Mercedes-Benz C-Class 4,131 3,537 38,871 34,646
Mercedes-Benz S-Class 2,025 1,622 15,981 14,534

bmwseller · October 2003

Your contention that a BMW depreciates 50% in three years is what started this whole discussion/debate. Admit you're wrong or present evedence showing otherwise. It's not a leasing question. Leasing, or conventional finance has nothing to do with depreciation. The car depreciates all the time in some sense, but a five doesn't lose half its value in 3 years.

riez · October 2003

bmwseller... You have me confused with lazura's post at 7624.

If you re-read all my posts on this subject (7589, 7596, 7606, 7627, 7634, 7637, and 7644), you'll see I did NOT mention 50%. Please read them over.

Only numbers I gave were based on my actual experience. My loaded '98 540i6 had an original MSRP around $57,000. She was built in 11/97 and originally sold in 2/98. I bought it CPO at about 52,000 miles in 11/01. I paid about $35,000 for it (but there was a trade-in involved). When I sold her at about 79,000 miles in 9/03, I received about $17,500 for it (but it was a trade in so that isn't exact). So I did lose 50% of what I paid for it in less than 2 years. Since I do not know what the original buyer paid, I cannot calculate depreciation over the first 79,000 miles. I can roughly say that comparing original MSRP to recent sale, she lost around 69% of her value. That was since 2/98 and over nearly 80,000 miles. The next buyer likely will pay over $20,000. That will restart their calculation.

bmwseller · October 2003

my fault. Pricing and value are part of my business. It's not a hobby. I'll bet that 540 was a joy to drive. I'll be more careful next time. sorry

mckennamd · October 2003

The brochure I received from the dealer and Edmunds both list rear seat side airbags as an option of the new 5. However, when I "build my 5" on bmwusa.com I can find no such option. Three years ago, I was in an accident in which I hit my head on the window. I swore I would never buy another car without side airbags. I have two little kids and would like full protection in the rear seats, in addition to the curtain bags. Do you know how you order these?

billbrox · October 2003

Ok...so I finally got a chance to see the new '04 530i, up close and personal....It just so happened to be in the same color scheme as my '03 530i (Toledo Blue/Sand Beige int.)......I chose the '03 back in Feb. based on my views and reviews of the (upcoming) 5'er....I really tried to like her (the '04), but from the outside looking in, she just didn't do it for me......am so glad I bought what I did, when I did.......:) BTW, I read in my manual that there is a first aid kit under the passenger seat, but none exists.......What's up with that?

bmwseller · October 2003

I'd get the rear side air bags for the safety of my children also. www.bmwusa.com is not right on the money all the time for such things and I'm not really all that surprised to hear of such an omission. Rest assured, however, that this option is available (option code 261, $385).

I might also add that head protection system which is standard on the car will protect against head injury. It's a tubular balloon that extends from the A-pillar to the C-pillar and is wrapped in a "sail" type of cover. It's brilliant.

jb_shin · October 2003

Well, it is a well known "feature" that is missing from US spec. cars. If you did ED, then you would have had it while you had the car in Europe, along with the warning triangle. They are then both taken off before being shipped to the US. The first aid kit has something to do with not meeting FDA, or some other Federal regulation. The triangle, I don't know. They are both required by law in Europe.

lazura · October 2003

bmwseller,
I don't use the BMWFS residual numbers to figure depreciation. Those are subsidized leases with bloated residuals (although I will admit these BMW subsidized residuals lower the lease payment to the first owner). I just checked the latest 'unbiased and non-subsidized' residual numbers (via ALG) for a 2004 530i (E60) and it is 52% for 3 years at 15k miles per year (I would never sign up for less than 15K miles per year on a lease). Therefore, at the end of a non-BMWFS finance company lease, I would be able to purchase the $50,000 E60 in three years at $26,000. This can easily be done by finding a leasee that is near the end of his 3-year lease and offering to buy him out by paying the residual (or a little over). Sites such as leasecompare.com and leasetrader.com are great references for this type of transaction.

pat · October 2003

The Finance, Warranty & Insurance board right here in the Town Hall is also a great reference for all things leasing, and in fact, is where this conversation needs to be taken.

Thanks.

nyccarguy · October 2003

I undestand how you wouldn't want to own another car w/o side impact airbags, but they are an option for a reason. I'm not so thrilled with the idea of something coming flying out at a child at speeds around 200mph. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a huge supporter of air bags. There is a reson they tell you not to put children in the front seat in the event of a front end collision and an airbag deployment.

ewcloud · October 2003

The '04 530i that I test drove had a first aid kit in the trunk along with the tool kit.

dwightex · October 2003

am looking for '04 530 or 545ia ED. Does anyone know if there are any leasing incentives going on right not. Not in a hurry, want ED in May, 04

bjoye · October 2003

joatmon,
Please tell me you put down some cap cost reduction on that lease. $446/mo. for a 530 with those options and 15k miles a year? Holy cow. I have an '01 525 with just the convenience pkg. and I've been paying $667/mo. You're killing me.

bjoye · October 2003

Just for the record, my car retailed for $39,9k and I got about 1k off. It's now worth $26k private party sale by kbb, but I see it with comparable mileage for $30k+ at dealers.

mtn723 · October 2003

Dealers are quoting MSRP on the new 5 series. I found one will to sell at $500 off of MSRP. Would like to know what other are paying.

erickpl · October 2003

My 02 325xi has the rear air bags. If you opt for them, they will probably arrive depowered. If your kids are rather young still, you probably want to avoid using them at this point. They will be more effective if your children are older/bigger. I've had to teach mine that sleeping with your head against the window is a BAD thing. It took a quick demo with an air tank, a balloon, and a ball to show them would could happen to their heads.

I was able to have mine activated as both of my kids are older. If you get them with your small kids, you could power them later when they are older. Not much assurance now, but something to consider. If you only have one, you should put them in the middle seat for safety.

-Paul

pat · October 2003

Try reading some of the recent messages in the discussion at this link: BMW 5-Series: Prices Paid & Buying Experience. They should be helpful and that's a great place to ask.

Welcome! Feel free to drop me an email if I can help you find your way around.

mikehags · October 2003

Can anyone tell me when the navigation and the head up display will be available on the new 5 series? any help is much appreciated.....thanks in advance

ewcloud · October 2003

I was told that they would be available in March.

dv8ed · October 2003

I would like to have the Bluetooth option on my new 5 series. What does it take to get it installed? The next cell phone I purchase will be a bluetooth capable phone. Any help is appreciated.

habitat1 · October 2003

If you are willing to go the European Delivery route, you should be able to get $1,200 - $1,500 over the ED invoice on the new 5-series. That works out to about $6,000 under MSRP, not including your travel expenses.

A friend of mine here in DC is doing just that. He was planning to pick up the car in January, but is now considering postponing to April (spring break) so he can take his kids and wife on the trip and also get the nav system.

Going the ED route makes even more sense with a "hot" car that dealers are unwilling to discount for US delivery. My dealer readily admits that he will discount an ED 2004 530i to $1,200 over invoice, but the best he could do for US delivery is $500-$1,000 under MSRP. That is a whopping difference of over $5,000, n/i trip expenses. The ED cars do NOT come out of his precious US allocation, but DO count towards their sales volume/bonuses. That's the best of both worlds for a BMW dealer, hence the willingness to discount.

dwightex · October 2003

I am in DC also, what dealer did your friend go to???

srfast · October 2003

Are you talking E39 or E60? I have BT installed in my 2003 530i.

Regards....JL

ksoman · October 2003

if your car is not bought yet, get it installed before delivery, because the expense of getting a bluetooth set up is much more than the 1000 odd bucks BMW is charging. I have been using BT technology phones and PDA and various other things such as wireless handsfree devices for over a year now and they rock. However, its ridiculous what it costs to make my wife's bmw convertible bluetooth ready... 1000 bucks? the damn sony phone was not worth 200 bucks last year when the technology was blazing new in the market... anyway, it is cool and i think the BT used in the Acura TL is better.

ksso

dzuba · October 2003

It is also available on the 02/03 530 in a "kit". I need to find the article in Roundel from a few months ago - think it was about $600-750.00.

habitat1 · October 2003

My friend lives in PA (Erie) and is going through the local dealer up there, who we know well.

Here in the DC area, according to others, Passport will go to $1,200-$1,500 over ED invoice. I would likely go with VOB or Tischer if they could match that deal, as they are closer to me. I also stopped in Arlington BMW last week to look at the new 5-series and they indicated they would ddiscount ED, but we didn't get into specifics. I'll know a lot more when I actually get ready to buy, but that may not be until next spring and I am not yet sold on the new 5.

Many BMW dealers will not volunteer that ED prices are negotiable. But once they know that you know they are, the pencil comes out.

srfast · October 2003

I've installed the BMW Bluetooth phone kit is my 2003 530i and these are the facts:
1. Available for E39, E46 & X5 with build date of 3/02 or newer.
2. ALL kits are installed at the dealer so prices are the same for kits installed before or after delivery.
3. List price for the kit is $608. I paid $488.00 plus UPS shipping. There are additional brackets required for pre MY2003 cars.

This is a DIY install and it is recommended you have the dealer program the OBC, but my system worked without having to do it.

Check Circle BMW's BT page for more info:
http://www.circlebmw.com/parts/blue/blue.htm

You will need a BT phone and only GSM service is offered on BT phones. GSM service is up and coming, but DOES NOT have the same coverage as TDMA or CDMA service, so do your homework when you are considering BMW BT.

BTW, BT will not be avaibale in the new E60 until December, 2004!

Hope this helps...JL

dan_m_power · October 2003

I saw the new 5 it looks much much better in person then it does in pictures. I have a 528 and I like the old styling alot but the new styling is great its just new.

Check out the Z18 prototype on www.bmwinfo.com its awsome.

magoffi · October 2003

Hello Folks,
I just came from the BMW dealership this afternoon. And i lease the 04 530i including the premium package, sport package, xenon lights which the total came up to $52,770. since this is my first time leasing maybe someone can help out be letting me know if i got a nice deal or not. first of all the guys at the dealership told me that the new 5 series only a few production have the sport package they are not making them anymore. if that's true please let me know. the deal a got on the 530 was $51,270 he knock down $1500.00 of the MSRP. Now i wanted to keep my payment a bit low so i put down $5000.00 after he added up all the other fees the final out of pocket was $6830.00 and my monthly payment is $531.00 a month. Now i normaly buy my cars when i purchase them, my last 2 and put down a great substantial amount on it when buying. Like i said before this is my first time leasing please le me know if i'm paying too much a month and did i put down too much any info will be appreciated thanks.

warthog · October 2003

but the cow's out of the barn already.

530bmw · October 2003

I was offered to extend my warranty to 6-yr/100k miles for $1000 by the dealer. To me, it is $500/year beyond the base warranty 4-yr/50k miles that comes with car. Is this reasonable compared to the price offered on the internet from a decent non-BMW outfit?

More importantly, should I consider extend my warranty at all?

magoffi · October 2003

you think it's way too much.

bentleyfam25 · October 2003

I noted the numbers above on how the 5's are selling. Any numbers on how the new 5's by themselves are selling in the US? I ask because I was looking through the New York Times Car Buyers section this morning. Each Sunday Times ad page is $50K, I think, to buy (maybe a lot more). Very expensive ad space, and I'd assume dealers think carefully about what they feature.

In the ads for the BMW dealers, there were no photos for the E60, and no ad space on the E60 --with exception of one small item on a "2004 525" that used a picture of an E39 (!). All others were well represented with photos, deals, prices etc.

Point: Seems an odd decision to not give prominent space to the newest car in the line. Even if sales were good, I'd think the dealers would give prominent space as a traffic "draw" into the dealers from a new hot car. Anyone with any facts on sales volumes? Is the car being discounted more than usual?

Thanks--

warthog · October 2003

I have no opinion on the transaction. My point is that it's a bit late in the game to be seeking opinions when you've already inked the deal.

hkurte · October 2003

I purchased a new 2003 BMW 525 in August 2003. Today I was looking for the first aid kit under the right front seat and it wasn't there. My question is for anybody who purchased the same car has a first aid kit?

riez · October 2003

magoffi... No way any of us could comment on your lease. It is a complex transaction. You didn't provide any details. For example, how long is the lease term? 2 yrs? 3 3? 4? What is the annual mileage restriction? And what does it cost you to go over that?

I'm not a fan of leasing. Always hard to tell if you got a good deal. Best are when manufacturer is heavily subsidizing the lease. Doubt BMW is doing that right away with new E60.

Seems like you put a huge amount down. $5K plus another $1.8K in fees. One reason to lease is to avoid having to put a lot of money up front into a depreciating asset. If you divide the up front costs by the number of months for the term, what is the monthly allocated cost of these fees?

Did you put down mulitple security deposits? That can save some money, but heard BMW FS was cutting back on that.

Not sure what the dealer told you about the Sport Pkg. BMW is making E60 5 Series with Sport Pkg.

jmezz · October 2003

i need advice on whether to buy snow tires on my manual trans. 525( i live in NJ). i do not have sport package. if i get them do i buy all 4 or just 2 for the rear?any recommendations on where to buy them.

thanks

hstrachman · October 2003

I just bought 2000 528i, the brake dust is a killer. Are Kleen Wheels a good option? What is the bust product to clean brake dust?
Thanks Herb Strachman

magoffi · October 2003

the least was for 42 months, he wanted to give me 12k miles a year i bargain to get the 15k. and the only reason i put down that much was because i wanted the payment in the 5 hundreds. and you're right i'm not a fan of leasing i'm turning 30 in the end of next year and i wanted to treat myself to something i've always wanted to have. as far as it's a done deal it's not quite completed until give the whole deposit. i have the option tomorrow to cancel if i so chooses.

pat · October 2003

magoffi, you may also want to ask in the discussion at this link: Lease Questions - Ask Here. Read through some of the posts there so you get an idea of how much detail you should post in order to get the best advice.

Good luck - let us know how it goes.

magoffi · October 2003

after talking to a few people this weekend they thought it was a nice deal i just wanted to get a few more. right now one of the adds that's running in the paper around in jersey for the bmw x5 3.0 which is less than the 52k for the 530i going for $5580.00 out of pocket $400 plus a month. for 48months.

magoffi · October 2003

magoffi · October 2003

thanks alot i'll check it out to see what's the best way to go, until i give the ok for the check tomorrow i can change my mind at anytime.

nyccarguy · October 2003

When you're giving the dealer that $5000 "down payment," you are essentially giving the dealer (and BMWFS) a capitalized cost reduction. Basically you're just giving them your money early instead of paying an extra $119 a month on your lease. I don't know about you, but I can think of a lot better things to do with $5K than giving it to BMW.

Have you inquired abut leaving the money in multiple security deposits? That lowers your payment by lowering your interest rate (money factor) and you get the money back at the end of the lease.

What is the Money factor the dealer is charging you?

What is the dealer quoting you as a residual value for the end of the 42 months? I think he's quoting you a 57% residual (unless my calculations are off which is possible) which on a brand - new model isn't too bad.

So you're $531 a month really translates into leasing a car for $650 a month.

magoffi · October 2003

the quoting residual was 55% now how do i go about giving the multiple down payment thanks alot i want to get all the info i can because i have not completely ink the deal

bmwmrc · October 2003

I too purchased a new 5 at the end of August and was looking for the first aid kit. It's not there because it doesn't come standard in American shipped cars. Only European.

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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