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Comments
What's the verdict here on this count? I once had a sports car that was very low riding and had 2 bad breaks while my old Volvo 240 never had any for 11 years.
And thanks for your comment on the rattles....
Paul
By the time 2004 rolls around though you will be dealing with an updated design, a 360hp engine and maybe even a v-12 option. So the car will be changing but I am sure they will keep the wonderful isolated ride. They'd better!
To me, the S500 (and the new 745i for that matter) seemed like a very nice car, but in the end it just came down to priorities, and I felt I would be more satisfied with the LS (somewhat of a leap for me since I have never owned a Lexus). Post 3261 from ljflx matches well with my thoughts that led me toward the LS and Eurotuned suspension.
Windshield rock chips: Probably more bad luck than anything else, although forward surface area and angle of windshield obviously matter. By the way, it repaired very well.
I was awfully glad to see that the eurotuned suspension would not be dropped after all, too. I meant to get back to you earlier about that, but have been so #$* busy over the last couple of weeks that I didn't manage to do that. Thanks for your confirm on that topic.
TO all: new question. I see that the Mercedes E500 will do 0-60 in 6.0. Isn't the LS 430 a bit slower than that (like by .02-.03)? This annoys me, especially when I'm giving up the GS 400 and its close to 5.6 in the '98 version to get something new. OK. The LS 430 is a big step up in luxury and comfort. But maybe the E500 is, too. (I plan to try one out today to see.) I'd appreciate comments comparing the E500 with the LS 430, including service and pricing experiences.
As for the E500, I would definitely consider it if you don't need the larger sedan. The primary reason I did not really consider the new E was size. Since I was replacing an SUV, I wanted a bigger sedan with more interior/trunk space.
What could I have been thinking of? It took me twelve years to consider straying from Lexus. It will be at least another twelve before I do that again.
While the E500 looks good, if a bit gaudy (too many surface changes as one sweeps along the car for my taste), on the outside, the interior is tiny and very confined compared to my GS 400 (to say nothing of the LS 430). The front seats are hard and pretty uncomfortable, though I'm sure devotees will claim that they provide more "support" than Lexus seats, something I doubt.
How does it drive? Well, quite well. The extra ride firmness options -- there are two -- seem superfluous in such a tight car. The E500 has a nice, tight "all of one piece" feel to it, and corners well at speed. Steering is tight, too, and accurate. The turning circle matches that of the LS, I think. The transmission operates very smoothly without noticeable shifts as one goes up the acceleration curve. A tap to the left of the shitfer is supposed to get the "right" gear at once at any speed. I could not learn to do this effectively, however, in my short drive -- though maybe it works better, like the rest of the complications in this vehicle, discussed below, with practice. The brakes are excellent. Benz claims that the car goes 0-60 in 6.2. (Lexus LS 430 tests reveal about that same pace, as I remember). The E500 felt slower than that to me.
On to the details, where the Devil resides. The tach is tiny -- too tiny to be of any use. The car's controls are many and baffling: hard to operate at best and oddly placed. The gizmos, of which there are many, are overly complicated (switching functions to one's steering wheel hub, for example). The Benz sales person who showed me the car flunked the "how does each of these things work" test. I sympathize: learning what they all do and how to do it looks like a formidable task. While the cabin is quiet, there's an annoying, heavy "thunk" from the rear when one pushes the button that flattens out the rear seat head rests -- essential if they have been raised by a passenger and the driver plans on using the rear window to see things. The rear seats themselves are not up to snuff for a car of this price: no one will enjoy being in them for even a short trip. They are hard, flat and have no leg room to speak of. What's with the huge new turn signal lights on the outside mirrors? Wonder how long until they get scratched up by collisions with things (something that has persuaded other makers to make sure that outside mirrors swing away from such forward collisions)? The drink holders are a joke: to use any (and, yes, there are two in front and in back) the driver has to deploy -- and I use the word advisedly because it's a kind of automated lifting up and out and then unfolding operation, necessary only in a car that regards cupholders as an after-thought and surely vulnerable to malfunction) -- the passenger cup holder first. Then the driver can bury his/her own drink deep in the tiny hole in the center console compartment from which the passenger holder emerged. This holder might be large enough for a Coke can, but that's pushing it. Then there's the CD player. You get a single disc player in the dashboard. If you want more, you have to get a six-CD player installed in the glove compartment. Sort of last century stuff. (And even this is a first for Benz, apparently.)The lights on the inside, all on the dome, are huge and intrusive, like something out of my refrigerator.
I could go on, but perhaps I've said enough to convey what the inside of this car is like.
Finally, trimmed to mimic what one can get on the LS 430 without the navigation system, the E500 tops out at about $63,000 (before the gas guzzler tax).
Bottom line: Benz will have to find other buyers for its new offering. I'm sure it will, but I doubt that many of them will have spent much time in either the GS or the LS sedans.
Now that you mentioned it, I really do not enjoy driving even 100 miles in the S, with the massaging seats. I think the seats might be comfortable for people with more cushioning, I am too lean for these seats. Using the S to race down the highway though, is quite satisfying, as not too many 2 ton+ luxury liners can be as agile.
Finally, I also post on the S class board, and I am not the only one complaining there.
The new E500 is a fine car, and I would imagine those who purchase the E500 will be quite satisfied. However, I would suggest you are making a good decision by choosing to not "stray" from Lexus if you have been a satisfied owner. Different strokes. . .
Don't want to buy an 03 and have it change next year or two.
Also, the msrp difference between 02 and 03 with custom package was about $2,000. A big jump with no feature change.
Dynamic Laser Cruise Control,
Intuitive Parking Assist,
Front climate-control seats with heat-and-cool knob and rear-seat heaters,
Headlamp washer, and
Power trunk and door closer?
I'd go for it, but you have to pay for the "fancier" leather.
You can also forget about major changes until the next LS redesign, which shouldn't come before model-year 2006. But do expect minor year-to-year updates, including an appearance alteration or two and a few new comfort and convenience gadgets. Though the LS already offers so many gizmos that it's hard to imagine what else could be added, you can bet Lexus will think up some new ones
FWIW, a friend of mine has an '03 LS430 UL on order due October and he told me he is itching so bad for it. And this guy is HUGE on German cars - own a '98 S500 and a '95 740iL Bimmer, and loves to drive real fast..... Now he is a Lexus convert.
If my lease expires on 9/28/2003, would I be ordering a 2003 or 2004 Ls430 then?
Thanks,
Paul
I don't know for sure, but to give you an idea, I ordered my vehicle in the middle of June 2002 (the order was written for a 2002 model year)and ended up with a 2003. However, it probably also depends on exactly what you order--i.e. whether there is already a vehicle in the order/manufacture "pipeline" to fill the bill. Mine was a Euro suspension, of which fewer are made, which may account for why my June '02 order ended up as a '03.
My guess is you could specifically order a 2004 model early enough and have it by the time your lease expires; my 2003 was delivered to the dealer on 9-10-02.
Flint350 - saw your color today with all around tinted glass. It looked great. All of these lux cars, the MB S especially, look best with tinted glass. I may go the tinted glass route next time.
Pardon the interruption, but the "The" in the title of this discussion needs to go away. It does not fit with the naming convention and is an issue for anyone who sorts the main discussion list alphabetically.
Who would think to look for a Lexus discussion under "T"?
So the "The" is no longer a part of the title of this discussion. "The Lexus LS" is now "Lexus LS" - cool, huh?
Thanks muchly to a member for making this eminently sensible suggestion.
Lexus dealers, on the other hand, can simply offer deep "discounts" from MSRP and still make a profit (of course, the dealer still has to pay operating expenses and commisions out of that "profit"). I don't recall ever seeing a Lexus add offer "cash back incentives" or the like.
They have all clearly stated that the policy due to limited availability is to hold to the msrp.
Anyone else finding this?
Maybe I need to look outside this area if big discounts are available.
Any advice?
Anyone else in an area that offers discounts?
A long way from Seattle, et610, but the discount is greater than the cost of a one-way ticket or trailer-ing it if you are so inclined.
As suggested by others, I think dealer discounting may be a reflection of local per/capita income, maybe even more so than competition from other Lexus dealers. At the same time, my Dad taught me never to negotiate for your best price wearing socks and a clean T-shirt...
And boy, do you not want to participate in the S-class discussion. Just today, a poor guy was blasted for not knowing something about a rear foglamp on a s-class. they are tough there!
I Am still considering strongly a 2003 custom luxury LS430 to replace S430.
Paulchiu - the residual percentages I noted are on 12k miles per annum leases
Flint350 - you're getting busy again. I sat in the rear of the LS430 once - in the showroom. Just wanted to make sure there was plenty of space back there. I'm a 6 footer and with the front seat as far back as possible I had plenty of leg room. I think the S has a bit more - it should at 7 inches longer - but I'd say that extra space works best when you are taking a child out of a car seat (not that this is hard nor are you pressed for room in the LS430) more so than stretching out. As for comfort/luxury I have always found the cushiony seats on the LS430 (front - where I live but I'm sure the back would be the same) ideally comfortable and the interior the best in this end of the luxury world. When you are behind the wheel it's a great place to be. The Designo package makes it closer for the S but that costs $9k or so.