Volvo S60

volvomax · April 2004

Will be built. Volvo is already accepting deposits for 2005 models for OSD.
No major changes planned.

jay_c · April 2004

FWIW - A buddy just sold his S60R back to the dealership yesterday; got 28k for it with 22,000 miles on it (paid $40.5k). Loved the car, but Michigan road caused six (yes, 6) tires to blow out in just 1 year -- and three of those were after putting on aftermarket rims and beefier winter tires -- all Volvo approved. He had the 18" wheel package and the Brembos wouldn't allow anything smaller to go on in their place. Just a word to the wise if you live in a pothole state. This is not a knock on the R. He loved the car, but Michigan has the worst roads in the nation.

qbrozen · April 2004

I don't know, call me crazy, but I think that's a silly reason to take a $12K hit in depreciation. If that was the problem, than change out the brake system for a smaller setup and get 16s or 17s on there. It would have been FAR cheaper. I'm sure any T5 owner would have been more than happy to do an even swap of their rotors and calipers and probably do the labor for free.

mike2 · April 2004

I leased 3 Volvo's, all 02, S40, S60 and the S80. The S60 is the worst.. The latest problem was that the key would not turn. Car had to be towed, after 1 week the dealership finally received and replaced the cylinder. Now the other problem is that the windows will not go down at times.

The other on going problem has been the cold start, and continues stalling. The transmission continues to slip, and when at a full stop, it lunges into gear. The dealership has stated they down loaded a fix for these problems, but the issues are still the same. I have 30,000 miles on it, and 19 months to go on the lease. If I could get out of this one today, I would.

The other cars have been relatively problem free. The S40 lost one of the door guards, and the S80 battery had to be replaced at 15,000 miles. Why is the S60 so problematic???

It is really a shame that this car turned out the way it did. I am not going back to Volvo for my next car.

jay_c · April 2004

The money wasn't the issue for him; its being stranded on the freeway for 2+ hours when you have a meeting to be at and a tire blows. Clients get pissed and you look unreliable even with the best of excuses and receipts to prove it. He looks at is as having an expensive 1 yr lease at $1,000 a month. Of course he spent probably $2500 or so on replacement tires and the winter rims...

He also explored the possibility of swapping things out and Volvo was adamantly against it. They said everything on the car is calibrated to work together, the ABS and ECM modules are tired to the brembo sensors, etc.

mike2 · April 2004

Hi, I just found this website and I am gathering information for my case against Volvo re: Lemon Law.

I have had many, many problems with my 2002 S60. The latest problem was that the key would not turn. Car had to be towed, after 1 week the dealership finally received and replaced the cylinder. Now the other problem is that the windows will not go down at times.

The other on going problem has been the cold start, and continues stalling. The transmission continues to slip, and when at a full stop, it lunges into gear. The dealership has stated they downloaded a fix, still the same. I have 30,000 miles on it, and 19 months to go on the lease. If I could get out of this one today, I would.

The other cars have been relatively problem free. The s40 lost on of the door guards, and the s80 battery had to be replaced at 15,000 miles.

It is really a shame that this car turned out the way it did. I am not going back to Volvo for my next car.
st found this website and wish I had found it sooner.. Where do I begin to tell you about my problems... I have an S60 2002, what a LEMON... I have now 30K miles and the car has been to the dealership for service many, many times.

The cold start and stalling, trasmission continues to slip,

shipo · April 2004

"He had the 18" wheel package and the Brembos wouldn't allow anything smaller to go on in their place."

Maybe I'm missing something, however, I was under the impression that the S60R came with the same Brembo brakes regardless of whether the buyer checked the 18" wheel size option box or not. Given that the standard wheels on that car are 17x8 shod with 235/45 R17 tires (the same size wheels and tires as on my 530i, which I drove in and around NYC (easily as many pot holes as Michigan) before moving to New Hampshire in late 2002), I'm having a difficult time believing that every option had been explored before he took his 12K hit. Ouch!

Best Regards,
Shipo

qbrozen · April 2004

And that's just it. There are many options that could have cured the problem. But, hey, if someone wants to throw away that kind of money, so be it.

Where did he trade it in? His loss could be my gain.

j/k

volvomax · April 2004

The standard wheel is the 17.
I think your friend just drives like a maniac.
Had he ever had a car w/ low profile tires before?
I ask because there are plenty of Porsches, beemers, Bezes, even Mustangs and Camaro's in Michigan and I'm sure they aren't all blowing out tires.

jay_c · April 2004

Replying to various posts:
1) He's far from a maniac; all of these occurred on Metro Detroit freeways.
2) Volvo dealer specifically said 17" rims would not fit after you check the 18" option box. (Doesn't really matter; I had 17" Arakis rims on my S80 T-6 and blew out two sidewalls a year).
3) The car is at Sesi Volvo in Ann Arbor, MI. Call them. Maybe they'll make you a deal. Its a dark blue metallic with a black interior. It was one of the first R's delivered.
4) Around here there are plenty of people with low profiles who blow their sidewalls out -- all makes. Just not at the rate of 6 per year. To me, that indicates a possible suspension problem on how the R is calibrated.

qbrozen · April 2004

or just dumb luck.
My wife gets at least 2 flats a year while I have gotten only 1 in the past 12 years (great! now I'm doomed for saying anything about it!).

ejk · April 2004

Out on the open highway the Lexus ES300 is very
unstable, the slightest wind causes the car to move from side to side. Never had a car move as much as the ES300.

tmart · April 2004

is for the Volvo S60, not the Lexus ES300. You're more likely to get responses posting in the Sedan section.

steves1220 · May 2004

If you are trying to use your state's lemon law now, I'm afraid you may be SOL. At 30,000 miles on a MY 2002 - I don't know of a state that allows this length of time and mileage for lemon law. What state do you live? In addition, lemon laws normally deal with problems that impact safety or large deviations from fair market value, not necessarily annoying ones such as your windows. It seems as if your best (or only) bet in dealing with the problems is your warranty.

If your dealer is not taking care of the problems, you may want to make a relatively small investment to have an independent mechanic LOOK at your problems. In this way, you could go back to the dealer armed with facts on specific mechanical problems - ones that can't be fixed with VADIS updates.

You can also try documenting your issues in a letter to VCNA Customer Service. But, this may also be an exercise in futility as they are pretty much a worthless entity (Customer Service, that is).

By the way, our S60 may also finally chase us away from Volvo for good - it has been a very disappointing car and such a huge departure from expectations for a Volvo sedan.

karthick · May 2004

He sold it for 28k!! Damn.. wish i could have got my hands on that car directly from him..

phils60 · May 2004

20k Miles with no flaws. Runs like a dream. Have beat the heck out of it. What is the tire/wheel problem people keep speaking of? I have 45 series Perrelli and have no problems at all. Live in Chattanooga TN with lots of pot holes and rocks. This is one heck of a good auto.

volvodude1 · May 2004

I just got back from Europe a few days ago taking delivery of a 2004 S60R. I was even lucky enough to get it into Germany and experience the silky smooth Autobahn for a few hundred miles. Unfortunately I was restricted to 1200 miles at 4000 rpm by Volvo to break in, but it was enough to get up to at least a cruise of 110 mph. I highly recommend the program to anyone that is even slightly thinking about it. The whole experience was totally worth it!! I would be willing to talk to anyone vaguely interested in really how this whole things works out and what is fact and fiction. 45 days and counting before my S60R arrives in the states.

pat · May 2004

A post (or posts) explaining the ED process would be most welcome. I'm sure it will be helpful to folks who read it now and those who read it in the future.

Congrats on your new S60R!

volvomax · May 2004

Volvo, Mercedes, BMW and SAAB have programs.
Volvo's is the one that I am familiar with of course.

Volvo will offer 2 roundtrip tickets, plus one night's hotel stay in Gothenburg Sweden.
You can take a car out of their pipeline, or they will build to suit. Certain cars like the S60R and XC90's are available in limited quantities.
Shipping,customs duties and marine insurance are included in the sale price which is generally 8% below US MSRP.

volvodude1 · May 2004

The program is quite amazing. The standard program of course is 2 roundtrip tickets, 15 days of insurance (full coverage), one night in the Radisson SAS in Goteborg, free shipping out of Bremerhaven and Goteborg, and of course an all day tour with a swedish meatball lunch (it was quite good actaully). There are other programs however and it seems as though depending on the season, there are other alluring packages available. I just missed the winter package when I signed up for the program and i think it offered more nights in Sweden or something. Anyways, here are some details to consider,
1. if you take the standard package, if interested, Volvo has a deal with SAS to offer you an upgrade on your domestic flights to Sweden. My wife and I did economy plus (business class) out to Goteborg and business class (first class) back to the states for a fixed cost of $850 per person. It is $1250 per person if I had business class to and from. This deal is good as long as there are seats available and you don't have to fly in and out of Goteborg. We flew into Gothenburg (stopping in Coppenhagen) and departed from Paris. Business class on SAS is just flipping amazing.

2. All car prices for Euro delivery are listed on Volvo's website. There are no surpises if you sign up as to what your car is going to cost

3. After you and your dealer determines allocation availablity of your car, financing needs to completed 30 days before you depart to Europe.

4. Shipping out of Goteborg is free as well as Bremerhaven. We shipped out of Paris and the drop off is at Charles De Gaulle. The cost was 255 euro CASH. This caught us off guard a little so be sure that you are prepared if you ship out of a location that requires payment.

5. The tour is as follows, 9am they pick you up from the hotel, you get there around 9:30am or so and begin your paperwork. Our car showed around 10:30am or so and you have a chance to test drive the car around the facility to allow for questions and or if there is any noticable problems that needs to be addressed. 11:30am lunch was served until 1:00pm when the tour starts. The tour runs to about 2:30pm where they then bring you back to the presentation area and from there, you are on your own with your new car.

6. One detail too, your car NEEDS to be washed before you drop off your vehicle for delivery. There is a customs requirement to prevent bugs stuck to your car from entering back into the states.

7. At the pick up location at volvo, there is a nice reception area. You have access to the internet if you need it, phone access (we made some international calls from there), beverages, mail a volvo postage card for you back to your family, etc. Very accomidating.

8. You are covered vehicle wise in all major euro countries. They give you a list of phone numbers to call in any country that you are in if you have a mechanical problem with your car where it requires attention.

9. People in Sweden are very very nice.

10. Driving on the Autobahn at 120 mph legally for miles is a mind bending experience.

cbcrisp · May 2004

Does everyone use premium gas in Volvo (S60?) What would happen to the car's inner workings if reg. unleaded gas was used?

mmmm8 · May 2004

Hi volvodude1,
I will pick up a 2005 S60R with the Formula 1 GP promotion in Aug.
Got couple questions for the Euro Delivery:
1) The break-in period. My local dealer said nowadays cars don't require break-in. Does Volvo recommend or require doing that? I'm just curious. The autobahn experience definitely excite me. But kind of worry about the break-in. Definitely won't push it to the limit. But 100+ mph, will it be harmful to the new car even short period of time?
2) Does the drop off location provide car wash service with or without cost? If not, what about the hotel then?
3) Do you get the navigation system? If yes, does it helpful?
Thanks. Can't wait for the day to come :-)

volvomax · May 2004

Try not to redline the engine for the first 1,000 miles or so.
high speed cruising on the Autobahn is ok, just remember to let the turbo cool before you shut off the engine after a high speed run.

volvodude1 · May 2004

Hey there. Yes, with the S60R I was concerned about that as well since I was going out to Germany on the Autobahn. I really wanted to drop the hammer on the car and take it as far as I could, but was concerned about the break in as well. I had two GREAT pieces of feedback while on the trip on this topic.

1)
1. At the Goteborg airport I ran into a large group of Volvo techinicans from around the US invited to a conference sponsored by Volvo called the Vista awards program. Volvo awarded their best mechanics and flew them to Sweden for a great conference. I was lucky enough to talk to a few of these guys for a little bit asking this exact question. I posed the question about the break-in period based on the S60R. Out of the 4 mechanics that I talked to, they all concurred that it is a debateable topic. The key they all said however, is how you rev the car. Gradual revs and not quick constant stabbing revs at high RPMs will help to ensure proper break-in for the first 800 miles or so.

2. At the delivery center, I talked to 3 different people. They all recommended very strongly for the S60R (I am not sure if this is the same for the other vehicles), not more than 4000 RPMs for the first 1200 miles.

So taking it to the extreme, I just followed what both recommendation which were given to me. Smooth revs up to 4000 RPMs for the first 1200 miles. At 4000 RPMs in 5th gear (I had the geartronic) the S60R is at 110 MPH. I took my vehicle to 125 at 5000 RPM for a few seconds and backed off. The car did seem to loosen up quite a bit after 1200 miles. At drop off for me and my wife, I ended up putting on 2197 miles at the end of my trip.

2) Well for us, the drop off location was at the Charles De Gaulle Airport in Paris. What we found out was in Europe, there is a large chain of Petrol stations named "Total." Most of those stations have drive through car washes. I just used that and it was sufficient. I think a full wash cost me 18 euro I think. I couldn't really read the yellow pages or anything to find a detailer, so a basic wash was all the shipper required.

3) I decied not to buy the navigation system. I didn't like the way it functioned nor the display in the middle of the dash (plus too it was pretty spendy). I did however find and put together a FANTASTIC solution using my HP iPAQ and a bluetooth GPS receiver. I HIGHLY recommend a GPS solution for anyone doing a long trip through Europe. It saved both my wife and I from tearing into each other trying to navigate the complex road structures in the city and in the country sides using the traditional map method.. I would not have made it easliy without GPS especially getting out and around the cities and between countries. Let me know if you are interested in my setup. I did quite a bit of research on this prior to going into my trip and the solution that I put together worked flawlessly over 2200 miles in 2 weeks and 6 countries.

You will LOVE the program. I am going to be doing this again in the near future. I now have a 2004 S60R (well it will arrive in July) and a 1999 V70 AWD. Probably in a few years we will trade in our V70 for something new and take it in Sweden. I am a firm believer in the program.

volvodude1 · May 2004

One piece of information which I forgot to add, those of you who are close to taking a Euro Delivery from Volvo or have just done it, there is a way of tracking the delivery of your vehicle (I am watching my S60R now. I don't know if this is different for other models). The URL is

http://www.2wglobal.com/www/WEP/Toolbox/Appl/CargoTracking/index.- - jsp

If you click on Track by Cargo and choose Auto, your Cargo ID is your VIN. Once it gets loaded onto the ship, it is just like watching a UPS package. It is very comforting seeing this information.

lev_berkovich · May 2004

I am taking my second OS delivery in June and I will drop my XC90 in Paris. How is the drop-off service at the Charles De Gaulle Airport? I think I have used the same guys dropping-off the "short-term leased" Renault in my last European trip 3 years ago. It looked like a pretty shady operation back then. What was your impression of them? How easy/difficult it was to schedule the drop-off?

volvodude1 · May 2004

Hi there. Hey, excellent. That is GREAT that you are going on your second delivery!! You will probably be dropping off with the exact company and area where I dropped off my S60. The drop off was very easy actually. At the Volvo Delivery Center they are going to give you a map and tell you that you need to call them to schedule your drop off time. Outside of them mis-informing me of a national holiday having me to shift my drop off schedule a little, it worked like a charm. Scheduling worked out just fine. You can even do it over email if you want as well. That actually worked better for us just to be sure there were no communication problems. Just to get you ahead of the game (I have the paperwork with me now), the company that you will be dealing with is TT Car Transit (Roissy Charles De Gaulle). Their phone number is +33(01)48623753 fax:+33(01)48621973 email:info@ttroissy.com. They are located in front of Terminal 3 (Aerogare 3) at Charles De Gaulle. If you have specifics like cost, you can email them. They responded to me pretty good to email during the times I contacted them. They do however require CASH.. Make sure you have euro cash on hand. Our S60 was 255 euro. I think the XC90 is a little more according to the guy that was helping us.

  Once you get your car there and get someone to help, the gentelemen who helped us (skinny, midage, balding guy) was really nice and had a quirky sense of humor. He had good english as well and didn't carry some of the english snobbyness which we experienced in downtown Paris. He knew the paper work which was needed and got us out of there pretty quickly assisting us to the nearest RER to get back to downtown Paris where we were staying.

  What was nice about Charles De Gaulle, there is a Total gas station just on the outskirts coming into Charles De Gaulle which has a drive through car wash. I don't think you can miss it really. I think we paid 18 euro for a 14 credit gas card and had our car washed there just before dropping it off. Make sure you get this done (which is mandatory) or else it will delay your administrative work.

  My wife and I were a little concerend about the validity of the service as well. Their office is a small portable office thing in a parking lot surrounded by Peugots and such (I think they rent them for euro driving). We were a little worried at first, then as we were walking out with the gentelmen that assited us, a beautiful BMW 330 coupe drove in a he pointed out, "there is another one." I felt a little better then. But the good thing is I do see my car on the boat headed to California. So I guess it did work. He did explain to me how the process worked and ensured me that my car would be trucked to the shipping point and not driven by a young floozy kid. I guess we will see because he was quite congnicent of the milage we had on the car as well as the condition as well. I think they are quite ok in my books. i guess the tell tale sign is when we receive the car.

markjhawk · May 2004

How many others out there are experiencing problems with an exhaust backfire during gear changes with their S60R's. I have the 6 Speed. Love the car and since I currently live in Germany it loves the Autobahn. However, the exhaust backfire is driving me crazy. Lets just say there is something of a language barrier between me and the local dealership.

Other annoyances on a $40K car...the Brembo's squeak...a lot. I will attribute that to the price you pay for awesome brakes.

However the repeated check engine lights I have experienced...really bother me. I will get the car back to the States next month and will get the opportunity to discuss my displeasure in English. The German Volvo dealer resets the light and sends me on my way. It seems to be tied in some way to the gas tank as I frequently get a gas cap loose/open message shortly before it comes on. Of course the gas cap is on tight every time.

Due to the military sales program here there are a ton of S60R's around...at least 20. Most of the other owners I have talked to have had few problems (other than the Brembo's).

Anyone else out there feeling my pain. Volvomax, any of these problems ringing a bell...have solutions???

volvomax · May 2004

Is normal.
That is to say it is the byproduct of a high output forced induction engine doing its thing.
Actually on some racing turbo cars(like Porsches) you can see flames shooting out the exhaust when the driver lifts off the throttle. Pretty Cool.
However, I can understand your dismay if your not used to it. I don't believe that there is any way to keep it from happening.
As for the Brembos, they do squeal from time to time. Best remedy is once a week, take a high pressure hose and blast out the brake calipers. Watch the dust come pouring out!
As for the gas tank, probably a software glitch.
I also own an S60R, mine does the backfire(actually its more of a pop). If you like feel free to email me and I can refer you to another site that can give you more answers, as Edmunds won't allow references to other sites here.

cbcrisp · June 2004

Does using premium gas grades help the longevity of the Volvo S60 engine? Doesn't Volvo hold the record for miles on 1 engine? Is the type gas used part of the reason, or is premium gas unnecessary. The manual says 87-91 octane.

volvomax · June 2004

doubtless the right grade of gas will enhance engine performance and longevity.
The manual says 91 octane is the preferred grade.
The engine can and will run on lesser grades. It just won't be as powerful or efficent.
My opinion: You just spent alot of $$ on your Volvo, pay a few more cents a gallon and treat it right.

mikepro · June 2004

I just took delivery of my S60 2.5T (premium + touring + climate, platinum green metallic) (wish I could afford the S60R, maybe some day...). I love the car by the way, nice performance and very comfortable. Just cruises down the highway and can surprise you with the fact that you are cruising at 85.

Anyways, I was reading the manual and noticed it mentions letting your car idle for several minutes after extended periods of high speed driving, and not to rev it just before shutting it off. The reasoning was to allow the turbo to cool down and avoid heat damage to the vanes.

I've never had a turbo before and am wondering how concerned I should be about this. My typical commute is about 35 miles on the highway at around 75 mph, followed by approx 2 mile drive through slightly stop and go traffic to my house (all under 35 mph). Is this enough time to let the turbo cool down? I currently try to let it idle for around 30 seconds before shutting it off. Should I let it idle longer? That is pretty inconvenient obviously, and I'm wondering how concerned I should be. Thanks.

volvomax · June 2004

really doesn't apply to you.
Volvo's rule of thumb is extended(2+ hours) high speed travel, followed by a sudden stop.
For example, your traveling on the interstate and you pull off for gas. Then let the car idle for a couple of minutes.

woody027 · June 2004

trip meter, I just posted with Karen about a disturbing thing thing that happen to me coming home from work. While I was driving home I check the message center and did a double take when I notice that the trip meter reset itself. Have you ever heard of this happening? I know that I didn't hit the reset control on the stalk. Any thoughts?
Dennis

poeti18 · June 2004

Woody027, it happened to me once ( reset itself at 99.9 instead of going to 100). I believe it happened to others, also. However, I was told that there is a Volvo software upgrade available addressing this problem. So just mention it to your dealer.

lev_berkovich · June 2004

Thanks a lot for the info. Now I remember that I did use that drop-off location to return the Renault. They were very accommodating and efficient.

I am so looking forward to the trip. We are going to cross 7 countries - Sweden, Germany, Czech Republic, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, France in three weeks.

I will keep you posted when we come back.

volvodude1 · June 2004

Wow that is fantastic. Please do let us know how the trip went. We drove from Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, Monaco, then Paris. Our S60 did a great job considering the distance and speed we traveled. What a trip it was. Yours sounds equally as great. Have a WONDERFUL time!

woody027 · June 2004

Thanks for the heads up, other then that the car has been fantastic.

qbrozen · June 2004

you can check out volvospeed.com, vptuning.com, and swedespeed.com.
biggest complaint I've taken note of is the lack of power in the automatic models.

pat · June 2004

Rather than posting your email address, it would be wiser to make it public in your profile - that way the spam bots can't get it, but folks who are logged in can.

You might want to delete your message and repost ...

rqc · June 2004

"rqc, did you drain the oil from the engine when you took delivery of the car and replace the oil with non-synthetic? From the factory, the car comes with synthetic."

No, I mean I didn't switch to Mobil 1 until then. I used the oil that came in the car until then. From what I've read here, the factory oil is a Castrol synthetic blend.

rentschl · June 2004

Guys,

I deleted the original version f this message and reposted it here per Steve's advice.

My wife's got the hots for an S60R and I'm trying to dig up all the dirt on what issues people are seeing out there. I tried to get Max's E-mail address but it came up "private". I'm looking for any info, including other useful sites.

My E-mail address is available in my profile if you want to E-mail me.

Thanks,
Eric Rentschler

lvboy1980 · June 2004

Does anyone here know when the S60 will be refreshed? What about redesigned? I heard that when the S60 is refreshed that the T-5 will sport a more powerful engine...anyone know about this? I would love to become a Volvo owner when my VW Jetta lease is up. Thanks!

rqc · June 2004

It's refreshed in 2005 models (available October 2004) and orders for 2005 can be placed now. Not sure when the complete redesign is coming. I would have to guess it might be the 2006 or 2007 model year.

volvomax · June 2004

Eric,
my email is now on my profile, feel free to email me.

The R recieves an update for 2005 along w/ the other S60 models. The S60 2.4 is discontinued except for fleet orders. The T5 goes to 257 hp, up from 247.
4C is available on all S60's, but without the advanced setting. That is reserved for the R.

R update is cosmetic, new rear bumper, body colred moldings and new center console.

Mechanically, the R will not change for at least a couple of years. The next R will probably have the new I6 twin turbo @ 350+ hp.

jrosasmc · June 2004

Correct me if I'm wrong, Volvomax, but didn't Volvo change the alloy wheel design on the base S60 2.4 for the 2003 model year, as well as add some features as standard equipment?

Whoa, they're discontinuing the 2.4 model for 2005? Will this mean that the V70 2.4 will also be for fleet orders only?

I got to drive my best friend's dad's '03 S60 2.4T not too long ago. Great car.

volvomax · June 2004

Wheels get changed almost every year.
In fact they are changing again for 2005.

The V70 2.4 will continue for 2005. Only the S60 2.4 will be dropped. Can't blame them, the S40 is more car IMHO.

jrosasmc · June 2004

So I assume that Volvo North America will let it be known to the public that they plan to cancel the S60 2.4?

mikepro · June 2004

You drove an '03 2.4T. He is talking about the naturally aspirated '04 2.4L. In '04 the S60 got the 2.5T, which seems to be persisting. Something like 40hp more than the base S60 2.4L

I would have liked to have the 4C on my '04 2.5T. :-(

mikepro · June 2004

Do you guys really follow the 7500 mile service interval? I'm used to changing my oil around 4-5000 miles. 7500 seems like an awfully long time, especially for the first oil change. I'm thinking I might get my first one at about half of that.

Volvo S60

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