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Volvo S60

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Comments

  • linus66linus66 Member Posts: 9
    All- wanted to see if anyone has input of value on a quote I have gotten for an 04 which I would like to pull the trigger on. Here are the details
    S60 2.5T AWD
    Titanium/Graph
    SPORT PAC
    PREMIUM PAC
    BI XEON
    $36,710.00 MSRP
    $34,461.00 COST
    $(4,500.00) CASH BACK/Discounts
    $29,500.00

    I feel this is a strong deal- but wanted to know if anyone has seen better
    Thanks
  • dakisdakis Member Posts: 1
    I purchased my '04 S60R four months ago and I am enjoying every mile of it. The only issue I have with it is the terrible turning radius. I was warned about it from several people before I purchased the vehicle, but after 4 months it has become a noticeable annoyance. I am not overly technical with regard to cars, but why is it that the turning radius is so poor?

    I am still in love with this car and believe it is one of the best valued deal for a 300hp fully equipped car.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    The S60R turning circle is positively bloated. The turning circle basically comes down to suspension geometry. I have a Yukon Denali which has a 38.3 foot curb-to-curb turning circle on a 116 inch wheelbase. If memory serves, the S60R has a 42 foot turning circle on a 107 inch wheelbase. For a counterpoint, the second generation S40 has a 34.9 foot turning circle on a 103.9 inch wheelbase. It really is unfortunate that Volvo designed the suspension geometry on the S60R such that it requires 42 feet for a turning circle.
  • larscalarsca Member Posts: 60
    Here's what I observed and heard from the commentators throughout five seasons of watching BTCC racing on TV. When talking about Audi, they kept referring to the fact that the four wheel drive system allowed them to brake later BEFORE the corner.

    I never thought about it much, just assumed they knew what they were talking about.

    But it makes absolutely no sense, now that I think about it, that a 4x4 or AWD car would somehow be more stable or be able to brake better than a RWD or FWD.

    If someone on this board is into racing, please feel free to explain.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Your stuffing a wide wheel/tire combo into a small wheel well. The wheels can't turn far enough.

    They should have flared the fenders on the R.
    The new S40 has a much better wheel well setup.
  • calberrycalberry Member Posts: 1
    I just purchased a S60R demo with about 10500KM, I've owned it about a month and have noticed a problem when I make turns either left or right at low speeds, in that there is a bit of vibration and some noise. I'm wondering is this normal for an AWD, with DSTC or is there a real problem. Also how have other owners with the 5 spd auto managed to get max acceleration off the line (ie Sport mode or manual sifting or any other tips).

    Thanks for any comments.
  • jeffp1jeffp1 Member Posts: 7
    Did you have to negotiate much to get the discount (I assume it was negotiated since I didn't see any incentives from Volvo)?
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    I would check the level of the oil in the power steering system. It sounds very typical for the power steering fluid is getting low.

    Not a biggy, but needs to be checked.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Or, the AWD differential fluid needs to be replaced.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Max acceleration is achieved with transmission in Sport mode. With brake engaged, get revs up to around 1,500 (load the torque converter - torque converter stall speed is around 1,800 rpm). When the light changes, get the car moving with the revs up to around 2,500 before punching it. You should also turn off DSTC.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Max, I think that the turning radius on the R is due to the adjustable suspension - the S60AWD (which doesn't have the 4C option) has a 39 foot turning circle.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Maybe the brake rotors on the Audi were larger (greater brake torque, which yields shorter stopping distances)? The bottom line is that you have to do your braking BEFORE you enter the turn.
  • grantchstrgrantchstr Member Posts: 371
    The 4 year lease (@369/mnth) on my S60 (regular - not the T or 4WD) is coming up and I could buy it at $15950 (plus I guess it would be prudent to buy a 4 year extended warranty at $2,000?).
    This seems a reasonable option as its only got around 38,000 on the clock. However for that kind of money I would have enough to cover payments on a lease for about four years on a new S60 or maybe a new S40.
    Observations? Is the S60 going to be reliable in years 5-8, or more important beyond that? I dont think there are too many cars older than mine but there will be many with more mileage, so reliabilty experience on the S60 would be greatly appreciated?

    PS: I had kept my prior Volvo, a 760 Turbo for 16 years with only the Turbo being a major cost item (which is why I didnt get the S60 Tutbo!). The 760 seemed to be a more "solid" car than the S60 as a "keeper".
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    I don't believe that the adjustable suspension has anything to do with it. The S60 AWD stock tire is narrower than the R tire.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    If the payments on the new one are the same or close to the same I'd go new.
  • jeffp1jeffp1 Member Posts: 7
    Does anyone know of any incentives? There are none listed on Edmunds, but yet while test driving a S60 last night, the salesman mentioned the premium package is free and there may be other things.
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    Grant, In my humble opinion if you have a 2001 basic S60 it is not worth anywhere near 16,000 + 2,000 warranty. A new 2004 no frills S60 has an MSRP of 26,960. My local dealer here in Chattanooga, TN has all S60's with the Volvo 4,500 discount plus 2,000 dealer discount. So you can ride a new one for about 20,500 or keep your old one for about 18,000.

    If you really want to keep your Volvo forget about residual. Whoever you're dealing with does not want the car back. Best offer I would make is 12,000 and forget about the warranty.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    The decision to buy at the end of the lease is a personal decision. What has been the repair history on the present car? If you go with the extended warranty, you will definitely have a security blanket for another 4 years. From a financial perspective, I would imagine that buying the car makes more sense. That way, you own the car free and clear. With another lease, you will not own the car at the end of the new lease term. Further, it would appear that your present car has been depreciated by the lease more than your actual driving; so, if you buy the car, you are getting a benefit in the form of a lower acquisition cost.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Max, don't know if you can attribute the larger turning circle on the R to wheel width. BMW does not publish a different turning circle for the 330i with Performance Package (and the Performance Package adds 1 inch on the front and 1.5 inch on the rear).
  • linus66linus66 Member Posts: 9
    Here is what I am seeing- Free Premium pkg- $2500 dealer and a $500 adjustment applied to what they consider A-Plan. The A Plan item is confusing, but I have gotten it from one dealer and all others have honored it. This nets out to about $5500 under invoice- and I have seen same for the 2004 S60, S80 and XC70 from there it is up to you . Good luck
  • jeffp1jeffp1 Member Posts: 7
    OK, I am a little confused about the A-Plan thing. Is Volvo providing funds to the dealer to do this? Is it something I need to negotiate? The salesperson was not very upfront about it. Thanks.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Is for Ford employees.
    Basically, your buying the car at invoice minus the Dealer incentives.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    The thing you need to consider is that the steering stops are larger in order to insure that the wider tires on the R don't rub the wheel wells. Remove the stops, or put in smaller ones and you'll get a better turing radius along with rubbing the tires into the wheel well.
  • s60 2.4s60 2.4 Member Posts: 24
    I recently purchased a 2004 2.4 a few weeks ago. Very Satisfied and what a wonderful auto. I am running 91 as Volvo recommends. As for the break in I have not redlined. Just getting less economy as it is expected being new auto. Was wondering when I should notice an improvement.
  • grantchstrgrantchstr Member Posts: 371
    Thanks for both your replies - opposite views! The car has had zero problems, a great car. And I guess the mileage is comparitively low. In terms of price I recall paying $30,000 for it - it has a bunch of options which pushed it above the basic cost (my description of it as basic was to distinguish it from the Turbo or R version). According to Edmunds, the $15,950 number is close to its value. So now I am confused.

    If the S60 was going to be as good as the old 240 after 8 years it would be OK to keep it I guess, but I think that the old way of making cars is long gone, just my thought.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    In terms of the "old way" of building cars, I don't know if I would wax nostalgic. Here are some considerations about the new way of building cars:

    1. Corrosion resistance. The older way of building cars relied on application of many coats of paint, which increased the weight of the car and reduced the gas mileage and drivability of the car. The new way relies on much greater use of galvanized steel. When did the 240 ever come with an 8 year corrosion warranty?

    2. Construction of the car. Today's S60 makes extensive use of Boron alloy steel, which makes the car much stronger yet, lighter because a thinner guage of steel can be used to get a stronger structure while achieving better mileage and drivability.

    3. Safety improvements. Technology marches on. While the 240 was a benchmark for safety in its day, the S60 has significant safety advances. I am referring to both technological advances such as WHIPS and DSTC, as well as a much stronger yet passively safer body frame.

    I could go on, but I think you get my point. In terms of your present confusion, only you can make the decision. Personally, if I had a car that I had zero problems with and could own the car as opposed to "borrowing" the car, I would buy it. It is not as if a new S60 is going to obsolete your present S60. But then again, it is ultimately your decision.
  • grantchstrgrantchstr Member Posts: 371
    Thanks for both your replies - opposite views! The car has had zero problems, a great car. And I guess the mileage is comparitively low. In terms of price I recall paying $30,000 for it - it has a bunch of options which pushed it above the basic cost (my description of it as basic was to distinguish it from the Turbo or R version). According to Edmunds, the $15,950 number is close to its value. So now I am confused.

    If the S60 was going to be as good as the old 240 after 8 years it would be OK to keep it I guess, but I think that the old way of making cars is long gone, just my thought.
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    Grant, Forget about Edmunds' value of your S60. Way off base for today's values of the S6O. They are in the proverbial crapper. Price out a comparable new Volvo S60 at 6500+ off MSRP and I think you'll find less than 5k difference between buying new and paying a whopping 18k with warranty for yours. In any event, good luck.
  • cmnottcmnott Member Posts: 200
    It is poor on all Volvos. My 2002 T5 is embarrassing, especially in parking lots. This is all due to the longitudinal mount of the inline 5 for starters, so I was told.

    Volvo must come up with a 4 wheel steer for this vehicle.

    To the person considering buying out the 2001 S60, I also say go with the new, the 2005 is the best, and should be the most reliable as it is the 5th year of the S60.

    I can't beleive I need to replace my rear rotors for a pulsation I have. my car has only 14000 miles and the problem has been since about 12000 miles. My dealer syas they must have warped because of the low mileage. I tell them that is not my problem. If Volvo cannot build better rotors that last this long, then they should pick up half the tab. They say no. i am really peeved about this because they are losing a potentially lucrative customer here. I am planning to get an XC90 next year as well as a S60 R for myself. If they do not reconsider, then I amy have to go to the BMW dealer that is a stones throw away.

    Has anyone else had a problem with the rear brakes? I don't get it, especially in a car that has a hevay weight bias over the front brakes. What peeves me also is my brake pads have %80 life on them, but they recommend new ones for the new rotors.

    Do I have a valid complaint? Or am I just wa-wa-whining?
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    CMNOTT, From personal experience and what I hear and read, many Volvo dealers do not stand behind their product well. Rotors should last well beyond 12k miles. Excessive heat is usually the culprit behind warped rotors. Unless you've been riding down long steep mountain roads or hauling, your (rear) rotors do very little work and rarely warp.

    Bought a 2000 Toyota Tundra. After 15k miles front brakes began pulsating due to rotors being warped. Toyota replaced free and apologized. I would not expect the same from my Volvo dealer.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Cmnott, you might try mentioning your interest in purchasing an XC90 and an S60R to the sales manager of the dealership. I doubt that the sales manager would pass up the chance to make two sales over a rotor replacement job. If you put your money where your moth is (by putting down a deposit), so to speak, I think you will get your free rotor replacement.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Turning circle is not due to the longitudinal mounting of the engine. If that were true, the new S40 would not have a 34.9 foot turning circle. Also, the 850 models (which likewise had longitudinally mounted engines) had turning circles in the 34 foot range.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Actually, the engines are mounted transversely, not longitudinally.
    The turning circle issue is related to 2 things, the FWD setup and the tranverse 5 cyl engine.
    The new S40 is only 175 inches long, plus its wheel wells are much larger in relation to its size that either the S60 or 850. also the standard 850 had narrow 15" tires on it. the 850 turbo and 850 R had turning circles in the 37 foot range. The S90 RWD had a 31 ft circle.
    Any way you slice it the S60's circle isn't good. Its better than my C70 was haowever.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    My appologies for the mix-up between longitudinal and transverse engine mounting, volvomax is correct - the front wheel drive Volvos have transverse engine mounting. That said, I still can't get to a conclusion that turning circle is based on front wheel drive and transverse engine mounting (or vehicle length/wheelbase). I had a '95 850 Turbo that I traded on my S60AWD that had the 16 inch wheels and it had around a 34 foot turning circle - certainly not 37 feet or 39 feet. Also, what year C70 did you have? I had a 2000 C70 Hardtop and it had a 34 foot turning circle (with the 17 x 7.5 BBS multi-spoke wheels). Parking lots for both the 850 and the C70 were a non-event; the S60 is another matter, which is why I am eagerly awaiting the S40 with AWD.
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    It seems that the Volvo dealers of the East are, in general, less supportive than their counterparts here in So California.
    I have never had better service from any service organization, than I have from the Calabasas Volvo service department.

    They made my entire Volvo experience, despite of my fair share of the common problems, truly amazing.

    So, look for the better dealer.
  • s60 2.4s60 2.4 Member Posts: 24
    Volvomax, I recently purchased a 2004 2.4 three weeks ago. What a wonderful auto and again, I am pleased to be a new Volvo owner. I am running 93 as Volvo recommends. My economy has been good but was wondering when I should notice an improvement. Also I have not redlined my auto at all. I would like to ask is there anything you would recommend me doing as for the break in and what I should avoid. Many Thanks!!!!
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    2004 Volvo S80s are going for 8k off MSRP here in Chattanooga. At this rate Buick will have better resale value than Volvo.
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    So was S40 2004 here in LA just before the model change over.

    What trim is discounted?
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    The entire S80 lineup. Just like the S60 lineup all with 6500 off.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    My C70 was a 2001. I had a heckuva time making the turn into my townhouse garage. The S60R does it much easier.
    If you have an 850, see how far you can get the tires to turn, then look at the S60.

    s60 2.4
    Congrats on your new car. It could be as much as 3-4,000 miles before your fuel economy stabilizes.
  • grantchstrgrantchstr Member Posts: 371
    QUOTE "Grant, In my humble opinion if you have a 2001 basic S60 it is not worth anywhere near 16,000 + 2,000 warranty. A new 2004 no frills S60 has an MSRP of 26,960. My local dealer here in Chattanooga, TN has all S60's with the Volvo 4,500 discount plus 2,000 dealer discount. So you can ride a new one for about 20,500 or keep your old one for about 18,000.
    If you really want to keep your Volvo forget about residual. Whoever you're dealing with does not want the car back. Best offer I would make is 12,000 and forget about the warranty." UNQUOTE

    Edmunds has a TMV price in my zipcode of $29,143 for a 2004 S60 (with leather etc for $2,300 of options), are Edmunds TMV values full of crap then? Thats way more than your 20,500!!

    Question:
    At lease expiry, can I negotiate with Volvo and make them an offer, will they do that? It makes sense for them to sell to the lessee as it will save them money on transportation, prepping and marketing the car etc. But an offer of $12,000? Do any car lessors negotiate in this way?
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    Your contract provides a specific price that you can buy the car from Volvo Finance. You can make them an offer that is lower, and they may or may not accept the offer. However, a lower offer involves a loss for Volvo Finance on the transaction and they would have to have proof that your lower offer was the best available price that they could get for the car. The "proof of market price" generally comes from putting the car up for auction; the maximum amount that is bid for the car is what the market price of the car is. Unfortunately, you lose out on the opportunity to purchase the car (unless you are the highest bidder at the auction).

    Sometimes, the finance company will sell the car to a dealer at a discount from the contract price in the lease agreement so that they have certainty on the transaction. If you have a good relationship with the dealer that sold the car to you originally, you might be able to have them purchase the car for you and sell the car back to you with a slight mark-up for the dealer's effort on the transaction. Personally, I doubt that $12,000 will be accepted unless that is the maximum that is bid for the car at auction. And there is nothing that requires Volvo Finance to hold an auction in your neighborhood; the car is theirs and they can sell it where they think they will get the best price for it.
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    Grant - Okay fine. Take the 26,960 MSRP I spoke of earlier, and add the 2300 worth of options. You'll come up with a bit over 29k. Knock off 6500 and figure it out. Then compare the 18,000 purchase of your 4 year old car. You'll come up with the number I already said, about 5k differnce. Good luck
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    VFNA doesn't "negotiate" per se on leases.
    Sometimes they will offer you your car at a lower price than what is in your contract.
    However, they have been less likely to do that over the last few months.
    Finance companies have ways of writing off losses on leases, residual insurance for one thing, they may not be able to do that if they sell you the car.
    Given the current incentive climate you are probably better off leasing a new Volvo and returning yours.
  • triumphbobktriumphbobk Member Posts: 25
    Thanks for the excellent information, it looks like AWD would be nice to have in your back pocket when the road conditions deteriorate. Now all I have to do is decide on which flavor of S60 to get - sport package, leather, moonroof, DSTC, and Xenons. It seems like when I add it all up it's pretty close to being an S60R. So, is it worth the extra money to get the S60R? I suppose they won't discount them as much as the regular S60 2.5T due to their fewer numbers, but wouldn't the "limited production" factor work to maintain its value down the road? Has anyone made any great deals on an S60R?

    Thanks
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    The primary difference between an S60R and an optioned up S60AWD is horsepower and torque (although only for the manual transmission version of the R). Don't look for the kind of deals on the R that you can get on the S60AWD. The other thing to consider is the bloated turning circle of the R (42 foot vs. 39 foot). Also, you don't have as much choice in the colors that are available for the R. For me, the R's 42 foot turning circle is too much; I would rather get an S40AWD with a 35 foot (34.9 foot to be specific) turning circle and add an ECU upgrade when it (the ECU upgrade) becomes available. But that is just my particular opinion.
  • joannjoann Member Posts: 1
    Hi,
    I just purchased an s60 yesterday. I do a lot of highway driving and am wondering if it is worth it too purchase the paint chip protection? For my 1996 subaru I was able to purchase a deflector for the hood to help prevent chips, but I didn't see that availabe for the Volvo. I am not sure the deflector helped much, the subaru does have a lot of chips on the hood, but it also has a lot of miles.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    I own an R and so am biased in favor of it.
    The performance from 0-60 is close to the AWD if you opt for an auto. The handling, seats, and appearance are alot better in the R.
    Neither car exist in great numbers, however there are some good deals available on both cars.

    New Owner:
    Welcome to the club!
    There is a product called Clear Bra which can be applied to the front of your car to diminish paint chipping. Otherwise, there are paint companies that can touch up your chips alot better than you could with a tube of paint.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I noticed that, why does the R take that much of a hit with the automatic? Whats even the point if the T5 can match it? And what is really the point of the T5 at all now that there is the R? Volvo seems like it needs to work on these issues. What do you guys think of the S60 2.5T AWD vs. A4 3.0 Quattro?
  • xmf314xmf314 Member Posts: 154
    For chip protection I had clear paint protection film from expel applied to the front of my 2001 S60. So far I have had no paint chips on the front. The product is made by 3-M and is nearly invisible.

    http://www.xpel.com/
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