Lexus LS 400/LS 430

rennybosch · January 2005

After complaining to Verizon and Motorola about not getting any kind of ring-through sound when there is an incoming call while Bluetooth connected, I finally called Lexus and spoke to a very helpful and well-informed person. He was aware of the problems, and suggested that as an alternative to an audible alert when there is an incoming call, I should put the phone on "Vibrate" and keep it in a pocket where I can feel it. This has worked for me, and I am no longer losing incoming calls.

rennybosch · January 2005

As kmll indicated in post #6865, a class action lawsuit has been filed in California against Verizon in connection with missing Bluetooth functionality on the Motorola V710. The action was filed by Kirtland & Packard, and I sent them an email asking about it. They sent me back an email saying they have had so much interest in the suit that they have decided to construct a page on their law firm website (www.kirtlandpackard.com) to provide the public more information about this action. This will include a copy of the complaint filed with the court, as well as a questionnaire about our experience with the Verizon v710. They encourage people both within and outside the state of California to respond.

The lead attorney is Laura Digirolamo <lmd@KirtlandPackard.com>. You can email her to get on a list to receive an email with the web link when it is ready.

jvcn · January 2005

They're baaack!!! (See MSN) Oh forget it. Don't have time to compete with aging children.

garyh1 · January 2005

I filed a complaint, and suggested they withdraw the posting permission of the writer.

garyh1 · January 2005

I received an email this afternoon from MSN stating that they pulled the offensive review based on the "irrelevant and inaccurate information" it contained. No mention was made whether they took away posting permission from the reviewer.

jsb16 · January 2005

I was also one of the first people to get a V710 to go with my 04 LS. I love the Bluetooth feature and switched from Sprint (which had no BT phones) to Verizon just to get the new phone. I would strongly recommend others to sign up with Cingular/ATT because they do not cripple their BT phones like Verizon did in the hopes of making a few bucks off ringtones. I am not ready to dump Verizon just yet and pay the $175 ETA fee but I will consider it if this class action suit is unsatisfactory. Motorola and Verizon both claimed that a firmware upgrade were being worked on and that kept many customers with the hardware past the 15 day return period but it is abundantly clear now that Verizon has no interest in enabling the Motorola BT features and crippled it intentionally. The new RAZR phone is $400 vs. the V710 $250 but the RAZR is a much nicer phone with working features. The other problem with relying on Verizon for technologically advanced phones is that CDMA phones like Sprint/Verizon are so much less popular wordwide than GSM phones compatible with Cingular/ATT/T-Mobile. The larger GSM market makes it easier for manufacturers to recoup their development costs. Go with Cingular if you are in a position to change carriers and you want to get a good Lexus compatible system.

sidgriggs · January 2005

Do all of the features of the RAZR work with the LS???? I am still using an old Nokia, because all of the Bluetooth features work.

famwald · January 2005

A month ago we bought an '05 LS 430 with the heated/cooled seats, so they have the perforated leather. I'm pleased with the heating ability, although they're a little slow to warm up, and sometimes they get too warm. Some days I just don't even need to turn them on.

Today we went out in the LS in the morning but did not turn the heat on in the seats. The heat system was "off" ... totally. No fresh air running on the seats, nothing.

For lunch we went out in our '03 BMW 530 that has unheated leather seats. The BMW seats felt much colder through the same layers of clothing.

Both cars were parked in the same garage.

Could it have something to do with the perforated leather? (strange but possible)

Same clothes, same long wool coat, striking difference in the comfort factor.

Any ideas why the BMW seats felt colder than our LS430's seats withOUT the heat turned on?

wwest · January 2005

Was the BMW parked while the LS was being driven. You might be surprised at how long the seats will retain heat in a garage with closed car.

ON the other hand you are sort of comparing apples and oranges. I'm sure you are aware that cloth seats never "feel" cold, perforated seats are sort of "half" cloth.

famwald · January 2005

<<perforated seats are sort of "half" cloth. >>

Thanks wwest, that would explain the difference. Duh . . . why didn't I think of that, but I had a feeling the holes had something to do with it.

sidgriggs · January 2005

Does anyone have personal experience with the Motorola RAZR phone and their LS430? If so, would you please share your likes and dislikes; advantages; problems, etc. I need to get a new phone & sure like the look of the RAZR.

ljflx · January 2005

Don't know if anyone has seen or posted this as it is UK based. Lexus biggest on bluetooth early on so they get the headline but this is something to be mindful of for anyone with bluetooth or any wireless system in your cars.

http://www.scmagazine.com/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=newsDetails&a- mp;newsUID=bc5789cf-e448-4a6e-bee9-a5dd291405ed&newsType=Late- st%20News

rennybosch · January 2005

Kirtland and Packard have added a page on their class action lawsuit to their website, at:

http://www.kirtlandpackard.com/v710

It also contains an input form on which you can describe your own experiences and complaints.

I hate lawsuits but in this case I'm hoping it may do us some good.

pip7 · January 2005

I have a 2005 LS - purchased Jan 08, 2005. Yesterday I noticed my smart key was not working. The battery was completely out. This is without leaving it near any of various devices listed in the manual (that I know of). So, I got one of the new keys. Lo and behold, the key does not work with smart access - only with the remote buttons and placing it in the ignition switch.

The dealer claims that all the keys worked at the outset (I never tested them). The service dept was closed.

Question is - does anyone know of a method to reaquaint the keys to the car without going to the dealer? The manual doesn't really cover this.

sidgriggs · January 2005

Sounds like that 2nd key you tried is the valet key. Try the 3rd key that came with the car. If that doesn't work--go to the dealer.

dval · January 2005

I think the smart key system can be deactivated with a button under the dash. Are you sure you didn't do this by mistake? Check the manual. This is for 04.

pip7 · January 2005

Thanks dval and sidriggs! It turned out to be that I was (oops) using the (oops) valet key. I didn't notice the tell-tale absence of the little trunk unlock pic. How many master keys are you supposed to get? I thought that since there are three settings for the seat memory that ther were three keys - I guess not.

famwald · January 2005

I only got 2 master keys and 1 valet key with my '05 in December.

dorothyk · January 2005

Thanks for the reply SV. The 2005 LS430s are being shipped with the 18" P245/45WR18 All Season tires instead of the standard 17" P225/55HR17. The standard tires are H speed rated at 130 mph. The 18" tires are W speed rated at 168 mph, which are normally seen on Exotic Sports Cars. Do we really need a 168 mph rated tire for the LS430?

Lexus is following the trend of other auto companies towards larger wheel sizes purely for cosmetic reason at the expense of ride quality. This is a hot button for me because we recently purchases a RX330 and were forced into the 18 wheels. The shorter sidewalls have a significant impact of the tires ability to cushion the ride. Many of the squeaks and rattles we are experiencing in the RX330 are due in part to the road impact forces being transferred to the cabin.

We have been told we can custom order a vehicle with 17 wheels but this limits our ability to negotiate on the price. Swapping wheels is not really an option. The tire pressure system, brake system and navigation system are all calibrated at the factory to the installed tires.

mfpr · January 2005

There should be no problem with swapping 18" with 17" wheels for any of the car's systems, as long as the overall diameter of the wheel/tire combination is the same. I believe the standard 17" LS430 wheels and the optional 18" wheels have the same diameter and should not cause any problems.

sv7887 · January 2005

Dorothy,

Honestly it sounds like your salesman is feeding you nonsense. I have 17" wheels with snow tires mounted on it right now. No trouble whatsoever. In fact the bolt pattern has not changed from the '01 so 17" wheels should fit fine..

I had those W rated tires on my '02 LS430 with Sports Suspension..At $268 a piece I wasn't very thrilled with them..Michelin Pilots would be a better bargain. What's even more ironic is that the car is electronically governed to 135 MPH..So, I have trouble seeing the use for those tires!!

I don't see how changing a set of rims should require ordering a different car. Back in '02 when I objected to the Sports Suspension and 17" inch wheels the dealer offered to swap the 17's for 16's off another car..Surely Lexus dealers have 17" wheels on hand for their cars! I'd be quite firm with them on this issue.

Hope this helps,

SV

famwald · January 2005

I agree ... there should be no problem in switching out the wheels for 17" ones. When I bought our '05 LS430 in December, I was looking seriously at a used '04 but it had the 18" tires. The salesman said wheels & tires could be switched out - no problem - but it wouldn't save me any money due to labor, etc. I ended up with an '05 and 17" wheels anyway---better color and easier deal to negotiate. I was adamant about not wanting the 18" tires, though. Perhaps your salesman is inexperienced (to put it politely) or just does not want to sell you that SUV.

When we bought our '03 BMW 530 the saleswoman told us that anyone buying the 17" or 18" tire is encouraged to buy "tire insurance" due to the higher risk of blowouts when hitting potholes as well as damage to the wheel rims themselves. I don't need that kind of worry, with or without insurance.

BTW, Consumer Reports magazines does not care for the larger size performance tires either on wet or snowy roads. CR says they're great on dry roads but awful on wet. That was good enough for me, along with the pothole issue.

Perhaps it is time to get on edmunds' car search for dealers in your surrounding area, who might have exactly what you want. We bought our BMW this way. We knew exactly what we wanted, called the dealers for their "best price" and ended up doing the negotiations over the phone--a much better way to negotiate IMHO. Never saw the car until we went down to pay and take possession.

Don't be afraid of hurting the salesman's feelings. Clearly he is not losing sleep by worrying about your feelings. Once they have your money and sold a car, they're focused on the next customer. It's their job.

jamesfletcher2 · January 2005

Lexus Division General Manager Denny Clements announced at the NADA convention that just finished up the following official new redesign products and release dates:

GS 350/GS 460 Spring 2005

IS 250/IS 350 Fall 2005

ES 350 Spring 2006

GS 450h Spring 2006

LS 460 Fall 2006

I hope this helps you all with the limited flow of accurate new model release dates from Lexus.

jamesfletcher2 · February 2005

Denny Clements also noted "Lexus is going to be the pre-eminent luxury-car brand in the world." "We're not about volume any more. We're out of our adolescence. It's about who we're going to be as a brand." This was in response to Mr. Clements noting that Lexus can grow from 287,927 units sold in 2004 (in the USA) to 350,000 units by the end of the decade.

famwald · February 2005

We've had our '05 LS430 for 6 weeks and the transmission has me intrigued.

Our previous two cars, the '98 Volvo XC70AWD and '98Toyota Avalon, allowed us to drive down a steepish hill in the neighborhood, without foot on the accelerator, and the cars would pick up enough speed to get us up the next mild incline. A silly game of sorts, but it brought some excitement and challenge into the boring drive home at the end of the day.

In our '05 LS as well as our '03 BMW 530, it's a no-go. Both seem to stay in the gear they started out in. Both have the capacity to manually shift gears instead of leaving it in "D" and I wonder if this is the reason.

Did the Toyota and Volvo actually shift gears as the car's speed increased on a mild hill even though the accelerator was not being pressed?

This has puzzled us and we figure someone on this forum will know the answer. Thanks!

billsoter · February 2005

I presently own a 2003 Lexus LS430 and am seriously considering buying the new generation LS when it comes to market next year. One of my strong desires in any new vehicle is the ability to incorporate my Ipod MP3 music player into the vehicle's audio system. Mercedes has announced such a complete Ipod integration in their vehicles for later this year. Does anyone have any idea what Lexus plans are in this area?

paulchiu · February 2005

I think Toyota is waiting for a better standard before incorporating some iPod connection. Frankly, if you burn MP3 at 256Kbs or under onto your device, the sound quality will not be as good as a CD in our Mark Levinson LS430 sound system. I have heard the hard wired iPod system in the BMW and I was not impressed. Surely, for many, quanitity is more important than quality. The sheer amount of titles at your finger tips is fabulous with those iPods, but what good is it if you cannot voice command it while driving. If you are serious about your music quality and go lossless AAC or some other format, then you will have great fidelity, but wouldn't a bunch of burned CD's do that too. Changing CD's is very doable while driving. Searching with the flywheel is hard and may cause aaccidents.

Despite all these concerns, it's likely that once Sony has a great standard, Toyota will built some great voice command MP3 device into our flagship.

In the meantime, enjoy the Mark Levinson!

Paul

carguyay · February 2005

I heard that a electronics store outside of Chicago called "The Little Guys" in Homewood Illinois knows of a product that lets you hook your ipod MP3 to your audio system. It is suppose to be out in March 05. The were talking with a radio jock named Steve Dall about it last week. Try them for info.

alpha2 · February 2005

I have been following the message board for some time, the owner of a '98 LS. Xlnt reading. In spite of the new 460 model coming out next year, I still anticipate the purchase of an '05 perhaps this month. I am in So. Calif, and would like some expertise and direction regarding reasonable expections for cap cost, financing factor and residual, 15k annual,for a Modern Luxury, presumably a Tier 1 credit risk. Any input would be greatly appreciated. BTW - the 98 just went over 100k, owned for 3 years, 60k, 90k and torsion bars have been only real costs, all done at Toyota dealerships with xlnt service. Will keep it in the family til the cows come home. Regards

wbwynn · February 2005

There needs to be a direct connection to the ML system - both retro for earlier models and for the new LS. FM and cassette connections degrade the sound. Lexus should be a leader here, as the landscape for automobile audio is fast-changing. In its annual survey, brandchannel.com named Apple the most influential brand in the world. Time for a connection Lexus.

ggeorge · February 2005

Hi Folks, I finally took my first plunge into Lexus. I bought a 1999 LS400 with 65000 miles. The dealer said that I would have to change out the timing belt at 95000. True? Any other comments about maintenance or trouble issues that I might look for would be appreciated.

Sylvia · February 2005

A reporter would like to interview someone who recently bought a large sedan such as a Mercedes E-Class, Lexus LS 430, Mercury Crown Victoria or any large Cadillac or Lincoln.

Please send your daytime contact info to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, February 11, 2005.

feverhart · February 2005

I'M PUZZLED. Prior to 2004 the LS had 2 oil change schedules: one for heavy service and one for normal usage(7500). Starting with the 2004, the required oil change is at 5000 miles. Have the engine qualities deteriorated that much?

The Porsche Boxster requires oil and filter change every 20,000 miles or 2 years, using 0-30W Mobile 1. I strongly suspect that the LS engine is every bit as well made and the quality is as good as the Porsche engine. Or maybe not? I couldn't get a good answer from Customer Service. I have my suspicion of what's going on. Maybe someone can truly enlighten me on this quandary.

Thanks

deanedell · February 2005

Here is the explanation from Riez over on the IS300 board regarding the 5000 mi oil changes. Basically, Toyota/Lexus is covering their butts from negligent owners. As to the Porsche, maybe they are using synthetic oil?

--------------------------------------------------

Check out the December 2004 issue of Car & Driver, Csaba Csere's "The Steering Column", p. 13. He has an interesting discussion about Toyota's recent "sludge-damaged engines" issue. Points to Toyota research that "many" of these so-called damaged engines were in leased cars with 30-40,000 miles. Looks like many never had their oil filters changed and had oil change interval problems (i.e., the leasees weren't changing their oil like they should).



Toyota also determined that owners/leasees weren't following the "severe service" intervals as needed.



An excerpt:



"So how is an owner to determine the threshold between 'normal' and 'severe' service? Toyota concluded that an owner couldn't be expected to know and has since revised its oil-change shedules for all its vehicles to 5000 miles."

gee35coupe · February 2005

How did those cars get past the required inspection at the end of the lease. I know I have always had to keep maint records on my leased cars.

Sounds like corporate BS to me.

gteach26 · February 2005

I've leased different cars/trucks from Ford, Lincoln, Lexus, and BMW... I've never been asked to demonstrate that I've serviced the vehicle. In fact, the turn in process has been so quick and painless that it has prompted me to continue leasing.

I always tend to do maintenace on my leased cars at "decent" intervals of around 7,500 miles. Still though, I've been known to skip a service visit or two. The fact that I do not own the car doesn't help my motivation much.

As to sludge-damaged engines, I suppose these cars were not of the "Certified Pre-Owned" types.. don't those "supposedly" go through a 3 Zillion point inspection prior to resale? I'd think they'd pick up on the fact that a car hasn't been serviced regularly during the certification process -- unless that process is a bunch of marketing baloney.

gee35coupe · February 2005

I was a member of those forums. Some cars were sludging before 16K. If the engines fail from "lack of maintenance" that soon, I think they need to rethink the design. Especially when some cars go much longer intervals.

Like I said back then, there's no sludge issue with Toyota's other engines. Why did these Toyota/Lexus owners choose to neglect those particular models. It didn't add up on my calculator.

feverhart · February 2005

Thanks for your reply deanedell. Having not read the article you referred to, I do know that there were problems with certain Corrola engines and maybe other Toyota engines. Why just Toyota experiencing these problems? It seems it was a design problem in these engines possibly producing cavitation resulting in sludge-damaged engines.

As to "So how is an owner to determine the threshold between 'normal' and 'severe' service? Toyota concluded that an owner couldn't be expected to know and has since revised its oil-change shedules for all its vehicles to 5000 miles". The owner's manuual clearly spelled out the difference between normal and severe service--decernable by any 4th grader. Or maybe it's presumed that Lexus owners haven't reached that mental ability and would simply accept any explaination, however lacking.

If owners do not get an oil change in 40,000 miles or on a regular basis, why would mandating a 5,000 mile schedule induce tham to do otherwise?

todd2004 · February 2005

I have had three Lexus leases over the years, two were with Bank One and the other with Toyota credit. All three experiences were similar in that it was a hassle to turn in the cars and noone even asked about service! These are the same people who complain about the condition of the returned lease cars and lack of good service by lessees. I always followed the service recommendations for each car and did the minimum required because I knew I was not going to keep them afterlease. I own a 2003 LS430 Ultra now and I change the oil every 7500 miles with the Amsoil synthetic oil. I know that I could go twice as long, based on the Amsoil research, but the Lexus book calls for the 7500 mile interval.I also use the Amsoil in my 2004 VW Touareg because Vw specifies the synthetic in their V8.

sis2 · February 2005

Can anyone knowledgeable about this answer please?

There are 5 differences between the

LQ (Custom Lux) and the PT (Modern Lux) pkgs: Dynamic Radar, Pre-Collision, headlight washers, power door closers, and laminated glass, all of these on the LQ pkg., making the price increase $2500/invoice and $3000/retail.

I'd like to know from a consumer point, what real difference would these things make in a driving experience or any other aspect? I'm mainly referring to the pre-coll and radar. I already assume the others are price- increase excuses, but are these 5 extras worth the extra $2000-3000??

oac · February 2005

Hi George:

I own a fully-loaded '99 LS with 98K miles, and all scheduled maintainances performed up to date.

Here are the rough costs for scheduled maint:

30K mile -> ~$150

60K mile -> ~$600

90K mile -> ~$1300

These are costs based on my location here in So Cal.

Have changed tires (2x) and rear brakes, along with regular oil changes at 5K mile intervals. That's been it.

Oh, the timing belt was changed at the 90K-mile service, along with a few other things.

Hope the above helps you with your '99....

rennybosch · February 2005

To me the dynamic cruise control would be worth the extra cost. However, if the only difference is that the PT has the laser cruise control vs. the radar, then it would not be worth it. In other words, either type of dynamic cruise control (where the car follows at a set distance, and slows down if the car in front slows down) is worth 3K to me over the life of the car. The other things don't do as much for me.

mitchellrowe · February 2005

my 2005 ls430 with 18" dunlaps was returned to the dealer for a refund exchange to a gx470 .

the dealer COULD NOT balance the tires . the factory quotes a nonsense fix that fixes nothing . lexus will go back to the 17" quickly .

the dealers in my area are meeting with the factory monday ( wash to ny ) .

vcheng · February 2005

.... when the dealer could not balance the OEM Dunlops to my satisfaction, he swapped them out with a new set of five Michelins. Problem solved.

In your case, rather than change the tires, you had them change the car. A bit drastic, but an effective solution nonetheless

Just curious as to why nobody suggested changing the complete set of tires?

mitchellrowe · February 2005

the factory , in a gesture of goodwill , offered a set of 5 michelin pilot " w " rated tires .

i wanted the 17" wheels and a set of michelin mxv4's with an " h " rating .

however , at that point i was tired . every time i was at the dealer's , someone came in to scream about their new '05 ls with 18" wheels and dunlops ... while the factory denied a problem ?

deceision : no 18" anything for me . i wanted my ls to ride and perform like an ls .

garyh1 · February 2005

Yikes, I have an '05 LS with 18" Dunlops (just coming up on 1000 miles) that seems fine to me. How did you know there was a problem? What did you experience that sent you back to the dealer? Is this a problem with all the cars, or just some?

I agree that I wouldn't want summer tires. Are the "W" rated tires all-season? Are there any 18" tires that are not problemmatic?

yickwo · February 2005

I am about to pull the trigger on a '05 LS with 18" wheels. Should I hold off? What kind of problems with the 18inchers?

On a separate note, why is Lexus offering a $750 cash incentive to only recent college grads? How many recent college grads can afford an ES/IS 330 let alone LS430? Am I missing some thing?

mitchellrowe · February 2005

on the 2005 ls430, the 18" dunlops are " v" rated not " w "

they are all season tires

there is an upcharge on the factory monroney sticker of about $190 to upgrade the 17" standard ( as on a 2004 ls ) with the standard size all season fat dunlops .

you'll notice on the upper passenger side exterior windshield , notifying a purchaser not to expect much more than 20,000 miles on the optional 18" wheels and tires . they are tall and thin and ride like driving over railroad tracks ( even on a smooth boulevard blacktop).

to know if there's a problem ? most of the cars i have tested , have an apparent wheel balance problem from 60 to 72 mph ... with a shimmy , bounce , and outright grumbling . i drove one car that did it's thing at 25 mph . dealers other than mine tell me customers complain the ride isn't like their old ls and don't speak of balance problems or out of round problems . very well COULD BE MY DEALER DOES NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF BALANCING OUT OF ROUND TIRES ON THEIR SOPHISTICATED BALANCERS . if you are experiencing no problems , it's a good chance you have 17" with normal size dunlops . all the ls430's were shipped to the states with the 17's until early december or so when the 18's started coming in .

mitchell rowe

mitchellrowe · February 2005

vickwo : no one can tell you to hold off . that's your call . however : 1 - look for an early 2005 ls with 17"s . 2 - drive the car at least 20 miles and get them hot . absolutely at highway speeds of 60 62 70 75 mph on a smooth recently paved blacktop highway in all 2 or 3 lanes .

also check for drift to one side or the other , and what i coined the wandering desert camel ... where the car just wanders from side to side like mindless robot .

item # 2 : the $ 750 cash rebate for a college graduate in the last 90 day's . no you are not missing anything . obviously it's an ABSOLUTE PHONEY REBATE . ONE WOULD HAVE TO BE AN MD SPECIALIST IN HEART SURGERY TO AFFORD A LEXUS WITHIN 90 DAYS OF GRADUATING COLLEGE .

obviously there's a clown in the marketing department . maybe the same clown who took a perfect car , the standard of the world , and

stuck some bicycle tires with a life on the vehicle to satisfy the college graduates who will take their rebate and buy new wheels and tires ?

mitchell rowe

sv7887 · February 2005

Hi All,

Make sure the dealer is using a Hunter RoadForce balancing machine. They are the best in the business and can balance practically anything. I bought my '05 LS in Dec but it's been on snow tires ever since..I'll have to see what it does once it's back on the normal rims..I would have prefered the 17" wheels..I don't see the need for 18" on this car, especially when the car is governed to 130 MPH!!! (Why is it that the ES goes to 143?) My older LS400's were limited to 150..

Usually the dealer is good at resolving these matters..They switched the tires in my '92 LS when I bought it because of vibration issues to Bridgestone Turanzas..Ditto with my '98 LS (To Dunlop Sp 5000's)..

As for the cash incentive..Maybe for leasing purposes? I don't of many grads even Harvard ones that could afford 35K in cash immediately after graduation..Maybe they're getting loans or leasing..

SV

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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