Lexus LS 400/LS 430

ljflx · November 2003

You can't look at it that way. The gas tax in Europe which is the cause of the high cost is a function of many other trade-offs within the Euro sytem. For example medical (also much worse than here) and post retirement pensions (far, far superior to the US) are part of that same system, Thus you have to look at the whole set of government items including land and home tax, vat/sales tax, ordinary income tax etc. In the end this stuff all equals out or comes close - in aggregate - on both continents but individual components like the price of taxes in gas are far different. Heck - I pay 30 cents less for gas in NJ than I would in if I filled up in NY simply because of the difference in state taxes. For what its worth I completely agree with bitkahuna but I will look for price differences in the same octane level and go for the cheapest. It's a throwback to my early driving days when money was a lot scarcer.

carguyay · November 2003

We picked up our Black/Black modern sport with the chrome 18' and smart key. Wonderful car. My first Lexus I know they are only cars but I just can't get over the felling when driving it. Speaking of $1.50-1.70 for gas. I its a crazy place we live when we will pay $5-6 dollars gallon for bottled water that's free. Then be upset about the price of a gallon of gas. This from a new happy lexus owner.Happy hoildays to all.

wwest · November 2003

And just how many tires with low/no pressure have you, wife, daughter, son, driven to destruction?

At $80 - $200/tire the monitors, while clearly not a necessity, can save you money and one hell of a lot of frustration.

bitkahuna · November 2003

> "In the big scheme of things this is insane, I know, but I hate wasting money on gasoline."

You'll hate even more the $2000 bill for the engine you're slowly destroying. But let me guess, you'll sell it before that happens so someone else will have to pick up the headache. (The reason I never buy used cars!)

b4z · November 2003

I have one on my Impala and it has saved me 4-5 times from being stuck on a highway.
It goes off when the pressure drops 12 lbs below what it was reset at.
i usually get notice at around 20lbs which allows me to get to a gas staion in time.
It does not work aobe 70 mph though.

ljflx · November 2003

My dealer had only one LS430 in stock (actually it was the demo and somebody bid on it while I was there) but it was in flint mica with ash interior. The car is stunning in that color and my wife loved it. I'd like to see the cypress pearl but it is hard to visualize any color (or any car for that matter) looking better than the flint mica LS. The tweaks in the car have really increased its elegance - imo - particularly in darker colors. It is striking.

I took it out for a long ride and am just amazed at how great the car is. The 0-60 improvement is noticable and the ride (this was a base suspension) is tighter and incredibly quiet. But the ride is smoother, more refined if you can believe it, and just plain better than ever even though it is tighter with more road feel. I had driven my neighbors Euro earlier this month and it outhandles the base suspension and it also rides spectacularly. But the base suspension car is the most graceful car I've ever been in. I returned to the dealer and missed Bon Jovi (who created a ruckus by showing up) by about 5 minutes as he was in to buy an LX470 for his wife. But the LS ride was still worth it. As much as I love my 2001 I can't wait to get the 2004. Now the question for me is to Euro or not to Euro. The base car handling is more than sufficient. I will need to drive them back-to-back to decide.

Hage57 - You can get the custom lux with the Euro but only if your dealer is willing to press Lexus in Japan on it. It's a custom order and most dealers will not want to bother - particularly right now - as sales are hot. I was told that the 18" wheels can be combined with the base car and the Euro suspension but not with the Ultra lux. I think I will go custom lux or go the modern lux/euro route rather than go to the ultra lux. I want the 18" tires. I also don't think I'm going to hold my breath for the custom order. I just didn't get a comfy feel about it. I was told they are going to start building the LS in the states in a few years and then you will get whatever combos you want.

Lastly - The GS was pushed back a year because the initial design was vetoed by Lexus. i believe the reason - besides them not being enthralled with it - was due to the new look they want to have across the board. Also it is 90/10 likely that they will build the HPX in 2005.

tdo123 · November 2003

Just some feedback on the tires I just put on my 2002 LS. I went with the 17' Michelin Pilot sport A/S. It is like having a whole new car all over again. They perform 10x what the Turanza's did for me. I could not be happier with the tires. Much more quiet and smother ride and in turns it is night and day different.

I might just keep the car another year now until the fast one is released.

agent0986 · November 2003

hey, I also just updated the tires on my 2001 LS430 about 2 months back with the Michelin Pilot sport A/S 17's. I totally agree, these are mostdefinately the best possible tire you can put on this vehicle. I originalyl had the dunlop sport 17's which were terrible tires and lasted only 20,000 miles. The LS should come standard with these. I know the MB s class uses the michelin pilots also. Just everything, ride, handling, smoothness, quietness has been improved and you are totally right, car feels better than it was right off the lot. just one question for you though, i dont know whether you drive agressively or not, but off the line do yours squeal a little bit? when you apply full power, this is the only negative, my dunlops never squealed. But, during a sharp turn though, absolutely no squealing which the dunlops did quite frequently. Def recommend this tire!

tdo123 · November 2003

You know, it is funny you should mention the squealing. My Turanza's would sound like a strangled cat everytime I would take a really tight turn. These are just perfect with no noise. I have not noticed much off the line yet, with the exception that when I hit it, the VSC no longer has to step in because the Turanza's wanted to spin. How well the tires aided in the turns was amazing to me. I used to think that the 745 could corner a bit better than the Lexus when I would drive my brothers, but now, I think it was just the tires.

marsha7 · November 2003

I wish everyone would stop with the gasoline and bottled water comparison...even if you follow the "8-8 ounce glasses daily" routine (and most don't) that's 64 oz daily or 1/2 gallon...for 7 days, that's 3-1/2 gallons...but I drive 500-600 miles weekly, at 25 mpg, about 20-plus gallons per week, and for cars/SUVs that have lower mpg, they might use 30 gallons or more...the comparison has no value whatsoever, as we use more fuel than the water we drink...and since most folks barely drink 2-3 eight ounce glasses daily (water, not gasoline...:):)), the comparison becomes even more worthless...

zdude · November 2003

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article- _id=7359&page_number=1

Pretty cool article.

rgsw · November 2003

While I felt much like daryll40 regarding the new Lexus Tire Pressure Monitor, I'm still glad I have it. My first experience was low tire about 10 psi low. I reinflated the tire and wrote it off to improper inflation by the dealer at 1000 mile inspection. Next day the alarm went off again and about 5 pounds low on the same tire. Checked the tread and found a nail causing the slow leak. However; I have had a few "false alarms" recently and have reset the indicator by pushing the "reset" button under the dash (to the right of the sterring wheel column). I also have the valve caps (Wal-Mart)that indicate four pounds low (yellow) and more loss (red) indicator. These will allow me to find the low tire without checking all tires.

meagvg · November 2003

I'm trying to understand the availability of PSC. Brochure states early '04 on ultra and custom luxury packages. Called Lexus US last week and was told same. Also because it is a "safety related" feature, PCS will eventually be across the entire option line.

One dealer has said recently released info (as of today) now limits PCS to be on cars with variable air suspension (ultra lux). Another dealer says PCS will still be on ultra and custom.

Does anyone know what's going on? Thanks for any info.

agent0986 · November 2003

someone definately must of mentioned this before, but what exactly is the function of the power button? does it really even make any difference, cause if so its very hard to notice. Also, will fuel octane really make any difference to performance? or is that more of an oil thign? one last question, does turning of the air conditioning increase performance, as ive heard it does. one last question, I've been driving this car very agressively for the past 28,000 miles and the engine seems to have gotten more powerful and responds quicker to my pedal pressure. I dont know if thats possible, but it seems like it, anyone else who pushes their LS notice this?

meagvg · November 2003

I'm trying to understand the availability of PSC. Brochure states early '04 on ultra and custom luxury packages. Called Lexus US last week and was told same. Also because it is a "safety related" feature, PCS will eventually be across the entire option line.

One dealer has said recently released info (as of today) now limits PCS to be on cars with variable air suspension (ultra lux). Another dealer says PCS will still be on ultra and custom.

Does anyone know what's going on? Thanks for any info.

wwest · November 2003

I think that basically in "power" mode the tranny will try to stay within the engine's power band more. If you always go WOT anyway you won't notice much difference.

jsb16 · November 2003

Can someone explain to me what this bluetooth connection with the Nav is supposed to accomplish? Will it automatically mute the stereo when the phone rings or allow voice command hands free dialing?

niceputt · November 2003

Great question re link with NAV. Another one...does it make any difference what brand cell phone one uses with the Lesux Bluetooth system so long as it has Bluetooth capability?

sidgriggs · November 2003

Yes, the nav system does mute the radio when you receive a phone call and the screen indicates the caller's name if it is in your phonebook.
Voice dialing is not available and while you are driving, only the preset one-touch numbers can be dialed through the nav system. I am using a Nokia 6310i and downloaded my phonebook numbers one at a time, so I only put in the frequently dialed numbers and set-up all the one-touch. I have found that this is not a problem, because you can always dial direct from your phonebook in the phone itself--even if speeding down the freeway--and the call still come thru the nav system the same as if it were one of the one-touch calls. Another great feature is when you are talking on your handset, you get into the car, start the car and then the nav (bluetooth system) takes over the call--you just put your phone back in your pocket and carry-on your conversation while driving.

niceputt · November 2003

Thanks for the very informative reply. So, confirm you don't have to 'activate' Bluetooth on your cell phone every time you get in your car?

antiosama · November 2003

I recently got a little crack, actually a round crack in the middle of the windshield, I thought it would be best to just replace it. Anyway, I called the Lexus dealer as well as a auto glass place, the Lexus dealer gave a quote of $800 for the windshield + installation, and the glass shop said $275 installed. Anybody have their windshield replaced? Can anybody point what could be the difference between these 2 windshields? Is the factory front windshield on a 2000 LS400 laminated glass and could the windshield from the glass shop just be tempered glass?

wbwynn · November 2003

wwest is correct; it changes the shift points and it uses more fuel in the process.

scottphillip · November 2003

Does your insurance cover the repair? Here in Florida, by law, your auto insurance covers the replacement and the deductible doesn't apply.

wbwynn · November 2003

ljflx: Have you considered buying your 2001 LS at the end of the lease? Does it really make sense to buy your leased car?

I am torn between a new GX, a new LS, or buying my 2001 LS. I can't quite get comfortable with the GX yet and know that either LS is a good choice...just a 28k differential for the new model.

Are the GX problems going to be fixed and does the new LS offer enough improvement over the 2001? I see that you are also interested on both of these. By the way, I am not going to lease again but rather do a cash purchase.

Anyone else want to chime in on the lease buyout issue, please do. Thanks

wwest · November 2003

The aftermarket installer will typically charge you only about another $100 to install an actual Toyota windshield. The Lexus quote is the usual ripoff.

Just had the one replaced in my RX but went ahead with the aftermarket glass.

vcheng · November 2003

....windshields have the titanium dioxide coating, as the OEM windshields have?

bitkahuna · November 2003

Never going to be as good as OEM. Also, if an after market place or the Lexus dealer screws it up, who do you think you have more leverage with?

Plus, if it's covered by insurance, go with the Lexus one... no brainer.

If not, STILL go with the Lexus one. You get what you pay for. Unlike wwest, I don't believe it's a ripoff.

That's like saying the LS is a 'ripoff' because it costs more than a Buick Park Avenue, or whatever.

sidgriggs · November 2003

To answer your question. No, I do not have a bluetooth connection until I turn on the car. (I always have my phone with Bluthtooth set to ON) At that point I get a message on the nav screen that say's "bluetooth connection successful".
This morning my connection was not successful!! I finally figured out that it was because I had the phone and the smart key in the same pocket. I turned off both the car and the phone--turned the phone back on, put it into the console, started the car and "successful".

oac3 · November 2003

But, ah, there IS a difference b/w the Park Avenue and the LS, that you can see - build quality, NVH, ergonomics, luxury appointments, electronics, etc...

Can you *see* any difference b/w an AM windshield and one installed by the dealer ? Having never had to replace one before, my guess is that the difference (if any) is not noticeable, but the price certainly is !

b4z · November 2003

The Lexus that I bought on ebay has a cracked windshield and the owner told me he was quoted $250 to replace it.
So your quote is almost identical.

I don't know how much difference there would be in an aftermarket windshield.
I would think it would still have to perform and have the same safety as the oem.
In some case the aftermarket identifies a problem and provides a rplacemnt that is of higher quality.
This is evident in some aftermarket rotors that are less prone to warping.

michael_mattox · November 2003

Few dealers actually replace windshields themselves ...They farm the work out...

At least that is true of most dealers...I have never had to replace a Lexus windshield but would be surprised if they are different.

wwest · November 2003

LS430 may cost $65,000, but anyone who pays more than $139 for an OE replacement tire is being ripped off.

And if Lexus does sub-contract and you have a problem, now you have two company management teams to negotiate/argue with.

I might pay a 25 to 30% premium to have Lexus do the work, but never 300%

bitkahuna · November 2003

I'm not one to throw away money, but it's important to learn whether it's an apples to apples comparison. I've met many people who went with an after market windshield after being told it was "exactly the same" only to find distortion in the replacement (easily seen by moving one's viewpoint inside the car over the surface of the glass looking out. Another problem I've heard of is it not fitting quite the same so there's wind noise. On a car as library quiet as an LS that would be VERY noticeable. Last is the glass itself - all glass is not the same. Cheaper glass may get pitted more easily by dust/dirt. Cheaper glass may not offer the same tint/UV shielding as OEM.

All I would ask is that anyone considering after market anything do their homework. Someone gave an example of after market brake rotors... I know people who buy 'cheap' after market rotors and they rust, crack, and have other problems. Now I have after market brakes on my car (StopTech's) but they certainly weren't cheap, haha. I bought them because they really do offer better stopping power than the factory ones, particularly with the larger rims (19") I have. (Note, my car is a GS400, not an LS.)

Summary: Caveat emptor!

wwest · November 2003

As I said, my aftermarket vendor offered to install an actual Lexus sourced windshield for an additional $100.

Anyway, things being the way they are, the economy and all, how can one be sure that the Lexus dealer, or certainly the sub-contractor, actually uses Lexus "glass".

bluestar1 · November 2003

Isn't most parts on the LS labeled Toyota ? I know my sunroof is labeled Toyota. Is the LS windshield sourced from Japan or local sourced ? i.e., is the dealer's OE windshield actually a Toyota glass or not ? Just wondering.

ljflx · November 2003

GX470 - I was going to do a new LX lease but my wife hardly drove it because she was intimidated by its size the past few years. I had taken the GX out for a test drive a few months ago and while I was very impressed with its smooth ride I just didn't think it was big enough for my family needs. So I negotiated a great deal on an LX on the phone and went in to the dealer on Saturday to do the deal. They were going to take me out of one of my LS leases a few months early. But my wife definitely wants to have access to an SUV that she will drive comfortably and often and not rarely like the LX. So we took the GX out for a drive and she loved it. It does ride great. The dealer said to take it home over the weekend to make sure we are comfortable with our choice. After driving it on Sunday including a 50 mile highway trip I can say that I did not experience any of the vibrations that I have read about on the GX board. In fact I found it very smooth with better pick-up than the LX. In my town the LX470, Toyota Land Cruiser and now the GX470 are found at every turn. I know 5 people locally who have GX470's and they all love them and have not experienced any of the vibration or other problems noted on the GX board. Neither did I on the weekend one or on the earlier test drive. So I am past worrying about it.

Now I am trying to decide whether I will buy the GX or lease it. I also will wait till the ones start coming over with the back-up camera mated to the ML/nav - supposedly in late December. I hope that is the case as I don't want to be without an SUV in January around here. The best deal I can get locally is $1500 off. LexusUS - if they are legit - will do $3500 off but it will cost $1000 to ship it. The $1000 differential is not worth it to me. I will likely lease it if the residuals are high enough.

LS430 - My midnight pine is at 60k miles and is letter perfect. I replaced the tires and that is it. Great car - but it was bought solely for business miles and I don't need a third car anymore. My silver is at 35k miles and also letter perfect. But I doubt I will buy it because I (and my wife) am tired of the color. It's a flawless car though and whoever buys it will get a great car. The new 2004 is spectacular. Go drive one. I will likely buy it as it should be late enough in the model year - April - where you can drive a good discount. There are two things that would lead me to lease rather than buy though. One of them is that a new model will be out at the end of the 2004 lease cycle or a year earlier. The other is that I am watching closely the development of the Hybrid technology. Given my preference though I'd like to buy one vehicle and lease the other as it fits my tax situation. So if I buy the GX I will lease the LS. But I haven't ruled out two leases either. Plus when I leased the LS in 2001 it was smarter to buy at lease-end rather than buy up front. So I will do that math again.

I would not hesitate to buy the 2001 though if you really love it. My silver car is a dream and if I weren't tired of the color I'd seriously think of buying it. My buyout is current $7k under what dealers are selling them for. By the way I'd always prefer a car over an SUV. I drive the latter because of bad weather, family needs and carrying large cargo. I also like the elevated driving position. But there is nothing like a great car.

Let me know what you do as we can always cyber-shop together again.

One thing for sure - I am staying all Lexus as the experience is so satisfying.

lehighlexus · November 2003

For complete info on the system, go to letstalk.com. They will tell you which phones are compatible.

sidgriggs · November 2003

Where at letstalk.com does it give complete information about the Lexus bluetooth system?
All I can get is a list of Bluetooth phones--it does not say which will work best with Lexus--or if they will work at all. Just need instructions on how to navigate that site.

lehighlexus · November 2003

Is not a Lexus system. We just use it in our cars. The phones that you find on the site will work with the LS. I believe there are 3 phones, 4 carriers (AT&T, TMobile, Cingular, and Sprint). That site should give you the information needed to get the phone. What you do is buy one of those phones, select one of the four service carriers, then with your nav screen go into the settings. There is a setup screen where you push 1212 in your phone and hit send. All the information from your phone is transmitted through "Bluetooth" with lack of a better term, and it will download your phone book etc. After that, you will be able to keep the phone in the center console, and be able to dial, talk, send, end, etc., all through your nav system. Unfortunately, you won't get voice activated, but it does have one touch capability

wbwynn · November 2003

Thanks for the comments; my lease is up in June; I will definitely drive both the GX and new LS. I wonder if it ever would make sense to buy the lease car and trade it if the differential is favorable?

Let's stay in touch; I am very interested in what you decide to do. By the way, I would like to see XM Radio incorporated in all Lexus vehicles...it's a winning entertainment and news platform in so many ways.

lehighlexus · November 2003

It's easy to install

antiosama · November 2003

To all;
Thanks for your help on the windshield.
I decided to try Safelite's repair system. Since I have a very small(nickel size) round damage area, they said they can fix it and afterwards the area will be like new structurally, and only a faint imperfection will appear. For $60 I figured I would give it a try. If that fails, I'll buy a new windshield. I'm assuming for the $225 that safelite said for a new windshield it doesn't include the UV-reducing film that the OEM windshield has.

I also have a question about brake rotors. I am looking to upgrade my OEM front rotors to either cross-drilled or slotted rotors. I prefer slotted rotors but Power Slot does not make them for the LS400. Does anyone know any other company that manufacturers cross drilled or slotted rotors for the 2nd generation LS400(1995-2000)?

antiosama · November 2003

Forget about that brake stuff. I checked some places online, and they say they sell slotted and cross drilled rotors for the 2000 LS400.

wwest · November 2003

Long ago I was told that my auto-shading glasses would not work inside a car since most glass does not allow UV to pass.....???

But I did notice that they worked in the C210 with a plexiglass windshield.

syswei · November 2003

Normal glass (and maybe certain plastics) blocks a high percentage of UV, I think >90% though I don't know the particular number. Maybe this film that others have mentionned (hadn't heard of it myself) blocks a greater percentage.

zdude · November 2003

Sprint does not have a blutooth phone at the moment. Try "lexus.letstalk.com" and it will show you the info you need. I just received the SE T610 and it does work with the LS430 system but I could only transfer only number at a time to the LS but I was able to upload my Outlook contact list to the T610 (including e-mail addys

) using a bluetooth USB adapter on my PC.
I asked about the XM system for the LS and it looks like the satellite transponder sit on the rear window deck, it is not built into the antenna structure

this kind of sucks.
Also, I was there to fix my front headlight HID whose computer malfunctioned and I am awaiting parts

ljflx · November 2003

I doubt that it will ever be worth it because of the sales tax. You'll have to be able to cover the car cost and the sales tax. So for me that would mean $37k + $2k (tax). Now the dealers are selling the 2001's around here in the $42-43k range so it may be possible to buy out the lease and sell it privately for a profit. When I had a friend buy out my 95 LS400 he got my buyout at $5k under what the dealer was selling it for and was so greatful that he surprised my wife and I with a weekend stay in NY at the Waldoff and bought us show tix and dinner. So there is a great deal out there but it is hard to convert it for yourself unless you keeping the car long-term.

I will keep you posted on what I do. Even today I parked at a garage in NYC and a guy pulled up behind me in a GX470. I asked him how it was and he had nothing but the highest compliments about it. The only thing he didn't like was the rear door.

oriente · November 2003

Given the disappointments from other luxury manufacturers, I find myself considering an LS430. The Q45 and 745i are ugly; the XJ8 too cramped; the A8L is OK if it did not have the "L", etc. On the Lexus, I am concerned that it will be redesigned in the next couple years. I have looked everywhere for any redesign info to no avail . Does anyone know what are Lexus' plans for the LS430? The 2004 still looks good, but it is getting somewhat dated, and I dont think it will compete favorably in the next couple years.

bluestar1 · November 2003

Speculation remains MY 2006.

wwest · November 2003

Reminds me of the folks that delay buying a new PC because the new model is just around the corner, faster, more memory, less expensive,etc, etc.

Live's short, eat desert first!

Don't deny yourself two, or maybe more, years of enjoyment of a new LS430 waiting for the new model.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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