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Mazda MPV: Problems & Solutions
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Comments
I would highly encourage everyone with this problem to at the very least demand an extended warranty on the power train at no cost and no deductible. We screamed and yelled enough and we got a bumper-to-bumper warranty on the car for 7 years/100K miles for free. Start with your dealership's GM and they will probably refer you to a regional Mazda rep who can make it happen. You still have the option to pursue the lemon law in the future even if you take the warranty.
your van is the one where you can reliably get the thing to hard-shift right?
it would seem it would be good for someone else to attempt to either add or remove support for that observation.
was he the one who drove the purchase? i wouldn't be nervous if we had purchased one (and we had driven three), but it would erk me to no end each time i got behind the wheel...and THAT would make the rest of the people in the car nervous for sure.
well...with all those MEs in your family - hope you design a good experiment.
but seriously - if you notice the effect, you're going to have to bracket the observation (that the Trac off mitigates), by a few runs with the Trac on to make sure the mitigation isn't a function of the vehicle warming up.
then as a control, get your husband to drive it in both configurations.
good luck.
The hard-shift happens when you hold on the pedal after moderate acceleration. If you keeps on pedal down or release the pedal a little before the 2-3 shift, you can get around it.
I've had my MPV a year in late Feb. Again, I love this vehicle; handling, parking, etc. The tranny thing does not peeve me TOO much since I know they will stand behind it. Chrysler did/does the same with their crummy trannies. I had two such Chryslr. mini's with new tranny's put in at 90K by the mfg...so this is nothing much new to me other than frustrating that I'm STILL DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE IN ANOTHER BRAND!
What does this have to do with hard shifts, and the difficulty in fixing them, you ask? Just this: what if the Jatco transmission and its software is actually not flawed at all? What if the problem lies in its interaction with other systems? For example, what if there is a problem in the interaction between the transmission system and the throttle-control system, such that certain inputs from the throttle-control system, under certain conditions, cause an inappropriate response from the transmission system? If this were the case, it could make the problem difficult for Mazda and Jatco to diagnose and fix. I'm not excusing the delay in getting a fix, but if this theory is correct it could help explain the delay.
I am sure if the trunk, AC and, power windows used independent power sources the "trunk pop" interaction would not occur (unless the problem is caused by radiated noise!)
Steve, Host
one problem (from my perspective) is if there is an inherent design defect in the "logical architecture", then one wonders why all vehicles with identical architecture don't seem to exhibit the problem.
to counter that - just an example or two:
one might assume that if the system design is marginal and not very fault tolerant, a component of the architecture could be non-conforming...say perhaps a component on a commom communications bus sending messages when it shouldn't be resulting in message collisions between boxes/modules...and the result could be poor overall system behavior / performance.
another possibility raised before in the thread is simply just one faulty sensor.
these are evidently fairly complex systems and without a better understanding of the system design and operation, people may falsely conclude the defect lies in one area, when in fact it really lies elsewhere.
so yes - i'm with you - perhaps the TCM and ECM or other pieces like the transmission aren't working together as they should.
there have been some observations that when the vehicle is warm - the likelyhood of the hard-shift goes up. that might fit with a thermal sensitivity - a faulty transducer or a faulty micro-processor based component which is being affected by some heat source.
if that were the case though, would the mitigation via software patch alone be sufficient?
one wonders. it is an interesting problem, with i'm sure an interesting ultimate root cause...
These are some of the possible contributing factors:
1) Shortly before this change I had the ATF replaced with Mobil 1 ATF, although the hard shifting continued right after the change
2) I took the MPV on a week long ski trip which put 400 miles of high speed and up and down hill driving on the car. I started noticing some improvment while doing the hill driving.
3) The MPV past the 3000 mile mark
4) After reading the posts on the hypergrounding, I tightened the battery ground cable at the point where it is bolted to the car frame.
I think there have been other posts noting improvement after extended highway runs.
However there could be a zillion other factors, and the problem could return anytime.
Good luck to all and will keep updating my situation. In the meantime I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Best of luck in whatever you end up doing....I'd be as furious as the rest of you are if I was having that shifting problem. (I'd be scared for my safety, too, not to mention my tranny's condition.)
Sharon
People should shy away from this vehicle until the problem is solved. I said that over two months ago and people still believe that this won't happen to me and continue to purchase this van. Unbelievable.
The negitive terminal of the battery should have at least four large stranded wires coming from it. One to the engine block by starter. #two to the tranny. #three to the front car body. #four to the rear of the car body... But vibration and power loads will cause a varations of voltage and noise from motors (heaters, servos, door sliders, will cause problems if not filtered out...
The biggest problem is going to be the dealers. Their techinical level of their service departments are not anywhere near what it takes to understand computer noise problems...
I drove my 03 MPV(10K) to Los Angeles and back (800 miles) on the bumpty bump LA ten lane bumper to bumper freeways (temp 65 no rain some fog) and the car ran perfectly all the way. The tranny was perfect in the stop and go traffic. My point is that the overall design of the car is fine. The tranny is excellent. Assume that the tranny oil is clean and at proper levels and all electronic componets are wired properly and working. I have the original software. Then that leaves the power voltage and ground.
What everyone could do is to inspect the battery ground cable where it is bolted just below the battery. Make sure the connection is tight and clean.. There is another cable there that runs to the engine. The engine and body ground depend on this connection.(Very poor design). If moisture and acid is(oxidation increases resistance) on the connection then you have a possible problem...
WARNING: do not loosen this ground connection. you must remove the battery PLUS terminal first. In case you have to clean the ground connections. Removing the PLUS cable will reset the computer but will not glitch it... Make sure that the ground is clean and tight before you replace the PLUS cable on the battery....
Tj
Would be interesting if Rumor24 or Notasoccermom followed Tj directions about cleaning and tightening the terminals to see if that makes a difference.
BTW, I did notice some rust on the engine mounts in my 2004 MPV so some corrosion could have affected the ground connections too.
Our power door problems, don't compare to some of the tranny problems others have experienced, but it is still frustrating as heck.
I just took my 2003 MPV (LX) in a week ago for the hard shifting. Mine occurs ALWAYS from 1st to 2nd gear, mostly in the "cold" state, but not necessarily - sometimes while warm. While the dealership said they actually felt it on a cold drive the next morning after taking it in, they said there are multiple complaints about this same problem, but it is operating "normally". What?@#)@! They said it's because it has an electronic transmission, and that's what they do sometimes. Yeah, ok.
I'll keep checking this site for updates, and look into the HyperGrounding I'm reading about. Thanks for the info everyone puts out here, and again - I'm glad I'm not alone. I, too, am worried about the day after my warranty, when the tranny falls to pieces.
Bottom line - this is a new vehicle and shouldn't be shifting like this.
Thanks again,
Doug
As for the doors - have you made sure the contacts in the door and pillar are clean - take a pencil or pen eraser to them to clean them off. Have you checked the lower track for any obstructions (cheerios, etc.). Whenever our doors act up on our 2002 ES, these are the first two things we check.
RBB
Same idea for a malfunction on the sun roof motors..
I have heard time and again about when the dealer reflashes the TCM that the tranny shifts good for awhile, then problem returns.. What if there is a bad connection/ground to the TCM and when dealer distrubs it, it works good until the bad "connection" returns from vibration????
This would explain why Mazda can't come up with a fix... Glitchy computers are a nightmare to fix...
It might be simple and it might not be. Hopfully the problems is not a bad wiring harness or some pinched wires in the frame somewhere....
There is special equipment for finding glitchs such as this... But the Jerk Water dealers won't have it or have a clue how to use it...
I have heard of Electronic repair shops for cars but have never seen one....
Tj
The computer controlled tranny does "learn" from driving habits. Whether that's a good idea or not is another story...
Anyway, from all the postings this doesn't sound like a grounding problem. The transmission isn't drawing all that much current for computer controlled sensors to activate and poor grounding would be showing up elsewhere in the electronic controlled modules. The fact that a reflash seems to cure shifting for a "short time" comes back (IMO) to a logic chip somewhere that's loosing it's ASIC code.
I'm have no idea how many MPV's are experiencing this or if there has been an actual tranny failure yet. If Mazda was smart (maybe they are..) they could research VIN numbers, logic chips (likely more than one manufacturer or vendor from my experience) and build date(s). Then draw a conclusion (make it so...).
The fact that (or so it appears) Mazda has yet to satisfy this problem in the time span this has developed points to (again, IMO) that the number of complaints has not reached the magic number yet, the cure is "big bucks", or they are completely baffled (chose one - checking two does not qualify... )
Car passed 3000 miles mark,
It has been extreme cold temperature here in New England,
The last hard shift happened when I changed from regular unlead, filled the tank with Super unlead. Now it is the #3 tank of premium gas.
Geezzz, the minus ground cable should be bigger than the Plus cable... Terrible design. Now,, the minus cable is one piece that runs to the engine block.
The problem is just below the battery they have stripped the insulation from the cable and crimped a connector that bolts to the body..
Crimping cables is a terrible way to make a low voltage/current connection. The connection should be soldered as not to be effected by corrosion and vibration...
There is another ground cable on the right side of engine that connects the body to the engine block by way of the mounting flange...
They ground the right side car body by way of the engine block!!!!
This is extremely poor design... Same kind of undersized crummy cable... I can imagine what road salt does to these connections....
Tj
battery backed RAM memory retention problem? i suppose it's possible.
grounding? as another poster indicates, if true, why would it exhibit in most people's vehicles on a 2->3 shift. why would it start off OK, and get bad as the car warmed up? for others, why would the situation improve over time. myself, i tend to doubt this as the root cause.
a thermal flakey? i would think that would be more likely than the other scenarios. ie: some cold solder joints on a printed ckt board, a ckt board with hairline fractures in some traces, a heat sensitive component, a heat sensitive transducer / encoder...
personally, i like much better theories involving an actuator like a solenoid with stiction issues, or perhaps clogged hydraulic passages. maybe even something like a non-linearity in the gas pedal position encoder.
but who knows really?
I HATE to read about consumers being dogged by manufacturers and dealers. Been there, done that. Reading about Mazda service managers treating customers like 5-yr-olds does not make this vehicle very enderaring, either.
I have an '03 TL Type S w/Nav. They have such a transmission issue that Honda extended the warranty to 7/100k miles. I have 17k miles on mine, no problems with my transmission.
And I'm not worried about either. These are remote problems. Are they annoying to those that have them, certainly. Would I be screaming on every message board if I had a problem, you bet.
But that's just it, how many posts back do you have to go before you read a "No problems with my MPV", "Love my MPV". Message boards are mostly for problems and issues. Don't be spooked by what you read here. Be concerned, yes, but not frightened away.
Just my $.02 ($.005 after taxes)
All of this in 32k miles. Acura has made considerable efforts to correct their problems but during the beginning of this issue continued to act as Mazda is acting now.
Maybe this is a way to keep sales up at the same time working on the issue "behind" the scenes.
The TL had me bought and if not for the tranny issues we'd still have it. Good luck with yours and you may not ever need a replacment.
If it were not for these forums many owners would never know problem existed with most vehicles. Same goes for good items as well like the fact my wife loves this van and is one of those who said, "I'll never drive a minivan".
Our '04 MPV is demonstrating the hard shift at least once a day now @ 2800 miles. I experienced the issue but unless it is found to be a significant issue by Mazda I am not worried about it. Anyone who has ever driven a muscle car with a shift kit knows how the hard shifts feels.
Let the people who are having this problem fight with Mazda, and then/if they resolve it, buy one.
Why get into a mess?
Good Luck!
These things are not exactly flying off the lots, and there are quite a few 2003s left over.
I'm taking my MPV in for a service on Thursday. I'll see if I can get the same date out of my dealer.
Steve.
As a side note, our MPV also seems to have quieted down a bit now that it's at 3500K miles. Doesn't happen nearly as often, sometimes not at all. Maybe my husband has figured out the magic way to avoid the hard shift, or the van really has adjusted to our driving habits. Or maybe the teeth on the transmission gears have all been shorn smooth so we don't feel it anymore--LOL!!! We will still have the reflash done when it comes out of course.
Vickie5, I really hate that you are having problems with your dealership not taking you seriously. As a fellow female, I know what it's like. Whenever I have taken my cars in and I tell them what the car's doing, and I also tell them that I think it may be this or that, they smirk at me like "yeah, sure". And usually I'm right! I wish you luck, and try to get that warranty!!
You can always have the "fix" if it starts hard shifting again.
My 2004 is still shifting properly after 10 days--a record!
You may want to consider changing the fluid to Mobil 1 ATF although it costs about $130 for the fluid and labor.