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Comments
I don't know if you can volunteer to fill out a questionnaire, but if you want to try, call the magazine or write to the address on my envelope: "Popular Mechanics Owner Survey, Post Office Box 283, Spring Valley NY 10977-9923." I'll be watching for the results, hopefully in the Sept or Oct issues.
Let me add my thanks to drcomputer for instructions on how to eliminate the steering wheel retraction groan (#1601). It worked.
Thanks.
Now if you only took your LS, the nav system could probably tell you all of this! Have a good (if hot) trip!
Flint350 - WW1 chef ... huh. That aviation seems to keep you on top of everything. Did you really get a speeding ticket? Radar, lots of luck and an occasional great sense of timing has kept me away from speeding tickets for some time now. Last one I got was in my 1974 Chevy Monte Carlo going 71mph under the Verazano bridge in Brooklyn. The next day my college buddies told me that was a police training ground - at least back then.
No one, let me repeat, no one was working with the hammer on my car, he-he-he. Everyone should read those posts. I had two squeaks left and right back seat area two month ago and they were diagnosed and fixed in under 1 hour, simple lubrication did it, no need to hammer and install nuts and bolts like in new ls430, you have to admit---that's funny.
I have almost 50k on my almost 3y.o S500(previous body style) and had not one problem, not one, no electrical problem and no hammering needed. The only time when fear of having trouble with the car appears in my mind is when I read posts at edmunds and think:
"Is that going to happen to me because it happend to these people?" But there are no more then 20-30 people in the MB S forum and may be 5 that always post and may be 5-7 posts total about problems with the MB S-----JUst as many as had been posted with LS in the last 7-10 days.
It is I who feels your pain and I love my dealer and I only had to change service department "assistant manager" once.
NOw I'm out of here because all this talk of problems gives me the crrrrrrrrrrips. I'll be back if and when hammering will have to be done to my car.
.........and no, I don't need navigation or carphone---carphons are pure waste. My Verizon serves me well in and out of the car in US and Voicestream (GSM, oh yeah) when I'm in Europe.
These forums can cause pain-----after reading all posts about waxing and washing the car yourself I bought afew things and did it once myself, I'm still in pain thinking about it. Put everything in the trash and back to my trusted carwash in Northern Virginia $14 vacum, clean windows and dashbord and wash or $19 for same plus wax and clearcoat sprayed. Don't no about you but works just fine for me once a month. Good deal I'm very happy.
Now I have to go and work on my English, love you all but hate the shape of your car---it is worse then washing and waxing yourself.
Two reasons why I can not buy LEXUS---the so called GOLD treatment on the outside if one wants it and the name, LEXUS---sounds like a name of a pornstar.
ljkxlk-----as for the STATUS of the car I think it wears out pretty fast for the owner and remains only in the eyes of people like you ---people like you are the once who keep the status of our cars beyond 1-3 month. How my car drives is another matter, I enjoy it every day.
I use MOBIL1 and only for my car, that's how much I love it!
Thank you both for your advice, once again. I'm probably going to make the purchase soon. Do you know if there will be any significant changes in the 2002 model? I'm wondering if I should wait until January, since the dealer will be taking orders in October.
Bolony-
You're right, your english needs a lot of work. Please post again when you can formulate your thoughts more coherently.
-pcbrs
Bolony - goodbye and good riddance!
has anyone experienced any problems, minor or major, on any LS430 with a production date of April 2001 or after? By April, Lexus should of taken care of any problems that existed on the earlier cars? or does the factory leave the production the same way as the ones made in october, november? just curious. if anyone knows
thanks
IF THEY MADE AN AWD VERSION MY WIFE WOULD GET IT.
BOLONY-- aren't you glad you don't have to worry about it. stay with MB, continue the lovefest, leave me to lexus and my 20k.
I'm off to Spain for two weeks please keep the peace here.
I think this forum is much better then MB S---all they talk about is washing, waxing, buffing....buffing, waxing, detailing.......Meguiar products versus Turtle Wax---booooring, booooring, boooring.
I'll take hammmmmmmering of and installation of "nut's and bolt's"(see posts above or in MB S forum) into Lexus over discussing wax products any time. You really know how to have good time here.
Adios.
abysmal. This car, which I had hoped would be my dream car, has instead turned into a major
league headache.
The problems with my LS 430, since I picked up the car in March, have been as follows. 1) A
taillight burned out before 1,000 miles. 2) A wheel bearing stopped functioning within the same
time frame, requiring replacement. I was originally told that the repair could be done with an overnight stay. 3) After taking the car in, I was advised that I would have to wait for a week with an ES 300 loaner. The original replacement bearing itself was found to be defective by the dealer before it was installed. 4) The replacement installed either had either to be re-replaced or another bearing went bad (in any event, another replacement requiring two more trips to the dealer had to be made). 5) I developed a crunching sound at the back of the car, which required overnight repair and two more trips to the dealer. 6) The steering wheel noise then developed, requiring overnight repair. The bottom line? Eight trips for repairs to and from my Lexus dealer in three months’ time for a wide variety of obvious defects. The dealer has been unfailingly polite and professional; it is the car which has been a complete disappointment. As I write this, the steering wheel noise has once more become manifest.
So does this sound like a “lemon?” Will Lexus stand behind its name and replace this $60,000
vehicle with one which works as well as it is marketed to be? Not a chance.
I wrote Lexus national with the foregoing This was not a dealer or service problem, in my
opinion. I suggested the vehicle was a lemon and should be replaced. The reply? No response to
my letter for two weeks. We then traded phone calls. I then was obliged to wait another week
for a response to my last phone call. The bottom line: Lexus refused to provide anything more
than the bare minimum mandated by the lemon laws, i.e. Lexus will provide a replacement vehicle
for a bad car only to the extent a Hyundai dealer would be required to, by law, under similar
circumstances. That means Lexus will replace the vehicle only if I have the same problem with
the car which requires five repairs, or if it is in the shop for more than a month. Lexus, which
holds itself out to the world as a manufacturer of cars with a well-deserved reputation for
reliability, will back up its reputation on a $60,000 vehicle to the same extent a seller of a Dodge Neon, a GEO Metro or a Ford Escort, i.e. the bare minimum required by law.(The most Lexus
national would go was to convince the locus Lexus dealer to offer to pick the vehicle up at my
home, drop off an ES 300 loaner and then bring the LS 430 in to repair the noisy steering wheel.)
Should a buyer of a luxury car -- marketed heavily on the basis of its reputation for reliability – be obliged to accept the same remedy as would be provided the purchaser of a car costing one fourth the price by a manufacturer known for shoddy manufacturing? It doesn’t seem fair, but that has been Lexus’s answer.
Include your VIN#
* Replaced driver side seat cushion assembly.
* Replaced moon roof.
* Squeak left front wheel.
* Shock absorber noise.
* Weak welds in rear wheel houses.
* Rear seat rattle.
* Left front window rattle.
* Engine vibration.
* Front brakes grab.
Lexus' reputation for reliability is getting a drubbing. I sure hope these 3 lemons are not the tip of an iceberg of many other lemons that we haven't heard from.
I have had no problems of any significance. I've had my Ultra Lux since last November; 13,000 miles on it now. I am still very happy with it, although it isn't as quiet as the early reports had led me to expect.
Conventional wisdom says that when you're on top of a market segment then it's time to "retune" and start seeing yourselves as COMPETITION.
The only problems I've had is a scratch in the paint, and the "groan". My dealer is Lexus of Fort Wayne, IN and they give me excellent service. They will pick up and deliver to my home, 115 miles away.
The new Nav and other features of the new ES300 are making me just a little jealous. I like the pop-up (in theory anyway) and it now includes Canada. Hopefully, the update to ours will come out soon with Canada as well. And, of course there's always THE DAMN PHONE to complain about.
I feel better now. Wouldn't want all those lurking S Classers to think all is perfection over here!
I didn't believe that post from the get-go. Guess I had plenty of company. A week to get a loaner ES-300 in conjunction with faulty replacement parts was a bit too dramatic. Reminded me of the bashers on the msn board that post a 1 rating and then do it often (they do it to MB's and BMW's too) so they can bring down the averages.
“Dzhango” is the name of a jazz mandolin player (Dzhango Reinhardt) from many years ago. I chose that name instead of “Mingus” or “Miles” (other jazz guys) simply because I liked the sound of Dzhango more. As far as I know, Dzhango has nothing to do with cars.
I bought my LS 430 car in mid-March, in Rockford, Illinois, about 100 miles from my home, at a then-healthy discount of $3,500. The price was markedly better than anything close to my home at the time. The sales guy was honest and professional. I have had my car serviced at Arlington Lexus in Palatine, Illinois (closer to my home but still six miles away). To repeat, I have no complaints as to either dealership. They have been courteous, knowledgeable and eager to help. I know this is true, especially with the servicing dealership, because I have been back there so frequently to have my car fixed.
The posts from “bolony” were pointedly different from mine, I thought, and I am miffed to have my posts compared to his. He was anti-Semitic, shrill and simply pro-MB. However, the people providing posts in reaction to the statements from “bolony” were, to my way of thinking, incorrect in concluding that “bolony” was wrong because, in their experience, Lexus as a matter of course is a wonderfully reliable car.
I had two reasons for posting my experience with my LS 430. First, I think that my experience makes the assertion that the LS 430 is necessarily a reliable vehicle is tenuous and by no means a given, especially given my experience. My primary reason for purchasing the Lexus was its greater reliability. This was based upon the Lexus’s reputation but also based upon my personal experience in the last few years driving a Toyota Avalon. My Avalon has had exactly one problem in three plus years. That problem (with the thermostat) was promptly recognized and fixed. Instead of my fixating on the problems with the Avalon, as I have with the Lexus, I have been able to focus on what a pleasurable, reliable ride that vehicle provided. By way of further comparison, my wife’s two-year-old Honda Odyssey has had zero maintenance (other than very routine maintenance, e.g. oil changes).
Before deciding to purchase the Lexus LS 430, I compared it to the S-series MB. I chose to purchase the Lexus, rather than the MB, primarily because of Lexus’s greater reliability. I have heard the knocks on the “derivative” styling of the Lexus (as well as the Avalon, for that matter), but I never had a problem with the styling. Both MB and Lexus provide a great ride with a lot of creature comforts. MB has a larger price tag but that is offset, at least in part, by the fact that the MB doesn’t lose its value as quickly as does the Lexus (at least as far as I recall, and it has been a few months since I made the comparison). But purchasing a Lexus, in my book, meant that I would not have to deal with the hassle of repeated visits for service on a poorly made car. At this point, if I had to make the decision again, I would have purchased the MB for an entirely personal reason. The MB dealership where I would have been obliged to have the vehicle serviced is fairly close to my home and is conveniently located on the way to the train station.
My second reason for submitting the post was my reaction to Lexus’s treatment after my complaints. I believe these were legitimate complaints about an expensive car which wasn’t (and still isn’t) cutting it. I think it’s a lemon. I expected more for the premium price I paid for this vehicle. However, Lexus’s reaction to all of the foregoing was straightforward. If I though the vehicle was a lemon, I was obliged to prove that assertion by using the same standards as those which are established as the bare-bones minimum standards allowed by law for ANY car, no matter the cost. Those legal minimum standards are the same one employed to determine the very least quality a vehicle must have if it is sold in the U.S. Only if the Lexus could be proven a lemon under those minimal standards would my assertion that the vehicle was a “lemon” be honored.
The nonstop, positive comments in this forum regarding Lexus’s outstanding reliability are misleading, in my opinion, given my personal experience. I think prospective purchasers should have all of this information available in making a luxury vehicle purchasing decision.
I would be curious as to what anyone else thinks as to whether: 1) My vehicle is a lemon; and 2) Whether standards for replacing a Lexus which has repeated problems should be different than those involving, for example, a Hyundai.
Also, you have about a 30 minute time period after posting in which an "Edit" button shows up beside the date and time of your post - you could use that to fix the special characters that pasting to here from Word seems to mangle.
Hope this helps.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Seems to lead to the usual cautious advice of not buying the first year if possible.
As for your troubles, I understand your frustration and anger. The surprising lack of response from corporate Lexus is what caused me the most doubt. As you state, the dealer is apparently responsive and gave you a loaner (I doubt Hyundai does) and the service dept. seems to be trying as well. Put simply, you might indeed have that rare true "lemon" that absolutely every car maker makes now and then. While I can understand that Lexus could attempt to limit their liability to exactly what the law requires (lemon law), that is not in keeping with my experience or expectations of them.
This is where most doubt arose. The general experience of all drivers surveyed gives Lexus the highest marks for its reliability AND service. That doesn't mean they can't screw up and when they do, someone has to suffer. Apparently that is you in this case. While this doesn't make your situation any better, you are a far more rare example than most. It has been my personal experience and that of many others. Just read the Benz board to get an idea of how often they have serious problems with both mechanical issues and the service they receive, including the famous "we know about that, but can't do anything about it". And they paid far more for that privilige. Again, this doesn't help or comfort you, I know. It's all a dice throw and you threw a 7. Odds are you wouldn't, as most of us didn't, but it happens.
Finally, I agree that while the law doesn't require Lexus to do more than it requires of Hyundai, Lexus should. It is how they market themselves and they should make this right, no matter the cost. If these things happened as you described, Lexus owes you a better response. We would all expect nothing less. I take exception with the notion, offered in another response to you, that a trip to BMW or MB could be the answer. Statistically, your odds of that 7 are higher and of a more serious nature with either of them. That doesn't mean Lexus didn't let you down and/or doesn't deserve your future business -but it is a generally accepted fact. Keep fighting with them and let us know the result. We might all learn something from this and certainly Lexus ought to. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I'd like to tint the windows of my LS430 (which has the Navigation) but the manual of the Navigation system recommends NOT to tint the windows because the material used to tint the windows contains some kind of metallic material that may interfere with the signal from the GPS. Does anyone out there who has their windows tinted with the Nav and had no problem. I called the local shop that does the tinting and they claim that the material they use does not contain any metallic stuff in it. Thanks.
We shouldn't blindly defend and worship Lexus like a cult, from the various posts, it seems that they definitely do have a few issues they need to address on their LS430.
Is it that hard to swallow?!
I love my Lexus, but my GS400 has had FAR more warranty problems than my Acura Legends ever had.
Let me list a few...
Sun roof cover keeps popping back 1/2" - got to get that replaced shortly, the part is now in.
Both front wheel speed sensors went bad giving dashboard warning lights. One at a time of course, requiring 4 visits overall to fix.
Door creaked in hot weather if someone put their arm on it (fixed by dealer putting foam in it).
Driver's seat creaked (and no, I'm not that heavy) - they never fixed it, but it seems to have gone away.
Not major things, but each one required one or more visits to the dealer. The dealer has been terrific, thankfully, or I'd be an unhappy camper.
Will I buy another Lexus? Probably, because other brands don't seem to be any better, or the cars aren't interesting enough (I think Acura blew it when they went from the Legend to the RL, but maybe they'll come back).
Flint, I understand your points re: "bolony." I agree that caustic comments on a board like this serve no purpose. I think the comments should remain informational. (I am thinking of Enigma's comments from last summer regarding pricing on the 2001 LS 430 as I write this). On the other hand, I don't think a sound refutation of a shrill, pro-MB guy like "bolony" can be based on the notion he is wrong because Lexus is always right.
Second, as I mentioned earlier, if I had it to do over, I would select MB for the entirely personal reason that its local dealership is closer to my home. I agree that an MB is more likely to require servicing. My errors were: 1) In assuming the LS 430 would be comparable in quality to either my Toyoya Avalon or my wife's Honda Odyssey (and would therefore require very minimal servicing); and 2) That if the vehicle in fact proved to be a lemon, Lexus would provide more than the legal minimum relative to its replacement policy, given the premium price it asks for.
Finally, I registered as "Abbott Costello" in order to avoid junk mail. "Abbott" is the name of my dog, a Labrador retriever (Abbott Labs). When mail comes to the house or e-mail comes to my computer with that name on it, we know that it is junk mail and can be discarded.
However, the Lexus Link antenna is in the back dash, near the subwoofer. Therefore, if you tint the back window with a metallic tint it could affect the Lexus Link.
In my case I used metallic tint on the side windows (metallic reduces more heat,lasts longer and requires a lighter tint color), and a non-metallic tint on the rear window. All is well after 2700 miles.
I also understand the no-spam name, many others do so as well. Bolony had posted just before you and his name was Chef Boyardee, I believe. It just was further proof he wasn't to be taken seriously, given his tantrums and negative posts. I shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion with you (and apologized). Despite bitkahuna and others finding this debate as some sort of cult following for Lexus and a stubborn refusal to accept Lexus' faults, that is just not the case. Read my post, I agree Lexus has some problems and should address yours more forcefully. I am not hiding here saying only good things about Lexus. When there is bad to be told, let's tell it. But there is quite a bit more good, on average, yet when we mention that, we are often called defensive, biased, etc. etc.
The doubt some showed toward your post was, possibly, born of a certain defensive nature that began on the luxo comparison boards where, generally anything not Benz is not good enough. We who believed Lexus has a better product were always accused of that. Some misinformation was spread and many of us quit posting over there for quite a while. When bolony's and your post showed up together, especially the nastiness in his, it caused some of those old feelings, I guess. But, no one here that I recall, ever said that such things just couldn't happen in a Lexus. Yes, there was surprise, but there is no cult (IMO)that sees only the good and none of the bad in Lexus. Just read back a ways and see some of the complaints. I went thru this a while back with bitkahuna who still evidently believes that cult exists here (or at least in me). Maybe some folks just won't be happy until we all sit around here and just trash Lexus. Well, I don't plan to do that unless they deserve it. And when they deserve it, I do it.
You certainly have enough reason to do it. I truly regret your bad experience and feel fortunate in my good experience. That is all I can really offer. Good luck with your situation and again, I'm sorry for what doubt I expressed, even though it was expressed mildly and with room for correction. Ray
Two other notes: I bought new in 1987 the all-new 1998 Honda Prelude. It was the 57th car built. I had it for 98,000 miles and never had a problem. Also, I plan on buying the new ES 300 as soon as it comes out.
As you said, all car manufacturers have their own problems they have to deal with, the German ones with their fuel sensor, for example. I'm surprised that there are quite many minor problems with your GS though.
However, as far as I'm concerned, as long as the issues can be easily traced and fixed and not be repeated, they don't bother me too much. I don't mind visiting the dealer on a few occasions as long as they are capable not giving me the silly run around or patronizing talk. One very important factor which Dzhango has pointed out is the dealer factor, it makes such a big difference.
In Canada I know, they have factory MB shops and their service is much better than the regular MB franchise dealer.
Lexus makes good cars, for example, the killer stereo (with the dash CD changer) and the quiet cabin. Would I buy them simply because of they are
much more reliable than the rest? Probably not.