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Comments
And, all this fuss about the LS exterior; I think it grows on you....and who cares anyway. Enjoy your ride!!
re: GS430...my impression that it was a rocketship with superb handling...since you have the LS already, I would buy this one for sure. I need more room than the GS has, but what great fun to drive.
I won't go back to S-Class board anymore...mostly a bunch of snobs who realize they made a mistake, but can't stand to hear anymore about the many virtues of the LS430...can you believe someone who just purchased an $80m+ MBZ car has a dash that makes porpcorn crackling sounds...? Seriously, the older MBZ were great vehicles, but the new ones just leave so much to be desired.
My only experience with Japanese luxury cars was a Q45 10 years ago...it was OK but nothing special. I do some pretty serious homework on cars, and I am going to buy an LS430. I specifically want silver with charcoal interior(I've had too many black cars)...NAV, Lev, but no UL. I have asked dealers to take me out of a lease that has about $3000 in payments left (June Exp). I will then pay MSRP, so I know I'm asking for a $3000 discount. Since my firm has bought a few vehicles from Lexus and can buy many more, I want them to do something for me.
Bottomline, I would like to make the deal tomorrow, if I can find a good experienced Lexus salesman who knows the value of making the right kind of sale... I am a real advocate for the LS430 and will send them more buyers.
Anyway, I've gone on too long....thanks for all your insight and info...it's of great value to me and the LS board.
Bill
I, too, was reading the MB-S board, and find it interesting to see all the complaints, yet steadfast loyalty. I have been reading both for some time in hopes of making an informed decision between the S and LS (obviously, I chose LS) and find it curious that they don't exactly welcome non-MB thought over there and, in fact, suggest all of us non-believers go elsewhere. I guess they want to be alone to enjoy the various clicks, pops and rattles of their cars while proclaiming "name" is everything. I only intended to take part in a "discussion", not expecting to be chased for not playing to the party line.
Is the Ultra Lux otption available with any other than the bordeaux maplewood or the ecru?
What discounts is everypone getting now?
I was only able to negotiate $1,500 last November; I think I can do better now.
I'd like to meet the owners of the chauffer-driven LS's...obviously smart people.
MSRP $61,230...has NAV-ML pkg, 17 Wheels, Link
3% sales and lux taxes incl. and no money down
36 mos @ $1169 ....59% residual
39 " @ $1137 ....57% "
48 " @ $1050 ....52% "
money factor was .0038 which equates to anout 9.12%
I know I've seen better on this board and would like readers to share what's being quoted and by whom....include what area of the country you reside in too. I'm in North Carolina.
Thanks
This is my first time responding, but I'm a long time reader (4 months) from the side lines. I just want to thank everyone for their information; wisdom and experiences on the Lexus products and for helping me make up my mind. I was loosing sleep over which car to buy or lease the 740il or the LS430. I was making my wife nuts! Even Motor Trend "Fall Edition" had these two cars tied at the end of their testing.
Ljflx,
Your right, our local NJ banks do have better rates then the big ones in NY, but the numbers Lexus had given me are not bad as of 11/00. Now that bank rates are going down I will start looking as of Monday. Also I'm sorry to say that Bankers Trust ended 6/1/99. We are now Deutsche Bank. Please tell your neighbor I said hello. I'm in the IT area of DB - 4WTC.
I currently have (on an extended lease) a 97 Mitsubishi Diamante LS, but after a long 4-month wait (special order) I'm happy to say my LS430 will be in at the end of February. Millennium Silver, Ecru, ML, Sports Pkg. No nav, no link and no discount! Full MSRP at time of order, but I'm going to call around regarding discounts. I will keep you posted.
Warnock Lexus in Livingston NJ is my dealer. Good people!
Happy driving!!
Still can't get my local dealer off MSRP...must be a conspiracy that starts in Tokyo.
I'll post the rates.
I deal with Ray Catena - also great people - and they deal with Hann bank (small local bank I think that is near you - but they'll only take lease if they are affiliated with dealer). Check with Warnock about them.
Don't waste a second of sleep - you could'nt have made a better car decision. The levinson radio sounds like a symphony hall. Why did you not want The Lexus link though? It's a great safety feature and saves some insurance money.
wbwynn - Lexus financial is doing deals at 8.2% annual money factor and they are great to deal with. I believe all their programs are national so that should be your worst case. I think I'm going to take that midnight pine.
My dealer told me it can't be disabled, just like the "I agree" button before you can use the Nav system. But to me that's entirely different, for two reasons. First, pushing the "I agree" button isn't nearly as disruptive, and second, I can see they might have some legal liability if they haven't displayed the Nav system warning to an inexperienced driver who then gets into an accident. But loudly telling me the Lexus Link is active just seems undesirable unnecessary, and inappropriate.
That's my biggest complaint about the LS 430. I guess this would be quite minor if I had an MB S430. . .
As for the Lexus Link, rennybosch stated it best. How do you turn that think off! My salesman told me you couldn't. I travel a fair amount on business and I rent Hertz cars with Nav systems and they also have voice links. The nav systems are handy, but they are also very distracting when driving and that voice gets to me after a few days. I would hate to start loathing my LS as I've done to some very nice rental cars.
So, when I ordered the LS I noticed the link was an option and not a mandatory Lexus standard you must have. I didn't know about the insurance savings, but I did save $ 1,200 on the link plus $ 350 per year to keep it operational after your first free year. For now, I will us my cell phone.
PS. if Lexus only offered true high speed Internet capability on the LS??? Now that's an option!!!
PSS. Man, if you don't check what you write on this board it can turn things into hieroglyphics!!!
I'm trying to come up with a cash offer. What's the general "rule of thumb" for the percent the dealer needs over invoice for luxury cars?
Please post the link to the other discussion site.
Did you talk with my salesman? What did he say?
Sea Opalescent, was looking at it at the dealer, when here pulls up the midnight pine version. Very different... looks riches, more elegant. I must admit that when I first saw it, it did look black. Obviously the sunlight casts a different look to it. Also, the lighter interior leather and the ecru birds eye maple (taka that ugly grey wood) looks great.
I opted for the dealer applied perm-coat (can't remember the name). Figured the extra protection was worth the cost, not to mention not waxing the car. Don't know yet if I made the right choice. Anybody out there have an opinion on this one?
Wbwynn - how are you doing on those leases?
Tv1db1 - hope you didn't break your back in that wet snow.
I've been reading post on both the GS/LS boards for a few months and have found it very difficult to choose. Let me first start off by stating both cars have a good reputation and appear to be a good choice. I have found very valuable information but there are some areas of concern.
1. Both cars seem to have some problems with snow (GS seems to have more). Will snow tires realy sovle the problem?
2. I've read that the LS may/will go up in price later this year but the GS is due for a new model in 2003.
3. The GS has better styling and a sportier look. However, the LS is so much more refined.
Here is my dilemma: I had planed to buy my vehicle between 10/01 - 2/02 but with the GS possibly changing it's style I would be left with an outdated look. I live in Virginia where I can expect a reasonable amount of snow and it might be better to have the LS? I'm only 34 and wonder if I get LS were do I go from there? The LS seems to be the ultimate luxery car and it seems like I would be left with nowhere else to go...
If anyone can provide pros/cons to both cars i would like to hear them.
Thanks...
36 months I assume...payment $1040?
I just want to confirm what Lexus Financial can do on the ($61,230 equipped model) since no one's moving much off MSRP. I'm real close to buying and going to take another test drive tomorrow. My sales tax rate is 3%, so if I can get the lease around a $1000, I'm done.
Thanks for your help.
Bill
The more I look at the LS430 the more I appreciate its design. This is a very elegant car that rides like a dream and handles very well. The latter is not quite as good as MB but I prefer the great ride which you always experience to the handling edge MB gives you which you need maybe 1% of the time. I also love to drive this car so stories of its' blandness and lack of road feel don't go over for me.
Flint 350 - gorgeous! Drive it well. I love the pine and silver as well as my purchases attest to.
I agree on the comfort over handling of the MB; the latter is only a thrill 1% of the time as you said. I prefer the quiet and isolation with great music....must be getting older like fine wine.
I'll stay in touch and let you know what happens.
Thanks
Also, previous Lexus lease clients get a slightly better deal too...Ljflx, you must be one. I am told that Lexus will not waive sec dep for new clients...period.
Anyway, I drove the LS430 again this afternoon and really like the car more than ever....just can't seem to get the deal I want.
Looks like you'll have to pay that Chase amount unless you can get a good local bank or leasing company. It's hard to move to another car if you can swing this one. The new Q doesn't do anything for me in the looks department and MB is seriously overpriced and not as good a car. BMW's are in the shop too often and ride hard.
Go for it - wbwynn.
This calculation can be performed on an HP12C.
- 36 months
- $1041/mo (+ 6%sales tax?? = $1103.46/mo)
- 8.25% financing cost (quoted to me by a local Lexus dealer)
- $37,845 residual value + 6% tax = $40,115.70
- $495 Leasing fee
The numbers calculate a $66,926 drive off price which would include sales & luxury tax but does not include license fees or any other miscellaneous fees.
This lease would not be financially advantageous as compared to an outright purchase unless the residual value being used is very optimistic and/or the buyer does not want to hassle selling the vehicle at some point in the future. This lease is for the one who loves ease and is willing to pay a few thousand dollars for it!
Another argument pro lease is the deductiblity of a lease payment for those who have the ability to write-off their vehicle. An option for those purchasing is to finance using the equity in their home, called an Equity Line of Credit. This results in any buyer having the capability to deduct the bulk of the payment and potentially (dependent on the interest rate) having a net (after-tax)cost of money lower than the dealer offers.
In my case I ran the numbers as an all in lease of $66.7k assuming I buy at end vs. $65.4k for up front purchase. This includes sales & luxury tax but excludes doc. fees in both cases. Close enough call for me to lease in any event and the tax deductibility kills off any thought of buying. Yes you could depreciate the asset but that is a royal pain.
The other thing to consider is improvements in the car. Had I bought my 98 LS400 I would definitely want the new LS430 now and would have to deal with trade-ins etc. Somehow you always feel cheated when you trade in a car.
One last thing - the lower the interest rates, the more unfavorable the lease. Banks love low rates as they improve their margins. They will only drop lending rates so low but of course have no problems lowering the interest paid to us. Maybe its time to buy some Chase stock.
We did just the reverse - bought a '95 LS400 a few years ago and just leased a new RX300 in December.
I highly recommend late model LS400s because, in general, they're a reliable, great ride. And, even though they require premium gas, they get excellent mileage for a large sedan, about 18-20 around town and 23-25 on So.CA freeways. That's the good news...
The bad news, as with any luxury vehicle, is when things go wrong, they can get expensive quick. And whether or not you use the dealer's service department, the parts cost alone can hurt. Bad.
And, since you're buying a used vehicle, you probably won't know the maintenance and/or repair history. You can try checking it out with a Lexus dealer since they keep excellent records - if the vehicle was serviced at dealerships.
To circumvent all the potential misery, you might want to do with I did - buy a Lexus-certified LS. You will pay a few bucks more than buying from a private party, but I would highly suggest the extra investment. I ended-up having most of the suspension parts replaced and quite a bit of brake work done under the extended warranty within 90 days of taking delivery. Apparently, some "non-Elite" Lexus dealerships do a sunshine inspection in putting the Lexus Certified sticker on the vehicle, happy to get the extra bucks and letting the service departments take the heat down the road. Hey, at least they detailed it...!
Understand that you can't get a certified LS if its more than (I think) 3-4 model years back of new (your local dealer will know or you could find it on the Lexus.com website).
The extended warranty is good for 3 years from the date you take delivery or a total of 100,000 miles on the odometer - whichever happens first.
Good luck.
Nav/Lev/Chrome wheels $1275 with $5,000 down 20,000 miles a year, 36 months.
Ultra Luxury $1475 with $5,000 down 20,000 miles a year, 36 months.
I laughed at the guy LOL. Thats rediculous. (Lexus Financial)
I'd have to go back and find the repair documentation for the exact items but, if memory serves, it was replacement of front control arms, just about all suspension bushings, front struts, etc. On the brakes, the discs and rotor assemblies were so far gone that they could not be turned or adjusted so they were replaced.
The obvious problems when driving: a very "twitchy" feel to the steering and constant need for corrections to keep a straight line (totally unlike the steering feel now!); lots of clunks and thunks when going over small bumps; and a major thud type sound when hitting the brakes going slow in reverse out of a driveway. On the bad brake discs & rotor assemblies, lots of vibration when moderately applying the brakes on the down slope of a hill.
Hope this helps. By the way, other known (but relatively infrequent) problems on the mid 90's LS include "bleeding" LCD dash displays, hood struts, and A/C compressors.
Thank your for the information. Indeed I have
a bit of a "twitchy" feel you describe but
was told this was due to lower quality tires
my car came with. I planned to replace tires
anyway and will see if the symptom persists.
By the way which tires would be better: Bridgestone Revo or Michelin MXV4? Or something else...?
Wbwynn - what are you doing these days?
I swapped the Goodyear GA OEM rubber for a set of Michelin Engergy MXV4 Plus about three months ago.
I'm far from a professional driver, but I could not believe what a great improvement in handling it made. The ride instantly became more smooth and easier to control - I actually thought my dealer had overinflated the Michelins by 10# or more because of how easy the steering became compared to pre-Michelin.
As for the Revo or other Michelin rubber, just be careful not to buy a set of ultra-performance rubber - the LS400 is not a sports car and you don't want to get too firm a ride from stiff sidewalls and ultra-gummy traction. Nor is there any reason to pay $600+ and then have them wear out at 20K miles.