BMW 5-Series Sedans

rich545 · December 2004

Really? I think you need to go back and re-read some of kccts' posts.

andys120 · December 2004

but I'm glad I glommed onto a good low miles E39 when I had the chance. I like owning a four y/o car that's better looking than the new ones.

I predict the next Fiver will look more like an E39 than an E60.

equan1 · December 2004

I own an E34 525i, E39 540i and E46 330i Cic. To me, they're all great in design and I'm very happy with them, and get a lot of pleasure driving them. I agree with above comments that one has to look forward and I think the E60 has a modern look, and it definitely has a real presence on the road. While I'm not in the market for another car, I'm sure I will be happy with the 545i and E90 in the near future. I like the E60 interiors - simple, subtle, an understated elegance, unlike flashy and "junky" dash displays in the competition. Less is more. With few exception, older models will look outdated. It's just that some people enjoy the era they're in, likely their formative and early productive years, and are fixated and reluctant to change. I'm in dangerous grounds now but look at the number of people who continue to live in a certain decade - dress, hair styles, home decor, music, art, tastes, etc. I'm not saying one has to be changing all the time but the world moves forward in time. My 2 cents.

530ir1150r · December 2004

I did not mean they will fail as a company. As BMW chases volume their cars will become more mainstream, good, bad or indifferent. I also realize that a company either grows or dies. As BMW grows they will reach a point where they have to buy out other companies (and become something else) or get bought out (and become something else). The Rule of Three will eventually prevail.

The E60 faces resistance because not only is it further along the mainstream path, the emphasis on design over performance is greater.

I do believe the E60 will out sell the E39, hence, more mainstream. The design appeals to post baby boomers.

It is not that I dislike the E60, I appreciate the E39 more.

ksccts · December 2004

Well said. I love seeing people get fired up over all this. Shows how lucky we are to live here where we have the free time and energy to argue about which $50k+ car is more attractive.

kyfdx · December 2004

You might be the first person to describe the E60 as mainstream..

rich545 · December 2004

I agree about the E60 probably being more attractive to post-baby boomers, but I have to ask why you think the emphasis is more on design than performance? The E60 is faster (545 vs. 540), more agile and brakes faster than the E39 so I don't see where you're coming from. Do you mean just in terms of the E39 being more of a bare-bones performance car?

530ir1150r · December 2004

I said more mainstream. As volume increases mainstream will also converge on BMW.

BMWs in the past were marketed and perceived as "form follows Function". I do not see that as a definitive principle with the E60. I agree the performance bar is raised, but there also is a push towards contemporary styling, maybe even trendiness, that I do not see in preE65 models.

blckislandguy · December 2004

I hope you aren't implying that a granola eating guy who recalls Tet '68 like it was yesterday, can't appreciate an E60? (By the way, while you're up, pass me the Boone Farms, please.)

designman · December 2004

Are you sure all you want is the Boone's Farm? ;-)

kyfdx · December 2004

Boone's Farm... definitely makes you over 40.. If you were younger...it might have been TJ Swann

lovemyclk · December 2004

You haven't lived until you've enjoyed a bottle of Richard's Triple Peach Wine!

pen101 · December 2004

Regarding the E60 design comments, think back to the cars that you owned over the years. For each car, did you think the manufacturer improved on your car in the subsequent body design change? For me, I would say 7 out of 9 cars, I felt I liked my current car design better. I guess I get attached to a specific design and any changes to it are hard to embrace. This same bias is with the E60. I love my E39. I have not warmed to the E60 design. At least I am consistent. Are others this way too?

bmwdoug · December 2004

The new design of the 5 series is awesome. I take a double look every time I see one. I love the car. Styles change and times change. BMW did the right thing. This is one hot car! But, sales have been down when compared to the old style, so maybe I am in the minority opinion.

kdshapiro · December 2004

Maybe we're both in the minority opinion. But I don't think it's the looks that are effecting the sales as much as the price, everyone I talk to has positive comments on the new design and almost everyone agrees it's a good starting point for the next few years. But a 530 for $50K, whew. If I were spending $50K I would see if I could manage a 545 or go American - CTS etc.

cassidym · December 2004

You can swing a 545 for $50K r damn near. I paid $54K for mine and could have gone lower had I foregone HUD and NAV plus some of the other gee-gaws and whim-whams that I couldn't resist.

I did this by first getting European Delivery (ED), which knocked off $5K, then having the Edmunds invoice price at hand when I negotiated.

True, I got the salesman to shave off another grand by giving him my car (86 325) for a buck.

With ED, you have to fly to Munich to get the car but, if you time it right, you can get low fares and inexpensive accommodations. We went during Octoberfest but still got half fare on Lufthansa. Plus Munich is a blast even in the dead of winter. You can drive your new 5er all over Europe and ship it from most any country or ship it directly from Munich the day you get it.

bmwdoug · December 2004

Excellent point!! As much as I like the car, it is the price that has kept me from taking the plunge. I don't believe you can even obtain a completely loaded 530 for $50,000, I believe it is more like $55,000. I am seriously considering a 300c or CTS.

fla528 · December 2004

I have a early release 2004 525i, I can add nav to the car for only $1,800( this is for early release cars only). Does anyone here have navigation in the 2004 model, and how easy is it to use with the I-drive. I appreciate any comments.

gold233790 · December 2004

I hated the look when it was first released. Couldn't understand.....

I have since realized that I hated the new look not because of how it actually looked, but that it was a radical change in appearance from a car that I LOVED looking at.

I have come to really like the new 5. In fact, instead of learning to deal with the looks like I originally thought I'd have to do I find myself looking at the E39 and thinking it looks old and out of date to an extent. Still beautiful, but it looks to me like an older model.

Anyway.....two dealers in NJ told me the X version will be out in late spring. Both dealers were selling me the current 530i.

equan1 · December 2004

Not trying to be out of topic but the following is from the TL forum today. I don't agree with the last sentence either. I wonder if he has ever owned/driven a bmw 5 series.

"I took delivery yesterday of a new 2005 TL - Green Pearl - Parchment Interior - No NAV. The engine in this car is awesome and the interior has a rich look. I traded my 2003 Cadillac CTS in on the TL. My CTS had over 50,000 miles on it and I had many reliability problems, I just lacked confidence in the CTS. I am amazed at how much more refined the TL is compared to the CTS. The TL's engine is so much smoother and more powerful than the CTS. I only have about 50 miles on my TL so my impressions are limited, but I am impressed thus far. I believe if the TL was rear wheel drive it would be recognized as the best sports sedan in it's class."

hpowders · December 2004

Yes. I feel the same way. A friend has a 2004 530i in silver and I couldn't stop staring. However, reliability issues prevent me from seriously considering this car at this time.

cassidym · December 2004

NAV, like everything else with iDrive is awkward and counter intuitive. For example, when you get to the screen where you enter the street or city name, the alphabet appears. You then have to turn the iDrive Controller until the cursor lights up the first letter you want. Once you find it, you press the controller down to select it. Then, it's off to the next letter. It's a slow cumbersome process.

And, switching off the guidance voice is not as simple as it should be. Also, the system gets itself confused occasionally and will ask you to make u-turns when your destination is right in front of you.

Now, having said all that, I still love the system. I've got NAV in a 2005 but don't believe there's much difference. You get an easy to read map that you can quickly change the scale on.

And, although the system does sometimes get confused, most of the time it gets you to where you're going a lot easier than driving with a map in one hand. In fact, you'll find yourself getting very dependant on the thing.

I've lived in the DC metro area since 1970 and still sometimes have to drive somewhere unfamiliar and NAV is a big help. For example, we went to a restaurant in a town 80 miles north of here a few weeks ago. Without NAV, it would have been difficult finding the way. But with NAV, we drove right to the front door like we'd been there a dozen times. And, here's a feature I like: as soon as you enter the destination and the system calculates the route, an estimated time of arrival (ETA) appears at the bottom of the screen. That time changes based on your speeds and the nature of the route in front of you (freeway vs city roads). Very helpful when you're tight on time.

BTW, $1800 is not an especially good price. That's the standard option price for NAV.

ajrose · December 2004

Verizon finally cane out with a Blue tooth phone (Motorola V710). Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get it to connect to my 05 BMW.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

gold233790 · December 2004

Yes, Verizon came out with the V710. But they were thick headed and short-sighted. It came with settings designed to push owners of the phone towards proprietary bluetooth software, or in some cases where Verizon had marketing relationships with the provider. For 90% of the users out there, it was a disaster.

I believe they've sent it back to "back out" the crazy blocks, and that it should be compatible fairly soon- if not already.

sb55 · December 2004

I just got an email from a dealer advising me that the 5 series will have the new larger engine and AWD avail. in April of '05. I assume they will be '06 model year changes.

ksccts · December 2004

Not 5-series but BMW related.

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=2968&cat- egoryId=1

ksccts · December 2004

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3733&cat- egoryId=1

scoutlab1 · December 2004

I have been told by my dealer that the new engine and AWD option go into production in March for April delivery.

nyccarguy · December 2004

My Mom took delivery of her Black/Black 530iA earlier this evening. The car looks really sharp in black. It seems to hide some of the car's contreversial styling cues (bangle butt). I took it for a quick spin and from what I saw & drove I was impressed. The car is traditional bank vault soild. The interior materials are rich. I love the heavy weight of the steering. Handling was damn impressive for a non-SP equipped BMW that weighs almost 3500lbs. I love BMW's buttery smooth Inline 6. Garage door opener was simple to program. I'm not a fan of the i-drive concept by any means, but it seems to be pretty straight forward. She's only going to use it to scroll through her radio presets anyway. Hopefully my parents will enjoy the 530iA as much as my Dad likes his Sp equipped X5 3.0iA.

andys120 · December 2004

Autoweek for 12/27 confirms it, saying BMW will offer a 525xi, 530xi and 530xi "sport wagon"

(Don't know ix the reversed letters are a typo on AW's part). In another departure from it's traditional nomenclature the 525 motor will be a 3 liter rated @ 185 hp while the top version in the 530 will have 255hp/200 lb feet.

The new xi(?) models will be seen at the NAIS in January and offered for sale "next spring"

car_rm · December 2004

I am in the process of having my 325i bought back through CA's Lemon Law, mostly electrical issues. I love the BMW drive and have realized that my family needs the larger back seat. Has anyone had issues that would have made them reconsider having purchased the car. I am still debating between the 525 and 530. Thanks for any input.

ny540i6 · December 2004

Flew out to Cali (LA area) on a Thursday morning, got there about noonish. Did lunch, then off to Rusnak BMW to pick up an'05 530 (Blk Saph, 6 spd man, Bge int, Xenons, Prem Pkg). Left Friday, drove up to San Fran (inland, 405, 5, 880) weekend, then back south on the PCH (US 1)on Sunday.

My impressions of the E60 are mostly from inside - I love my E39's look, but will admit that the E60 545 in certain colors, from certain angles, is growing on me. I'll also try to add the comments of the 530's owner, who moved to this from an eclectic collection that has included a VW squareback (and she is vehement about it), an early Miata that she drove to Texas, and the Avalon (her first auto tranny)that directly preceded her first Bimmer.

Please understand that I am only sharing my impressions - I did not skidpad the thing, put a stopwatch to it, or anything like that. Also, I recognize that I am not comparing an E39 530 to an E60 530; I can only compare the cars that I have, and I have done 49K miles in my '03 540, all up and down the east coast.

Ride: Compared to my 540I, the suspension on the E60 530 is way more forgiving, much more compliant. There were a couple of sections on the PCH where I wished for the Sport package, however for 95% of the driving this car will do the standard (I hate to say "base") setup is much more than adequate. In a few months I'd look at swapping to some higher performing rubber if I drove it more. The owner enjoyed both seats, and we both agreed that for her use the seats were better than the sport seats in my 540 - not necessarily more comfortable, but easier to get in and out of.

Interior features: The standard stereo rocks - pretty simple. It compares well to the DSP setup in my car. I like both. I'd like to thank the person on this forum who had suggested not springing for the stereo upgrade. It lacks little DSP tricks like adding echo and audio profiles, however for clean sound, good volume, well rounded performance, it can't be beat.

I Drive: I gotta admit that there were two main reasons why I bought my E39, and one of them was that I did not want I Drive. After spending a few days with it I have mixed feelings - I like being able to customize things without a trip to the dealer - little things like setting the door lock pattern, or turning the alarm to silent. I don't like things like how difficult it is to change some of the climate settings.

Cupholders: BMW found a way to compromise. They are there, but don't intrude in the driver's space. All I can say is that Queen Starbucks liked them. I'm used to doing all my drinking in the parking lot, then driving like heck to catch up with the group! lolol.

The Drive: The six really wants to rev. You feel it when you clutch for a shift, and while you are lifting your right foot the engine is spooling up a few hundred more RPM on the tach. It definitely feels lighter than the eight. The engine/tranny/suspension in the 530 made it easy to drive fast, but in a different way than the combo in the 540. Because there is less torque, and (I guess) the ratios are different, the 530 requires more shifting, and is not "point and shoot" fast like the 540. I'm not saying that it is a slug, just that you need to be involved. I think that for most people the 530 would not be intimidating. Sometimes the 540 can let you know that the limits are so high that crossing the line would probably be mighty ugly.

One difference was the steering and steering wheel - The 540 has a thicker, fatter wheel, which I prefer, and also seems to have a slower steering at high speeds, such as in high speed sweeper type corners. For me it feels more composed... so that in the 530 I felt the car reacting more precisely to the inputs that I inadvertently gave - ironically, more precise, resulting in more mid-corner corrections.

And one tiny thing - when I got back to my car, I found myself missing that neat little turn signal trick on the new ones - signalling lane changes the way they do.

And of course the gas mileage is way better than in my 540.

Finally, those "see around corners" headlights are excellent, and don't seem to blind people coming the other way.

All in all I think the E60 530 is a pretty neat car; I am not ready to give up an E39 for one, but that is based more on my subjective assessment of which I feel looks better, rather than on anything that looks at which is the "better car". I just spoke to Ms. Left Coast and asked what's her favorite thing about the car, and she says simply, that everything is where she would want it to be - that she has never found herself saying "why'd they put that there?"

Just my 4.4 cents.

kdshapiro · December 2004

Interesting set of observations and well written.

Maybe you added 3.0 cents

bmwdoug · December 2004

How can you tell if a 2001 525 has a sports package?

argelius · December 2004

In case this hasn't already been posted. some "official" documentation of the coming 5-series with AWD

http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/NewsID/2041221.002/bmw/1.ht- ml

argelius · December 2004

I am in the process of fantasizing about trading my 2004 Acura TL in for either an Audi A6 or a 530. (If I go for the BMW, I'll probably wait -- if I can stand it -- for the 'xi' version supposedly arriving this spring).

I am big fan of Navigation and consider it a 'must-have'. I just wish BWM would catch up and get a decent one. (The Acura's is awesome, and what I've seen of the Audi, it's a huge improvement over BMWs, though not up to the Japanese standards.)

woodranch1 · December 2004

ny540i6,

I also have an 03 E39 540i6. Would love to chat offline. Please contact at jfinn1965@yahoo.com. Thanks.

cmr530i · December 2004

Purchased new, my 2001 530i came with the multi-function M sport steering wheel, the M sport shift knob, 17" alloy wheels, 235/45R-17 performance tires, shadowline trim, and sport suspension.

shipo · December 2004

Yikes! I cannot believe I'm writing this! I like the [non-permissible content removed] end look of the new E60 Touring enough to actually put the E60 back on my list. If I decide I want a wagon next time around it might could well be a three pedal 530i Touring instead of a new 330i. ;-)

Thanks for the link!

Best Regards,

Shipo

merckx · December 2004

I agree-i'm very excited about the new wagon. With the panoramic sunroof,I think it would make an outstanding tourer for a family. I think it's going to be my next car...

argelius · December 2004

I've done some forum searches, but it's hard to cull a consensus.

I am considering trading in my 2004 Acura TL for a 530. I live in Chicago, and while we don't have nearly as much snow as people think, I had some really bad experiences with a MB CLK 320 several years ago.

So, are all contemprary RWD cars created equal when it comes to handling in the snow?

I realize snow tires are a "solution"...it just seems like a pain...

Thanks for those who can shed some real-world light on this...

ny540i6 · December 2004

I'm probably not the right one to ask, however I am a firm believer in 3 season tires and a set of snows. I have done this for years, whether the car is front or rear wheel drive. IMHO all season tires are enough of a compromise all of the time to make the seasonal change-over no big deal. And all it takes is one sphincter tightening skid or spin to make a believer. The Acura on crap rubber will not be significantly better than any rear driver; if the Acura is on high performance summer tires, it will actually be worse, since those babies usually don't like cold.

shipo · December 2004

I lived with an All-Season shod 1999 328i for the better part of four winters in northern New Jersey, which by the way has A LOT more hills (I lived not too far from the Appalachian Trail) than the greater Chicago area (Sheridan Road and the Starved Rock area not withstanding), and while the car was not as confidence inspiring as my winter tire shod 530i, it was serviceable through all but the deepest snow. The question is, "Do you NEED winter tires?" No. However, if you ask, "Might winter tires make the difference between an easy maneuver around a situation or having an accident?" The answer is, Very possibly.

I used to believe that All-Season rubber was "Good Enough", the operative words here is "used to". Then I moved to New Hampshire and bought a set of winter tires, and I instantly became a "believer". That first winter here we had 114 inches of snow and my 530i didnt fail to get me to work for a single day. Errr, well, I should say, "...my 530i didn't fail to get my wife and I...", as she took over the 530i after I broke my right leg half way through the winter snow season, relegating me to driving our Caravan, left footed no less. :-/ That was probably the first and only time I regretted not buying an automatic transmission. ;-)

Best Regards,

Shipo

sdg380 · December 2004

Argelius--I have driven both my current '02 530 and previous E39 here in Chicago area without benefit of snow tires, and have found that even on some of the crummiest days, it's just not really a problem.

Now having said that, I think front-drivers are no doubt better under the worst conditions, but as you say, we really don't get THAT much snow here, and since it's cleared reasonably efficiently, how many days are you out there when it's really tough sledding--maybe half a dozen or so?

In any event, I've been out on some of the worst of them, and as long as you don't expect miracles, I think you'll be just fine. Personally, I've never been interested in going through twice-annual tire/wheel changes (which practically guarantees you'll have the wrong tires on at one time or another, given our highly variable weather--it's going to be 50+ tomorrow), and have found the OEM performance/all-season tires to be perfectly adequate for year-round use.

Sure, snow tires are better in the snow (and high-performance tires are better when it's dry), but modern all season radials are really pretty versatile, and a well-balanced chassis like a 5-series equipped with them seems to cope just fine with our flat-lander winters.

Might I add that I've never thought that it makes much sense to buy a car/truck for the 6 or 8 days when it's really lousy, and then schlepping around the weight of 4-wheel drive for the other 350+ days. But, I'm obviously in the minority, given the ubiquitous nature of SUV's around here.

argelius · December 2004

Thanks, SDG...everything you said makes a lot of sense and I concur with. (I have a hard enough time getting around to getting a oil change, let alone switching tires twice a year...)

I guess I just had one REALLY bad experience with a MB 320CLK about six years ago during the really bad snow storm of 2000 which scared me away from RWD. But after driving my FWD Acura TL, I absolutely cant stand the torque steer. (I originally thought that was just something car geeks talked about...but it's REAL!)

shipo · December 2004

"But after driving my FWD Acura TL, I absolutely cant stand the torque steer. (I originally thought that was just something car geeks talked about...but it's REAL!)"

Not to beat the point too much to death, however, I had always thought that the difference between All-Season and Winter tires was "just something car geeks talked about...but it's REAL!"

Okay, I'll crawl back into my hole and stop spouting off about winter tires now. ;-)

Best Regards,

Shipo

ny540i6 · December 2004

I guess the only thing I would ask is what are the tires on the car now. My point is that something like my 540 came with dedicated 3 season rubber; even when 10K miles were on them I could not make it up my driveway in on unexpected early snowfall (Because the front end of the car is low, and the driveway/curb cut is steep, you don't approach my drive at anything more than a crawl unless you enjoy the sound of your bank account draining). In cases like that you have to change the tires anyway. That's why I had asked what was on the Acura now. In addition, I would also look at how much driving, and where - I think nothing of going anywhere from Mass. to Md., or much of Pa, all year round.

sdg380 · December 2004

...about that torque-steer, I'm sure many don't notice, not sure how geeky I am, but I DID notice. Was seriously considering an Acura, a fine car to be sure, when I bought my E39, but the "real McCoy" was not that much more expensive. No regrets.

Re your problems with your CLK, any idea what kind of tires it had? Anything too sporty will be just about useless in the snow.

Let us know how you make out.

designman · December 2004

You can also get High-Performance Winter Tires. I'd like to hear about differences between these and the all-seasons. I'm riding around on all-seasons with 65K miles on them and they look like they can go to 80Kamazing. Have decided to let them go through the winter although braking and handling is not good in snow at this point. I suppose if I went for a dedicated set of winters this would guarantee no snow in the Northeast for the next three years. Am rolling the dice, we're due for an easy winter. Weather report says 60 degrees on New Year in NY.

BTW, the tires I speak about are on the Outback not the 530, but FYI a colleague of mine has 60K on the his 530's all-seasons and has had no complaints with winter driving. He does an 80-mile daily commute.

argelius · December 2004

Well, today I test drove an Audi 3.2 A6 and a BMW 530 back to back. For me, the BMW won hands down. I didn't necessarily push the cars from a power/acceleration perspective, but the steering and handling of the BMW just just awsome and felt so much more "tight" (not sure what the correct adjective is...) than the Audi. I know this isn't the most original statement, but to me the Audi felt like a sporty luxury car and the BMW like a luxurious sporty car.

So, BMW 5-series it is. My next issue is whether or not to wait for the xi version (which I was told will begin production in May). I was also told that beginning with March builds, the 530 will have 30 more horsepower, which seems like it would be worth waiting for.

Unfortunately, I am very bad with the delayed gratification thing...

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