Lexus LS 400/LS 430

syswei · September 2003

Official Lexus Europe site has 2004 info: http://www.lexus-europe.com/boulevard/iaa/press_release.html

Also has a link to Lexus Hybrid site, not specific to the LS.

paulchiu · September 2003

A 2 inch thoroughly rusted bridge screw fell from the 59st bridge onto my 03' LS last night heading into Manhattan.

I heard an initial bang followed by a couple of minor ones. I thought the worst.

Luckily, my sunroof was closed and no one was injured.

Upon inspection, the screw landed on the roofline 1.5 inches from the left rear door pillar. I guess that is a strong part of the car, as there were no dents and only 3 holes made by the screw. The bridge was probably 30 to 50 feet overhead. I heard the screw rolling in the crevice where the back window and trunk meets. The screw must have hit the pillars, then bounce onto the back window and rolled down onto the crevice, and rested there.

There were yellow rust marks on the trunk door edge, but they rubbed off. Besides the 3 holes made on the roof, I see no other damage.

Thankfully, it didn't hit the rear window or windshield where my son was. My son told me that someone must have fallen onto the car from the #7 train.

The infrastructure in this great city is really falling apart.

carnaught · September 2003

A freak accident....glad no one was injured.

xerok00l · September 2003

Thanks for the heads-up, syswei!
That's one very well-designed site with many beautiful photos of the new LS430.
I'm at loss for words...

paulchiu · September 2003

The holes made by the rusted screw I mentioned here revealed just how thick the paint is on our LS. It compares to about the thickness of an American Express card. Maybe as much as 50 mils.

$2.199 for premium this morning in NYC, as I inspected the "holes".

On a happier note, the annual premium on my 2003 LS430 insurance is only 66% of my 2001 S500. The strange thing is that my next 6 months is $400 lower than when I bought the car just 2 months ago. Maybe due to the 2004 rollouts. Nice!

ljflx · September 2003

Glad you are OK. I'm paying 1.779 (93 octane) for that cheap Jersey gas but it is as high as 1.959 in some spots.

I think I'm going to take a sport suspension with that modern luxury package when my lease ends in January provided that suspension doesn't compromise the great ride.

paulchiu · September 2003

The 2004 looks even hotter! You will love it; I am sure. The slightly more angular look makes the LS more modern, and is nearly one inch longer.

Frankly, I notice nothing different with the different tires when I shopped. I do have that minor door noise when I ride on cobblestones and other rough NYC city roads, this might be worse with stiffy sport tires. If your area has fewer rough roads, this is not a problem.

In my long drives in and out of Jersey, the noise is hard to find. Impossible once the ML is pumping out the tunes.

balderdash · September 2003

I've been hearing for years that New York city inrastructure is falling apart, and especially the Queensboro Bridge! I'm not surprised that part of it fell on you. And it can only get worse unless someone does something about it.

balderdash · September 2003

I noticed the recent discussions of door noise. My LS430 is over two years old now. From the beginning I had this annoying itchy-urchy sound from the driver door. I went back to the dealer 6 times for the problem. They struggled with it, along with a factory rep, and finally got it minimized to the point where now I just ignore it. It is greatly diminished after their work, but it's still there. Say La Vee. I guess.

paulchiu · September 2003

If I chose the upper roadway; which I normally do, the screw might have landed on another car. I think I over analyzed this already. The 5 small holes; now filled with Mercedes silver touch up, shows character!

The door noise was there again this morning on route to Starbucks.

I poked at the leather coverings while driving, and know the other side of the material is the source of the noise. There must be layers of air bags inside.

Ted, did you watch the service folks take the door panel off or ask about whether deactivation of the side air bags was necessary in steps to eliminate the door noise?

Getting rid of the door noise is great but is very minor if that causes the side door bags to malfunction !!

flint350 · September 2003

I contacted Lexus regarding the posted statement about older models being incompatible with the 5 million POI upgrade. I was assured that this is NOT correct. There are apparently two versions of upgrade. There is one DVD for those of us with prior year cars, like my 2001 Ultra. It does contain and support the 5 million POI database. It will not add any hardware upgrades though to make it like the 2003/4 models in features. That is where the confusion apparently resides. I ordered mine.

michael_mattox · September 2003

Great news...How much will the upgrade cost?

jbianco12 · September 2003

Thanks for the data on the update to 5 million locations. Did you order from the dealer or direct from Lexus? Also, how much? I want to make sure I don't get ripped off. Thank you!!!

erad98 · September 2003

flint350:

I too am interested in more information regarding the updated DVD. Unfortunately my salesman at the dealership was of little help. What did you mean by " it will not add any hardware upgrades to make it like the 2003/4 models in features"? I have a late 2003 and I assumed that the '04 navigation systems had been changed from the '03's. Look forward to learning more about this needed upgrade!

erad98 · September 2003

I just spoke with customer service at Lexus corporate headquarters. They tell me that the upgrade from the '02 to '04 data base includes more POI but not more streets. They indicated the upgrade costs $250 MSRP. Although they have issued upgrades annually, they will apparently increase the frequency to every 6 months starting in 2004. Since I have a late '03, they recommended I wait for the middle of '04 to upgrade in order to obtain the latest streets. Hope this helps!

ljflx · September 2003

Make sure you stay off that bridge when this storm hits. If it did that to you in fair weather I'd hate to see what it will do with 50+mph winds. I haven't driven over that thing in 10 years. But I'm always on the GW and Verazano.

bluestar1 · September 2003

Just by mere coincidence, I was at my dealership today enquiring about this point as well. My dealership - Carlsbad Lexus, has the DVD-based Nav update at $345 (incl. tax). For the hard-drive based (I own a '99), the cost is $280 (incl tax). Since the most up-to-date version, i.e., Sept '03, is not available until the '04 price list for the LS is released (Sept 24-ish), I am waiting for that version and have pre-ordered mine.

paulchiu · September 2003

Thanks for the warning! I drove to Starbucks this morning and it was somewhat windy here; but you wouldn't know it inside the car.

You guys try to keep dry now, and take care.

flint350 · September 2003

Well, erad98 has answered his own question, for the rest - I ordered the update for my 2001 at a cost of $288 (up from the old $250), though my local dealer was still asking about twice that the last time I checked (couple months ago). My understanding is the new update contains the added POI's and the previous incremental street/city additions from previous updates. Possibly there are no new street updates in this version itself, but it should contain the updates included since my original 2001. Therefore, it made sense for me to order it. Those waiting for 2004's may well be better off waiting another 6 months and get some street additions.

As for the question on my features comment, I was simply referring to the fact that the DVD does NOT upgrade any features in a 2001 system to 2003/2004 levels - in other words, if those newer models have new "buttons" on the screen for new nav. abilities, the DVD can not upgrade my system to do the same. Only the database is upgraded for us.

jbianco12 · September 2003

Thanks to all for the advise. This has been real helpful. I think I'll wait until mid 04 to get the street updates as well.

tturedraider · September 2003

Forgive me, I just have to crow a little. I noticed a couple of comments on gas prices in the northeast a few days ago. I live in Fort Worth, Texas. Just the other day I paid $1.619 for premium unleaded with 93 octane. It's good to be a Texan! ;-)

tdo123 · September 2003

I know we have had lots of discussions of tire types, but has anyone looked at the Goodyear 225/55ZR17 97 W? It seems like a high performance and also a luxury ride.

bitkahuna · September 2003

Less here in GA (about 1.55 for 93 premium)

carnaught · September 2003

seen any 2004's on the road yet. BTW, best price for premium here is $2.29.

bluestar1 · September 2003

it is $2.19 for 91 octane (premium) here in San Diego, CA. We don't get any break in energy price gouging ! I am sure it's lots cheaper in NJ, for example.

tturedraider · September 2003

(...pun intended) Wow! I'm impressed. I remember hearing a radio host in Atlanta once talk about gas prices that were significantly lower than ours. How do ya'll do that?! We've got all the "oooul" (aka, oil)! Sounds like a vast right wing conspiracy to me. ;-)

btw - to be at least partially on topic - I was gassing (is that a word?) up my GS300. :-)

bitkahuna · September 2003

bluestar1, ttureraider, it's not about gouging or some special deal by the gas/oil companies, it's all about taxes. In CA in particular you get reamed.

JBaumgart · September 2003

Taxes and special formulations that your state government requires - it's your politicians that are doing the gouging.

erad98 · September 2003

I saw in the '04 specifications that mud flaps are now included. My salesman was unaware of any flaps for my recently acquired late '03. Anyone know if the '04 flaps would work or earlier models?

sv7887 · September 2003

Hi All,
In MA it's still 1.89 Gal for 93 Octane..

Some sad news...I was taking my 1992 LS 400 for it's weekly Saturday drive(Use the LS 430 for weekday stuff) and some fool blew a Red Light and slammed right into the Left Front Side..Oddly enough, I only heard a faint thump and the car did not move.

The young girl then proceeded to blame me (Although her light was Red and mine was green)..
Upon inspection the Left Front Wheel was completely bent in and the quarter panel was dented.

However, the paint only sported a few minor scratches..(I use Autoglym polishes, Great stuff). The Policeman refused to believe the car was 11 yrs old, as it looks showroom new. I'll get it towed to the Lexus Dealer on Monday..I bet I'll be fighting with the Insurance Company over the Aftermarket vs OEM parts issue. To heck with it, I'll just pay the difference.

However, if the car is written off, I'm wondering how easy it would be to get another 92-94 LS. Call me a sentimental fool, but I really like the car.

Your comments would be appreciated,
SV

tturedraider · September 2003

Hi. From the damage you described, I'll bet your car has enough value left that they won't declare it a total loss. If they try to, and you don't want them to, stand your ground and point out the fact that's in exceptional condition. You might call around and ask some dealers what they would ask for a car in as good condition as yours. This is what I did in similar circumstances and I was successful in getting them to pay to have the car repaired. The only other time I had to deal with this issue (my car was SMASHED from behind while parked at the curb and totaled) I did the same thing and got the insurance company to pay me $2,000 more than they originally said they would.

I'm not sure about this, but I'm guessing the market for aftermarket body parts for Lexi might not be too big. I say that thinking that not many Lexus owners would be willing to use aftermarket body parts.

Knowing how people in general take care (or don't) of their cars, I'll bet it will be pretty difficult to find a '92-'94 that will come close to being in as good condition as yours.

Hope everything goes smoothly for you and works out well.

gee35coupe · September 2003

1994 Anniv Edition. I've driven it 8000 miles in 2.5 years only on trips. No paintwork at all. 123,000 miles. Looks like a brand new car. I love that car.

sv7887 · September 2003

Tturedraider,
Thank you for your advice and info. It is greatly appreciated. The car has only 85K Miles on it. In fact I just got it back from the 90K service that cost $1,500.

It doesn't look too bad body wise. Quarter panel is bent in and the bumper is bent slightly. They should be able to straighten it out. The Wheel however is a different story. The whole assembly is bent in. (Tilted inside towards the wheelwell) The Lexus mechanic who works on this car is going to have a jolly time putting the pieces back together. I've already told Lexus not to put any aftermarket parts in it. I've never put aftermarket parts in this car, and don't plan on it.

Insurance companies ought to make the driver at fault liable for this sort of thing. Why should we be shortchanged because of what someone DID to OUR cars?! It's incomprehensible that insurance companies refuse to pay for Original parts on these sort of cars.

Gee35Coupe,
Take good care of that car!! It sounds like it's in lovely condition. Lexus sure doesn't make cars like that anymore. My LS430 lacks the flair of the old less perfect model.

Happy Motoring,
SV

carnaught · September 2003

Out of curiousity was the driver who hit you sited? Those red light runners are always a dangerous group.

b4z · September 2003

What was in the 90K service that cost $1500?
I thought the timing belt was $6-800, and belts and things were on top of that.
Didn't think it would be over 1K.

sv7887 · September 2003

Hi All,
Unfortunately, there were no witnesses so by the time the Policeman arrived, there was no evidence. I smell a nasty insurance fight. I love it when people do something wrong and try to blame the other party for it...

The 90K service involved the replacement of the Timing Belt, Water Bulb and half a dozen other fluids. The Labor Rate was $93.50/hr The Base Lexus 90K (W/out Timing Belt) is something like $700 dollars in MA. The Timing and Water Pump practically double that price. It is money well spent. When I got the car back it ran like the day I bought it. It was whisper quiet and drove like a dream.

SV

tturedraider · September 2003

I stopped by my local Lexi dealer last night. They have two '04's on the showroom floor and one on the lot. Saw something interesting (at least to me). The one on the lot has a window sticker that reads (not verbatim), "THIS VEHICLE IS NOT FOR SALE. This vehicle is for display purposes ONLY. Pricing for this vehicle will be announced on September 24. At that time the Monroney sticker will be applied and the vehicle will be offered for sale. Until that time this vehicle is not available for test drives." This was printed on the label that would normally be a Lexus window sticker. Since it is illegal for dealers to have cars for sale on their lots without Monroney stickers, I guess until Lexus officially announces prices they can't even let you test drive it.

It is gorgeous. It is amazing to me how just a little design tweaking can yield such good results. The front fascia is more aggressive looking. The fog/driving lights are a little lower and more narrow and rectangular. And the headlights are projectors now. The headlight housing is more steeply raked back on the fenders with a sharper point at the upper edge. The rear fascia has narrower (lengthwise) tail lights and therefore a wider space in between. They've raised the height of the trim piece above the license plate area and made the Lexus "L" larger. And of course, the straight, chrome-tipped exhaust. Those are the main styling changes I could discern.

Oh yeah, new wheels. Much better looking.

scottphillip · September 2003

In July I had an accident in my 2004 RX 330. Both parties claimed they each had the green light. There were no witnesses. Nobody was issued a citation. My insurance company paid for my damages.

I had my car repaired--$5,000. The paint (Flint Mica) doesn't match. The shop is going to re-paint it and I will probably trade it (with a big loss) on another Lexus.

The adjusters thought that since the other car was farther into the intersection, that it was more likely to have been my fault. I hit the car near its front passenger wheel. It had to be towed away.

Accidents Stink!

ljflx · September 2003

I picked up a brochure today at Ray Catena Lexus. Unfortunately they didn't have a car on the lot which surprised me given they are such a large volume dealer. Apparently some of the cars seen so far are making their way from dealer to dealer in advance of the Sept. 24 debut. The car pictured in the brochure is definitely bolder and some of the new colors play that up. Mercury metallic is the new silver and it is a bit darker and deeper than the milennium silver. The blue onyx (car looks great in that color) is a holdover as is the black cherry which looks darker at least on paper. Some new dark colors (at least to me perhaps they were available in 2003)are Cypress Pearl (similar to the riverrock green on the LX and TLC in the past), Flint Mica (a deep and dark grey - perhaps named after Flint 350) and Briarward Pearl (a rich dark taupe color). They are all good looking colors and I think the car will look great in the Flint Mica color. The mystic gold is also a holdover but I never liked this cashmere replacement color. White and black, of course, remain and a Moonlight Pearl replaces the Parchment color and looks to be a big improvement over it. Inside the Ecru color (the real light color) is now only available on the custom and ultra lux models with the perforated leather as is a saddle interior. Black is available in standard and perforated leather and ash and cashmere are available in the standard leather.

The sport package with the euro suspension is available with the modern luxury package and with the premium package (the latter lacks the ML or nav and will only be available as a custom order from what I've been told.) My dealer tells me Lexus will be shipping a lot of Euros outfitted with the modern luxury package in the early going. Apparently research tells them that it and the custom lux package will be hot.

I'm surpised they don't offer the sport package (euro suspension) on the custom lux car since that car doesn't have the air suspension. Sometimes I can never understand Lexus' logic. Lastly all cars come pre-wired for XM satellite radio and the Lexus link message (for those who hate it) remains unchanged.

Overall this car looks great and the new wheels are a big improvement.

Oh yeah my whole purpose of going was to take out a 2004 LX470 which they gave me to take home for part of the day. This truck is better than ever and the back-up camera is fabulous. The larger wheels they put on this truck in 2003 improve, rather than hinder, the silky smooth ride. My old one rode like an LS400 but the new one has more of an LS 430 ride. I'm taking one in December.

lenscap · September 2003

I also picked up a 2004 brochure and the photos seem inconsistent with the option packages. I don't have the brochure in front of me, but the photo of the Flint Mica car has the 18" wheels, meaning it has the sport package. Yet that car also has the headlight washers and saddle interior, which supposedly are not offered with the sport package. If I remember correctly another sport package car photo had the new-style key (with the black marks on the door handles), which again is not offered with the sport. Maybe some of these options can be ordered as individual items in conjunction with the sport package.

By the way, the 2004 in the showroom was Mercury with a black interior. When I pointed out the new Antique Wood to the salesman he said it was unchanged from last year. I told him it was new but he didn't believe me (I didn't look at the brochure until I got home, otherwise I would have pointed this out to him).

ikey78 · September 2003

Good observations re the 2004 brochure by lenscap. Also, the cars in the brochure with headlight washers i.e ultra or custom lux have no Laser Cruise windows which should be clearly visible below the front bumper on the right.

I believe that these are pictures of European cars. Check out http://www.lexus-europe.com and you will see that Laser Cruise is not an option on those cars. From what I can see they come with 18 inch 5 spoke wheels standard over there which explains some of the other pictures in the brochure.

Either they did not have a US custom or ultra available for the brochure photo shoot or they are deliberately trying to show as many pictures as possible with the 18 inch wheels because they look better.

ljflx · September 2003

I just received an e-mail from Lexus, as I am sure others on the board will/have as well, about the 2004 LS430. It states that the 18" wheels are available as an option. It does not state that with the proviso that you can only get them with the sport package. When I brought the LX back today (I love that truck) my salesman said that he was almost certain that Lexus had decided to make 18" wheels optionable on all the option packages and in fact most of the cars you will see arriving will have 18" wheels. The cars will debut on Wednesday so let's see. If anyone on the board is shopping the car in the next week or two please post about this.

Now the strange thing about this e-mail is it gives you a bold headline about the 2004 LS and invites you to build one. Click on that link and it brings you right to the source except that it is the 2003 that you are building. Stranger all the more since my dealer sold out his last 2003 weeks ago. Go figure.

ljflx · September 2003

The brochure is actually loaded with pictures taken at US wineries and other spots that Lexus gives credit to.

ikey78 · September 2003

I agree that many of the pictures are credited as having been taken in the California wine country. A lot of those pictures do not have any cars in them but I guess set the mood.

It is possible that they were using pre production prototypes or European versions in at least some of the pictures. Bottom line is that as stated previously, some the cars pictured do not seem to match with the options described in the brochure.

wwest · September 2003

should have been taken in the yakima valley where the best wines are "made".

ljflx · September 2003

Though my salesman tells me there is no change in Lexus link in 2004 the brochure paints a much more confusing picture. Many, but not all, of the cars pictured have the antenna required by Lexus link. But the safety and luxury equipment (both standard and available) make no mention of it. Is it possible that lexus link is a goner? Then why the antenna or maybe it does double duty to pick-up satellite radio. On the other hand maybe I just missed Lexus link in the brochure. Maybe the cars without the antenna are the european pictures. The LX470 brochure also makes no mention of Lexus link unless I missed it there as well and the LX I drove yesterday didn't have the message. But then neither do the loaner cars I get even though the newer ones I got the last two times in had the link antenna.

Does anyone know what is going on? Is it history or has Lexus put it in the vehicles and forgotten about it?

syswei · September 2003

Lexus has a customer info center at the corporate level, and is worth a try for info like that. For instance in the past they were able to tell me the Class rating of the LX tow hitch. Not that sure of the number but try 800-usa-lexus and if that isn't it they can at least direct you.

ljflx · September 2003

It's not that urgent for me as I am 3 months away from taking the LX and 4-5 for the 2004 LS. But it is included in GX470 option packages at Lexus.com. Maybe it is part of Bluetooth or maybe Bluetooth blew it away.

sv7887 · September 2003

Hi All,
I got that email as well from Lexus. Something of note: Do you all think the '04 is just a filler for the 2006 LS? I've seen some pictures (Autofiend.com) that supposedly portray the '06 LS. It would seem that LS is going to sport a completely different look.

Essentially, I don't as though I should be rushing to trade my '02 LS for an '04. The changes appear to be minimal with the exception of the 6 speed Transmission.

Scottphillip,
The young girl who hit my 92 LS definitely ran that red light. Everyone else at the intersection had already stopped. (My light, of course was green) Undoubtably she'll deny this to avoid fault. However, the physical evidence is in my favor. (She hit the Left Front wheel completely bending it into the car)

I asked Lexus of Watertown what needed to be replaced. Their response, "Everything attached to the wheel." They estimate the damage to be $2,000+ most of that being parts.

I was surprised at how quickly they got the parts. Whatever they didn't have was overnighted from Lexus in NY. (Do they have some Part stores there?

The quality of the Paintjob really depends on the shop. The body shop here, which is employed by the Lexus dealers, does a great job. You really have to nitpick at them, but they usually get it right.

Happy Motoring,
SV

ljflx · September 2003

It's the typical refresh Lexus does when it thinks the new model is aging. I think they are making it obvious that they will lean a bit more towards a bolder sportier look and feel but at the same time maintain a reasonably high degree of conservatism. The next generation will be interesting and I think it will be along the lines of the HPX prototype they had at the NY auto show. That is also what the next generation GS is set to follow whenever it is expected to debut. Lenscap noted a pub that said that is now in 2006 vs 2005 as everyone had expected. So maybe the LS is put back to 2007. They also will redo the LX in either 2006 or 2007. Based on the dating of the current body styles the pecking order should be GS, LX and LS. I'm not at all sure when the IS is to be done again and at some point they will bring out that HPX possibly in conjunction with the next GS.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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