BMW 5-Series Sedans

muddog · April 2004

Thanks for the heads up. Will see how things go over the next 2-300 miles.

Muddog

shipo · April 2004

I agree on the addition of the E90 to the list. I have heard through the grapevine that the interior space will be nearly that of the E39 5-Series, and with optional V8 engines, it sounds like a serious contender to replace my 530i, assuming that I don't buy it at lease end.

Regarding CTS-V, I'm not sure I can get past the looks of the CTS as I find it as revolting as the E60. Regarding the rest of your list, it is my understanding that the A6 and the IS are both going Automatic only for the next generation, GRRRR. In my book, the only two Automatics that I would consider these days are the Mopar Hemi siblings (300C and Magnum) and the E320CDI MB.

At this point, I am seriously leaning toward keeping the 530i as it only has 21K miles on it.

Best Regards,
Shipo

pen101 · April 2004

Like you, I prefer stick. I did not realize that the A6 and the IS will only come as auto's. Do not like that. Unfortunately, the M45 and GS will also be auto only. Too bad. I also do not like the looks of the CTS-V. However, I do like its spec's, especially for its price point.

The E90 sounds like a good replacement for my E39. I am really hoping that it will be similar in interior size, features, and price to my E39, and yet with a more powerful engine and even better handling. To me, that is a step up.

On a different note, just received the latest edition of Roundel. On page 27, they provide a web site that shows pictures of "bizarre car crashes." They also have pictures of wrecked E60's and other BMWs. www.wreckedexotics.com.

riez · April 2004

Be willing to be that both the next IS and A6 will have at least one version with a manual transmission.

The June 2004 issue of EuropeanCar has a short article on the 2005 A6:

"Europe gets a choice of tive engines, ranging from a 140-bhp 2.0 TDI to a 255-bhp 3.2 V6 FSI to a 335-bhp 4.2 V8. Gearboxes include a six-speed manual, a six-speed Tiptronic and the continuously variable multronic."

Can't believe Audi won't have their magnificent Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) manual transmission in some version of the A6. Might be the high(er)(est) performing version(s), but bet it will have one.

Lexus wants to expand sales of the IS. They know presence of a manual is one big reason for 3 Series sales. Can't imagine they'd give up all the bad publicity if it is auto-only. Just read all the bad press the '01 IS300 had in its first year when Lexus screwed up big time and failed to initially offer a manual transmission.

Bigger fear is that 3 and 5 Series will see vast majority of sales in SMG over pure manual transmission.

As Automobile magazine points out in their May 2004 issue review of the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti:

"90 percent of orders to date specify the F1A [Ferrari's hydraulically actuated gearbox]."

You know the era of the true manual is dying when Ferrari's all come with SMG-like transmissions.

hman709 · April 2004

I am in the market for a car. I was very much considering '04 325xi with auto, premium and cold packages.

Then, i came across a '03 525i with premium and cold with 10K miles. They are about 1-1.5K apart in price. In the $35-36K range.

I liked the 525 interior size and trunk a lot however, it felt a bit slower than the 325 (for obvious reasons). But, my biggest concern is the RWD driving in the snow; i live in New York.
Of course, my finance on a new car will
probably have a much better rate than a preowned one even if going through BMW.

At least that is some of the comparison thoughts i had.

Any ideas or thoughts ? Much appreciated.

nyccarguy · April 2004

Get yourself a good set of snow tires and steel wheels for winter duty and the RWD 5er will do just fine. Where in NY do you live?

pen101 · April 2004

Autospies.com gives link to BMW sales spreadsheet. In sum, it shows year-to-date (Jan-Mar) sales compared to last year, of Z4 down, 3-series down, X5 down, 5-series (E60) up slightly and 7-series down. Overall, BMW 1st quarter sales were down, but March sales was near record high levels. See article for details.

hman709 · April 2004

I live in Long Island. I guess from what i gather from you is that i should be careful of buying a 5-series. It may be unusable in the winter.

Then, maybe the 3-series awd is better for now until they get around to making an awd 5-series in the next few years.

ny540i6 · April 2004

I own a 5, and as carguy says, with four snow tires on dedicated wheels, I had absolutely no problems this last winter, and I manage to cover turf from Boston to Maryland. I was out on LI the night the Southern State was closed due to ice, and I had no issues. All things considered, if the trunk space, rear seat room are important, then go with the 5.

cassidym · April 2004

The Heads Up Display option is now in production and I found one at my local dealer. The salesman couldn't figure out how to work it but let me have a go at it. Armed with an owners manual, I soon got it going. And, as with most things, it's a good news/bad news story. First the good news:
- The projected images are easy to read and do seem to float right above the hood.
- It's all in a single color (a sort of yellowish tan)and you can move the display around if you don't care for the chunk of windshield it's currently taking up.
- There is a night setting which the system apparently defaults to when it gets dark
- The images are relatively transparent so you can sort of see through them; all in all the HUD shouldn't prove much of a distraction while you are driving
- You can choose what data is displayed on the windshield

Now for the bad news:
- Your only choices are speed, navigation and adaptive cruise control
- For navigation, the system only displays the images and text that appear to the right of the navigation screen. These are diagrams of turns or arrows pointing you in the desired direction and street names plus miles to go. The color map does not project
- In order to choose or alter what you want projected you have to use the hated i-Drive system. You open the I menu and fumble around the the Display Settings section in what amounts to a totally unintuitive process till you get what you want.

Verdict: neat gadget but too few choices of data to be projected to justify the heady cost of this option.

nyccarguy · April 2004

go with the RWD 5er. Long Island gets pretty mild winters due to the fact that it is after all an island that is relatively flat. People on Long Island need an AWD or 4WD vehicle to get themselves to the train in the 2 or maybe 3 snowstroms they have a year (or to keep up with the jones' next door). In all honesty you'll do fine on LI with the RWD 5er. I live in Westchester (where people seem to have the same keep up mentality) where we have more hills and colder in-land temperatures, but AWD or 4WD still isn't necessary here. Tires are key. They're your only contact with the ground. AWD will help you get moving, but it will slow down your braking distance and add more weight when you're trying to swerve to avoid an accident. That extra 200+ pounds will make a difference.

vicmac · April 2004

I am shopping for a car now and planning on a Acura TL, I had visited the local BMW dealer for a certified 5 series. I happened to look at a 2004 525i. I liked the car very much and test drove it. Now the hard part is it will cost around 45k on road with just PP,Xenon, Auto. But I do not like the 184hp. Although I did not see any difference while driving. Pl convince me if I can spend that much on a 525i. I cannot afford 530 but want to buy a Bimmer.

Thanks guys

roadtwister · April 2004

I had a 01 530i in good to excellent condition. wanted to trade it in on a new 4.4 x5 suv. my dealer said he could give me only 21,000 on a trade in and nothing off of the 4.4 x5. I was in shock. started to look around and found the cayenne s. Porsche dealer gave me 25,800 for my car plus nearly 11% off of msrp on a brand new (not a demo) cayenne s. the car is fantastic, now everytime I drive by my old BMW dealer I holler out thank you's for sending me away.

sdg380 · April 2004

There are some 525 owners who will tell you how happy they are with their 525's, and while I've got an '02 530, I think there are very good reasons to consider the 525.

I believe that a great argument can always be made to buy the least expensive version of a particular car, principally because you're getting vitually the identical chassis, and the EXACT same look, in this case for $5000-$15000 less than other (530, 545) models. So you get the new styling, the new driving dynamics (apart from raw acceleration), low speed performance that is probably similar to a 530, and I think you'll end up losing less, in actual dollars, on depreciation. I'm certain most people (not on this board) don't know the difference between a 525 and a 545, but they do know that you're driving a brand new BMW, the "ultimate driving machine". I think you get a lot of the cache of this great car without going so deep financially.

There will be naysayers who respond, no doubt those who have liked having a V8 under the hood (riez?) But sometimes you just have to draw the line, as far as cost is concerned, and I think buying the 525 is great way to get into this car. I would definitely buy this car rather than an older, but more powerful, used 5-series V8.

You mention a TL, a very fine car to be sure, but I just don't think anybody has quite emulated the driving experience of a BMW, certainly not in a front-driver. You will experience torque-steer. You wouldn't go wrong with the Acura, but I guess in my mind, the BMW has always been the "real McCoy", not a wannabe.

By the way, a colleague bought a 525 just before I bought my 530, and he's never complained about lack of guts.

nyccarguy · April 2004

Suprising the dealer wasn't budging off MSRP on a 4.4 X5, my Dad just bought one in FEb for $1K over Invoice (it was a 3.0). Congrats on the Cayenne S though.

roadtwister · April 2004

I COULD DO VERY WELL ON THE 3.0 BUT THE 4.4 HE JUST LAUGHED WHEN I ASKED FOR THE SAME KIND OF REDUCTION. I GUESS THEY ARE HOT SELLERS.

riez · April 2004

sdg380... The 525i is a fine sedan amongst heavy competition. There certainly is nothing wrong with a low option 525i manual with Sport Pkg. Helps maximize its limited performance while keeping its price reasonable.

But when you compare price, performance, and value against cars like the G35 and others, I just don't think a heavily optioned 525i automatic is that much of a car or value.

sdg380 · April 2004

Automotive "value" can be pretty hard to put your finger on, and whether a G35 (another fine car, but not a BMW) offers more value than a 525 (the real McCoy, as I say) could be debated. Cars that cost half of this (an Accord, for example) could be reasonably argued to provide some of the best value for your money, but again, they're not built in Bavaria.

And I guess that's a decision we all face, many fine cars to choose from, but some cars certainly have more cache than others, and is that worth extra $$$, and how much? Obviously, those posting here are partial to BMW's, but is a 525 worth twice the price of Accord?

Vicmac, you test drove a 525 while considering a TL. As I said, you wouldn't go wrong with the Acura, but when I bought my first 5-er, I also was considering an Acura. For me, I was able to rationalize the extra $$$ (about 15% more) to have what I considered to be the benchmark, but if finances do not permit that, a very rational decision can be made to go with the TL (or a G35 as riez suggests.) But I can just about guarantee that if you go with the TL or G35, there will always just a little bit of "car envy" every time you see a 5, even if it's a "decontented" 525.

You could visit a TL or G35 board where the 5-series gets severely bashed for lack of "value". And if horsepower-per-dollar is a top factor, the TL or G35 may be better selections.

Of course, the marketplace is the great equalizer, and somehow BMW has managed to sell a bunch of cars that some would argue are less car for more money. Clearly, some people think they're worth it.

Let us know what you decide, but these are all fine cars, so there's not too much downside.

banglenot · April 2004

Over here in Jersey. I've got an E60 525 (replaced my '01 E39 525), and my wife has a 325xi.

Both fine cars, and I'll be the first to say that the xi is a lot better in the snow than either 525. You just get in and go, with stock tires, all winter.

That said, I've never put snows on either 5-series, and I don't have trouble. Some of it is that I grew up in snow, and am very comfortable with it. I drive by those who think that applying as much torque as possible is the way to drive in snow (as they try to climb out of a ditch by wearing the snow down to the bare earth...).

If you want no problems at all, get the xi. If you're good in snow, the 5 is OK with stock tires. If you're less comfortable, get snows.

riez · April 2004

sdg380... Think the issue isn't where BMW was in comparison to others but where it is today. Review after review of the E60 5 Series points out the ambivilence (sp?) of so many reviewers. The new 5 Series just doesn't stand out like the E39. It always has one or more issues with each reviewer: in areas like styling, price, electronic gadgety, iDrive, value, etc. That wasn't the case in 1997 or 2000.

Not to mention that the competition today is immensely better than it was in 1996 when the E39 came out (as a MY1997). Just think how few cars seriously competed with it in 1997.

But the picture has changed today. The E60 faces RWD cars like Cadillac CTS, Infiniti G35, Lincoln LS, Jaguar S-type, Lexus GS300/430, MB E-class, etc. and seriously improved FWD cars like TL. Not to mention AWD cars (e.g., A6).

In today's market, the 525i stands out for its high price (lowest base MSRP is now over $40,000) in light of its performance and utility.

I don't buy a car because of the marque. I buy a car because of the car. I've always felt sorry for those buyers who are more interested in being seen riding in the "right" car rather than looking out while driving a great car.

bmwmrc · April 2004

I agree with you regarding the E60 525i.

This is my second 525i (1995 and 2003). I bought the car because it IS a BMW. And it IS the benchmark in its class. There is a lot to be said about the chasis, the handling, the steering, and the acoutrements (sp?). It's not always about hp and torque. My 525 is plenty fast and I don't need to have the 530 or the 540 (E39) to "prove" to anyone, that I have the "ultimate driving machine." How fast is fast? Where can one drive 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and not get pulled over and get ticketed? Montana? Wyoming? Please. Come on. For someone that wants the ultimate benchmark sports sedan, the the 5 series is the way to go and it DOESN'T have to be a 540i riez. (Didn't you trade it in and get a Lexus?)

And, the G35? The TL? Please. Both fine cars, but they are NOT as refined as my Bimmer. I test drove both of them and they did not come up to the level of the Bimmer, even with the additional hp or torque.

Now, I will agree with riez about the styling of the new 2004 E60 5 series. I really dislike the look and the price. The front looks like a Pontiac and the back looks like a Hyundai. That is obviously my personal opinion, but if vicmac likes the vehicle and likes the looks, the fit and finish and the way the car handles, then he should buy the Bimmer. If he's looking to just go faster and/or he cannot justify the value then by all means he should go with the TL or as riez suggested the G35. Those are fine cars. But IMO, they are NOT the BMW.

riez · April 2004

bmwmrc... Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree? As I've said repeatedly before, I think the 525i (esp. an E39) is a very good car IF you have one with manual transmission and Sport Pkg AND keep the options down. BUT a 525ia non-Sport loaded with options is a rather expensive mundane automobile. I'm much less impressed with the E60, esp. due to changes related to the Sport Pkg, including tires.

Remember test driving an early MY2003 E39 525ia. MSRP was nearly $43,000. Almost had to push the car to get it to accelerate decently. [Even my wife complained and she had a '00 323ia at the time. We both thought someone would be paying way too much for way too little.]

A 525ia non-Sport, no matter how you slice it, is not the ultimate driving machine. Not even close.

designman · April 2004

How 'bout pressing the spell check button. Riez, a guy who reads as much as you and is punctilious, fastidious. Shame on you.

Just kiddin'

;-)

vicmac · April 2004

sdg380, others,
Thanks for the help in making a decision. I have been thinking and talked to my wife about it. I think I will try to get a 530i if I can get that aroung 50K with just PP,Auto,Xenon.Assuming that I order and it takes 8 weeks so I dont have to pay for the car and save that and to be satisfied with the purchase. I will keep you updated if I can make a deal on the price, Anything above we decided not to go for because there is no end for the temptation.
Thanks for all your valuable suggestions
Vic

riez · April 2004

designman... Think I used that feature once and it messed things up. I didn't want to go downstairs to pull out my well worn copy of Webster's Unabridged 3rd International. Darn thing weighs 20 pounds.

glady · April 2004

Another option is a low mileage 2003 CPO. I just bought a 2003, manual transmission w/ SP, PP, CWP and xenon. The car has 5300 miles, has the new car smell and feel. Having 95,000 miles left on the warranty plus 5.5 years is very appealing to me. I paid $42k which I thought was fair (not great) since a similar new E60 would be 10k more and less of a warranty. Just a thought.

infinitimn · April 2004

The capitalized cost on my '04 530i with Step, PP, Xenon, CWP and Nav was $49,990. You should be able to get what you want for well under $50k.

billbrox · April 2004

I always appreciate the follow ups on this post so I will regale you all with my tire purchase simply as an FYI.

I could not stand the noise my orig. Conti Contact Sports were making (after 22K miles) so I investigated other brands, speed ratings, all season, summer etc. I chose the Bridgestone RE950 Potenza 235/45-17 H rated tire and am delighted with them. They are all season tires (not tested on the snow yet), but are smooth, quiet, tight and handle like a champ. I'll see how they do after 22K miles, but my sense is they will do just fine.

I researched this purchase for at least 6 days and am happy I did. There are certainly other brands and styles to consider, but if you look at TheTire Rack and read the reviews and ratings you will be hard pressed to find a better value. Only my opinion fwiw......

-billbrox

bmwmrc · April 2004

I'm glad to learn that about the Bridgestone's. I was looking at those the other day as a possible alternative when my Michelin's wear-out. I like the Michelin's, but I think they're a little over priced and they're a little noisy. The Bridgstone's appear to be 25% less money.

Thanks for the post.

riez · April 2004

billbrox... BMW's have a pretty aggressive suspension set up. Talking about the entire system, including things like camber/castor settings, etc. Work to wear the tires out earlier than most people expect. Tend to wear the insides of the tires harder (esp. rears). That is what tends to lead to tire noise, regardless of brand or model. Of course, some tires wear quicker than others.

riez · April 2004

bmwmrc... I am unaware of a published test in an automotive publication of an E39 or E60 525ia. That alone should tell you something--the automotive press has no interest in it as it doesn't provide much excitement. If you are aware of one, please let me know the publication and date of publication.

Using BMW's published 0-60 mph figures for the MY 2003 E39:

530i: 6.8
530ia: 7.0
525i: 7.8
525ia: 8.3

330i: 6.4
330ia: 7.0
325i: 7.1
325ia: 8.1

Not sure what your standards are, but 8.3 seconds is an eternity.

Not sure why you keep bringing up the 540i/545i. The better comparison reference points against a 525ia are cars like the G35.

joe91 · April 2004

After months of research and having driven all 2004 5 series versions, I`m ready to buy a 530i, premium package, xenons, steptronic, with black interior. But, I can`t decide between the titanium silver(TS) and the silver gray(SG). I`ve only seen SG in a 3 and Z4. SG looks great in the Z4 but a bit too "gray" in the 3. Can anyone help me?

4thlexus · April 2004

My wife and I own the slowest and the fastest (without mods of course) E39. I drive a 2003 M5 and she drives a 2002 525it. I think they are both great cars. We use the station wagon for our son and Golden Retriver and carrying lots of stuff. We feel safe inside and it feels rock solid when driving it on a freeway @70miles/hr (more so than my previous Lexus sc430). Since it's an automatic, it is also great to drive it in a stop and go traffic or in San Francisco with lots of steep hills. I do not drive too fast with my family (esp with my wife..) so the speed/acceleration is not an issue.

On the other hand, the M5 is a blast to drive. I am usually alone (commuting). I can see why BMW is referred to as the ultimate driving machine. I do not street race and I bought this car for my enjoyment (and when I occasionally have to carry passengers). I still think this is one of the best looking sedans available (IMHO) and I bought it last year when I saw the new E60.

I also think that the TL and G35 are wonderful cars. Depending on your needs, there are lots of great cars out there. I just don't think there is one "perfect" car for everyone.

designman · April 2004

I have Bridgestone Potenzas on my Outback comes with the car. Great on dry and wet roads and they are quiet. As you would expect for an all-season tire theyre average in snow and have really lost their bite in snow after 40k miles. AWD makes up for this with traction but not cornering and braking in snow. Have 54k on them and it looks like they have at least another 10k left. Will be replacing them in November, probably with the same. If I had only one RWD sedan I definitely wouldnt want an all season tire though. Id be changing to the snows for the rough winter months.

designman · April 2004

Among other topics, the 525 vs 530 never ends. Its matter of expectation and driving habits. Many people simply dont have the need for power. And if you never get on the throttle you will never notice the difference between the two. Whats more, these people would never know the difference between the 525 and M5. No sense spending money on power if you are not going to use it. 525 is one of the ultimate driving machines. With SP it outhandles all other 5-series cars. As long as you know your needs youll be fine.

The ones who are suffering are those who thirst for power and cant get their butts into an M5. I understand money is the obvious stumbling block but maybe they could get one for 6 months to a year, sell it, get it out of their systems, and stop moaning about how the 525 sucks. After such an experience they may even come back and say gee, you got a 525? Great choice! I hope you enjoy it!

I can just hear it now designman blabity blah blah e-r-r-0-60 a-h-h-h torque g-r-r-r-r cant afford.u-h-h-h-h alternatives d-u-u-u-h-h reviews

;-)

designman · April 2004

What a coincidence. Just noticed the post by 4thlexus. Proves my point. See what a positive effect an M5 can have on a man!

sdg380 · April 2004

Yeah, I am a helpful guy, just ask vicmac and riez, ha!

Obviously, beauty is in the eye, and it will be your ride, so trust your gut. But anyway, my '02 530 is Titanium Silver, which looks really nice, very light-colored, almost white-ish. I believe clearly the best color for not showing dirt.

But I debated with the Sterling Gray Metallic available at that time, and maybe would go with that today, particularly with an E60, which seems to look good in darker shades. I go for the understated look.

Even though I'm in the Midwest, and not the Sun Belt, I'm not too fond of dark colors when it's hot out. But apart from that, I think your new E60 would be very sharp in Silver Gray.

BTW, I think statistically, silver is the most popular car color, but I don't know if that includes "light" silver (TS) and "dark" silver (SG).

bromster · April 2004

i just got my 525i after looing at lexus es330 and jag s type
dont worry bout the 184 hp this car rocks!
i love the new design and predict this will be a classic
if outperforms a whole lot of cars with bigger hp and it is quick as a cat
it drives like its glued to the road
i love this car...........

ps msrp was 45500 ( i got it with chromes and premium and cold weather) and paid 43.5k not the greatest deal but a whole lot better than most dealers were offering

riez · April 2004

bmwmrc... Think my first post on this subject was stating the obvious: that the 525i with manual transmission and Sport Pkg is a very nice sedan, indeed. I've always maintained that.

The 525ia non-Sport, on the other hand, is a rather expensive mundane sedan.

I don't obsess about any one performance criteria. I look at the total package--braking, handling, acceleration, steering, ride quality, etc. [I could only provide 0-60 time, and only from BMW, for 525ia because the automotive press appears too bored or disinterested in it to actually test one. Heck, even Consumer Reports did their full test on a 530ia.]

Why is the Sport Pkg so important? It improves braking and handling. Both are very important to me. Aren't they important to you? And it doesn't degrade ride quality or steering.

Why is the manual transmission so important? It provides better control, fuel economy, lowers price, and improves acceleration performance (0-60, 1/4 mile, passing times, etc.).

I can't fathom a good reason for wanting a 525ia non-Sport over the a much less expensive, roomier, and higher performing car like the G35. But then, driving pleasure is more important to me than being seen in the "right" car.

designman · April 2004

The Porsche sedan. Can't read German but if this is on the Porsche drawing board we all have plenty to look forward to. Both versions look darn near perfect IMO. I like the sketch in button #6 because it appears to have a broken roofline. I'm only guessing but the other version looks as if it could be Photoshopped using parts of both the 996 and upcoming 997 911s.

http://ww.autobild.de/projektor/projektor.php?artikel_id=6053&amp- ;amp- ;amp- ;amp- ;pos=1

designman · April 2004

"Instead I took some of my money and bought other things, like a wonderful gift for my wife and made a few small investments."

Excellent choice on all counts. Enjoy.

bmwmrc · April 2004

to remind you, MY car HAS the SP! That's why I justified getting that over the 530i non-sport. I chose to get the manu-matic instead of the manual, because in Southern California, your knees will suffer. Trust me.

joe91 · April 2004

sdg380 and others ... thanks for your help. Today, 4/15, I ordered a 530ia, PP, xenons, steptronic, cold WP, in Titanium Silver with black leather, etc. I have test driven all of the steptronic versions (several times each ... 525ia, 530ia, 545ia) and feel that the 530ia, premium pkg., is the best of the lot taking performance, price, wheels, and features into consideration. Of course, note that I do not like the "active steering" which comes with the sports pkg. I really love the torque and HP "step-up" on the 530 over the 525, PLUS I can`t stand the wheels which come on the standard 525. Anyway, whatever makes one happy is the "ticket". I`m happy ... as are most all other bimmer owners I know!! Can any BMW be wrong? Not in my book!!!

joe91 · April 2004

ADDUNDUM to previous message: I`m selling my 1990 525ia which has 175000 miles and is still going strong! I also have a 2003 325cic (red convertible, PP & sport) which my wife primarily drives ... except when it needs servicing!! We are truly a bimmer family. Is there any other way to go? NOT!!

bmwlover3 · April 2004

I bought my 525i last year when the incentives were great. It was just a few thousand more than a Camry or Passat. I am use to using Mobil 1 5w30 in all my cars every 3000 miles. I was surprised to see the long service interval with BMW s. Are these cars so special that they don't need oil changes often. My dealer charges $46.00 to do an oil change service with 7qt of "BMW 5w40"Synthetic and a filter kit. It seem reasonable to continue my 3000 mile model I use with my other cars. I was wondering about the other service intervals such as brake fluid ( I think it should be once a year), coolant ( I think it should be once a year) and transmission fluid (every two years). Is Mobil 1 0w40 for European cars better than BMW oil? Thank you for your help.

Best Regards

atomicpunk · April 2004

Looks the slightly (?) hysterical, doom & gloom predictions of the E60 haters hasn't panned out.

As always,
I am ...
the ATOMICPunk!

bmwmrc · April 2004

I too own a 2003 525ia. This is my second 5. If I'm not mistaken, you're not suppose to do anything with the car until the very first interval, which is 15K miles. Check your manual.

I don't think it will hurt to change the oil, but I think you're just wasting your money. If I'm wrong on this, please let me know.

riez · April 2004

As has been repeatedly pointed out over the years in the Technical Q&A sections of Roundel (BMW CCA) and Bimmer magazines, the minute BMW started paying for the "free" maintenance the intervals were lengthened. But prior to that, oil/filter changes intervals hadn't been 15K. Believe Bimmer Tech Editor recommends 7.5K interval.

You must be religious about brake fluid and coolant changes. Follow the intervals.

And do NOT believe what BMW says about changing transmission and differential fluid. Esp. for automatics. They all need to be periodically changed. No more than 30K.

When you look at BMW's recommendations for oil and transmission, it is a bit scary to see how little maintenanance is done in the first 60K. We won't know about long-term reliability issues for some time, but more maintenance is always better than less.

kdshapiro · April 2004

"We won't know about long-term reliability issues for some time, but more maintenance is always better than less."

Correct. But I follow the manufacturers maintenance instructions to a T. No more, and mostly less.

riez · April 2004

I tend to concur with Mike Miller's advice.

This is from the June 2004 issue of Bimmer, Tech Q&A:

"But even BMW, with its outlandish service intervals, recommends an oil change at least once a year regardless of miles. If you are using BMW's oil, I recommend changing your oil and filter every 5,000-7,500 miles or once a year, whichever comes first."

And as he indicated in the April 2004 Bimmer:

"The service interval indicator system on this car simply records fuel used and indicates the 'need' for an oil change or 'inspection I or II'."

And most importantly, here is what he said in the April 2004 issue of Roundel (BMW CCA):

"Unfortunately, since the advent of free scheduled maintenance and extended service intervals, 'dealer maintained' means that very little was done to the car beyond a list of checks and adjustments. If you're lucky, this car [a used '97 528i with 66,000 miles] had four engine-oil changes, one air filter, one coolant change, and three brake fluid changes--but it's more than likely that it just had the engine-oil changes and the air filter. ... Change your gearbox and differential oil now and every 30,000 miles hereafter, the brake fluid annually, and the coolant every two years."

I say follow the money. BMW saves money by skimping on maintenance it has to pay for. No wonder the intervals are extended? When things go wrong after 50,000 miles, the warranty is expired and BMW's dealers will gladly fix what is wrong for a small fortune!

BMW 5-Series Sedans

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