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Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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  • jefftpjefftp Member Posts: 11
    jbianco:

    High performance tires have a shorter life than standard all-season tires. As I understand it, this is partly because the rubber is softer and more pliable, in order to get a better grip on the road. The Michelin treadwear rating on the tires you see recommended for the LS is only 240-300, whereas the cheaper Michelin's I'LL put on my wife's minivan have a treadwear rating closer to 500 (meaning they'll last almost twice as long). Expensive, short-lived tires are a price you pay for having a car capable of high performance... (just like the premium gas, ugh...)
  • drcomputerdrcomputer Member Posts: 82
    I replaced the original Dunlop 17" with Bridgestone Turanza Z Revo's. What a difference. They are a bit stiffer, but have MUCH better road handling. I know Bridgestone has discontinued the Z Revo's, but they have just renamed them to Turanza LS-Z. You will also have to get a slightly different size in the new line (225/45-ZR17). These tires are less expensive than the Dunlops and handle much better. What a great price/performance combination.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Sorry, I wasn't accusing anyone in here of "flame-stoking" in that discussion. I was just responding to a couple of posts commenting on what has been happening there. I was just asking that we *not* go there and get into the argument.

    I didn't mean to malign any of you, and if I came across that way, I do apologize.

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  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    ... for the nav info. This is a great board. So much useful data.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Saw the SC430 in the dark blue today and you are right, it is an absolute knockout in that color. I also saw a GS400 in white with tinted windows, a rear spoiler and what looked like 18" or 19" tires with spectacular wheels. Best looking GS car I've ever seen and so different than the base car. This car simply looked spectacular and could hold its own with anything from Germany. An aftermarket GS is probably still cheaper than a base German car and then you get all that fabulous reliability to boot. Couldn't help but think about our friend Bitkahuna.

    Pat - didn't take it that way. Personally I think you do a great job.
  • oac3oac3 Member Posts: 373
    i am about to pull the trigger on a '97 LS 400, 57K mi, black-on-black, fully loaded (except the NAV). dealer is asking $25,995. i test drove the vehicle and it drove well, except two things - the brakes felt mushy, and it vibrated slightly, plus it needs alignment. other than that, it looked, felt and drove good.

    here is my question: the car does not have an extended warranty, so what kinds of things can go wrong on such a late model vehicle ? can anyone help me with potential issues i have to look out for ? how about the price ? dealer says he is discounting from kbb # of $32K, and thinks $25K+ is fair enough.

    any help would be greatly appreciated

    thanks a bunch
  • silly1040silly1040 Member Posts: 48
    I'm about 8 months away from purchasing our second lexus (1st is a RX300).

    I love gadgets and I believe that Merc1 described the ride in a LS430 as a ride in a coffin. If that means quite and comfortable, sign me up. I've had the sports car, but I'll be doing a bunch of highway driving in the future and want to be pampered.

    I use cruise control all the time and would like to now about the laser cruise control. I think that it ensures that you don't come too close to someone in front of you and that you can set it to follow someone at a certain distance. Am I correct about this? What are the revues of the LS430 owners that have this option, how do you enjoy it?
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    You raise two issues.
    First, it would certainly be foolhardy when buying a $60K+ car to judge the ride on anything other than personal experience. You must judge it for yourself. Merc1 has never been in one, is admittedly biased against them and bases his opinion on hearsay only. Generally, this would not constitute the basis for a sound buying decision for you.

    As for the laser cruise - it basically operates as you describe and I, personally, have found it to work well if you use it as intended and understand its limits. You set the desired speed and one of 3 following distances. The system will attempt to hold the speed until it closes on the car in front. It will then gradually slow to match the speed of the car in front and even apply up to 20% of the brakes if you are closing too fast. When the slower car moves away, the cruise will return to the original speed. If you get too close, it will beep at you as a warning to take control. It is not accident avoidance and doesn't satisfy (me at least) in heavier traffic. Hope this helps.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I wouldn't describe the LS ride as "coffin like", but I doubt if you can find a vehicle in this class that is more "pleasantly quiet".

    The flip side of that quietness is that some of it is obtained by sacrificing the amount of fresh air, oxygen, coming into the cabin.

    Very well insulated (sealed), extremely low HVAC blower speeds (no inlet airflow), very little exit airflow (restricted outflow), results in a stale and humid cabin atmosphere.

    Hmmm, except for the darkness aspect maybe "coffin-like" is the more correct term.

    And speaking of the laser cruise how often does it "false", give you a "reading" from something other than the vehicle directly forward?
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    If your cruise question was directed to me, I have yet to have the system "false" on me. I even closely monitored during big curves, wondering if it would see the trees ahead or another vehicle ahead in the curve, but it hasn't done so yet. I keep it set on the closest following distance, though, so this might impact on it. I imagine, at some point, I'll find a scenario where it does "false", but if it continues to work as it has been, I'll be quite happy. After all, you can "outwit" nearly any mechanical system and cause it to fail, but the real proof is in the "everyday pudding" of real world driving and, so far, that's been an unqualified success. Now, if I can only get the idiot drivers to stop cutting in front of me because I leave more than 3 feet of clearance, all would be right with the world.
  • whybuy1whybuy1 Member Posts: 43
    Silly1040,
    I own an LS430 Ultralux with the Laser Cruise Control. I really did not have time to fully test it before I bought the car, but I am happy to say it works well. I use it all the time, even in SF Bay Area commute traffic. The feedback system seems to look at the distance to the next car and its speed. Speed increases are gradual. There are 3 selectable distance settings, each of which seems to vary with vehicle speed. I usually use the closest setting, which has you follow at a greater than average distance in commute traffic, but at the distance I usually like to maintain from the car ahead. It slows the car in three stages: first by letting off the gas, then by downshifting once or twice, and then by applying the brakes. It beeps at you if you get too close to the car ahead of you. It's great on highways. It doesn't work in heavy rain. I guess the laser and sensor does not work when when the window is wet. There is a way to return to normal cruise control in that event.
    It depends on the car ahead having reflectors to work. There have been times when I followed old trucks with tiny reflectors. The cruise control did not detect the truck as far away as it should have. It is not an auto pilot.
    In short, I use it all the time. It is a feature that adds to the enjoyment of both commute traffic and highway driving. It makes me drive less aggressively and lets me enjoy the ML sound system.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    LS430 - best riding car in the world under 100K and maybe even without that limitation. Very quiet, extremely smooth and pampers you to no end. It's exactly what a lux car should be and a wonderful ownership experience.
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    I just bought an '02 LS with Custom Pkg. Picked it up in January. All the electronics work well, although be prepared to spend time reading the owner's manual and practice (a lot) to get used to all the gadgets.
    The laser cruse control is very cool. Set the cruise at the desired speed and the car will automatically break (using engine breaking - down shifting to a lower gear) if someone cuts in front of you. But that doesn't mean you can kick back and not be fully aware of the traffic. For example, if there's traffic in front of you that comes to a stop, or slows very suddenly, YOU have to do the breaking. The manual also warns you not to use the laser cruise control in bad weather.
    The other thing I like about the car is that it's very quiet and the Levenson sound system is awesome. On the down side, the seat controls are on the bottom of the seat and confusing to operate. But once you get the seat adjusted properly, the memory takes care of the rest.
    I noticed someone made a comment about the HVAC...that the car tends to get humid inside due to the "coffin-like" seal to keep the car quiet. Happily, I have not had this problem. I'm in So Calif. so it never gets very humid. About the warmest it's been this winter is about 80-85 degrees and the A/C has worked perfectly.
    Hope this helps.
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    Hi, I some questions about the LS.

    1. Does the rear climate control systems operate on a different systen than the front? I want to be able to set one temperature for the driver, front passenger and a different temperature for the rear passengers.

    2. How well does the voice recognition work and what does it control. Temperature, NAV, radio, cruise control, phone?

    3. Is XM radio available on the LS? FM reception has been subpar from what I hear from previous LS430 owners. The power rod antenna seems to work much better in the last generation models. I like to listen to Baltimore stations and I work in Va. So far, only rod antennas seem to give me clear reception.

    4. Do the heated seats only cover the seat bottoms or the entire seats.

    These are some of the features that I'm looking for in my next car.

    thanks,
  • whybuy1whybuy1 Member Posts: 43
    I943973,
    I have an LS430 Ultralux. This car has rear climate controls in the rear armrest. The car has a separate A/C evaporator and air purifier behind the back seat which recirculates and purifies the rear seat air. The back seat controls can adjust temperature, but this affects the front temperature, too. The car can maintain a left/right temperature difference in the front seat, but the rear seat temperature is set by overriding the front seat setting. This car is made for Japanese executives. They sit in the back seat. They get the control, not the driver. The rear passenger can also adjust the rear fan speed and rear A/C compressor independent of the front seat controls. All these settings can also be controlled by the driver. Sometimes my wife sits in the back seat and controls the temperature. I then try to select my temperature by changing the left/right front temperature difference.
    The voice recognition is somewhat primitive. It works most of the time. I have found the touch screen buttons to be more convenient. I have only used it for the NAV system. I am not aware of other capabilities.
    I have no knowledge about XM radio. The FM sensitivity is OK, but not the selling item of the car. I carry a lot of CDs with me. Get your kid to download and burn CDs of your favorite music and keep them in the center console or 6-disk CD changer. I enjoy DBS radio at home and XM is something I would be interested in but only if it were integrated into the car. The Mark Levinson sound is very good.
    The seat heaters heat the entire seat. The seat coolers heat the entire front seat. The rear seat vibrators vibrate only the back and are rarely used.
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    I concur with all the comments related to the laser cruise control. It is a smart gadget. I usually use the long distance setting. When someone cut in front of me or the vehcile is going downhill and the warning beep is on, I first lower the distance setting one at a time. If the beep went out, I then gradually return to normal long setting. Otherwise, I temporary cancel the cruise control until the required clearance is available.
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    To: I943973
    I don't have the Ultra Pkg...just the Custom. The custom has most of the options that the Ultra has except for the back set climate controls and reclining seats/message. So I can't help you with back seat controls.
    However, I do have the voice recognition system. Quite frankly, it was all too confusing for me so I just use the touch screen controls. I think voice recognition only works with the NAV system...not the climate control or audio system. There are lots of gadgets in the car and it does take a while to get used to them all. And the voice activation is one that I just haven't had time to conquer. Now that I'm used to the touch screen, I'm not sure I'll even use voice system.
  • mrittermritter Member Posts: 10
    The voice recognition system can control Nav, Climate and audio. Refer to the Nav operators manual and you will see a list of all of the commands. I think there are about 200. I to believe that the touch screen is easier and faster than using the voice system but it is available to do so. I have the Nav/ML system not the custom lux or higher.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    What I find so amazing about the laser cruise control is the accuracy with which it is able to distinguish cars in front of me in my own lane from the adjacent lanes, even on curves. I have come to suspect that it detects the lane separator buttons, and in effect "sees" a 2-dimensional map of the lane in front of me.

    I do agree that in heavy traffic it is best to turn it off. But in less-than-heavy traffic it is extremely convenient; whenever I have to drive a loaner car I really miss it.

    The one improvement I wish they would make is for the car to remember the setting at the time the engine is turned off, and restore the same setting when it is restarted, so that all you need to do is to push the Set lever, instead of having to push the On button, then select the following distance, and finally reset the desired speed.
  • carguy911carguy911 Member Posts: 6
    Hi all!

    I am currently in the market for a new Lexus LS430, and before I head of to my dealer I would like to know reasonable prices to pay, or what to "shoot" for. I am definitely going to lease, because i much prefer it. If you wouldn't mind, could some of you tell me what a fair lease deal would be? What are some of your lease deals?
    Thanks very much in advance! I appreciate any insight.
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe mritter is correct that voice rec. can control the climate and audio - nav only is my understanding. But I'll check to be sure.
  • dsilver2dsilver2 Member Posts: 12
    You are correct,it only controls the nav.
  • woppenhewoppenhe Member Posts: 61
    Wait till you are very secure with the buttons, then, about 6 months or a year out, read the voice section. It makes perfect sense then, and is easier to use than the buttons for special marked points, going home, etc. till you learn the lingo, it is too confusiong to learn both what the system does, and how to control it by voice. I use the voice now preferentially to the screen for many things.
  • silly1040silly1040 Member Posts: 48
    Thanks all for the information/opinions on the laser cruise control. I look forward to test driving the vehicle this fall. I'm holding off in case any changes are made for 2003.
  • mrittermritter Member Posts: 10
    I can assure you that I sat in my 2002 LS430 on Saturday morning and using the voice control system, said "track up" and the CD switched to the next track up. I then said "track down" and the cd switched back to the beginning of the song it was playing. I got the commands from the NAV owners manual that I got out of the glove compartment because my system had switched to km instead of miles. I am not making this up and I am not nuts...I have read the manual. Would recommend you guys look at yours and let me know.
  • blehrlichblehrlich Member Posts: 92
    The voice control works for almost all audio functions, the trick is that the nav system has to be "on" (you have to have pushed the "I Agree" button). The manual has a list of available commands.
    It's funny, but there are so many different ways to command everything even a techno-idiot like me can do it.
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    Well, I don't doubt the voice does what you guys say, but you both have 2002 models. It doesn't do that in the 2001. The new commands must be part of the 2002 upgrade to the nav that aren't included/available on the 2001. It seems to me that Lexus screwed this up by not making these type of improvements software upgradable. This smacks of Mercedes making their phone system incompatible from one year to the next. Really bad foresight and customer relations.
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Well, I tried it today on my way into work. So far I've gotten it to work with the audio and Nav System. Pretty cool, just have to learn all the commands. But here's the question...
    It seems like I always have to push the voice button on the left side of the steering column to turn it on before using it. It doesn't stay on. Does screen transition have to be turned on for the voice command system to stay on? Any experts out there? Thanks.
  • mrittermritter Member Posts: 10
    jbianco12...The way i understand it is this. One push of the button per each command spoken. That is why I think it it still faster to use the touch screen.

    I am still checking to see if the Voice system can control the HVAC. It does not seem to in my quick pass through the NAV operation manual.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    When I got my 2001 LS 430, it came with the 17" wheels. I later learned (from this board) that the 16" wheels would give me a quieter ride. So when the original tires needed replacement (I have 31,000 miles on the car), I had the dealer replace the 17" wheels with 16", and I got Bridgestone Turanza LS-H tires, from the Tire Rack.

    I am here to report that the 16" wheels do indeed give you a much quieter ride! On smooth pavement, there isn't a very noticeable difference -- the 17" was already so quiet, you couldn't improve much on it. But on noisier pavement, including bridges (we have so many freeway overpasses here in Southern California), where the 17" tires sometimes were embarrassingly noisy, the difference is dramatic. So if any of you have 17" wheels and wish for the quietest possible ride, I highly recommend making the change.
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Thanks! I was hoping that wasn't the answer as I'm now not sure what value the voice recognition adds if we have to keep pushing a button to make it work. It kind of defeats the purpose of "hands-free" operation.

    Rennybosch...thanks for the input on tires. I think I like the look of the 17 in. tires better than 16. I guess it's a trade off between handling/quietness/durability/looks. Check a few messages back as another LS owner had positive feedback on the Michelin 17" Pilot HX MXM 245/55 16 tires. I also took a note that Bridgestone Turanza LS-Z 225/45-ZR17 were pretty good.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Was it the new Turanza tires or was it the 16" wheels?

    My bet would be on the tires.
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  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    Was it the tires or the wheels? Good question. You may be right (that it was mainly the tires) -- apparently the Turanza LS-H is a very new tire, replacing and improving upon the Turanza Revo. Despite my scientific curiosity, and my desire to be as helpful as possible to this board, I don't think I will have the dealer reinstall the 17" wheels, and buy 17" Turanzas, and report the findings to the board.

    In any event, I am very satisfied with the combined results.
  • tdo123tdo123 Member Posts: 102
    I have the Bridgestone tires and they came on my 2002 LS. I must admit, they are the loudest tires you could ever imagine. They perform great and look nice also, but at 40 MPH, it sounds like I am driving a monster truck. There must be a better compromise.
  • feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    tdo, I believe that the Bridgestone tires you speak of are the ER33 variety; at least that is what came on my 17' wheels. The Turanza LS-H is not asvailble for the 17" wheels and the ER33 is not to be confused with the very superior LS-H.

    I just put the LS-H tires on my wife's '98 LS400. Fantastic! I will be following rennybosch's lead and replace the 17"
    wheels on my LS430 with the 16" Turanza LS-H. Great grip, quiet, and fantastic cornering.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'm amazed that Lexus would go through all that trouble to build an ultra quiet car and then ruin the serenity with noisy tires. I ride in the euro version (2001) quite often and can't hear any more noise than in my car. Is it certain roads or did they change tire brands or do the tires vary by location?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    My sales guy told me that Lexus is once again thinking seriously about a V-12, possibly for 2003. It's a 50-50 bet. They would stretch the car a bit and it would be named the LS500 or LS600. They are very encouraged by the success of the LS430 which exceeded their expectations substantially. Anyone else hear anything like this. Maybe this is why someone had thought the car was being re-designed for 2003.

    He also says Lexus is horrendous at communications and forthcoming model literature. Unlike MB which makes future model and model changes literature available to dealers very early Lexus has been known to drop brochures and the like on them just before the car arrives. I remember how late the LS430 brochures became available in 2001. The car almost beat them in.
  • agent0986agent0986 Member Posts: 64
    dont all LS430's come with the Dunlop tires? my 2001 Euro came with the 17 in. Dunlop sport tires, and they are very quiet but on certain roads they do tend to give some noise, but they handle and offer good grip for a car of this size. I think they are a very good compromise between ride, quiteness, smoothness, and good handling, cornering, grip..
  • whybuy1whybuy1 Member Posts: 43
    ljflx,
    I work for a company that buys a lot of capital equipment from Japan and I have personally been involved with the purchases and post-sales contacts. My feeling, based on what I have been told and see, is that many large Japanese companies are not able to risk the possibility of not measuring up to what they have promissed. Also, they really don't understand or trust their American representatives. The easiest way out is for them to say nothing. I have found smaller Japanese companies that do not have this problem. Toyota seems to belong to the former group.
    It is easy to deal with this once you understand it and your contracts are written with the tendency toward poor communication in mind.
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    Wow...it was pretty warm this weekend and the A/C in the LS430 worked great...even better than my Caddy. I think the air is colder in the Lexus than the Caddy. The cooled seats were an added bonus. Just sit back and enjoy the ride! This really is a nice car.
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  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I remember on Toyota's Japanese web site that there is a 5.0 V12 engine in some car they only sell over there. It may even be offered in the Celsior (LS 430) in Japan, but I can't remember.

    You've made me want to check out the site again. It's www.toyota.co.jp if you're interested.
  • agent0986agent0986 Member Posts: 64
    it is used in their flag-ship executive sedan, the toyota century which is the most prestigious car offered by toyota. $120,000 to $130,000 base price
  • jbianco12jbianco12 Member Posts: 125
    There's been some noise in the newspaper about Toyota having some engine sludge problems. Consumers are saying they followed recommended oil changes, but were having the above problems. Toyota, of course, claims the consumer didn't follow proper maintenance guidelines. So, a lot of finger pointing.
    The question: Has anyone had this problem with their LS? And if so, any suggestions on how best to handle the problem with dealers?
    Thanks.
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    I think the sludge problems only applies to the V6 and I4 engines. Only ES and RX owners need to worry. The GS and LS models probably don't need to worry since they use an I6, V8 configuration. Its a design flaw in the V6 and I4 engines.

    The easiest way to fix this problem is to put in synthetic oil. Synthetic can withstand much higher temperatures than regular oil.
  • nealm1nealm1 Member Posts: 154
    Toyota initially blamed the consumers for failing to change the oil regularly, but we got a letter from Lexus last week about our RX; it said they would extend the engine warranty for sludge related problems (I forget how far out). Looks like they reacted, albeit a little late, to the potential black eye and have decided to make the repairs under warranty regardless of the claimed failure to keep up with the maintenance schedule. It came late, but who thinks DaimlerChrysler would have done this?
  • l943973l943973 Member Posts: 197
    Acutally, DaimlerChrysler did have a significant problem in the past and immediately notified their customers before any problems came up. Don't remember the exact problem but it made it in the news. I think it was with their A-Class.

    I heard many Toyota owners did end up paying but got reimbursed. My wife had a 4 Runner in the past which had a gasket problem. It cost us $2000 in repairs. A year later, Toyota annouced a recall about this gasket problem. Now the repair is free. Fortunately, she wrote a nasty letter to Toyota and got reimbursed for the $2000.
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