Lexus LS 400/LS 430

ls430ul · August 2002

Is the $62K for the ultra luxury a cash deal with no trade? i.e., no strings attached.

Which leather upgrade is it?

nofeer · August 2002

why can't you get one at a toyota dealer, they are supposed to update your lexus info \

price--i paid 61k for a 01ls w/ link, nav, lev so if i could have gotten an UL at 62 i'd jump at it.

brtmd · August 2002

Good news to those in shopping mode. The 2003 model info just showed up on the Lexus website. Cursory glance shows very few changes--mainly just some new standard features like 17" wheels and some option repackaging. The climate control seats are now listed as part of the Levinson/Nav option, but it sounds like they require the perforated leather. I wonder what happens if you want the light gray leather (like me).

aklein2: I was particularly glad to see the Eurotuned suspension is still available (whew!). Engine rating unchanged.

Time to go back and check it out more thoroughly.

lenscap · August 2002

According to the press release, the price is going up 1%, to $54,925 (+$520).

In the release, the only changes appear to be that 17" wheels are now standard and 17" all-season tires are an option.

stlouisslim · August 2002

There's a world of mechanical difference. The AVS is four computer-controlled air bladders that control spring and damping. The sport mode is simply less spring and damping. Euro-tuned cars have a thicker sway bar, harder bushings, and beefier struts. They are also "tuned" (whatever that means)to give a firmer ride.

I believe its possible to get both Euro-tuned and AVS in the same car. My salesman says I have both. I certainly have the AVS. Does anybody know how to tell if I have the Euro package?

ljflx · August 2002

Plenty to do down in Myrtle Beach. Just got back. By the way I didn't see any center island cops on 95 in MD. Have they done away with that?

Maybe I have to get you interested in financial stuff. That will keep you going. I'm still shocked at the low valuation Wall St. gave Microsoft a few weeks ago. That was a fire sale you will probably never see again.

Old days - yes it was fun. Those boards have died out but will re-engage again at the next LS model update whenever it occurs. The LS intruder has made far too much headway and the 7 series is the worst looking thing I've seen since the Aztec. The Phaeton - well I know many well to do people and none of them even know the car is coming to market or would look at a VW and besides it has no "heritage" in this space. So Lexus will have to re-stir the pot again . But the problems at MB with the S seem to be increasing and the problems here are mainly very minor with very few and far in between significant ones. The body builds on both of my cars are phenomenal. I'm staying with Lexus at the next lease point and I do hope the car is updated somewhat for 2004.

sfmartin · August 2002

My '01 has small sport suspension emblems just behind the front wheel wells.

airmatic · August 2002

actually, after thinking it over, i have decided to give my daughter the old RX, the S430 to my wife, and i would have the new LS430. As for the RX300, after doing some research, i am going to wait for the new RX330 for about a year. So no, i am not going to trade in a car. But maybe because i have bought all my Lexus there, and i know the manager there.

bmms8 · August 2002

airmatic...what has a better ride between the s430 and the ls430, also what is quieter?

whotheman · August 2002

October Automobile Magazine reports the 2004 LS500, with a new 5.0L 360HP V8, will be available "next summer" as a "Sport" model, designed to overpower cars like the S500 and 745i!

whotheman · August 2002

the MT comparison last year, it appears the Lexus suspension can swallow any bump you have! And it is the benchmark for quietness, but since has been more or less matched by the 745i and Q45 there.

The Benz has the clear advantage in looks and handling, but is noticable slower than the Lexus.

whotheman

airmatic · August 2002

i really enjoyed the ride on the S-class simply because it felt sportier and more road-hugging, less prone to roll and fish-tailing. The LS430's standard suspension, i think, is targeted towards the comfort and luxurious area. Infact, its the ride (a bit bouncy, i think) that makes it kind of boring. I guess the LS430 w/ sport suspension would make the ride feel actually "more exciting", but i have friends that say it simply makes the cabin noise louder. I put my S430 with airmatic on the super sport mode, and i am fine with that.

As for cabin quietness, the LS430 definitely beats the S-class. THe LS is the quietest car i have ever been in. However, the S430 is of course quieter than a ML320.

For ride, S-class, for wind noise, LS430.

airmatic · August 2002

i forgot something also.
whotheman has it correct. the sexy styling and suspension is what diverts some wealthy potential LS430 ulra-luxury buyers. even my friends ( i drove it once) '98 LS400 seemed to accelerate and have much more power than the S430. On the LS, you could climb a hill on D, and still have plenty to go. Where as on the S, you really have to floor it, or go to 4. steering is also tighter on the S than on the LS400 (i think on the LS430 too)

pai7 · August 2002

Has anyone on this board dealt with Warrantybynet or WarrantyGold?Would like to know their experience during the claim process-The Good,The Bad and the ugly. Thanks.

pat · August 2002

pai7, you might want to take a look at the Finance, Warranty & Insurance Board. Someone reading this discussion may have some thoughts for you, but there is a ton of information over there, also.

If you use the keyword search on the left sidebar for those names, I believe you'll find a number of discussions about both of those companies.

sorry1 · August 2002

There is help out there for you!! Check the Better Business Bureau Auto Line web site or call them. Mine is a very long story but I am now driving a 2002 LS430. If you need any information, let me know.

maxhonda99 · August 2002

I got a quote today of about $5,500 off on a 2002 LS430 with Mark LEvinson & Navigation system. MSRP is approx. $61,500. Is that a good deal?

bmms8 · August 2002

you can easily buy it for over 6 off if you buy it from the dealers lot.

fsmeeks · August 2002

A totally built out LS 400 with 269,000 miles
will give me 5 year warranty or 100,000

8000

Is that a good price? Good deal or not ?
Looks great from the outside.

f_smeeks@hotmail.com if you want to respond.
Thanks, just looking for advice.

wwest · August 2002

I can't imagine anyone giving out a functional 100K mile warranty on a vehicle with 269K already, not even a Lexus, and certainly not for only $8000 w/the car thrown in to boot.

trentpa · September 2002

Several weeks ago, I posted concerning auto. seat adjustments (wife leaves '01 LS430 seat so that my knees are in my throat, and the auto seat adjustment didn't work unless the car was on). Several of you sympathized, but told me that the auto seat adjustments on the door do, in fact, work without the engine running. That afternoon, when I left work and returned to my car, I discovered that those buttons did work (and thought I was an idiot). However, this weekend, wifey drove the car, and when I went to get into it, the buttons did not work! After trial and error, I discovered the problem, which just amazes me. If the key is not in the ignition, the auto seat adjusters work without the engine running. If the key is in the ignition, the auto seat adjusters will NOT work unless the engine is running or unless the keys are removed. Unfortunately for me, when my wife drives the car, she leaves it in our garage and we keep the keys in the cars in the garage. Could anyone explain to me why having the keys in the ignition should make such a difference?

rennybosch · September 2002

Lexus must have some very stupid programmers. They should have outsourced the microprocessor programming to an American outfit, or maybe to one in India. There are so many examples of stupid firmware in the non-essential areas (i.e. not in the engine control or similarly essential areas, which seem to work well).

Other examples: What is controlled by the key in the ACC position vs. the RUN position. What remains enabled and for how long after the key is turned OFF. Etc.

By the way, don't the controls on the side of the seat work regardless of where the key is? You might be able at least to move the seat back so you can get in and turn the key on and then push the memory button.

brtmd · September 2002

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts/opinions on the integrated phone for the LS430. Such as: Does it work as well as advertised? Is it possible to use the integrated system with phones other than the Lexus model? Is service really limited to Sprint PCS?

I take delivery of a 2003 LS in the next week or so and was hoping to get a bit of real user insight prior to asking my salesperson. Any help is greatly appreciated.

paul29 · September 2002

You are not getting the full benefit of the retractable steering by leaving the key in ignition. Retracts only when the key is removed . Tell your wife to remove key and leave on dash . Actually insurance company can limit theft coverage if the key is left in car , also could be tempting if you have little visitors ie liability.

sidgriggs · September 2002

I refused to use the outdated sprint phone which Lexus offers, so I had a Motorola car kit wired in for my Motorola V-60 phone (AT&T service). I am not happy with the installation, because the install company was unable to put the sound through the car's radio speakers and was unable to use the factory antenna already on the car. The installer put an antenna on the inside of the rear window glass and a speaker under the dash on the passenger side with a mic in the headliner by the rear view mirror. I do like the fact that my phone has voice dialing, that it automatically answers and hangs up the call, and it was much, much cheaper than Lexus--I paid 150 for the motorola kit and 150 for the install.

chuck107 · September 2002

Question to brtmd: you say you will be taking delivery on your 2003 LS in a week or so. I also have a '03 LS (UL) on order since August 15th. Still no info on delivery except "probably sometime in October". I was wondering how long yours has been ordered.
Concerning the phone, I am not getting the Lexus phone as I am still kicking myself in the butt for spending $1500 on my current car's phone ("99 BMW 740i) It is so obsolete (analog) that I don't even use it anymore. Miss the intergrated features but don't think it is worth the expense especially when it could be outdated very quickly.

brtmd · September 2002

chuck107: I actually ordered a 2002 in mid June (yes, really June). It ended up being bumped to a 2003 as a result of the order date, so I have perhaps waited somewhat longer than usual. However, my salesman told me that special orders can take up to 90 to 120 days if there is not an appropriate vehicle already in the manufacture pipeline which can be re-directed to fill the order. I was told my car arrived in LA about a week or two ago, but would not arrive in TX until this week or the next. You may have better luck since 2003 production is probably in full swing by now (also since I believe they manufacture more of the ULs than the Eurotuned which I ordered). Good luck.

Phone: Hmmm. Sounds quite expensive (I haven't even checked cost yet). Also had not thought about possibility of becoming essentially obsolete. Any other opinions? Thanks.

tdo123 · September 2002

Has anyone noticed that when you set your "home" into the nav, it never really gives your true address. Even if I type in my house number it will still change it a few digits. Is this for security in case my car was stolen that a crook could have my address. He could just hit home and it would tell him how to get there.

Trentpa - Great feedback. I was noticing the same thing after I read your first post, and now you have figured it out.

Lastly, I didn't think a phone was available on the LS any more after 2001.

whybuy1 · September 2002

The NAV behavior you mention also works for the Marked Points destination type. You will find that you can register a marked point using an address and then find the address number changes at the end of the process. I have seen a case where the street changed, too, when the address was on a corner. I speculating, but there may be a map grid discreteness that limits accuracy. Your home may not be on Lexus' map grid.

brtmd · September 2002

I just got an opinion on the Lexus integrated phone from my salesman. He didn't hesitate; he simply said, "You don't want it." The main reason being that Sprint is not the greatest wireless provider for those of us in TX. He did mention Lexus is in the process of revising the phone system.

lenscap · September 2002

For what its worth, the LS 430 continues to outpace the S-Class and 7 Series in sales.

In August:

2,695 - LS 430
1,642 - 7 Series
1,486 - S-Class

2002 To-date:

17,741 - LS 430
14,479 - 7 Series
12,912 - S-Class

chuck107 · September 2002

I am taking delivery on a new "03 LS 430 soon and would like to have satellite radio. Is the 430 system adaptable for installation? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

mjgold · September 2002

My 3 hub cups with a gold plated "L" were stollen from my 1992 LS400. Does anyone has used ones to sell? Any advice besides bying new ones from a dealer will be appriciated. You can e mail me at mjgoldn@yahoo.com.

edwardt1 · September 2002

Alpine makes a tuner for XM that will play
through your fm tuner. I have four vehicles and
they all have XM radio. I have the alpine that
plays through the radio in one of my vehicles.
My wife got XM first and I was instantly hooked.

chuck107 · September 2002

edward1:Thanks for the info on Alpine. One of my concerns is where does the XM tuner sit? I am worried how it will look. Can you still see station info coming from the car's FM tuner? As you can see, I am quite confused on the whole XM system.

slexy · September 2002

Two things have bugged me since I got the car in 10/2000. I want to first say I wouldn't trade this car for any other for many reasons. But, I have given up trying to get the trani to downshift without the short hesitation, since it only bugs me when I am trying to pass a slow vehicle on a two lane road. My dealer says it is possible that Lexus would have to charge the "gas guzzler" tax if they did fix it (I was told there was a similar fix for the sporty IS 300), since it would increase fuel consumption? The second thing (a minor annoyance) has been worked on since I got the car. It was a mild squeaky noise coming from the rear suspension. The dealer put in a new shock absorber on one side after placing a stethoscope on various rear suspension parts and determining that that was the problem. Well that noise went away, but now I have a deeper sounding creaky noise coming again from rear suspension movements (I'm pretty sure). Has anyone been able to permanently fix these noises that are not loud at all, but bring out the "perfectionist Lexus owner" in me (my other car is a 1990 LS 400 that I have driven for about 135,000 miles). Thanks for any input you can give.

tdo123 · September 2002

I can't believe that you have become numb to hearing, "The Lexus Link System is active" everytime you turn the key. That, and the "agree" button on the NAV are my biggest gripes. I guess it could be a lot worse, I could have a car that was in the shop all the time.

stevestein · September 2002

I wonder if the cars do that is Japan as well, or is it just a reflection of the numbers of lawyers in the US. It comes back to the joke about having to stop making ladders because they ran out of surface area to place all the warning labels.

wwest · September 2002

You can put a stop to that by just opening the useless nav's DVD door.

flint350 · September 2002

Yeah, the agree button and Link Active are annoying, but you're right - they're lawyer induced. Since the car is smart enough to know about a passenger for a/c, they could also use that to enable all the nav functions while moving. It's annoying to have a passenger and STILL not be able for them to input a new address, etc. Again, I'm sure it's lawyer/safety based, but annoying nonetheless.

I'm often tempted to get a car elect. sys/radio technician (non-Lexus of course) to alter it. I would imagine it's nothing more than knowing which wires in the nav are routed through the gear shift knob or something similar.

ljflx · September 2002

Do other manufacturers also make you agree before it works? I concluded a long time ago that it is a "legal" thing - either by Lexus, the electronic supplier or both. The "I agree" means you could never sue Lexus or its supplier (Hitachi?) over any accidents which you might try to blame on the nav system. It's also why they won't make you adjust the route setting on the nav without pulling over to the side of the road. I think most companies will never get over the Mcdonald's hot coffee lawsuit so this cautionary approach is becoming the norm. Even Land O Lakes hot cocoa tells you to use only hot water, and not boiling water, on their cocoa packets. Amazing1

I don't mind the Lexus link announcement at all but it seems I'm the exception. This one has nothing to do with legal perceptions though. I can't remember if Teleaid or Onstar give you the same heads-up announcement or not. I don't think they do.

carfan4sure · September 2002

After 12 years and 167,000 miles in my still squeek-less LS400 (yes, it is a one owner), I've decided to buy an LS430. MBs seem overpriced and while I like the BMW's handling, realistically, the roads where I live wouldn't take advantage of 50% of what that car can do. And, because I keep cars a long time, I don't want to put up with the maintenance.
Problem is after 12 years I'm bored and need something different besides a different color of paint. I'm wary of being a kid who just wants all the gadgets;I wonder if I'll use the stuff after I've been in the car 30 days.
Ultra Lux is not the issue; I doubt I've sat in the back seat of my car more than twice in the last 12 years. There are new packages available this year that avoid the back seat investment.
Can someone out there give me their real world opinion of the desirability of the Navigation system (fun, but do you use it enough?), Mark Levinson (great, but can you tell that much difference), Front climate control seats (noticeably functional?), intuitive parking assist (useful?). The new option package for these is $5,730. Is it worth it?
I could get fancier leather, dynamic laser cruise control and a few other doo dads for another $3,265; the custom luxury package.

Any LS430 owners with opinions on the options?

bcleepe · September 2002

I have the 2002 LS430 for just a year. It is a customer luxury package. I love it, especially all the convenient gadgets. The ML sound is second to none. The Nav saved me a few times when I was lost in a strange place. The care free laser cruise provides extra safety to the travel. The sonar parking control allows me to park in tight spots without assistance from other people. There are so many features that are so useful that I haven't loose interest to explore from time to time. The CL package is highly recommended. No regret!

wwest · September 2002

If the LS430 bores you as much as it does me then do what I did, get a Porsche C4S, but without Nav.

rcf8000 · September 2002

My wife's SC430 has the nav system, which I assume is the same as on the LS430. To us, it is a bad joke. Maps are inaccurate, commands are frequently nonsensical, and routings non optimum. Also, operation is not at all intuitive. She long ago stopped even trying to use it. I have a LS430 without nav. Not only didn't I think I needed it, but air conditioning controls are much more user friendly on the models without the nav. One option that I wish I had considered is the sport suspension, or whatever it is called. I should have at least tried it out.

flint350 · September 2002

Well, for balance if nothing else, I disagree with wwest and rcf8000. Most of us on this board for a while are familiar with wwest's vast knowledge of the systems in the car, but his total dislike ("useless" is his favorite descriptor) of the nav. I heartily disagree. It can be flawed, but useless is a profound overstatement IMO. I use it quite often and benefit/enjoy it. A few flaws? Sure. What complex system or database doesn't have some. But they are outweighed by it's useFULness to me, at least.

I also disagree that it is inaccurate, not intuitive, non-optimum and frequently nonsensical (though I'm not sure what this last one refers to). I find it very intuitive for most functions, especially if one at least cursorily reads the manual. As for A/C being more user friendly without the nav, again I disagree. I have almost never found it necessary to use the nav interface for the A/C. All of the important functions are on the dash for a quick push of the button (auto and temp buttons do 95% of the work). Very little is required of this system via the nav screen, unless you want to manually change the vent distribution or manually control the rear A/C, which you don't even want.

Now, I'm no Lexus purist (don't even get me started on the "free" nav update that disappeared and/or the cell phone disaster), but I think the nav system and a/c interface is taking an unnecessarily harsh beating from a couple of folks who just plain don't like it for their own reasons. Reasons they are entitled to, but you should get varied opinions and try it for yourself before ruling it out.

ljflx · September 2002

I'm roght there with flint350 on this one. The nav system is very useful (when you're in unfamiliar areas, as a tool around local traffic jams and as entertainment) and I don't find that it even mildly interferes with the A/C function or the stereo controls. The a/c temp controls are in the same place with or without nav system. I have two LS 430's - one with nav/ml and one without. Everytime I drive the non-nav/ml car I wish I hadn't elected to pass on those options.

Carfan4sure - why don't you test drive the Euro sport LS430 before you buy? It gives you excellent handling with virtually the same great ride. The handling on that is well beyond what you are used to on any LS400. The base LS430 also has a tighter ride than the LS400 but somehow they also improved the ride.

wwest · September 2002

as you're sitting that at your PC, how often does your screen saver come up and BLANK your work?

Not very often you say?

You can control how quickly it returns?

Then why do you prefer to drive a car that BLANKS information that is of "quick glance" value in favor of a "screen saver" (moving map) which you don't want/need to be activated anyway?

Someone proposed that the "I agree" is a lawyer thing. Not possibly true.

No US legal department would advise a corporate entity that they could escape liability in the US just by getting a citizen to "agree" and then proceed to distract him or her anyway. The law doesn't work that way.

If the "I agree" were to mean, "if I subsequently activate and use the system I agree/acknowledge that I will not allow it to be so distractive...."

Key words "if I activate".

Think about it, put yourself in the jury box, considering that the owner/driver has not asked for the "distraction", would you absolve Lexus of liability in this case?

The otherwise useless and redundant requirement that I reach over and momentarily depress a control to bring the OAT back up, or the current temperature setpoint, puts them right back in the liability "saddle" IMMHO!

Which action, "momentarily depress a control" also inadvertantly changes a control function, shear idiocy in design!

Now I'm REALLY in distracted mode!

On the other hand for the few (I hope) people that are figuring out how to play DVDs, or how to activate the Nav while under way, I'd absolve Lexus totally and completely.

But even then I'd bet some jurors would find Lexus partially guilty becuase they provided the base "facility" to begin with, likely well knowing that some would abuse...

That's what makes the USELESS "I agree" requirement so insulting, at least to me.

flint350 · September 2002

Sorry, but I don't understand part of that, I disagree with much of it.

First, the law does, in fact, work that way. No one says the "I agree" absolves Lexus of total liability - but it is an important legal component of/in their defense. Certainly it is a "lawyer thing". There is no other reason for it. And yes, if I were sitting on that jury and had all the current facts, I would absolve Lexus.
Your reasoning implies any "distraction" in the car is the manufacturer's fault and the dummy who drove into the wall is blameless. Use of the nav is optional at the discretion of the owner. Lexus is offering it to those who want it and it is left out for those that don't. No one is forced to buy or use it or be distracted by it.

As for the "useless and redundant requirement" you speak of, I am at a loss. I don't know what system you are familiar with or are referring to, but the LS430 doesn't operate that way. The OAT and temp setpoints are always in view, even with the Nav display turned off. Unless I misunderstand your post, and there is some of it I find difficult to comprehend, your statement is either incorrect or about another vehicle that is not under discussion.

Also, while I am a believer in reducing distraction such as cell phones and playing DVD's, I see nothing wrong with allowing a passenger to make certain inputs to the nav system while underway. I was clear about a passenger doing it, not the driver, your implication notwithstanding. And "some jurors" would find guilt over almost anything - so while your comment is technically correct, I don't think it's truly relative.

Lastly, the word "useless" that I took issue with, was in regard to the "useless nav system" -not the "I agree" statement.

ljflx · September 2002

I'm not a lawyer but I deal with business law constantly - too often in fact. I don't agree with you but I'm also not 100% certain if "I agree" protects the manufacturer. But I'd take the bet that it does over a bet that it doesn't. I also think that since 99% of the American public - notably the jurors you talk about - drive cars without nav systems, they wouldn't have a lot of sympathy for someone who drives an expensive car that has one. Like Flint350 I'd also conclude that the nav was chosen as an option and then used as one. Choosing "I agree" is like reading the surgeon generals message on the cigarette box.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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