Lexus LS 400/LS 430

wwest · June 2002

The interior surface of the windshield, and beyond, is "illuminated" by an IR source at a 90 degree angle. If no raindrops are present on the outside then most of the illumination continues into the great beyond. If raindrops are present then the IR illumination is reflected (refracted, back-scattered) to an IR sensor. Enough refraction and the wipers are activated.

deaconjones · June 2002

I have a friend who brought a 1999 Lexus LS 400, and is willing to part with her 1990 model.

She is an extremely close friend, and her gesture to me is out of good will alone, that I am sure. Think of your kindly, older aunt selling you her Cadillac for under blue book.

I'm just curious about first run production models. Any feedback on the reliablity of the first year Lexus vehicles? Or, does anyone have a site that's good to luck at?

Thanks.

scottphillip · June 2002

I have 5000 miles on my 02. This is the smoothest, most trouble free car that I have owned. After reading the posts, I recall that my wipers have come on in the heat too. Besides that and a squeak in my auto-swing-away steering wheel, I haven't had any trouble. True luxury for me!!
Scott

nealm1 · June 2002

The 90 LS is a fabulous car, a true classic, and you will love driving it. I sold my 90 LS at 125k to get a LS 430, and hated to see it go.

However, you are buying a high-mileage car with costly replacement parts. My air conditioner compressor went at ~100k; it was, as I recall, about 2k to get it fixed. (Other common items -- water and pwr steering pumps, LCD "bleeding" on the radio and climate systems). Even one of (if not the) the most spectacularly reliable car of its type ever made is going to break at this stage of its life. It will break much less often than a MB or a BMW, but it will break. And when it does it will not be cheap to repair. These are complicated cars.

Don't let this dissuade you. You will absolutely love the car, and for a complicated machine with high miles, you will be amazed at how reliable it will be. You can easily get 200k out of it.

wwest · June 2002

First service should have been at 7.5k according to the owner's manual.

jsb16 · June 2002

I completely agree with nealm1 about the 90 LS. I am driving mine with 145K miles and not one of my dozen employees drives a car with a lower book value (I figure about $5-6K), I could easily afford a new 02 LS, and yet I keep it anyway. I have been following this board in anticipation of the upgrade and I'll regret it if the new one is not as trouble free. It seems like everyone has to replace the power steering pump and other assorted steering parts can be a $1500 repair. The A/C evaporator costs $1500. Everyone loses the LCD on the AC unit and that runs about $500 too. The unit works but you can't read ths clock. I had to skip that repair and velcro a small black Brookstone digital clock over the bad LCD. It's a great car and the $2000 I might spend a year now is nothing compared to the depreciation on a new vehicle. It's not like the car is likely to break down and inconvenience you but you have to have the cash for expensive repairs if you are looking to buy a 12 year old car. My lexus dealer is happy to loan me a new vehicle for oil changes even on this old car so if I need a repair, it is only money and not like I am without a car while it is fixed. When I get an LS 430, the person who gets my 90 LS will be lucky. I hope you enjoy yours too if you buy this vehicle.

deaconjones · June 2002

Thank you for your answers. I have yet to drive the car, but I think for the low price of it, even if there was a need for $2K of repair (hopefully not every year), it would be worth it for a few years or so.

The other way I am now looking at it, is for the price she's willing to part with it (around $7k), there's not much else out there worth trusting.

It appears to be more reliable than used BMW's of the same era, at least from what little research I've done.

I do have one more question--in the car I currently drive, I've installed a pretty good stereo system. How is the stock stereo on your 1990 models? Did you replace it, or stick with it?

Thanks again for the replies.

paul29 · June 2002

Which stereo does it have , there were two a Pioneer and a Nakamichi ?

stlouisslim · June 2002

I'm trying to take delivery of a Custom Lux next week, but I'm still getting grief from the wife about the interior colors, and I need some help. According to the Lexus web site (and my foggy memory at the dealership), the ecru color is very light, almost white, and the ivory is a light tan several shades darker than the ecru. My wife (who knows nothing about Lexus, but used to be a profesional seamstress and knows lots about clothing colors) says I have it backwards: ecru is light tan and ivory is lighter and nearly white. I really need to know this before I commit to the wrong car. Thanks.

stevestein · June 2002

Your wife may be right in general, but Lexus uses a different palette. I have a mystic sea/ecru, and the ecru is almost white. It doesn't look that way in the brochure either. Go to www.lexus.com, and go to "Build your Lexus".
Select a gold exterior, and you will get both the ivory and ecru as interior choices. It's easy to switch between them and see the difference. The ecru is pretty true to the actual color.

wwest · June 2002

I have a 92 LS400 burgandy/ivory and I would be more than glad to upgrade to an LS430 of the same colors, no can do says Lexus. I could get the ecru but that would be like putting white carpets in a house full of kids, no thanks.

Lexus shoulda stuck to cloning MBs and left the Cadillac lokalikes to the bluehairs.

nealm1 · June 2002

My 90 LS had the stock Pioneer stereo w/o CD. It was the best base OEM stereo I had heard at the time, but nothing like the Nak upgrade. I am a stereo buff, but I was able to make do w/the Pioneer, but after listening to the Mark Levinson, I wonder how! The Nak in my RX, by the way, STINKS, and is nowhere near as good as the Pioneer in the LS. Just horrible, and I have replaced the speakers (an improvement, but Lexus should be embarassed).

FYI, when I got my 2001 LS a year ago March, the dealer gave me an $8,500 trade on the 90 w/125k miles. I am certain that the dealer did this to sweaten the deal because I was a very good customer and they were unable to justify a larger discount off of the LS sticker price when they had a waiting list (I got about 2200 off of the window sticker). Based on this, if the mileage is in line, a $7k price for this 90 seems quite reasonable.

BEWARE THE ECRU! It looks great, but it gets dirty very very easily and I have not yet found a cleaner that is both safe and effective at taking off grime etc. The spot on the door where my knee rests has discolored, and the Lexor (?) leather cleaner will not take it off. I love the look -- so bright and cheerful -- but I won't get it again.

deaconjones · June 2002

I'll be test driving it tonight, and may borrow it from her for a day or two to see how it feels/acts, and perhaps run it by my mechanic.

The financial decision isn't too major--its keep my old pos and put anywhwere from 1-2$K in it (more than the worth of it), or spend close to $7k.

Scary to spend any significant amount though on a 12 year old car with 105K miles on it....

I'm pretty sure she would have the base equipment all around, including stereo, so thus the Pioneer.

If there's enough space, I'd probably replace it with my Sony X-plod CD player along with the speakers I have. But I'll have time to make up my mind on that I suppose.

Thanks again for the kind and helpful responses.

dealerbasher · June 2002

Folks, great discussion, thank you!
I have to confess -- I can't stand any rattles or noises in the car. That's why I am looking forward to driving a Lexus. I could probably afford only a used one, maybe 1996-1997. All cars I had until now (even brand new ones) literally drove me crazy with rattles, squeaks, and other noises. Lexus LS400 has a vault-quiet reputation. Is it really true?
Also, how was your dealer experience? I had awful experience with Toyota dealers, hope it's not the case with Lexus. If you can recommend a Colorado dealership I would be most grateful. Thank you.

wwest · June 2002

In general I think you will find that Toyota dealer's service shops will be better overall than Lexus. Toyota has a huge installed base and many Toyota dealers carry more than one brand.

Lexus dealers, single marque all, have to survive with a relatively small installed base that is also VERY reliable. The only way they can survive is through customer gouging, BIGTIME!

nealm1 · June 2002

I am also extremely (some would say abnormally) sensitive to rattles etc. Pull-off-the-road-and-hunt-for-the-rattle sensitive. It is one of the main reasons I drive a Lexus. In both of my LS's, I have found that whenever a rattle pops up, it is something I have caused (change, a loose cassette, CD jewel cases, etc). These cars aren't perfect, but they are BY FAR the best in the industry on this point.

wwest is right that Lexus dealers are expensive (and can be ridiculously so) but in my experience (and I think in the experience of others on this Board) they are terrific in every other respect. Don't know what your problems were w/the Toyo dealer and what in particular you are hoping to avoid w/the Lexus but unless it was value, I am sure you won't be disappointed.

jefftp · June 2002

I'm not sure I agree with WWest's statement on dealers. In the survey's of dealer satisfaction that I have seen, Toyota usually ranks in the bottom quarter, and Lexus in the top five.

As for rattles, I think Nealm1 is right. Most of the noticable rattles are caused by loose objects. However, I do have two annoying rattles in the front doors of my LS, that I can't seem to nail-down.
The car is so quiet, that you will find yourself annoyed by noises like the squeak of your shoe on the brake pedal, or the crinkling of the grocery bag in the back seat.

A co-worker recently bought at Kuni in Denver, and tells me he is very happy. If you're in southern Colorado, Lexus of Albuquerque is ok.

wwest · June 2002

The next time you truly have a "complaint" regarding something about your Lexus, note that the dealer personel will "note" it as a "service request", never as a complaint.

jsb16 · June 2002

I have the Pioneer with factory CD changer in my 90 LS and I think it is excellent. I will expect more when I get a 430 with ML sound but that costs plenty too. I doubt it is worth your bother to replace the base system unless the vehicle you are looking at has no CD and your only option for CD sound is to feed through an FM input. I installed that on my Dad's 560SEL as a surprise gift and it wasn't bad. With regard to the interior colors, I don't know why Lexus groups the leather and interior wood colors like they do. It can't be all that expensive to choose leather, wood, and exterior color independently. I only like the golden birdseye maple and that may keep me from getting the custom luxury model. Since I won't get ecru based on the light color, that forces me to black leather and limited color choices. Has any one found out if you can order a LS 430 from the factory with gray or tan leather with birdseye instead of walnut trim?

wwest · June 2002

Available in Canada but not in US. Lexus will only custom order for folks like Bill Gates.

ljflx · June 2002

I had the same reservations as you about the ecru (yes it really is an off white for those unsure) vs. the ivory (which is the color most of us would call ecru) and must tell you it stays cleaner than you would think. I have two kids who are getting in and out of it quite often after baseball games, parks etc. Stays cleaner than you would expect and easy to clean anyway.

Just got back from London again and couldn't believe how many SC430's I saw over there. I love that car more and more everytime I see it. Saw a black with ecru interior over there and it was a knockout. All the blacks I see here have had black interiors. But the ecru makes the blacl exterior look all the more awesome.

slexy · June 2002

There are 166 posted feedbacks for this tire on Tire Rack's web site. None are for an LS 430, and one is for a GS 400. There are mostly, very positive comments in all tire characteristics, except for tire wear (around 20,000 on different cars), and the tread follows the lines in the roads. Has anyone replaced their Dunlop SP 270 225/55 17 W's with the same size tire in the above model from Bridgestone? At $152 per tire vs. the Dunlop price of $258, the Bridgestones look attractive, although I expect to get about 28,000 miles out of my Dunlop's. FYI the new Pirelli P Zero/Nero tires in "W" look similar in tire construction/characteristics to the Dunlop 270's, but Pirelli won't have the exact same replacement size until the end of the year. I am very interested in these, since the tire tread/style look much nicer to me than the Dunlop's. Any input on replacement tires will be appreciated.

aceking2000 · June 2002

To all Lexus owners:

Took my lexus to the dealership yesterday because of suspicious rattle. After one of the salespeople rode with me, we switched to another car and I heard the same minor "noise". One reason I think we Lexus owners pay so much attention to those noise may be because the car is just too quiet. I later found out that those noise was just some materials rubbing sound. Can't beat that. Any other experiences? P.S. Most of that noise comes fromt he passenger's side.

wwest · June 2002

Yesterday I checked the pollen filter on my 01 911, mostly because I was curious as to where/how it was mounted in comparison to the Lexus. To my great surprise it was completely clogged! 9k miles, 1600 in Europe, 3500 from POE, and the rest local, no dirt roads, etc.

Within the last year or so I have changed out the pollen filters on a 95 LS (20k mile interval), a 00 GS3 (8k miles), and an 01 RX (15k miles). None of the Lexus filters were even close to being clogged.

What gives?

Now I know that Lexus strives mightily to reduce the blower speed to achieve QUIET, and I also know that one of the reasons they can do that is the Lexus products do not allow much atmospheric "leakage", very little "outflow" of stale cabin air.

Using previously "conditioned" airflow, recirculated again and again, allows them to keep the cycling of the A/C compressor fairly low and thus their MPG numbers artificially high.

But the airflow outlet ducts for the 911 are even smaller than any of the Lexus products of which I am familiar. Maybe the difference is that Porsche keeps the blower speed up fairly high, creating a higher level of outlet flow due to air pressure.

Or maybe the actual exhauster airflow for the 911 is into an aerodynamic low pressure area, unlike the Lexus products wherein the "exhauster" outlet is always within an aerodynamically created high pressure area, under the rear quarter panel.

My wife and I have both noticed that we become drowsier on long trips in the Lexus vs the 911, do you suppose the excitement of driving the 911 keeps us wide awake or is it the low oxygen content along with the comfort and quiet in the Lexus? Or maybe some of each?

Has anyone used a CO2 sensor in their Lexus to see just how bad things get on a long drive?

anthonycecil · June 2002

I usually put the window down every half hour or so, to keep the car fresh. Just a few seconds. I would think a Porsche is just so different, that one is just more attuned, and therefore wide awake. I enjoy my Lexus, but a Porsche is a Porsche. I just can`t think of being sleepy in one. Good nite Tony

trmga · June 2002

I'm getting ready to purchase another Lexus. Can anyone recommend a dealer in the Raleigh, NC/Norfolk/Richmond/Northern VA/Wash.DC area where they got a particularly good deal?

kvsm3 · June 2002

Trmga,
A dealership I highly recommend is Pohanka Lexus in Chantilly Va (NVa). I just bought a Lexus IS 300 2 months back. I know they have incentives on those cars and I did get a good deal. I am sure they will have good deals on all other models as well. This was my first Lexus purchase and by no means is it going to be my last. The dealership sales team is very good. My salesman is Burton Ellis. Very easy to deal with.
The service at Pohanka Lexus is outstanding as well.
HTH

balderdash · June 2002

I see several comments have been made about squeeks and noises. My '99 LS400 was vault-tight and never squeeked or rattled, but my 2001 LS430, purchased in June,2001 is another story. I took it back to the dealer six times to work on a squeek in the driver's door panel. They finally seem to have fixed it after supposedly finding a broken or loose weld that was allowing "too much flexing." There is additionally an array of subtle things, that suggest that the new car was not assembled nearly as well as the old one. For ex. the front seat came loose, the cover door of the moonroof closes with a harsh clank, and the AC seems to have a mind of its own.To save my marriage I had them reprogram the door locks so that putting the car in gear wouldn't automatically lock all the doors. My wife has a thing about locked car doors because when she was a girl her father used to alway make sure her door was locked, and she resented his over-protectiveness. Go figure. Anyway, our garage is too narrow for doors on both sides to open at the same time. So I park so I can get in, then back the car out for her to get in. So naturally, when she goes to get in, the damn door is locked, and I couldn't remember to unlock it for her after it locked by itself going into reverse!Just thought I'd share that oddity with you all.

jrdh23a · June 2002

Does anyone out there think this tire, which was developed for the LS430, is any good? I think they are loud and awful. My dealership says they have had lots of complaints about them and Lexus is trying to somehow make amends. They are now recommending Michelin MXV4 Energy Plus and there is a possibility Lexus may kick in some for these replacement tires. Any thoughts on these Michelin tires.

sorry1 · June 2002

I am the sorry owner of a 2001 LS430 who has had the same steering column noise "fixed" for the sixth time. The steering column makes a loud grinding, moaning sound when the ignition key is shut off and the steering wheel retracts. I have read about others with the same problem but cannot locate those messages. Is there anyone else out there with the same problem?

bcleepe · June 2002

I had mine fixed six months ago and the problem was gone. The dealer said all they have to loosen up the grip tiny bit to ease the retraction.

ljflx · June 2002

Is that your only problem with the car or do you have others?

sorry1 · June 2002

After spending approximately $60K on a new car, expecially a Lexus, don't you think six repairs in 12 months on the same manufactures defect is enough?

ljflx · June 2002

Thanks for your politeness. You should have read the board - it had the answer but I won't waste my time pointing out to you where it is.

humbledon · June 2002

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with this problem, just haven't been to the dealer to have it checked, since in 20,000 miles, thats the only thing I can complain about, I did just replace the tires with Michelin MXV4 Plus. Since thats the only problem besides hitting a deer (ouch), no external dammage, just the under pan

sbenls430 · June 2002

Dear trmga:

I have just bought one from the internet sales manager at Johnson Lexus in Raleigh. You should definitely call him as he will offer you a great price. He beat all my other offers, even from my local dealer and priceline. He will not monkey around with you either. I emailed him and he immediately called me back and in less than 2 minutes gave me a great price with no haggling. His email address is spalmer@johnsonlexus.com. You will not be disappointed. If you have already talked with someone else there you should still call him back because he will seriously compete for customers outside his market. Scott

slexy · June 2002

Go to tirerack.com and read the feedback from actual consumers who bought this tire. Check out the feedback on Bridgestone Pole Postion also. But, for now (until the Pirelli P Zero/Nero tire in our size comes out), I like the Dunlop SP 270's in a 225/55 17 W. Lexus cars are so quiet, that you will hear road noise from any tire depending upon road surface conditions (especially in a W rating=strong sidewall). They handled nicely with my Euro suspension, and will get about 28,000 miles of wear by rotating every 5,000 miles (probably more if you rotate/balance every 3,000). What amazed me about the tires is that in 26,000 miles, I have not balanced the tires! My dealer showed me every 5,000 miles that the tires were wearing, and still are, perfectly. I do check tire pressure every two weeks. But, because the fit to the stock, chrome wheels was so perfect, I hardly ever had to add air (except for hot/cold, expansion/contraction depletion. I never had a flat even with all the construction going on in my area.
I wish tirerack had more info on the Dunlop's ( "N/A" shows for most categories of tire characteristics). Bridgestone and Michelin are fine tires, but they will only get 17,000 to 20,000 miles of wear according to the consumers who bought them and gave feedback on tirerack.com. The main complaint I have about the Dunlops is that they are about $100 per tire more expensive than the Bridgestone's Pole Position or Michelin's Energy Plus MXV4's. But, I like to change tires as infrequently as possible, so I will go with the Dunlops for replacement until an overall better value comes along (in my exact tire size). I was told by my dealer that the great short turning radius on the 430 means that I should probably stick to the exact same size tire for replacement. Good Luck with whatever tire you go with, and let's all of us using this chat room (even if it is only from time to time) share our replacement tire experiences.

nofeer · June 2002

OK OK< it's summer time but i would like anyones insights as to the best winter tire for my ls430 16", i have some snow and ice about 6 times a year. If winter tires can address my traction problems then i won't have to depend on my wife's suv. I love driving this thing.
Also, what about just having studded tires/ or winter tires on the back? Anyone with experience with winter tires on the ls430 and 16" tires (no euro suspension)

02ls430 · June 2002

Just got my wife an 02 LS 430, Euro/Nav/ML. Can anyone tell me if it's possible to change the C-Best settings yourself? Also, wondering if anyone has a list of all the C-Best Options-they seem to be "sprinkled" throughout the owners manual. Thanks for any info.

slexy · June 2002

Oops, my posting of #2989 was in response to posting #2981 vs.#2931.

sorry1 · June 2002

Sorry, didn't mean to come across as rude, I am just very frustrated with Lexus and the situation. I did read through the board and was able to find a message which contained very useful information for me. Thank you.

topgun7 · June 2002

We got our 02 LS ultra a couple weeks ago. I noticed that the bass for the ML is very weak. I have to boost the bass to the max to feel any low frequency sound. Does the ML systems in LS come with a subwoofer? We had an SC with ML and the bass is much stronger. Is this a problem with my particular ML or this is true for all the LS. Thanks.

hjz · June 2002

I have a brand new lexus ls 430. I took it to the local car wash the other day. please note though that it was the _first_ time it was EVER taken there. I have used this car wash over the past 10 years with no problems till now. they applied the tire dressing onto the car. I made sure that there was NO over spray on the car or any other blemishes on the car before I left the car wash. when I got it home, there was some tire dressing "thrown" from the tires on the inside of the wheel well, and down some of the trim panel. knowing that I was going to wax the car the following morning and NEVER having ANY problems with this car wash, I left it on. next morning when I go to wax the car, the tire dressing will not come off! I tried everything that I had but it did not come off. took it back to lexus and they used some kind of solution to get some of it off - not much though. the lexus body tech had never seen anything like it. the car wash had said it was tar and that it was NOT there tire product. I had the lexus tech and another body shop tell me that it was not tar but most likely something else, or the tire dressing. both techs tired to get some of it, but was mostly scared to do further work because of the paint coming off. so... just in case it was not the car wash, has someone else had this problem with the paint? the spots seem to be a yellowish-green color and seem to be "etched" into the clear coat. any feedback will be appreciated! thanks!

nealm1 · July 2002

topgun, you have a sick stereo and need to have it fixed. Maybe the subwoofer is disconnected. The bass on this unit is awe-inspiring; not boomy, rap-wagon bass, but it is tight, precise, and concussive with the right program material. I have NEVER had the bass knob set past 12:00, and I am an inveterate fiddler and play with the controls constantly. If you even think for a moment that the bass is defecient, there is something desparately wrong with the system. Just ask them to crank up one of the demonstrators.

I am sad to report that after 6 mos' absence, my groan is back! This weekend, it groaned at me twice. I am just sick about this and sympathize with sorry1. There is a TSB on the issue, which involved more than lossening a fitting, but its effectiveness is, apparently, temporary. Oy!

trmga · July 2002

Thanks Scott. I'll definitely be talking to your guy.

scottphillip · July 2002

My 2002 makes the same noise at times. When I took it into the dealership for an oil change it went mute.

The noise doesn't really bother me.

Scott

c5gold · July 2002

I'm a new member to this discussion. I also posted this question on the member's board - sorry for the duplication.

I pick up a new LS430 UL tomorrow. I've seen several references to default settings for nav system and ??. Does this refer to the dealer's ability to "program" various functions in the car ? On the test drive, I noticed the auto door locks do not unlock (rear) when car is shut down or in Park. Is this programmable ?? What else is ?
Any info would be appreciated.
Thx

rennybosch · July 2002

c5gold, you can have the dealer program the doors so that when you put the shift control into Park, all four doors are unlocked at the same time. There is also an option that controls when the doors lock automatically: either as soon as you take the shift lever out of Park, or when you reach 12 mph, or never (I think).

You can also have them program the remote entry control to unlock all 4 doors at once. The default is that when you press the Unlock button on the remote entry control once, it unlocks the driver's door only; pressing it twice unlocks all the doors. To me it is more convenient to unlock all four at once, but I realize to some people it may be a security issue; you might feel more secure if it only unlocks your one door, especially at night, in a big city.

An additional tip: When you lock the doors with the remote control, it doesn't turn the headlights off (assuming they are on), but if you press Lock a second time, it does turn them off. Quite neat.

Enjoy!

marwankw · July 2002

Hi, I'm interested in installing the original park assist sensors kit from Lexus to my 1998 LS400, the dealer told me that the sensor kit include 2 sensors for back only, anybody know if I bought 2 sets of sensors will I be able to put them in the front also? will it work?

dustbird · July 2002

Just bought a '01 LS with Lexus Link, but am not sure I *need* this service. Would appreciate comments on experience with Lexus Link...good, bad, or otherwise.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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