Lexus LS 400/LS 430

wwest · August 2002

Stick with them, they're the quietest.

whybuy1 · August 2002

My front passenger door developed a rattle. I found that it usually happened in the morning, but not the evening. I found I could fix it by opening the window a bit then reclosing the window.

ls430ul · August 2002

I read all the posts about these two issues and wondered if there was a "final resolution" or fix.

Outside temp reads 3-4 degrees too high. Does the dealer know how to move the sensor away from the AC compressor?

Parking in hot sun triggers rain sensor. Is there a new sensor to ask for or should I just turn the wipers off and not turn them on except in light rain?

----

Also, I noticed a small squeal when the auto-door-closer works on the driver door. This doesn't bother me much because I close the door myself. Is this common? Should I ask that it be fixed or will it likely cause rattles when they take the door apart?

jbianco12 · August 2002

The auto door closer should not squeal in operation. Have 'em fix it. Mine are very quiet.

I have the same problem with the rain sensor. When it's hot out, there is a "ghost wipe". There is a fix. The dealer can change out the sensor. For the time being, I've been doing what you suggest...keep the wipers off until it starts raining. Next time I bring it in for servicing I plan on raising the issue.

mheni1 · August 2002

for "bianco12". I purchased a 2001 LS 430 in Dec 2001. Dealer did not discuss extended warranty. I plan to keep the car for 6-7 years--hopefully and the extended warranty sounds interesting. Pls provide details of warranty to include cost. Thanks

flint350 · August 2002

I took the LS430 in for the 15K today. Service rep tells me about the $600 Nav update whereupon I explained I was originally told the 1st one was free. This had no effect. They still wanted $600, an offer I declined to accept and expressed my displeasure. This also had no effect. I guess my next move is to email the Lexus corp site and further express my displeasure. (This will, undoubtedly, have no effect)

I got the 2002 ES300 for the loaner. It is a nice car and rides pretty well. IMO, though, it is not (and should not be expected to be) up to the level of the LS430 ride. It has a higher noise level and a somewhat harsher ride, but then it costs about $30k less. The interior has been nicely done is attractive. Just my $.02.
(I'm still ticked about the nav though).

wwest · August 2002

Talk to the salesperson who told you the first update was a freebie.

That's what my 01 Rx salesman said too and I wouldn't be shy about asking him to live up to his word. That is if I considered a Lexus nav update worth the time of day.

flint350 · August 2002

Well, I do consider it worthwhile. I have found the nav very useful, if very occasionally flawed. But we've had this discussion before. More to the point, I dislike the policy change and what I perceive as price gouging. Even more annoying, I complained via email to Lexus customer svc. about these particular issues. The response I received was poorly written (though timely - only 4 hours from my msg being sent) and didn't really address my issues. I am copying it here:

"Thank you for contacting the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department regarding a Navigation System update for your 2001 LS 430. I apologize that you have dissatisfied with the price of the update. I have documented your concern at our national headquarters.

The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of the update disc is $499.00. As independently operated businesses, Lexus dealers may sell the update disc at a different price and will charge labor to install the disc. I apologize that an update must be purchased separately for each vehicle.

If you have any further concerns, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Pacific Time.

Sincerely,
Jeff Shimizu
Customer Satisfaction Representative

wwest · August 2002

It appears pretty universal that when folks bought a Lexus w/nav and the DVD was "old" the salesperson told the buyer that the next/first update would be free.

Is your salesperson still around and can you lean on him/her?

My voice can become very loud and angry in the showroom area on these issues and I tend to chose a time with lots of potential customers about.

stevestein · August 2002

I had the same situation, with a good ending. I went back to my salesman, and he arranged for a free upgrade.
I recommend going back to the sales department for resolution, rather than service or Lexus HQ. They are the only ones who know what they told customers, and they should be willing to stand behind it. Service and sales are often separate businesses within the dealership (in my case they are even in different locations), and don't have the best insight into each other's operations.

I believe that the word on the change in DVD upgrade policy wasn't gotten out to the sales force, and many dealerships were honestly conveying the wrong info. In fact, when I brought this up, they were still saying the 1st upgrade was free.

nealm1 · August 2002

re: creak: I got this when I first bought the car. The dealer took off the door panel and placed a layer of foam under the top side of the panel (bet. the panel and the door frame) and I have been creak-free for more than a year. Glad you are enjoying the car, and sorry you had so much trouble with the 7. That car is like a beautiful girlfriend who displays a few unbearable personality traits; she sings a seductive siren's song, but if your brain rules your, um, other parts, you eventually decide its not worth the trouble. Is that too harsh?

ls430ul · August 2002

How many revisions/releases of Navigation DVD's were there in 2001?

Was there a 2001 rev 2 ?

stevestein · August 2002

I believe there has only been the one update for the 2001 LS. It came out in late Spring.

nasdaqer · August 2002

Hi all -- just started looking at a Lexus LS 400 for my wife. We are expecting our first little one in December, and we have to cut down on car expenditures. Anyway, I came across a 1990 Lexus LS 400 for $6300. It has 155k on it, but looks pretty clean. Anything that you would look out for on this one? I'm sure that with a car with this many miles on it, something will go at some point. Any questions I should be sure to ask the owner? Would you put your wife and child in this car? We live in MN, and the winters can be brutal.

I hope to get 2 - 3 good years from this car.

Thanks much for your time everyone.

kabiz · August 2002

I am considering trading in my 1995 LS 400 (80,000 miles/Vgood condition) and was wondering if anyone knew the wholesale value or what to expect (ballpark range) from a dealer on trade-in.

rennybosch · August 2002

Kelley Blue Book is on the web: kbb.com.

oac3 · August 2002

Personally, I'd say that you should not go wrong purchasing an LS as it is a very fine vehicle. But at 155K miles, I am not so sure ! If your heart is in this car, pay the minimal cost to have the car inspected by a licensed mechanic for a full evaluation. That should hopefully help your decision making.

You'd get more help to your questions on the club lexus forum. Type this club in any search engine and it should get you into the site. Trying not to provide the link here in case it is against edmund's TH regulation.

Good luck with your car purchase.

wwest · August 2002

Many dealers will check the car's maintenance records if you ask nicely.

pat · August 2002

There is a great discussion over on our Smart Shopper board where you can get input from a couple of dealers. To get there, click on this link: Real-World Trade-In Values.

Good luck.

Pat
Sedans Host

pontoisele · August 2002

For Lexus Owner info: talked to Lexus Customer Satisfaction Dept.3 days after accident asked for an inspection.Lexus promised will do within 2 weeks.Insurance co.officially declared car total loss 3 weeks later and moved car from the towing site.5 weeks after the call, lexus Rep, in atlanta called and said can't find the car for the inspection.Provided phone info of insurance Co.rep. in charge of this case, same time w/ pictures.Wrote 3 pages letter including 3 pics then certified mailed it on 7-18-2002 to Lexus according to "Lexus Owner Manual Lemon Law Info".End of July ,received calls from Lexus said no problem found on air bags (of course ).Do not say why does'nt work. Asked copy of report and new location of the car.Answer negative.Asked for a written response.Will update when answer letter come.
If some one want see pics, please get to this site :
www.geocities.com/tle1042002/accidentpage.html
Ps: This Lexus ES 300-1997 bought w/14000 miles on 1-12-2000 as preowned from Hennessy Lexus in Atlanta, GA,and serviced by same dealer.

nofeer · August 2002

Heard/read that ls will get refreshed for o4, what do you think that means, and any insights. own a 01, lease up jan 04. not sure what to get but so many choices will change in 1.5 years. wouldn't mind if ls had awd. i wonder what they would upgrade or change. the car is near perfect.

stlouisslim · August 2002

See messages 3032 and 3034. Consensus says no significant changes for 2003. Look for minor revision in 2004 or 2005: 10-15 hp bump, more standard "options", engineering changes. Then a major change in or after the 2006 model year.

agent0986 · August 2002

what do you guys recommend on oil change?
i waited 5k miles for the first, but is that too many. esp if vehicle is driven hard? would 3k miles be better for the engine? thanks
and lexus does not use synthetic right(bmw)

trentpa · August 2002

I have a quick question on the auto seat adjustment feature. I love my LS 430 because I'm quite tall, and the seats go back far enough to give me a lot of leg room. When my wife drives the car, however, she moves the seat up considerably to a point where I literally cannot squeeze in. The problem I've found is that the auto seat memory buttons on the door only work if the engine's on, and so I basically have to turn the keys on and push the button before I can get into the car after my wife drives it. (Fortunately, this almost always happens when the car's in our garage and the keys are already in the ignition.) Any suggestions? (Having my wife remember to push the button for my setting before she gets out of the car simply isn't an option . . .)

jbianco12 · August 2002

The Lexus service department recommends oil changes every 5,000 miles. However, if you're driving in a lot of stop/go traffic, dusty/dirty roads or other "hard" environmental areas, then you might want to go to every 3,000 miles.
Here's a thought for you. Next time you have the oil changed, ask the service advisor to examine the discarded oil and see if he/she noticed any "greater than normal" breakdown in oil visccity. That might help guide you toward a 3,000 or 5,000 mile interval. Good luck!
PS...If you would, please post what you mean by "hard driving" and what the service advisor recommends to you. Others might have the same question. Thanks.

jbianco12 · August 2002

Here's a simple solution that might work (and prevent WWIII with the wife).
Before you get into the car, simply use the controls on the side of your seat to move the seat back...enough so that you can get in without having your nose pinned to the windshield. Then start the engine and press the button to get your preferred seat position.

blehrlich · August 2002

The seat memory buttons should work with the door open without the engine running (mine does). Just open the door and push your favorite button...this is also handy after a service appt.

flint350 · August 2002

They work fine w/o the engine - BUT - be careful of the mirror position. I have the same situation you do (I'm tall, wife is only 5'0). If she was driving and I hit the mem. button - the mirrors try to change first and they strain against the door frame before they rotate out. The only solution I've found is to turn off the auto-rotate feature of the mirrors so they stay folded out.

nofeer · August 2002

on my MB (non synthetic) the computer told me to get an oil change every 10-11k miles, my audi A6 quattro says every 10k miles (non synthetic) So i had lexus set my maintenaince indicator to 7500 miles (you can do that yourself and put a date if you wish) i also check level every so ofter.
Consumer reports says this every 3k miles with modern oils isn't necessary. MB and AUDI think so. So 7500 miles i feel is resonable and still within warranty specs (i checked manual and early reports said the same, do a search in this forum.

I like the idea of AWD sedan, maybe i'll go with the GS which will get it. hope it comes on the gs430!!!!

agent0986 · August 2002

thanks jbianco12 and nofeer for the oil responses

jbianco- oh by hard driving what i meant was, frequently revving the engine past 3000-4000 rpm
and occasional stop/go traffic. the service department recommended 5k intervals for me also but i just wanted to be sure because oil is vital for the engine, esp the way i drive the vehicle. its been 3500 and miles now and ill change at 4k and let u know what the service guy says. thanks for the advice

tdo123 · August 2002

I had my 5k check-up today on my new LS. I told them to double check the brakes because I am hearing a strange noise. They came back and told me it was nothing. I asked to see the tech, then I imitated the noise. He went back out, looked at the car and came back and said the wheel bearing was shot.

I think I read a little while back that others have had this problem. They fixed it in 30 min, but I was surprised to see this type of fix needed at only 5k.

Anyone have any thoughts on if this is typical or if a big pothole is to blame?

wwest · August 2002

is most likely caused by one set/side of brake pistons seized up, putting extreme side pressure on the wheel bearing each time you apply the brakes. Also have seen it caused by caliper "float" pin seized up.

But it also could be a simple manufacturing defect.

jbianco12 · August 2002

Is there a way to describe in words what the noise sounds like. Might be helpful to others to be aware of what to look for (or hear as the case may be). Thanks.

wgg1 · August 2002

I was warned by the Lexus service dept. not to use any of the quick oil change services such as Oil Express, Jiffy Lube, etc because the LS 430 is unique or difficult (? in some way) to do an oil/filter change. They told a story where the oil was not replaced properly and ruined the engine. The cost difference is about $75, not to mention the hassle. Any feedback will be appreciated.

wwest · August 2002

My 92 LS has not been back to Bellevue Lexus since the second oil change when that added in five qts (mobil 1 which I supplied) on top of what was already in the engine.

I discovered it the next morning and they offered to make it good. I couldn't tell if the filter had been changed out or not so I went ahead and did the complete job all over again myself.

There is likely NO dealer that uses expensive skilled, or even semi-skilled, labor to perform routine, repetitive, maintenance tasks, think McD "flipper" here.

Changing the filter on the early (all??) LS is a bit of a extra task as the bottom engine compartment cover must be removed.

tdo123 · August 2002

The wheel bearing sound was exactly like you would expect if your brake pads were really worn down and it was staring to rub. The deep, growl at slow speeds just before the car stops. Like if you played a tape recorder on extra slow.

Another friend told me he had the same repair on his 2001 LS.

aklein2 · August 2002

My family has leased or owned the ES 250 ('90), the ES 300 ('97 and '02), the GS 400 ('98), and the LS 400 ('92). We love 'em.

I'm considering an LS 430 this fall and would like to get the '03. Annoyingly,though, there will be virtually no changes in this car since the intro of the LS 430 in '01, it appears. (OK. Air conditioned seats will be standard. Blah, blah.) Of course, it's pretty good as it is. Nevertheless,I have the following concerns.

1. I do not like the normal suspension of the LS 430 -- too mushy and loose for me, as anyone who's driven the GS 400, as I have for a few years, might imagine I'd feel. The Eurotuned suspension solves that and is absolutely wonderful. But it appears that Lexus intends to drop that suspension option for '03. Really! Feelings of doom! They'll drive me away to BMW. I don't want to go there. Can anyone confirm that the Eurotuned suspension wil remain available for '03? Please!

2. A second disapointment is that the LS 430 does not come with the GS's maual shift mode. Why on earth not? As most will have realized, it takes the automatic transmission a notciable ampount of time to decide what gear to go to when you want to punch it to pass someone on a two-laner -- and the lag is disturbing. On the GS, you can move manual mode, downshift it, and take off like a rocket. Not, apparently in the LS. Why not offer this to LS owners?

3. Two petty remarks: no engine change at all three years in a row and unavailability of a fat steering wheel option without the slippery wood. Surely a few more horsepower and greater torque could have been squeezed out after two years of the identical engine. I wish they had done that. Now I'm flailing around, sure that they'll do it in a year or so -- and that, if I purchase the car, as I want to, I'll be "stuck" with what I could have had in '01! Grrrr! As to the wheel, I'm going to miss the great-gripping, fatter wheel on the GS.

You might say: well, stick with the GS. Well, the LS is simply better overall. It's a quandry. I really, really would like to hear from someone out there that the Eurotuned suspension will be there for '03. Can you help?

tdo123 · August 2002

AKLEIN2

I am a former GS ('98) owner and now a two time LS owner. I had the same concerns on performance at one time. All I can really offer is you will really get used to the LS power. It really is there. The difference is not that big once you learn how the car is going to perform.

The manual downshifting you mention on your GS is nice, but remember, they don't offer that any more on 400, just the 300. The engine could keep emissions when it went to the 430. I have the LS and I still downshift it and drive it like a stick, you just do it with the gear selecter and not your fingers on the wheel. It actually works very well.

Get the LS with 17 tires and enjoy a true luxury car.

feverhart · August 2002

I agree with wwest's sentiments on oil change issues. The bottom engine cover on the Ls 430 need not be partially removed as on the older models since Lexus elected to add a flap that can be drawn back after the removal of two screws to enable access to the oil filter. Attaching the end of the flap to the bumber via a bungie cord keeps it out of the way while changing the filter.

I use Moble 1 oil and either Moble 1 oil filter or Pure One oil filter, both superior and cheaper than the Lexus filter. 7500 mile interval changes worked well for me as evidenced by using this frequency with my 1990 LS400 which still got the same mpg at 130,000 niles as it got at 15,000 when mpg peaked. As to customer service advise on frequent oil cherges, remember that they have a vested interest in your returning frequently.

I recently installed K&N air filters as replacements on the LS430 and my wife's 98 LS400. These filters never need replacement (cleaning every 50k) and ingrease the hp and torque due to much greater air flow to the gas mixture. My wife and I seem to notice the increased performance.

brtmd · August 2002

2003 Eurotuned LS: I ordered a eurotuned LS back in June which is supposed arrive in September (it was because of the desire for the euro suspension that I had to order). At that time, the order was placed for a 2002, but according to the dealer the order has been bumped to a 2003 model. I asked if that would have any ramifications on the options I ordered and was told the car would be "exactly the same" except for the model year; so I am hopeful, but only time will tell. I agree with you that the lack of the sport suspension would be disappointing enough (for my tastes) for me to reconsider purchase options.

If you don't mind, where did you hear the sport suspension would be discontinued?

With regard to the engine, you've probably noticed the 430 engine has slightly higher hp/torque in the SC and GS than in the LS. Hmmm.

jsb16 · August 2002

Should be a good used car for your family. I have one and am getting ready to replace it with a LS430. $6300 seems high for 155K miles. I agree with the suggestion to try to get the VIN and kindly ask a local Lexus dealer to pull the service history. After a harrowing 360 degree spin out on a highway in light snow going 50 MPH, I started putting Bridgestone Blizzaks on every winter. I would strongly consider this in MN since you can get a set on steel wheels for $500 and your regular tires will last that much longer. Jeff

aklein2 · August 2002

TO: tdo123

I appreciate your advice your advice on the manual downshift. I was worried that it wouldn't work quite as well as the manual mode on my '98 GS. I'm delighted to hear that it will. I'll try it in another test drive. I remain concerned about the difference in power -- and note brtmd's comment about the higher hp/torque in the LS version of the engine. It is pretty annoying to know that they already have in hand a way to do it better, but won't make it available on the LS '01-03. That's why I'm sure that the next model year ('04) will bring a favorable change, one I just might have to wait for assuming that the eurotuned suspension remains available. (See below.)

TO: brtmd

Thanks for your remarks. I was giving these cars an initial check at Lexus of Rockville. My sales guy had prijnt outs from, I asume, Lexus concerning the models being built for '03 and similar data for the '02s. The '02 info showed the number of cars built with the eurotuned suspension and included it separately in the lst of builkds available. It was missing from the '03 info and my salesman said that he didn't think it would be available in the '03. He's told me he'll check further on this and, if I hear, I'll let you know (as I hope you will if your inquiries produce additional confirmation that it will be available in the '03). I told my sales guy, and mean it, that I flat out won't by the '03 without this. The regular suspension is a disappointment to me however much others find virtue in it.

aklein2 · August 2002

I ought to have used spell-check. Sorry!

airmatic · August 2002

I own a 2002 Benz S430, Lex RX300, and i am in the market to buy a new RX300(or RX330), and to replace my horrible S430. At first, my dealer offered me an excelent deal on the RX, and I was even more stunned when I heard about the LS430. He would sell me a new 2002 LS430 Ultra-lux millenium silver on black for about $62,000. My wife thinks that I am crazy, buying so many cars, but I want to own a car that can last many years. ANyone buy a new ultralux lower than 62 grand?

flint350 · August 2002

Been kind of slow around here lately. Makes me ALMOST miss when I used to do this:

anthonycecil · August 2002

Sounds like a good price. I think I paid around sixty eight last November Tony

rennybosch · August 2002

Wow! That is the neatest annoying graphic I have ever seen. Somebody must have done a lot of work on that, and/or used some very sophisticated program. Was it you? If so, congratulations!

flint350 · August 2002

Thanks, I think. It probably is annoying, but I was bored and thinking about the old days. I found it elsewhere and tweaked it for display in Photoshop. I'll probably delete it here so it doesn't annoy others. It's kind of small though and doesn't take broadband to download.

To stay ON TOPIC, I tried one last time today with my dealer on the nav update price issue. They are holding fast and saying anyone told earlier that the 1st one was free was unknowingly misinformed. Lexus' policy changed from free to pay when they switched to DVD in 2001 and the maker of the disks charged Lexus a lot more. That, anyway, is their story and they're sticking to it. Personally, I like the nav, but find $600 way too much for just some more detail in a few cities (even though they say my city is one they updated). There are no new "features", just more map detail.

rennybosch · August 2002

No, don't delete it. It's more fun than annoying.

ls430ul · August 2002

Can anyone comment on the difference between having a Euro-tuned sports suspension and having the AVS set to sports mode?

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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