BMW 5-Series Sedans

mbukukanyau · March 2004

Lets see

Though beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, Cadillac in my opinion is far much more imposing than the 5 series.
I like the previous five, but this one is sort of over the top. Sort of like Aztek

designman · March 2004

STS looks good in that 3/4 frontal view shot with a long lens. However, it suffers in full profile and rear view... very vanilla as seen in the shots from post #8634. Too bad. Cadillac does a great job with their concept prototypes but they chicken out when it comes to production cars.

E60 looks like different things at different times to me. Today it looks like a chrome party balloon. The BMW catalog characterizes the headlamps as "eyes of a raptor". They look more like pigeons pecking at food.

div2 · March 2004

I can't decide whether this guy is a pathological liar or simply a brain-dead moron:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=6008&item=2468828357

mbukukanyau · March 2004

I would have a problem spending $19 K on a car with 84300 miles on it.
Plust its a bid thingi. you make an offer and the seller accepts or rejects it.

warthog · March 2004

brain-dead moron theory. Could you post the polling results?

warthog · March 2004

Re: the new 5's appearance, my take is that the front end looks for all the world like those women with 1950's swept-up pointy eyeglasses that the cartoonist Gary Larson used to draw in The Far Side. When I look at the car from the front, I can think of nothing else.

div2 · March 2004

Autoweek thinks the E60 headlights are copies of Dame Edna's glasses. Methinks they are right; see: http://www.dame-edna.com/

nyccarguy · March 2004

he's definitely brain-dead!

xmf314 · March 2004

You can't compare the E60 to Dame Edna. Dame Edna is much better looking.

warthog · March 2004

Perfect!

bmwmrc · March 2004

IMO, the new E60's front headlights look like Dame Edna's eyes. OUCH!

bmwmrc · March 2004

that xmf314 already brought it up. Like minds I guess.

Anyway, to others out there regarding impending changes to the BMW 7, 3 and 5 series. Any new links to check out the changes?

BTW, I own a 2003 5 series and love it! My second one.

sdg380 · March 2004

bmwmrc, maybe you're familiar with this one, but they seem to have pretty good info:

http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm

bmwmrc · March 2004

No, I had not been to that site before. The modified look of the 7 series front facelift looks better, as in more like the previous (2003) 5 series. The body from the front looks less bulbous, but have they changed that dreaded and horribly conceived trunk?

And what about changes to the 5 series? Are they getting rid of the Dame Edna eyes, the Pontiac grills, and the awful humpback whale trunk lid?

Do you know if the interiors are going to be less austere and more luxurious like my 2003 5 series?

Finally, it appears as if maybe, just maybe, BMW is finally getting the message that many of us HATE the Bangle Bungled design. Of course it took horrible unanimous press coverage and flat or lower sales figures to do the talking, but I think that's a good thing.

Again, thanks for the site.

sdg380 · March 2004

...glad if you like the site, was one of the first places I saw decent pix of the "controversial" E60.

As far as 5-series changes, wouldn't surprise me if they give it a face-lift, ala the new 7, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for anything before '06 or'07 model, at the earliest, seems to me they've got to amortize that tooling. And I just don't think they'll be going back, as far as interiors, I think we're all going to have to suck it up and learn to use iDrive, and live with the rest of the update. But in the meantime, the Dame Edna/Gary Larson jokes have been most amusing!

designman · March 2004

"I think we're all going to have to suck it up and learn to use iDrive..."

I live with a lot of things I don't like about BMW and can certainly live with iDrive. This is what many of us do for the ride. What I can't live with is the new look. This is where I draw the line. I would even switch to the new 3, 6 or 7 if they offered something more aesthetically pleasing, but they're all dogs.

What's amazing is that for the longest time I would have been happy with ANY BMW SEDAN. Man have times changed.

I can live with boring, but Jack Nicholson... I mean div2... was right. I can't handle ugly.

atomicpunk · March 2004

I'm generally as bored with [non-permissible content removed]-for-tat arguments over styling as I am with the E39's design. So I'll avoid the "I like mine better than yours" debate.

Not sure what to make of your "speculation" that a supposed re-design of the E60 is not far off. If you have any facts to support the point, I'd be interested in hearing them.

You're objectively wrong in your belief that Honda copied the BMW cues. The E39 exterior is nearly a carbon copy of the '95 Honda Accord. The photos don't lie. And I'm sure you know when the E39 came out...

As always,
I am...
the ATOMICPunk!

kyfdx · March 2004

I don't doubt that the E39 has styling cues that you can see on the '95 (actually '94-'97) Accord, but Honda has been copying BMW styling since way before that. The 2nd generation Accord that debuted in '82 was an extensive copy of the BMW 320i ('77-'83 version). I would say Honda mimicked BMW styling pretty much continously from the early '80s through the current Civic.
I don't see much BMW styling in the current Accord though.. Which may not be a positive for Honda. It may be the ugliest Accord sedan they have ever made. And I'm a fan of both makes.

regards,
kyfdx

karmikan · March 2004

Sorry Punk, I don't have anything but a string of circumstantial clues for my speculation on an e60 re-design:

- After the 7, 5 & 6 all bearing a strong family resemblance, spy shots of upcoming models show a distinct shift back to more traditional BMW cues, almost no Bangle-type influences.

- Spy shots of the 7 "freshening" show that it's actually a significant re-design, particularly at the front and rear. The characteristic Bangle cues seem to have been removed or moderated.

- The 7 has been available for less than 3 years, the re-design is well ahead of BMWs normal schedule.

- Autoline Detroit had a piece on Bangle's "promotion". Apparently, his replacement is Adrian von Hooydonk who is head of BMWNA Designworks. This is being positioned as a normal succession by BMW but no-one has been considered for Hooydonk's job yet. Autoline sees Bangle's replacement as an emergency move, not normal succession.

Following the 7's re-design schedule, and bearing in mind the above clues to a shift in design philosophy, a re-design for the 5 could be reasonably expected around mid '06. Not too concrete but reasonable speculation.

kyfdx · March 2004

That's a joke, right? LOL

designman · March 2004

"The E39 exterior is nearly a carbon copy of the '95 Honda Accord."

These cars are nowhere CLOSE to looking alike.

karmikan · March 2004

No joke, he's Dutch.

savora · March 2004

Hi,
I am anxiously awaiting the delivery of my 530i silver gray/black.
I had a couple of questions.

1) What type of extended warranties were offered? How much? 3rd party or BMW? This is my first non-japanese car, and I am concerned about potential future costs.

2) Any information on when bluetooth accessory kit will be available? Any quotes on approximate price? (btw, ON 3/12 I received an e-mail from BMWNA stating that my car would not have the prewiring in, over the weekend, a second e-mail stated that my car would have the prewire in.)

3) As far as type of phone, BMW states that T68i,T610,T616, Nokia 6310i, and Siemens s56/55 have been tested. I think these are GSM phones, does that mean the T608i (sprint pcs bluetooth phone) that is CDMA, won't work?

3) Any other unexpected charges at time of closing?

4) Anyone has been able to connect ipod to stereo? (non transmitter) Would I be better off going to car stereo shop to see if they can provide an interface?

Thanks in advance.

riez · March 2004

savora... BMW does NOT offer an extended new car warranty. (Closest thing in this area is their CPO program for used BMWs bought at BMW dealers.) You can buy an extension on the maintenance period (covering things like oil changes, brakes, fluids, filters, etc.).

savora · March 2004

How much are they asking for? It is possible that a major mileage checkup would be included, along with possible brake pad/rotor repair. It could be worth it.

riez · March 2004

savora... Ask your selling dealer. Negotiate the price. Assuming you can roll it into the purchase agreement and can finance it, if you are financing your purchase.

banglenot · March 2004

Folks,

Just thought I'd share my E60 replacement for the summer. I like the E60, but love this design. 1100cc, 115 hp, liquid cooled Porsche-HD engine.

Amusing -- the old Harley drivers don't like this one much, either. It's too radical for a lot of them. Lesson for BMW owners on design evolution...

http://i7.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/88/f0/1c_1_s.JPG

BTW, this Board is so much better than the insanity on Roadfly. Sometime some good info there, but too often trolls and rants...

Hope this one doesn't go that way.

Take care--

cassidym · March 2004

Savora, did you get the sports package? What other options? Manual or automatic?

I seem to recall seeing something at my local dealers about Bluetooth being available in the autumn and that you will be able to have your car retro-fitted with it.

savora · March 2004

I ordered 530i with auto, xenon, premium sound. BMW website says that it is now "en route". I drove the sports package and thought it was nice, but not enough to justify the $3300 upgrade. I spent my money on the lexicon sound system instead. As far as bluetooth, it appears that bmwna is stating that cars will be prewired for bluetooth and that the accessory kit will be available (likely september). When the car is received, it should include a card that lists bluetooth associated #'s. No word on costs for the accessory kit.

billbrox · March 2004

I recall someone inquiring about the new iPod and whether or not the accessory kit works in the 530i. Ideally, one would want the accessory kit mounted in the glovebox. Any info would be mucho appreceado. Gracias.....

cassidym · April 2004

Just had a salesman at one of the local dealers confirm BMW NA will introduce an AWD 5-Series in March 05 production. No word as to which models this will be available on or whether it will simply be an option on the existing 5-Series or a separate model unto itself like the xI is in the 3-Series. Apparently their Marketing Department is still sorting this out. You'd think they'd introduce it in the autumn rather than spring. Go figure.

vsaxena · April 2004

It was interesting to read the posts comparing the 525 to the 530 when it comes to the driving experience. I have a 2003 E39 525. I bought it at the end of August and then there wern't too many 530s available. I do wonder whether the extra horses in the 530 would have helped. Here is my take.

On the 525, I do not notice a lack of power in the 0-60 range of normal highway driving. I would not have any issue with additional power; however I do not need it.

In the rare occassion where I really want a kick I use the manual shifting in the sports mode to rev up the engine and get a burst of acceleration. I presume that in the 530 this would not have been necessary since the engine itself packs enough reserve power to give me the acceleration I want. This means that unlike the 530, the 525, gives me the chance to use the manual shifting in regular freeway driving.

In a way the less power in the 525 allows me to have more fun in my day to day driving, where the legal limit is 65 MPH (but you can get away with 80). I guess the situation is different when you are driving in Montana or the AutoBahns where the absolute speed is not an issue.

The real fun in the E39 is in the handling with the Sports Package; the car sticks to the road, in a straight line regardless of sharpness of the curve. Last weekend while coming back from Tahoe, I would always beat out the other cars in the pack (lot of luxury brands) on the curves. Sure they could accelerate to 90 on the straights (and risk a ticket), but very few could keep with my E39 525 on the curves I was carving them up without ever having to lift my foot from the gas.

If I ever had to chose again between the Sports Package vs more Horses, I will go with the Sports package anyday. Unless you are racing or have the option of not watching the speed-o-meter, the 525 with Sports is, IMHO, a better value than the 530 without sports.

shipo · April 2004

I have a fair amount of seat time in the following cars, slowest to fastest, all 5-Speed:

2001 325i
1999 528i
1999 328i
2002 530i

I'm not wanting to start another war revolving around the relative performance of these two fine cars like we had here a couple of months ago, however, my take was that you had to wind the 2.5 liter mill pretty tight to generate any decent (by my own personal butt dyno) acceleration.

In late 1998, when I drove the two 1999s, I was coming out of a 1995 VR6 Passat GLX 5-Speed, and found that the 528i was not as capable as the Passat at the low end, while the 328i was noticeably quicker than the Passat. That's the one that I ordered.

In late 2001, I swapped my 328i with the 325i of another TownHall member for a day and a half, during which time we flogged each other's cars through the winding semi-mountainous roads of southern Upstate New York. I found that the 325i just did not have the torque that I like, forcing me to keep the car down a gear (sometimes two) to get anywhere near the acceleration of my 328i.

During the spring of 2002 I transitioned to my 530i (which I picked up in Munich via the ED program) from the 328i, having both for a period of almost 6 weeks (including the four that the 530i spent on the boat), and so I had a chance to alternate between the two. What a difference the 0.2 liters made in that car. Back in 1998, I had felt that the 1999 528i was too slow, slower than my old Passat, and significantly slower than the 328i, on the other hand, the 530i was noticeably faster than the 328i.

I don't know if my car is atypical however, during a test drive to check out the new Drive-by-Wire software that my dealership put in when the 530i was about six months old, the mechanic commented, "Damn, this thing is fast, it feels like it's in 540i territory."

I thought that was a funny comment so I said, "It's probably just because mine is a 5-Speed."

"Nope," he responded, "I drive a dozen or so 5-Speed 530i(s) a week, and this one really feels like a non-SP 540i."

To this day, I have no idea whether he was blowing sunshine up my skirt, but he did sound genuinely surprised.

So, is there really that much difference between a 525i and a typical 530i? Hmmm, don't know for sure. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

vsaxena · April 2004

I am sure the more powerful E39s pack a better punch than the 525s. The context of my observation is with regards to the regular use of my E39 (freeway commuting, highway leisure travel).

Another aspect to consider is the Auto vs Manual. You drive manuals where you have much greater control over the car and where stuff like the power of the engine can (and does) make a big difference in the driving experince.

In my day to day driving, I do not feel the "NEED" for more power. If I had more, I would have certainly take it; no questions asked. The slightly "underpowered" 525 requires more effort (fun) to get the most. For me, it is thrilling to move the gear lever to Sports, shift down a gear, and see the engine rev and the car kick off. This might be routine for a person who drives a manual. However, for your typical automatic driving, free way commuter (like me), "shifting down" is thrilling! I would rather sport shift down on my 525(Auto), than just press on the gas on the 530 (Auto).

My other observation was regarding where to put the extra $3K- 525 with Sports or 530 without Sports. I would take Sports anyday. In my case, the E39 was a unexpected present. My initial limit was $30K and the 3 series was too tiny for me. Then my old car got totalled, BMWNA dropped in $3.5K and my local dealer was sitting on a lot full of 525s, contributing to me spending 20% extra to get the E39. So for a "move-up" buyer, who is watching the check book, but wants a piece of the "Ultimate Driving Experience", I would recommend a 525 with Sports, instead of a 530 without it.

OTOH, if you are in the market for a 5 series and do not mind paying for what you want, clearly, the 530 provides the best "money to power" value. If I can buy 530 with Sports, there is no decision to make.

And finally, if your first Bimmer is a 530 where do you go next?

shipo · April 2004

Regarding the power differences, I think that it's time for me to "Zip it". ;-)

Regarding the SP, I concur, in my case I got a 530i 5-Speed, Xenon, Premium Audio, PP and SP. The SP is great, simply great, especially on the curvy sections of the Autobahn, tooling along at a "buck and a quarter" or more. ;-)

Regarding where does one go next if their first Bimmer is a 530i? Well, in my case, it was my second, and the lease is up next year at about this time, as such, that very question is weighing quite heavily on me. As I am approaching several career thresholds, my financial situation a year from now may be dramatically changed, and depending upon which path I choose, the "dramatically" part could mean either WAY UP or WAY DOWN. This of course is going to weight quite heavily on my decision next spring.

If the WAY UP happens, I'll probably opt for a 645Ci 6-Speed (three pedal version) and call it a day.

If the WAY DOWN part happens, then depending upon how far down, I'll probably opt to re-lease my 530i or turn it in (that will be a sad day) and replace it with something like a Jetta Diesel, or if things are REALLY lean, resort to driving our old Caravan (our "Trip to the dump and Home Depot" car) full time. :-/

If my situation just treads water, the next new car is likely to be one of the following (in no particular order):

Re-leasing my current mount (which only has 21K miles after two years)
A lightly used E39 540i 6-Speed
A lightly used E39 M5
Dodge Hemi Magnum
Chrysler 300C
Volvo S60R 6-Speed
Infiniti G35 6-Speed Sedan (after the rumored interior upgrade)
Dodge Hemi Charger (assuming it looks anything like the show car)

So, where to now Saint Peter? I have no Earthly idea. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

bmwmrc · April 2004

I too purchased a 2003 525i, (my second one) with PP, xenon and SP and I chose to get the SP instead of the extra hp. I test drove both the 525 and the 530 and could not rationalize the extra 41 hp. Sure the 530i seemed to have a more muscular feel starting from a dead stop, but I didn't really notice a huge difference once it shifted (I have the automatic too) into second gear. In fact the gear ratio torque on the 5 series in general is low and very, very good. So, there isn't a real lag at the start at all. And as you pointed out, the manual shift is a real kick, which I occasionally do use.

I do however, generally drive the car all of the time in sport mode. I just like the feel of it. In the sport mode it certainly doesn't feel as if the car is lacking any power. For the money, I guess I could have gotten the 530 with just the PP and eliminate the SP, because of the extra cost, but I really do like my setup and wouldn't change it. Maybe my next Bimmer (after they change the Bangle bungle) will be either a new 545i or a 7 series. Until then, I'm really enjoying my E39!

clpurnell · April 2004

you might want to add this to your list unless a manual is a requirement.

http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/concept2005/m45.shtml

shipo · April 2004

Nope. If I'm going to get a car without a manual it had better have a Hemi in front of the gearbox. Otherwise, slushboxes need not apply. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

riez · April 2004

Having owned a '98 E39 540i6 and '00 E46 323ia, and thoroughly test driven E39 525ia and 530ia, my conclusion was that the 525ia was an acceleration dog. Almost a lead sled. Too much weight, too little engine, and the slushbox saps too much power.

The 525ia is a decent car. But it just doesn't come close, acceleration-wise, to its competitors or cars in its price range. There is just nothing thrilling about its acceleration performance. Embarrassing, for the money, might be more apt.

Only way to get the most out of the 525i is to go Sport Pkg and manual transmission.

I couldn't imagine the 525ia touring!

bmwmrc · April 2004

I've owned two 5 series BMW's now. I chose the 525 over the 530 PP (w/o SP) because I didn't want to pay the extra $3,500 for 41 more hp. Yes, I agree with you that the amount of hp IS embarrassing for the listed price, which for my car was just under $45,000. But I didn't pay that. I bought the car with the BMW NA incentive and got mine brand new for $37,100 (excl. tax and license). For the price I paid, mine is NOT only a great buy but a great car. And for me in the stop and go world of the Southern California parking lots, er--freeways, the acceleration is more than ample.

One other point: One can get the feel of a manual, when utilizing the manual shift mode. And it's less wear and tear on your knees out here in stop and go land. I know, because I drove manual transmissions for 20 years.

seloo · April 2004

Run the numbers on the Edmunds site. 525 owners will be very happy with the results.

nyccarguy · April 2004

Post your comment as a question on the real world trade in values board here in TH. See what Bill and Terry have to say.

cmr530i · April 2004

My 2001 530i had its power steering hoses replaced (under warranty) on Thursday due to leaks. I had noticed an oily substance on the power steering reservoir.
After reviewing the service dealer invoice at home, I noticed the word "recall" after the word "clamp." I never received a recall notice on this item. Has anyone else received a recall notice or had this same problem?

My 5 also has the sun shades. The manual side shades have one small tear each (about 1/4 inch) in the corners. They are not abused, just normal usage. I was very pleased to learn that BMW will replace them under warranty.

Re What's next?: As a first time BMW owner with my lease up in June, my plan is to buy my car. I need the larger size of the 5 for my family, and can't seem to "fall in love" with the E60 like I did with my E39. I am thinking I'll eventually down size to the 3 series, with the M3 being a real temptation.

george94 · April 2004

As the spring finally arrived to Boston and my summer tires are back on I am planning a little day trip to NH coastline. Do you know any nice roads where you can put in good usage 5sp and SP? I will be with my kids (ages 8 and 10) who absolutely love g-forces. Looking for some quite roads and good lunch stop. Thanks

muddog · April 2004

Picked up my new jet black on tan 545i, with Sports Package, on Tuesday. Very nice car. Been 15 years since I've owned a Bimmer. Came out of a 2001 Mercedes E430,which was a very good car for me.

Early assessment -- BMW more of a "driver's car" (as all of you savants well know). One difference, which I'm hoping will go away (but that may be a function of having 325 horses) -- the E430 has a noticeably smoother gear shift at sub 30 mph speeds. I'm going to try the manual shift feature to see how that feels.

Maybe this is the difference, too, between getting the 530 and the 545 -- the 530 is "better" at low speeds, and the 545 more powerful and "better" past 30 mph?

Any experiences anyone can share?

Thanks.

Muddog

shipo · April 2004

I'm a fairly recent transplant to NH, so I don't really know my way around all that well yet. That said, one of my favorite roads starts in Nashua, NH, and heads west by northwest out past the Nashua airport. That road is called 101A until about East Milford, where it turns into 101. From there, heading northwest toward Peterborough provides nice smooth (at least they were last summer) roads with lots of curves that transition to places where you can open it up a little, and then back into the curves. There are also places where you can take some of the lesser highways that lead to towns that provide nice lunch spots. We took US-202 north out of Peterborough to Route 123 and then into Hancock. There were a couple of charming places in town for the lunch stop.

Have a good trip. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

pen101 · April 2004

Catching up on some topics touched on by some earlier posts this past week....

8 months left on my 36-month lease. I chose the 530i (PP, SP, 5-speed) because of its handling and the driving experience it offers. It is the confidence you get in driving mountain roads or freeways at high speed. No other car that I tested in late 2001 could match the 530i. And I tested a lot of cars. Yet, I would not have chosen the 5-series if only the 528 or 525 were available. The acceleration on these cars was just too sluggish in every day driving. Especially for the price point these cars commanded. And the 540i was not in my budget.

As I look to the end of the lease, I have a very difficult decision to make. Should I buy the car or return the car. If I return the car what then should I get? The 5-series competition is the best yet. Especially now where a new 530i costs over 50K and I am no fan of its new look (gone is that understated refined good looks), or all the gimmicks (i-drive).

I would like to stay with BMW. I had a great ownership experience (other than a premature clutch failure that BMW would not pay for). The car is a dream to drive, gets great gas mileage (25+ city/highway) and looks great. I only wish the new 5 would have been more appealing.

nyccarguy · April 2004

The jerkiness you're feeling is probably today's wonderful slushbox "learning" how you drive. The process may take some time. If it doesn't, then bring the car into your dealer.

pen101 · April 2004

For me, I'd add a few more cars that I would consider (my first choice is always manual):

BMW 3-series E90 (hopefully larger and more powerful than before)
Cadillac CTS-V (yes, a Caddy, but at $50K its looking pretty good)
Audi A6 (new body style)
Infiniti M45 (new body style, even with auto)
Lexus GS (new body style, even with auto)
Lexus IS (new body style, hopefully larger and more powerful)

diver110 · April 2004

I have a 2000 540iT (regular tires and wheels). Anyone care to venture a guess of how much it would cost to upgrade to the sports package?

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