Lexus LS 400/LS 430

bitkahuna · September 2003

Good info on the Toyota press web site. Thanks.

Some great stuff on the '04 LS including a sport package (woo hoo!).

motownusa · September 2003

If Lexus truly wants to compete with MB and BMW, it should offer an LS sedan with a V12 engine. LS 600 (6.0L) sounds like a logical name. It should have somewhere between 450 to 500 Hp. BTW, Toyota does make a V12 powered car for Japan only. It is called the Century.

rusty104 · September 2003

If MB & BMW want to truly compete with Lexus they should start by building cars of higher quality and listen to what the buyers want not what they want to build.

flint350 · September 2003

ljflx, maybed due to my frustration with local viewing of Mars conditions (rain/clouds almost every nite) I missed something here - but wouldn't the autoclosing doors prevent your light burn out problem. I thought that was one of the primary purposes of that system. Clouds suck.

rennybosch · September 2003

I read with great interest and anticipation that the 04 LS would have an optional SmartAccess system that "allows remote locking and unlocking of doors, open trunk and engine start, all without inserting a key." This sounded to me like I could press the remote button from inside an air-conditioned building and have my car start its engine and its air conditioner, so that by the time I walk out to it and open the door, it would already be nice and cool inside (I'm speaking from too-hot Southern California).

So I was very disappointed when I read further and found: "Engine Start: Once the key is detected, the vehicle can be started by simply turning the ignition switch. There is no need to insert the key." What a letdown. Does anybody know why no one makes a car with remote start? Is there not enough of a market for it (too few hot areas)? Or is it a safety thing? Or a legality thing? Or have they simply not yet thought of it?

Waiting for the '05 . . .

ljflx · September 2003

Hey buddy - great to hear from you. Mars has been a great sight at times here in NJ. I had a beautiful view of it over the ocean one night at the Jersey shore. But don't worry - we had plenty of those rainy nights here to.

You've been spoiled by the Ultra my friend. The door closers are standard on it and not available on the other LS models - at least in 2001 & 2002. It's also not just bulb burnout but killing the batttery would be the bigger problem.

Now just so that you don't miss out on anything - there was an excellent story on String theory in this past Tuesday's NY Times science section. If you missed it see if you can still access it on line.

oac3 · September 2003

If buying used, and everything being equal, low milers are always *better* than high milage cars ....

The LS is truly a fine vehicle to own, but can be pricey to fix/maintain especially with high mileage cars. It is a car afterall....

Good luck with your decision.

whathill · September 2003

Looking over the corn fields here in Indiana, Mars looks big and beautiful...
If the headlights are on and switched to automatic they will stay on until the trunk is closed - same as the doors.
Great car but black is a bear to keep clean. Wish they would make a pearl white.

b4z · September 2003

Thanks for the reply.
They are asking 16.9K or OBO for the '95 w/ 47K miles.
Would like to pay 14.9-15K for it.
The '95 probably has some maintenance issues due to age.
My main concern is the timing belt. It is almost 9 years old and is probably marginal.
I am leaning to the '95 purely because of mileage.
3-4 years fron now it will have under 100K miles.
By then the '99 will have 160K miles.

carguyay · September 2003

Whathill where in Indiana? I am waiting for an 04 in Black.I hope to see new 04 colors in and out soon.

oac3 · September 2003

IMHO, the '95 is a better choice. The $16,9 has OBO with it, so here is a pricing guide to aid your negotiation for your choice .... remember it's just a guide:

http://www.cars.com/advice/advice_carprices.jhtml?aff=national

The Black Book is a relatively *safe* guide than edmunds or KBB...

Good luck and let us know how it turned out...

lenscap · September 2003

For those interested in the 2004 I was at my dealer on Saturday and they had one in the showroom. It did not have a standard window sticker; instead it had a big Lexus sticker saying it was a 2004 preview model that could not be opened, driven or sold.

The car was silver with the 17" six-spoke wheels. I was hoping it would have the saddle interior so I could check that color out on the LS but it had a light interior (ecru I believe).

They also had small preview brochures showing the front, side, back and interior. Oddly enough the brochure does not mention many of the cool new features.

whathill · September 2003

I live in Chesterton (northwest IN) but I bought my black '01 ultra at Fort Wayne Lexus. Excellent dealership for service. They will pick my car up for service and deliver it even though I am 110 miles away. I can't say enough about the service I have received from them.
I seem to get more stone chips in the front than any car we've had and they really show on a black car. Beautiful when it's polished though.
Carguyay, are you from IN? What dealership are you dealing with?

ljflx · September 2003

So how did you like it and how do you rate it vs. the 2001-3 models. What did you think of the front re-design?

lenscap · September 2003

I've always been a big fan of the LS, and I like the 2004 a lot. The new styling touches make the car seem a bit more aggressive in person (without being overdone or tacky), especially the new headlight lenses and the way the tailpipes stick out of the rear bumper. I'm sure the 18" wheels would enhance the look even more.

That being said, the changes are very subtle. I would think most people would not even notice the changes unless they were very familiar with the 2003 or were looking at the 2003 and 2004 side by side.

Lexus seems to have successfully updated the car without making the 2003 look outdated.

rugeti · September 2003

I follow auto news and am a Lexus fan. Isn't the current LS fairly new? If memory serves me, doesn't Lexus also have a fairly long life cycle for its models? I've seen talk of the new LS, and it seems out of character for Lexus to be marketing a new version of such a young model.

b4z · September 2003

It is a little quicker cycle than before but not much.
'90 was first year. '93 got 16" wheels which made the car look 100% better.
'95 got a new body with increased rear seat legroom.
'98 was another body style change(but much less than the '95 changes) with new motor and 5 speed auto.
'90-98 cars were all variations on a theme.
'01 was a completely new body.
So the '04 changes are not any sooner than the '95 to '98 change.

anthonycecil · September 2003

The a/c was fixed today, second trip. Our salesman said they had just finished the best month the dealership has ever had Charleston s.c... Their inventory is almost out and the cars to be delivered are all sold.. They are doing a little too good. Tony

brickguy · September 2003

My tires need replacing on my 2000 LS400. It came with Dunlops. What would be the best tire for ride and noise? We live in Missouri so we have to deal with some snow as well.

syswei · September 2003

Saw this link on a clublexus board: http://www.nctd.com/review-final.cfm?ReviewID=1432

Personally, I'm still waiting for AWD. Guess I'm in for a long wait.

ljflx · September 2003

Thanks for that link. The car sounds spectacular. I wish you could get the sport suspension with the custom lux package. But it seems like that suspension has option limitations.

I'll bet they want to see how well AWD goes over on the next GS before they introduce it on the LS. Or perhaps AWD will be offered as an option in 2005 since the GS in that model year will incorporate it as standard or optional equipment. It doesn't strike me as a smart move to just offer it on one car. Let's see.

My lease is up in February and I'm torn between the sport suspension and the custom lux options. 18" wheels with tinted glass will make that car a knockout but unless the tinting comes from the factory I wouldn't want it.

carguyay · September 2003

I have been reading this site for almost a year. Lots of good sound advice for everyone, good stuff. I live in Schererville.I have always wondered about the South bend dealer but always thought Fort Wayne to far at 3 hours away. Six dealers 1 to 1 1/2 hrs in Chg metro area. My buddy is in So Cal with 5 or 6 dealers there. Also one in Columbus Ohio two blocks for my daughters. I have been to all of them in the last year.My accountant has a 93 400 with 125,000 my buddy has a 94 with 115,000 and other friend has 99 Ls with 50,000. This will be my first new high dollar sedan.I sometimes think I am a forum junkie. I dont type well but read a lot,ha.

carguyay · September 2003

Could you tell me where your dealer is?

ljflx · September 2003

How was your trip to DC?

jcast · September 2003

Have a new LS430. At 400 miles noticed a vibration and difficulty steering at parkway speeds. First fix, balance tires, align wheels. Same problem. Second fix, change to Michelin tires. Steering better, but vibration still there, especially noticable after driving about 10 - 20 miles at parkway speeds. Anyone else out there having this problem? If so, what was the resolution? Thanks.

lenscap · September 2003

The current LS is not fairly new. It was unveiled in January 2000 at the Detroit Auto Show and went on sale in the fall of 2000 as a 2001. It is now entering its fourth year.

Lexus does not have long model cycles. Typically their cars run for five years, with a cosmetic freshening in the fourth year. So, what Lexus is doing follows their history. Compare this to Mercedes and BMW, who usually keep model runs around 6-8 years. With Lexus there are exceptions, as the old SC and current GS have runs longer than five years. Also, the last LS ran an extra year because it wasn't quite ready yet after five years from what I heard.

As an LS recap:

LS 400 gen I - 1990, 1991, 1992
LS 400 gen I freshened - 1993, 1994
LS 400 gen II - 1995, 1996, 1997
LS 400 gen II freshened - 1998, 1999, 2000
LS 430 gen III - 2001, 2002, 2003
LS 430 gen III freshened - 2004

paulchiu · September 2003

We cancelled our driving trip when we read that it was going to rain Labor Day weekend. Turned out that the weather reports were partly right, as it rained after Monday. So still only about 600 miles on my LS.

An update on the door noise. I noticed that if I parked the car under the hot sun, I can drive it for a long while before I hear any noise. I can hear it easily in the early drive to Starbucks. So maybe temperature and humidity affects the plastics/materials within the door linings.

Music from the ML drowns the noise even at mid levels, but business radio doesn't. The ML soundstage is just so good. But you know that already.

Again, I won't attend to this until my first 1K service at Ray Catena.

At 600 miles, the LS seems to be accelerating even better, or maybe it's me getting used to it.

jcast · September 2003

My LS 430 also had this noise. It couldn't be duplicated by the service tech (at Catena) since he drove it when it was hot out. I identified it once the temperature dropped - it's the plastic window guard between the window and the door frame. For the price we paid for these cars you'd think we'd have better snap in pieces! All in all, Catena service great - now if we could only identify where the vibration is coming from.

paulchiu · September 2003

Car noise like what we experience is a problem with most high end cars, as I can now say with some authority. I had a Mercedes S500 for 3 years and I learned to live with these noise.

I also noticed iritating noise with the BMW 7 series and even in a Rolls.

The real problem is that the overall sound level in these expensive cars is so low that minor noise like ours are so easy to spot.

BUT everytime we drive that "loaner" home, doesn't our "noisy" car seem so much better when we pick it up again?

jbianco12 · September 2003

I was just reading one of the reviews of the 04 nav system and that it was updated from 750,000 destinations to several million. Does anyone know if the update is available for 02 models and how much? I heard past updates can cost upwards of $500-$800. Thanks.

paulchiu · September 2003

Car noise like what we experience is a problem with most high end cars, as I can now say with some authority. I had a Mercedes S500 for 3 years and I learned to live with these noise.

I also noticed iritating noise with the BMW 7 series and even in a Rolls.

The real problem is that the overall sound level in these expensive cars is so low that minor noise like ours are so easy to spot.

BUT everytime we drive that "loaner" home, doesn't our "noisy" car seem so much better when we pick it up again?

michael_mattox · September 2003

The Prior LS 430s cannot be upgraded to the 04 level at any price. (5 million destinations)

I have been told that the Hardware will not support the upgrade...

I would be interested to know if anyone else has heard something different. It never hurts to double check especially when it is a brand new item.

lenscap · September 2003

In an earlier post you thought it was doubtful you could get a 2004 with both sport package and custom luxury package. It looks like you can because all the photos ciculating have the 18" wheels of the sport package plus the small round sensors in the bumper of the parking assist from the custom lux. So it seems like you can get both, although I may be wrong.

splogue · September 2003

Well, if it is true that my less than one year old car can't use the new nav DVD, I am *not* going to be a happy camper. I really hope that isn't true.

The price on the DVD update started off at $500, but was reduced in the following year to $250. So, that's a good guess on how much this one will cost (if it works in the older 430s, that is).

Sean

ljflx · September 2003

I hope you are right. I'll find out at the end of the month and let the board know unless someone else posts it first. I'm starting my negotiation on an LX470 at that time and want to take the 2004 LS out for a spin as well. The new ones are due in on September 26th at my dealership. I hear that many are already presold though.

hage57 · September 2003

Looked at the new LS yesterday, and I was showned that we can not order both the cust lux and the sport package. We can, however, order the sport package and the modern lux package(a new package) and give up only the lazer cruise, power door closures and headlamp washers. Not a bad trade to get the euro suspension and the 18" wheels.

ljflx · September 2003

That's fine with me - I'll take that compromise. The 18" wheels are growing in importance to me and from the review posted by syswei it seems like they don't compromise the ride quality at all. Actually - I just went back and looked at that review and the car they tested was the sport with 18" wheels and the modern luxury package.

The new LS pictured at the Frankfurt show - see the high end board for a link - really looks nice. The more I look at the front end the more I see the true LS400 look in the headlight design. If you scroll down the cars on that link you'll see a Toyota hybrid sports car that - at a glance - looks like a modification of the original Vette. The next SC?

There is also a Ford model that looks quite interesting.

hage57 · September 2003

Although I didn't drive the 04 LS, I agree with your comments concerning ride quality. I did, however, drive the 04 XJ, and I am very tempted.

ljflx · September 2003

Go talk to DonnFenn on the high end board. He bought the supercharged XJ and loves it. But he came out of a Q45 not an LS. It's a bit of a stretch to go from an LS to a Jag XJ. I sought of think of the LS and S as one group and the 7, XJ, A8 and Q45 as a second group. Preference for sport goes to the latter group while preference for luxury goes to the first group. I'm at the luxury end so my preference will always be the LS or S and I think the LS is simply the best ride there is in a car. I have the 2001 and couldn't be more satisfied. It's a spectacular car. The 18" wheels and a sport suspension that doesn't or barely compromises ride quality simply adds some spice. In the 2001 year the sport suspension did'nt seem to compromise the ride at all so I'm assuming it will be the same with the 2004 and the review seemed to confirm this.

b4z · September 2003

Whre is the high end board located?

b4z · September 2003

Looked at a '97 Coach edition yesterday.
It appeared to be silver in the ad, but when I got there it was a light green color that was not real attractive.
The seat color was okay but the carpet was greenish.
Engine was silent at idle and the car drove really well.
There was some repaint work on the right rear fender and rear door. The leading edge of the trunk did not fit properly.
I will not be buying this car.
But here is the kicker, it had 146,000 miles on it!!!!!!!!
It still drove great.
Guy was asking 13.9K.

sidgriggs · September 2003

I have been warned of a possible conflict between a smart key and a bluetooth phone. If both are in your pocket you may not be able to use them at the same time--anyone have any experience with this? Both of these are available on the 04 LS430--and I want both, but only if they work!

ljflx · September 2003

You know these signals interfere with each other often. I have three computers and a laptop connected to the internet with a linskys wireless router and sometimes (but not always) the cordless phone interferes with them when in use. So I wonder if that is going to be a problem as cars advance with similar gadgets. The bluetooth is more important to me than the smartkey. It seems to eliminate the need for headphones for your cell phone.

b4z - The high end board is labelled "High End Luxury Marques" and is located within the sedans boards. Just scroll down or up depending on latest post.

michael_mattox · September 2003

That information about the Nav. was from my Dealer. I also hope he is wrong.

lenscap · September 2003

In today's Chicago Tribune there is a review of the 2004 LS 430. As expected it's a pretty complimentary article. One thing I did not know is that the 2004's Mercury Metallic paint option uses a completely separate second base coat and second clear coat. Also, it seems the car they tested had air conditioning vents in the roof pillars for rear-seat passengers. One last point: an owner does not need to check the transmission fluid (there's no dipstick) because the car uses a new super-slippery fluid specially adapted for cold weather. The LX 470 gets the new fluid also.

In the article, Mike Wells, VP of Marketing, says the next generation GS will go on sale in January 2005 (I heard spring 2004) and will in fact be the first Lexus to focus on a "distinctive new styling that has synergy with all other future Lexus models."

wwest · September 2003

More likely so you can't see the transmission fluid color and condition yourself and therefore must trust the dealer when they say change it out every 3750 miles.

lenscap · September 2003

According to the article, unless you find transmission fluid on your garage floor there's no need to check or add transmission fluid. That's why Lexus claims there's no dipstick.

wwest · September 2003

I've ALWAYS advocated checking it, just not changing it needlessly. Absent discoloration from over-heating due to abuse or towing, checking the fluid can give you fore-warning of an impending failure.

bitkahuna · September 2003

Like computers, hardware changes and sometimes upgrades are not possible. My 2000 nav is hard drive based and of course I can't use DVD's at all. I accept this, being in the IT line of work.

You WILL be able to get upgrades for your nav, giving updated maps, they just won't be same DVDs as for the new '04's.

syswei · September 2003

Someone on the clublexus board found this:
http://www.autochannel.com/F/news/2003/09/11/168528.html

No word on timing. My guess is that AWD and hybrid go together for the LS...i.e., maybe no gas-only AWD is planned. We'll see.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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