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Comments
Bitkahuna - About that auto review article - was the author a man? If so he must be married to the NY Times reporter who rather drive her daughters Maxima than an LS430. Don't even waste any time on it. These people discredit themselves better than we ever could discredit them with our comments. I bet Lexus wasn't advertising all that much in their publication. Now that the cars design is growing on you - when are you buying? BTW - I also see a lot of black, silver and white LS430's on the road. The pine color has also become popular and can easily be mistakemn for black and the parchment color (also developing in popularity) can easily be mistaken for silver or even white. Flint350 - your car is still unseen by my eyes except for your pix.
To the group - Is it me or do our hosts seem to be pro-Mercedes? Someone asked for a club earlier and there was no response. I remember on the S-class board someone hinted at one and there was an immediate response plus the host is always jumping in over there seemingly defending Mercedes. Check out the vvt posts over there.
Personally, I don't know much about MB's and I certainly have never seen L8_Apex defend any car over another, so I can't really speak to the rest of what you are saying about your hosts. L8_Apex and I are the Sedans Board hosts, by the way. Any other hosts posting on this board are guests, just as you are.
For those who might not know, the Owners Club is a dedicated folder where you can have as many discussions as you would like. Take a look at some of them here to get an idea of the possibilities. You are not able to create your own discussions, but Karen makes them for you - all you have to do is ask. This discussion will remain here on the Sedans board, but will be linked to the Owners Club folder as well, making it accessible from either place.
You can "subscribe" to the entire owners' folder for the LS, which makes reading all the posts very easy to do.
Let me know if you have any questions - just give me a couple of positive posts on the idea, and I'll get the ball rolling.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
How are you guys doing? I am really enjoying the LS experience thus far. I haven't been on the board much, because I cannot get excited about windshields fogging....
May have to go to LUX board II and get things stirred up!
The problem lies with airflow that is moisture laden to the point (there are other parameters that can play a significant part, but this isn't a physics lesson) that even SLIGHTLY cooling it further causes its relative humidity to rise to the point that the airflow can no longer contain, hold, the moisture it already carries. That is called the Dewpoint, the point at which "excess" mositure begins to precipitate out of the air mass, or in our case simply condense on the interior windshield surface as the moisture laden air mass closest to that surface is cooled. Just exactly like is the intent of Lexus, and almost all manufacturers, in using the cold vanes of the A/C evaporator to condense moisture out of the incoming airflow and thus dehumidify it as it enters the cabin.
A couple of things that are important that you should know.
The Lexus HVAC system does not reheat all of the airflow that has passed through the A/C evaporator and has been cooled in an effort to dehumidify it, as does most systems not designed or manufactured by Denso.
The airflow that does get reheated, and thus further "dehumidified" is routed, predominatly, to the footwell outlets. You can prove this to yourself by allowing the interior temperature to stabilize at the setpoint on a cold day and then measuring the footwell outlet temperature versus the windshield outlet temperature with the system in mixed, fllor/windshield mode.
I can only guess at the reasons for having such a serious design flaw in an automotive system, the warmer air routed to the footwell would be objectionable if felt by our upper body and face.
But, the problem. At temperatures below about 45 degrees F the likelihood that the system will be able to successfully dehumidify the incoming airflow is of quite low probability. In many regions of the country the relative humidity of cold airflow is already quite low. Automotive A/C systems, by design restriction, CANNOT cool the airflow below 32F. That's why Lexus/Denso shuts down the A/C compressor when the OAT declines below about 35F. Most other manufacturers (non-Denso)use 47F as the shutdown point.
If the incoming airflow is already below 45F, then its relative humidity must already be quite high if cooling it by only 10 to 13 degrees is to work in dehumidifying it.
AND there is an important factor here, this airflow must move reasonably SLO-w--l---y through the evaporator vanes to be cooled even to this degree.
So what happens to the relative humidity of the airflow that doesn't QUITE reach dewpoint while traveling through the evaporator? Most of it, that which doesn't travel through the reheat cycle to lower its dewpoint even further, will be routed to the windshield in the event the operator needs it defogged. Airflow already cooled to very near its dewpoint now routed to an already cold windshield.
I'm here to announce the new Lexus LS Owner's Club is now available on Edmunds.com Owner's Club board. Please stop by and introduce yourself in Meet the Members and let me know how I can help build your club.
I have linked this discussion into that folder, but it will always reside here in Sedans.
Looking forward to meeting everyone!
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
At one time the Lexus factory rep told me that what I should do is be more careful and pay more attention to the A/C "active" indicator light, and when it extinguishes that would indicate to me that the A/C compressor can no longer be used to defog or demist the windshield and I should then be prepared to use other methods, a towel maybe?
On any Lexus, when the OAT declines to about 35F, 32F for certain, the A/C compressor clutch circuit is permanantly disabled until the OAT rises again.
NO action by the driver, unsuspecting or unintentional, is required.
"Your application of warmer air to defrost the windshield only worsened the problem initially".
When the interior surface of the windshield is covered with a fine mist, fogged over, that mist will act as an insulating layer and thus warm airflow, or and by itself, will have no immediate affect on heating the windsield.
But, this is all actually about something called "vapor pressure". In order to quickly remove the condensed mosture from the surface we must find a way, literally, to "boil" it off. The way to do that, other than a handy towel, is to increase the vapor pressure, and that can be done by decreasing the relative humidity of the "surrounding" atmosphere.
There are two ways to do that, and one of them is much more readily available, and adaptable, to this circumstance. Remember how much WASTE heat is generated by an automotive engine?
The warmer a mass of air becomes, the greater is its ability to "hold" moisture. So an easy way to decrease the relative humidity of an air mass is to raise its temperature, provided of course, that additional mositure isn't added in the process of heating the air mass.
The second way is to first cool the air mass, hopefully to a level at which it reaches 100% relative humidity and the moisture then begins to condense out of the air(and onto the A/C evaporator vanes specially contructed to promote that very action).
But as this air leaves the evaporator it may have been cooled to just within a fraction of its dewpoint (this is actually a most likely circumstance if the incoming airflow is below about 45-50F)so the second part of this process is to now reheat this airflow by passing it through the heater core, all of it, for most automotive HVAC manufacturers.
Now if we have done all of this properly we have an air mass that has very little moisture content thus an atmosphere that when exposed to the surface of the windshield will create a very high vapor pressure, literally "boiling" the mist from that surface.
The fact that this air is warm or even hot is really secondary to the primary issue at hand, quickly removing the mist from the windshield surface.
But now that the windshield's insulating layer, mist, has been removed it will be a great help in keeping the mist from reforming if we heat the windshield surface itself, and keep it heated, so it no can longer drive the air mass flowing over it down to its dewpoint.
No, seriously, things that I don't understand BUG the hell out of me, and I have reached a point in my life wherein I have the time to dig in and learn about anything and everything that intrigues me. So I have spent some little time in the past ten years or so studying up on this particular subject.
and then hitting the new memory setting for myself. Maybe I missed the way around this in the book. You could simply keep the mirrors from folding in but I like having them do that particularly for those times when I park outside. Anyone find a way around this or can enlighten me on what I'm doing wrong?
On the other hand I have encountered quite a few lexus owners who have learned from personal experience that the easiest way to keep the windshield and windows from fogging over is to lower the rear windows.
flint350 - I missed that terrorist comment - thanks for noting it. It's hysterical and made me think of the Seinfeld episode with the neo-[non-permissible content removed]'s in the limousine. You know that it's desperation time when you have to go to those limits to discuss a car's handling. By the way in such a case I'd rather have the reliable car anyway. Second choice - a Ferrari but it would probably break down and the terrorist wouldn't want to get stuck with the repair bills. Did he happen to say what the terrorist was driving?? To you of course its all irrelevant - you would just fly a plane and skip right over the terrorists like in the ending of Casablanca -- "round up the usual suspects". Thanks for the laugh on that one!
The older I get, the less I realize I know and the more I accept my limitations. If everything I don't understand bugged me I'd be one cranky guy! I hope you're not totally serious about what you said.
Both our kids are rapidly approaching that point.
No, I guess I need to correct myself slightly, many things do bug me, but at my age I don't let very many of them really BUG me. The other thing is.... I am amazed at how quickly one can locate answers on the internet!
I have the ML option. I originally discovered that copies of audio CDs wouldn't play. After much discussion on this board (several messages in the 860's) we determined that the CD player will accept CDs copied onto gold colored CD-R media, but not blue. I've never had a problem with any home, auto or computer CD reader accepting one type of blank but not another. I know that two different frequency lasers are used to read original CDs and recorded CDs, but I'm not aware of any further distinction between CD-R's.
Anyone have an answer?
We are considering purchase of a 1996 LS400 (65K miles) from my in-laws. How is reliablity on his car? Is there anything in particular to look out for? They are offering to sell it to us for $21K.
Thanks.
I have a 1999 LS400 that I absolutely love. I'm not looking to get a 2001 LS430, but I may be looking to replace my 1999 LS400 with a 2002 or possibly 2003. After over 2 years of ownership, I have had absolutely no problems, it hasn't been back to the dealership once other than for routine maintanance.
I had the chance to test drive a 2001 LS430 recently at my Lexus dealer. I was very impressed with it(except for the styling). I drove a LS430 equipped with 16" tires and it definately rides & handles better and the steering is much better also. Features I'm truly impressed with. Even though they didn't have one with the Ultra Luxury package that i could drive, I did get to sit in one that was sold, the Mark Levinson stereo is beyond awesome! And the Active Cruise seems like it would be nice to have.
Only thing I didn't like was the exterior styling. I definately like the way the 7-series, the S-class and my current LS400's looks better. But the looks of the LS430 would not make me not buy one. The interior is overall more important, the Ls430 has the best interior compared to the S-class and 7-series. The current S-class probably has the worst interior of any car north of the $60,000 price plateau.
Price is $8,820 over Base Price.
Build time 4-6 Months.
They are re designing the Voice Activated Phone and the LS430 is already prewired for its use.
I visited the NY Car Show and the level of staff that Lexus had was informationally poor and they were coupled with very aloof dealer representatives. This was not a first class experience.. think Kia rather then Lexus. The only other cars that created a buzz was the new Infinity Q45 and the new Jaguar X. series.
This story will touch on the following trends:
-the gadgets in high-end vehicles from the Lexus LS 430 and Volvo S80 to Porsches and beyond
-drivers in their 40s-60s buying sports cars
-driver distraction
If you have anything to add, we'd love to hear from you. Please submit your experience to Talk to the Press and/or to jfallon@edmunds.com, including your current vehicle, daytime phone number and city and state of residence. (Your identity will be protected at your request.)
Thanks for your consideration of this opportunity to share your story!
Regards,
Jeannine Fallon
Director of Public Relations
jfallon@edmunds.com
As for styling and features: to each his own on styling (I like mine) and its priority in the purchase decision. The features are, without doubt or question, outstanding and represent a very good value when compared to similar products (such as MBenz S Class and Bimmer 7's). The decision you most likely face is Ultra vs. Custom versions. Ultra adds a bunch of back seat stuff that you might not want/need or appreciate (such as massaging seats, cooler box (a personal disappointment), memory and reclining seats and rear a/c and air purifier. Custom may take longer to get, but is about $4K cheaper. I got my Ultra bcz I was early on the wait list and didn't want to wait any longer. NOt bcz of the rear seat stuff. But, I love it all and have actually used the rear seat stuff now and then. Overall, (sorry for the length), I am ecstatic with my purchase (though I paid list price) and can only highly recommend the car. It would be difficult to make a mistake, unless the styling really bothers you. My two cents.
atomchaser: Can't comment on the price, but the car is spectacular and will be a joy to drive. Very few common problems, but you might ask if the LCD display has already been replaced (they bleed over time and run ~$500), and whether there have been any problems with the a/c system (compressors etc.; very expensive)
PR Director: I tested the LS430 w/all the bells and whistles, and ended up buying essentially a base car (with the ML) precisely because the addition of the nav system meant that everything was run through the touch screen. While I understand the Lexus version to be far superior to the MB COMAND, the plain fact is that using a touch screen necessarily means a decrease in ergonomic functionality and, to my mind, safety (I can feel for a button, but have to look at the screen). I understand that in some cars (Volvo?) the nav system is entirely independent of the HVAC, stereo and other electronic features; had that been true with the Lexus, I would probably have bought the nav.
romanarc: I too think the 7 is a better looking car from the outside, but the interior is MUCH les comfortable, the ride is MUCH less comfortable and noisier, and the functionality and reliability are not really in the same class. Also, I think a number of us on this board are starting to appreciate the exterior looks of the LS more and more; it grows on you. Bottom line, though, is that I sold my 90 LS with 125k miles, and the thing was nearly bullet-proof. The LS, in my estimation, is the safest, most reliable, most comfortable, most thoughtfully designed, most reasonably priced car in this class by a wide margin. After some reflection, I realized that if I bought the 7, it would have been so that others could admire the looks of the car I was driving; seemed a pretty silly reason to pay that kind of premium.
I never had a problem with either a 95 or the 98 LS400 and have gotten used to a perfect reliability record. I'm sure a change to the German cars will likely result in a significant drop in that category for you. Good luck whatever you do.
Nealm1 - With the audio controls on the steering wheel I almost never use the touch screen features. In fact I forget it is there. Even if you want to jump to a new cd you just hold the selection button on the steering wheel down for a longer time than you would if you wanted the next selection in the current cd.
Mirrors - anyone have any solution to my earlier post. This is really my only gripe about the car and I realize its a minor one.
You can subscribe to the whole folder if you'd like so that you don't miss anything. Also, there will always be a link to that folder at the top of this page.
Check it out and let Karen know what you'd like to see there.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
Yeah, I really do find my 1999 LS400 quite fantastic. I owned a Mercedes 420SEL before(87' model), and this the LS400 is much better for less money. My 420SEL cost $60,000 back then, I got my LS400 for alot less. I also like the new LS430 alot, the differences between my 99 and the 2001 are noticeable, everything from higher feature content, more room, to improved ride & handling is immediately noticeable.
BTW, saw a silver Lexus SC430 today parked in a parking lot near my office complex. There were about 5 or 6 people just gathered around it looking at it. on my way back from lunch I drove around the SC430. I like what Lexus has done with the SC430. Looks really sharp from every angle.
A journalist from one of the country's largest newspapers has asked us for help finding consumers who recently purchased a Lexus L430, Mercedes C class or BMW 3 series after considering a more expensive vehicle, or anyone who recently considered purchasing a luxury vehicle, but decided not to because of the economy.
If you fit this description and care to share your story, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com and/or rpopely@tribune.com with your e-mail, phone number, city and state of residence, and a brief description of your experience. The journalist promises to keep you identity hidden at your request.
Hope to hear from you soon!
Jeannine Fallon
Director of Public Relations
PLEASE NOTE: Respond by clicking on the email addresses above. Responses posted here will NOT be seen by the folks who want to hear from you. Thanks!
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
dave203 - I'm sure I can get one of my buddies to sell you their 740's. They are just about 2 years old. Actually one guy has a 30 month lease and is probably going to the LS430 around Sept. He's hoping they come out with a v-12. The other guy owns his and is afraid its going to get badly de-valued when the new model (which looks like a beauty to me) comes out. Both guys love the cars but the reliability has been pitiful. Be careful.
The way I read it is that the reporter has some specific issues in mind to write about and is just looking for folks who can speak to what he or she is looking for.
Those are just my thoughts - feel free to give your feedback to Edmunds.com's PR director, Jeannine Fallon, at jfallon@edmunds.com.
I'm just the messenger! :-)
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
Sounds like Jeannine needs to test drive an LS430 to see for herself...and it is "LS" 430, Jeannine...not "L". I would be very careful responding to a newspaper journalist (Chicago Tribune?) that might possibly put the LS in the same class as the C and 3 series. Someone needs to do some research.
Just keeping you on your toes and defending the best auto on the planet.
Rolloman
Houston
I'm surprised you let this one get by you.
I bought a Black/Black Nav/Lev 430 in February after I couldn't find the same in an Ultra. (I don't understand Lexus' lack of flexibility.) Anyway, one of the features I most wanted was the integrated Nav/Lexus Link/integrated phone option.
At the time I took delivery, my dealer informed me that the Sprint PCS phone was discontinued because of problems and that a re-tool was in the immediate future. I continue to check with my dealer (Lexus of Sacramento). Unfortunately, they have no information on an upgrade or solution for existing owners.
This puzzles and frustrates me about an otherwise perfect car. Yesterday, I was riding in my business partners' new Mercedes AMG 55 and his integrated navigation/phone system seemed to work just fine. I just read the new Infiniti Q45 review that said their system worked fine. All of these systems are based on GM's OnStar platform, so what gives? The Lexus website is useless and gives no information updates of any detail.
Does anyone know what options are available or on the horizon for existing owner? One of the major conveniences I was looking forward to with the car was hands free phone use.
Thanks,
Morpheis@aol.com
The brochure from Lexus advertises that the Navigation/Mark Levinson package includes 11-speakers and 240W of power. I went to several Lexus dealers and noticed that the sticker on the car says that the Mark Levinson includes 7 speakers. It does not say anything about 240W or power ? Does anyone know what's the story with this Mark Levinson stereo ? THanks.
Dave.
On the other hand, I just enjoy finding new little things in my LS that I never knew about before. It still happens after nearly 3 months with the car. I won't admit just how long it was before I found the little sun shade above the rear view mirror, or that the pax seat has lumbar adjust. And nearly every day the Nav system shows me something new. But, I must admit, that damn phone issue is a sore spot for me too. It is mind boggling to think they screwed it up so badly in the first place and then, can't seem to solve it or keep us informed as to any progress.
I was asked to relay a message and I did so. I thought she meant "LS 430" but perhaps she did not. I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, you are just saying them to the wrong person in the wrong place. :-)
Thanks!
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
One (and maybe the only) "bell and whistle" the MB S-class had that Lexus didn't was a ring around the speedometer that was partially illuminated to the point that showed the speed setting of the cruise control. I thought that was a good idea. Of course the LS had about two dozen other things that the MB didn't.
I can explain the "Go To" function for you. The post numbers you see in the discussion are actually "relative" post numbers. The post you addressed to me is #994 right now, which means 994 posts exist in this discussion through that one. If a post prior to #994 gets deleted since you posted that one, your post will become #993.
However, if you put your mouse cursor on the "994" and look at the display at the bottom of your browser, you will see a link that ends with "/1025" - that means that your post #994 is actually the 1,025th post that has been made in this discussion. That is the "actual" post number.
The "Go To" function uses "actual" post numbers, not "relative" numbers. Why use the actual numbers instead of the relative numbers? I have no idea! :-)
I have made earlier requests for "Lexus" to be added to the global dictionary and I will do so again. (You do realize that you can add it to your own dictionary? I agree, though, it shouldn't be necessary.) Also, on Friday I asked for "LS 430" to be added to the dropdown choice in the profile.
All of this said, the best place for this kind of conversation is in the New Software! Your Questions Answered discussion over on our News & Views Board, but I am happy to help in any way that I can.
I hope this does help.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
Am I the only one with with this idea as I have not seen this subject on this board? I am a convert from MB & did this to my previous E class with a much improved appearence.
Would appreciate any input on this subject including thoughts on both 17" wheels & tires.
By the way just completed a 300 mi. freeway trip @ 70mph average & got 28mpg. Only 1300 mi on the car. Unbelievable!
I think this and my mirror thing - do you notice it given your wife drives the car - are the type of problems you complain about with a Lexus.
By the way if your wife is in search of the cash -go to dow jones or hoovers on-line call up TM and locate Toyota's Balance Sheet and you'll find most of it in there Cash line along with, I'm sure by now about $15 bln. more.
I would have liked that tire pressure indicator and I do like Infiniti's camera and run flat tires (BMW has them also). These will be nice add-ons for next year I'm sure. They have to put that camera in the SUV's as it is almost impossible to see behind you when you back out of a parking space.
Finally some summer weather here.
;->
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
Same thing on my 2000 GS300, except BBS RX's.