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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • dabimmerdabimmer Member Posts: 165
    The 2002 loaded the way you say sounds like a great deal to me.I don't think you can go wrong, maybe if they could drop the price just a little to sweeten the deal. There is very little if any difference between the 01,02, 03. Some items that were not standard in 01 were in 02 but basically the 3 models are the very same wonderful car.
  • dabimmerdabimmer Member Posts: 165
    I have a very close friend who got a 2001 M5 from a broker in Wisconsin for ( he says) $40,000 if you can believe it!! It had 30K miles on it when he got it. He had a BMW technician check it out and it is in perfect shape, the interior is show room clean. I've driven it and it is just too unbelievable. If I could get something like that I'd jump at it.
  • bentleyfam25bentleyfam25 Member Posts: 67
    If these are lease cars, BMW took them back at residual, or ~60% of what the original buyer paid for the car. They always mark them up well above residual, so BMW actually sells the car at a profit twice (often a bigger one on the off-lease used car than the orginal new). Example: 3 year old 525 originally sold at $40K is valued at $22K at residual when it goes back into the dealer, but is often put on the market at $30-32 and sold for $29-30 (or more). This is another $7-8K markup over residual. This is a negotiating point: the dealer "invoice" on this lease return is $22K, compared to the "MSRP" sticker of $30-32. So, if the original deal put $2K in the dealer's pocket, the used deal puts in $7K or so. That's a big spread and can be negotiated.

    One comeback from the dealer might be that the original lease was "subsidized", that is, BMW sold the car at an interest rate discount to get the business, and needs to make up the difference on the resale. This is bunk -- most of the money factors proposed work out to 5-6% implied interest rate, so they make $$ on the lease as well.

    Hope this helps--
  • snagielsnagiel Member Posts: 750
    I haven't been in the roundel family for several months, so I suppose I've gotten rusty. Maybe the change with the steering wheel was made for the 2001 model year (when the 530i debuted, and when the E39 lineup received a facelift), but I know that earlier sport package models definitely had the 4-spoke wheels.
  • sergeymsergeym Member Posts: 283
    Looks like you are confusing BMW and BMW dealers, BMW gets car back after a lease is over. Then it needs to sell it to someone who is willing to buy. The buyer may or may not be a BMW dealer and BMW itself may or may not get the residual. E.g. the residual value for my 2002 540ia is $37K. There is no way a 3-year old 540 with 36K miles will bring that kind of money at an auction. BMW (not a dealer) will probably sell it for $30K at best. Then the buyer (a BMW dealer or any other used car dealer) will sell it at a profit for maybe $35-$37K.
  • billbroxbillbrox Member Posts: 41
    Feb. 28, 2003: Prem. Sport, Xenon, Cold Weather, Step. Tax Title, Tags out of the dealer in MD at $48.3.

    Suerte
  • 530bmw530bmw Member Posts: 130
    I am surprised that the 02 540 residual value is only $37k. My 02 530i has a residual value of over $35k based on my discussion with a dealer yesterday. He told me that the value for my specific 02 model has gone up. I am not buying or selling so I know that he was't trying to give me a BS. I am not questioning your number but I am surprising at the gap between the 540 vs 530 of $2k after two years. We all know that when the gap is around $8-10k between theses two model when they are new. Any explanation from anyone on this board?
  • bentleyfam25bentleyfam25 Member Posts: 67
    Just to clarify, the residual is a set price turn-in value on the lease -- it's fixed as a percentage of your sale price and is unrelated to market value (whatever the dealer can sell it for), or trade-in value (whatever the dealer is willing to pay for a car you own and want to sell to him). You know residual value the moment you lease your car.

    Sergy, I see your point about the difference between BMW Finance (who probably auctions the car) and the BMW dealer (who buys from the auction). Good clarification, thanks.

    So, add Sergy's comment to the 525 example I offered earlier. Since Finance will competitively auction it, let's assume they will make a small profit on the car when the dealers try to get it. It is, after all, worth more in the market than the residual, therefore the dealers should bid it up somewhat towards market. So, say another $1-2K goes to Finance and the dealer buys it for $24K. There's still a big spread to negotiate with when the Dealer puts in on the lot for $30+K, and a smart buyer will negotiate for it. I admit I don't know what the auction markup is (anybody here have an idea?), so I don't know how big the negotiable spread is when you haggle with a dealer. Good point, and it'd be great if anyone knows what the auction - retail spread is. Makes a big difference if it's $6K vs, say $1-2K.

    530bmw -- also good points, but I'd again offer the thought on residual vs. market when you were talking to the dealer you mentioned. Residual for a particular car can't "go up" -- it's fixed by contract for the car you leased. Maybe he meant that the latest residual offered by BMW for that particular model had gone up. This is very possible, since it varies all the time by model and the time its offered in the market.

    But judging by your post, I think he used the word residual when he meant market (or maybe he meant trade-in) value, which could be very true for the particular car you own and varies all the time.

    Anyway, if anyone know the auction-retail spread, it could be very helpful to the used-BMW buyers out there.

    Wonder when Edmunds is going to boot this dialog over to the "prices paid" thread :> ?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    This is a general discussion about anything 5-Series related.

    :)
  • pocketpc101pocketpc101 Member Posts: 5
    Is it normal for my car to roll back when parking on a 3-5 degree drive way, when I apply just the hand brakes with out putting the car into P? One more question, I can hear my brakes when I use the foot brakes at a stop light, it that normal? It’s not supper loud but I can hear a grinding noise. I use to own a Honda Prelude and when I apply the foot brakes it was silent.

    Thank you,

    pocketpc
  • msealsmseals Member Posts: 257
    It might be normal for a car to roll back on a 5 degree angle. I feel so stupid for saying this, but I forgot to put my car in gear and also forgot to put the parking brake on, I have a 5sp. Well I get a knock on my door and it is the police. They told me my car rolled back into the street and up the driveway of my neighbor across the street! It tapped her Chrysler Concorde and then rolled back into the street. I was shocked!!! Fortunately there was no damage and my street is not busy at all, the police officer just said that it was blocking traffic and made sure I put the parking brake on when I parked.

    About the brakes, grinding is not normal, have a shop check it out. I have heard that it is common for the OEM brakes to sqeal if there are no shims or anti-squeal compound. But after market pads will fix that. I just did my front brakes for $160 and that included rotors, pads, sensor and anti-squeal compound.
  • jsrose1jsrose1 Member Posts: 1
    Has anyone driven a new 5 (a/t not manual) on snow or ice? How did it drive? With or without dedicated snow tires? I live in the upper midwest and although others claim past rwd vehicles to be "no problem", it's a different story when you drive on roads that remain icy for months. I appreciate the feedback. My 330xi with Blizzaks is perfect, however, I'm looking for a larger (although marginally with the 5) vehicle. Thanks.
  • fla528fla528 Member Posts: 17
    My 528 with premium package and CPO warranty with 100k miles or 12/10/2005 I just purchased for $26k.
    Here is my question, my 323 had the sports/premium package, and the drivers seat was very comfertable with built in lumbar support.
    However, the 528 has no (or it seems like) lumbar support. I have noticed that a lot of 5 series did not come with the comfort seat which has power adjustable lumbar, and I miss my seat in the 323.
    I have a hard time adjusting the seat to make the lumbar better. In addition, last week I had my car in for service and the loaner was a 2002 325, and the drivers seat was more supportive than my 2000 528..!!!!!
    I mentioned this fact to the service writer and she acknowledged that she had head the same complaint from other customers that had gone from a 3 series to a 5 series..!!

    Has anyone here find the similar problem and how do you go about improving the lumbar support......?????
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I once heard a German automotive engineer explain the difference between German and American drivers: "Germans don't care if the brakes squeal-just as long as they stop the car. Americans don't care if the brakes stop the car-just as long as they don't squeal."
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I wonder what bmw/seller/wife/acolyte would have to say regarding this: http://autoextremist.com/page2.shtml#Rant
  • 530bmw530bmw Member Posts: 130
    You are correct about the residual value. They meant the market residual value has gone up not the contract residual value. Negotiating with dealers on used car's prices is not an easy thing to do since you don't really know what the mark-up is on each car. That is why I stop buying used cars anymore, and even if I want to buy a used car I think a private sale is a better way to go, IMO.
  • mspbimmermspbimmer Member Posts: 1
    I have seen several questions throughout the site asking for recommendations on winter tires. For what it's worth, I'll offer my two cents. I recently had some Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires installed on my 1999 528i sport. Nokian is a Finnish company. I am happy to say that so far the tires have exceeded my expectations! (I had Blizzaks on my previous bimmer...a 330ci) Minneapolis recently had a bunch of snow, so I was able to test them out. Stopping is excellent, and so is acceleration. I was able to "get up and go" as well as or better than the SUV pigs. Yesterday I drove over 400 miles on dry pavement at 80 - 90 mph, and they were smooth and comfortable. My independent mechanic recommended them, saying I would love them. He was right.
  • bentleyfam25bentleyfam25 Member Posts: 67
    I agree with your points, including private purchases. I guess is annoys me to know that the car that was turned in for around $25K is on the lot the next day for $10K more. Someone who hasn't figured it out gets shafted. But, that's the car sales biz....

    Happy Thanksgiving, all--
  • karmikankarmikan Member Posts: 116
    Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. I recently saw an interview with the CEO of Toyota. When asked what he saw as Toyota's biggest challenge, he responded "avoiding complacency". A savvy guy.

    If Helmut Panke really believes what he says, BMW's biggest challenge is avoiding arrogance and they're doing a rotten job to date.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.
  • herr_shnellherr_shnell Member Posts: 4
    Steer clear of the 2004 BMW 5-series or you will be sorry.

    Cars delivered to the US will NOT come with options as you order them because BMW is now substituting cheaper quality parts without disclosing this to prospective buyers. You may order a wood interior trim package, and BMW will supply you with a plastic one instead.

    Their customer service is terrible, and they will not help you with this as well as other inadequacies of the vehicle. A new model year is DEFINITELY not the time to be buying a car ESPECIALLY a BMW.

    Reports are coming in of breakdowns in active steering mechanism and electronics. This coupled with the fiasco called "iDrive" makes this a BAD CHOICE for a new vihecle. Wait a couple years for BMW to fix the MANY BUGS in this model.
  • casey103casey103 Member Posts: 11
    Is there a definitive way to detemine whether or not I have the Sport PAckage on my 98 528i. I keep going back and forth as I read the postings. I have 17" BBS BMW wheels but I don't have the 3-spoke steering wheel that I thought was the litmus test. Does anyone know? Would a dealer know if he entered my VIN into the BMW computer system. I've had the car for a month and love it. It's been a long time. My last BMW was an 81 320i.
  • dantlodantlo Member Posts: 106
    I had a 98 528i sports pkg and it did not have a 3 spoke steering wheel either. I think the only way to tell is by the shadowline trim around the window and bumpers. I now have a 99 540i sports pkg and it does have the 3 spoke steering wheel.

    Yes the vin number should be able to tell and if you try to register Owner's circle on BMWUSA.COM web site. After you enter the Vin it should tell you.

    Dan
  • pearl85pearl85 Member Posts: 4
    I believe the residual value is actually a percentage of the MSRP not the sales price.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    casey103... I wouldn't panic. The contents of the Sport Package have varied significantly by model and model year. My '98 540i6, which had the sport pkg standard, had a 4-spoke steering wheel. Don't think the 3-spoke steering wheels were available in '98. And, in my car's case, the original owner opted to go with the optional 16-way comfort seats rather than the standard 10-way sport seats. Big mistake. The sport seats were cheaper and better. Go figure. There used to be less equipment in the Sport Pkg. And BMW has made the Sport Pkgs more like getting M-type equipment.
  • erk5erk5 Member Posts: 21
    Anyone know where I can find E60 perf.#s with and without the sports package?
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    erk5... All you have to do is check out the automotive press in USA and Europe. Numbers are starting to roll in in USA. Latest issue of C&D has their full test on 530i.

    But you have to keep in mind the plethora of E60s available: 3 engines (2.5, 3.0, and 4.4), 3 6-speed transmissions (manual, SMG, and AT), and optional Sport Pkg (which brings active steering and active roll stabilization).

    The January '04 C&D is a 6-speed manual 530i with Sport Pkg. 0-60 mph in 6.7 seconds. 1/4 mile in 15.2 secs. at 93 mph. Pulled 0.90g on 300 ft skidpad. Braked from 70 mph in 167 ft. MSRP for their loaded car was a whopping $56,145!

    This issue also has their test of new Acura TL: 6-speed manual, LSD, all-season tires. 0-60 mph in 5.7 secs. 1/4 mile in 14.4 secs. at 99 mph. Pulled only 0.81g. Braked in 189 ft. MSRP of $35,195.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Spent 2 weeks in Miami & Key West this month and week home with family. Caught up on some old newspapers. Noticed today that the Omaha Lexus dealer who took my '98 540i6 (80,000 miles) in trade back in September is still trying to sell it. He hasn't been able to unload it in 9 weeks of trying. Still asking $23,000 in his ad.
  • mlock6mlock6 Member Posts: 22
    This is a great car that I bought. The main concerns that I had before buying was the I Drive and the styling with the Titanium grey finish. I made no mistake with the color. It brought out all the styling features and IMO is the best combination. The I Drive is very simple to use. Read the manual like you should with any other car. It can be a little tricky, however, so can computers. If you can use a computer, you can use the I Drive. I accomplished using the system in one hour max. I do not have many miles on it at this time(250ml), but so far it's great. I read alot of posts here, some bad and good. I took everything into consideration before buying. Don't let any negative post steer you away from this great car.
  • george94george94 Member Posts: 75
    I would appreciate anyone thoughts about it. I have 03 530 SP, 5 sp and live in New England. I have driven rear wheel cars since I was 18 in snowy Europe probably under conditions most of you can't imagine.
    However, my BMW comes with these ContiSport which are NOT recommended for winter. Based on my research most people don't like these tires even in the summer as they tend to be noisy when they get over 10 - 15K old. Here is my dilemma.
    1. do I try it out with these tires for the first winter here
    2. do I buy winter wheels
    3. do I buy all season tires.

    Looking over tirerack.com I see Bridgestone Turanza LS-H which are better rated for summer, winter, traction, noise etc...Should I simply throw away these conti tires (I have 6K on them)? I have a feeling these wont' last long based on what I am reading about them...

    Any thoughts?
    Thanks
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    The Bridgestones you refer to are H-rated tires. I'm pretty sure your sport pkg comes with at least V-rated tires. I wouldn't go with a lower speed rated tire.. That said, I have the Turanza LS-H on my Acura Legend, and highly recommend them.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    For RWD car, you'll always be better off in winter with dedicated snow tires. And summer tires in the other 3 seasons. "All-season" tires really do nothing that well compared to the other two types of tires. They are the classic compromise: They do nothing great, some things mediocre, and some things poorly.

    BMW, like other premium marques, seems to have a lot of tire noise and wear issues. Buyers expect perfection. They want noise-free high performance with little wear. Ain't gonna happen. You read this in press reviews, on web, etc. Not sure they often have much to do with the tires. BMW doesn't recommend tire rotation. So if one tire is wearing "wrong" in a particular place it happens that much sooner. Also, it is hard to rotate those BMWs with staggered tires (i.e., the backs are bigger thant the fronts).

    Seems like a lot of the noise and wear issues are tied to the way BMW sets up the front and rear suspensions. Things like camber, toe-in, etc. These impact tires.

    I recommend at least annual 4-wheel alignments to set suspension components to factory spec or any updated spec.

    My '98 540i6 had Yokohamas (think Decibels?). I did a 4-wheel alignment at less than about 10K of use. But they wore poorly. Terrible tire noise after about 10K. When the tires were pulled, you could see the inside wear on at least 3 tires. Likely due to suspension set up. They were properly mounted, balanced, and inflated. No problems with suspension set up. I replaced them with Continental ContiSportContact 2s. These eliminated the tire noise. Sold car off at about 6k of use. So couldn't tell if the type tire was an issue.

    Aren't 330i and 530i speed governor limited to 130 mph? Even with Sport Pkg? Thought only 540i6 and 540ia Sport, M3, and M5 had the higher 155 mph governor limit.

    Not too many affordable snow tires in ZR, V, or Y speed ratings. Nothing wrong with right-sized H-rated snow tires. Who drives at or above 130 mph in winter?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    You are correct about H-rated snow tires.. that would be fine.. The Bridgestones he mentioned are all-season touring tires, though... I think he was planning on making those his every day tires.. I wouldn't do that on a car designed with V-rated tires in mind. Its not just the top speed, its greater capability through the whole performance envelope.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • jbianjbian Member Posts: 10
    I thought someone posted this information a while ago. But I cannot find it anymore. Does Anyone have the prices? Thank you very much, and happy holidays.
  • bentleyfam25bentleyfam25 Member Posts: 67
    From BMW tips chat. Compare Nov. '02 E39 sales to Nov '03 E60 sales for each model. Indicates significant sales uptrend vs. like model last Nov (full year figures don't compare).

    I put in // to separate, since the fonts don't format in tables on Edmunds.

    Happy motoring---

    Sales figures published today by BMW NA are as follows:

    MODEL // NOV 03 // YTD 03 // NOV 02 // YTD 02
    525i // 52 // 14,080 // 875 // 12,089
    525i sport wagon // 25 // 1,169 // 175 // 1,470
    525 (E60) // 1,197 // 1,651 // 0 // 0
    530i // 20 // 14,762 // 1,278 // 17,447
    530i (E60) // 1,908 // 4,878 // 0 // 0
    540i sport wagon // 1 // 259 // 36 // 309
    540i // 7 // 3,632 // 359 // 4,292
    545i (E60) // 649 // 881 // 0 // 0
    M5 // 29 // 1,427 // 165 // 1,536
    TOTALS // 3,888 // 42,739 // 2,888 // 37,143
  • george94george94 Member Posts: 75
    yes, I was thinking about replacing the conti summer tires with bridgestone turanza (they make them h, v or z rated, by the way) for all seasons. Based on the reviews this tire is all year better pick. Any thoughts?
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    george94... IMHO, the only good all-season tire is the one not on my car. Only way to go is summer tires and winter tires. If you can afford the 5 Series, why skimp on tires?
  • george94george94 Member Posts: 75
    understand your point. I am trying to be practical not cheap...
  • chrism124chrism124 Member Posts: 134
    I also live in New England and own a 03 530i with the SP (conti's) & 5-spd. To put it simply, these tires cannot and should not be used for driving in snow and/or on ice. Changing to All Season tires can be an option but be aware that it presents a compromise in handling. The best solution would be to stay with the conti’s (or upgrade to Michelin Pilots) for non-winter use and buy a set of tires/rims for winter use. The cost would be roughly $1k for 4 tires & rims. I am using Blizzak WS-50’s (225 55 16) on Borbet rims.

    Curious, how did your car fair in today’s snow squall. I believe we are going to receive another batch this weekend.

    Regards,
    Chris
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    Too lazy too search back.. but, are your current Continentals in good shape? If its time to replace them, you could certainly try a performance all season tire (is that an oxymoron?). If they are still good for another year or more, and you are worrying about winter driving, It would probably be just as practical to go ahead and get winter tires.
    If it was me, and if you are concerned about cost, you could always just put the tires on the rims you have now, and save the cost of getting dedicated wheels. Even though you are sacrificing some traction by going with 17" snow tires, the difference will still be dramatic in snowy conditions, and your handling should be even better with the factory wheels and stock tire size. After trying them for the first season, you could then decide if its worth getting dedicated rims. Of course, if your Contis are worn out, then the decision to get winter tires is tougher, as you will have to lay out for new tires again in March.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • vsaxenavsaxena Member Posts: 211
    When I was looking at a pre-owned private party 528, I called BMW USA with the VIN and got the exact description of the factory installed packages. 5 minutes and you have all the information!
  • george94george94 Member Posts: 75
    Chrism124 - my commute is short one -:( as I take the commuter rail to town. So, the snow squall yeasterday did not impact me at all. I called my dealer and they said 16" tires/rims are not recommended. They priced me with their 17" package for $3,800. I know tirerack has the best price. I might as well go with them and get the same package as you do. How do you find your winter wheels? Are they noisy?

    kyfdx - my conti are in great shape. I have about 6K on them and they look brand new. I read posts about the quality of these tires going down the hill after you reach 10 - 15K. This is why I started the debate about going with all season vs summer/winter wheels. Looks like the advise is to stick with the summer and winter tires.
    I appreciate the help from all of you.
  • jbf5jbf5 Member Posts: 32
    For those of you who switch to Winter tires and wheels, what do you do with your Summer set? Will the tire dealers store them? If not, can you fit four tires/wheels in the trunk to get them home?
  • chrism124chrism124 Member Posts: 134
    The TireRack recommended that I use a 16" tire/rim. The overall diameter is the same as the 17" tire/rim that comes with the Sport pkg. To be expected, the handling is not as crisp when driving on dry roads. But the snow and ice traction is suburb. There is not a lot of road noise transmitted into the cabin. If I were to purchase another set of tires, I would look at either the Alpins or LM-22’s. I have heard from others that both offer better dry road handling.

    When it comes to the proper size tire to use, I would trust the recommendation from the TireRack before my BMW service advisors. They have conducted extensive testing (especially on BMW’s). Good luck with your decision.

    Regards,
    Chris
  • sergeymsergeym Member Posts: 283
    Got a set of 16'' wheels w/225-55 Dunlop M2 tires from tirerack last year for $1,000 and had no problems so far. Dealer wanted something like $3,000. As too fitting 4 wheels in the trunk - maybe if you have a vagon. Sedan can only fit ONE wheel unless you take out the spare.
  • erk5erk5 Member Posts: 21
    will changing the tires affect the warranty or the tire pressure monitor? Has anyone asked bmw or their dealer this?

    Maybe if reputable rims like breyton or AC Schnitzer were used, it'd be ok?
  • aggie76aggie76 Member Posts: 266
    While I don't have a 5, my local tire dealer stores my off-car set of tires for me at no charge and does so willingly. I just call him a day before I want to get them mounted and he pulls them out of the storage area, checks the balance and it takes about 20 -30 minutes to remount them in spring or fall.
  • hoopsrefhoopsref Member Posts: 140
    I had been reading the posts here for months and have not been on in a while. It seems like the majority of you have recommended going with dedicated snow tires & rims. I live south of Boston and I have been searching the web sites & local dealers for months. some "deals" have gone by or supplies "dried up". I have a 530 w/SP and ordered a set of Conti TS 770's ($159 ea. + $2.75/ value stem + $9.95/ computer balancing) and Borbet wheels @ $149 each for a total of $1282.80 plus MA tax $62.15. I ordered these from local Town Fair tire in Plymouth. Any comments on pricing, tires, trims... are welcome. Thanks for your help in advance.
  • chrism124chrism124 Member Posts: 134
    I am not familiar with the TS 770's and therefore cannot say if it would be a good snow tire. I roughly paid $1200 for 4 tires/rims (Borbet type B) plus mounting. In September I made the purchase through the TireRack and had my local dealer, being BMW of Peabody, perform the swap. It worked out well as they gave me a loaner car plus my car received a much needed bath. My experience is that the TireRack has the best prices and any local shop will be higher. Did you call the TireRack?

    I do like the look of the Borbet rims. Not as nice as the stock Sport rims but it blends in well with the car.

    Regards,
    Chris
  • ndegroat1ndegroat1 Member Posts: 11
    I have a 98' 528i with about 158k miles. Recently I have noticed that it has been idling a little funny (idling high, then low to remain on), it will not stay running while warming up in cooler temps. I first noticed it around the 55 degree mark. We live in a pretty cool climate and the house does not have a garage yet...what needs to be looked at here? No lights have come on the dash to have it checked out. Shop said nothing came up on the computer....
  • george94george94 Member Posts: 75
    I just ordered a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 plus rims. The total came to 1070 and I will get $40 rebate for tires. So, when all done the total came up to 1030. I can't wait to try them. We are suppose to get 6 inches over the weekend. Too bad I wan't have them on yet. Thanks for all help
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