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And thanks for the headsup re the plugs.
We checked the CD and the cassette yesterday night and they're fine, my daughter likes the sound in the back seat so that's what's important, right? We really like this car but we'll wait and see what the mechanic turns up before we commit our hearts fully.
btw, do you have any info on the *rear-seat* side-impact safety? I can't find anything, and there's no owner's manual with this car, but I'm wondering if they put in special side reinforcement bars or anything. Since family/safety seemed to be so important in this redesign I thought there would be *something* addressed specifically to the kids in the back.
Hoping for a clean car doctor's appointment today (or at least that the car dealer will deduct cost of repairs),
Carolyn
Glad I'm not the only one.
Exaggerated it a bit in my memory overnight--maybe that's the idea--that the long line there will make people think it's longer and lower etc... Different in mood from what I think of as Camry.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3971&n=156,178&sid=178
Thanks again to all those who posted pictures.
I believe the rear doors have safety beams. If you're really into the safety thing, you might want to check out a Passat. My wife bought a new car a few months back and we drove the Camry, Accord, Galant, Passat, and a few others. I would have bought the passat, but the wife wanted something else. It is a very well built car with nice safety features. I think I'm going for an Audi A6 next time around. I try not to bash the Camrys they are still good cars, but they just aren't built like they used to be. I never had anything break on prior models one of which went close to 200K miles before I replaced it. This one has had numerous little annoyances, that are simply due to cheaper materials.
Other than that - no problems. Still have 50% brake pad life left on fronts and rears @146,000km - per the dealer.
I knew I should of waited for 02 model.
I think the Avalon is due for a new front end and rear tail lights for '03 that will make it less ugly.
I wonder if the Avalon will have navigation for '02 since it will available on the cheaper Camry.
How long do you think it will be before the dealers have mass quantities shipped truckloads at a time so there will be some selection of models and colors?
Another thing. Since full reviews are not going to be available until the October car mags come out, it looks like you will see them at a dealer before you can read and see the full details about them in the mags and online.
It is odd the the Lexus ES300 reviews are already out for a week and that car is not supposed to be at the dealers until October, yet the info on the Camry is still sketchy and secretive.
I apologize if this has been addressed already.
-RAVvie4me
Just scroll back a few pages.
He was really helpful despite a busy day (think he liked the strategizing--he used to fix cars up from auctions), helped us come up with an opening offer price based on KBB and all--he actually thought the car was in 'excellent' condition (I disagree, but I'm a picky picky person but then again what do I know, and he's extremely ethical price wise and practice wise).
so...to get everything all up to date (all new fluids and plugs and such) and new rotors and everything we're paying $13,550 ($12,750 to the dealer) including the dealer's fixing an irritating little rattle near the front door window, which may or may not be the wind noise that's mentioned in a TSB. Oh, and FWIW there's a 30-day-bumper-to-bumper warranty, evidently, carried out by dealers' race car mechanic friends in the same building. So we're not really warranty-less.
So of course I'm very nervous. The KBB is trade: 10,690/11,870/15,690.
Edmunds is *higher*, actually (I thought KBB was higher than Edmunds usually): 12,772/14,320/16,135 and the silly 17,185 for 'certified'.
Why did we get such a deal? Why was the guy so nice? He even waived the silly 'doc fee'. He was such a nice guy. I can't believe our mechanic missed anything. They're excellent and look out for us. My DH is thinking it may be because the car was sitting there on the lot so they were willing to drop 1100 (actually 1150, or 1240 if you count the 'doc fee') because there was a scrape on the plastic bumper, a couple of scratches (small ones) and it's got no sunroof, despite leather and all the other stuff--but it's got side airbags, which they didn't even know before I asked...huh??)
The engine does sound beautiful-- I turn the key and the car goes on and I think it's not on because it's so quiet. Like a cat it is .
I agree that Toyota's gone downhill (especially the Avalons--just couldn't bring myself to buy one after reading all the problems) since they started making them in Kentucky (not to slam American workers or anything, but it's just quite a coincidence), and there are lots of other dream cars I'd fantasize about, but seems that Camry is the one we're marrying . In two years when we get the Maxima or the BMW 5 series station wagon, this one will last my husband for years just driving the occasional 10 miles to work when he doesn't ride his bike.
But *why* was it so *easy*?? Their ask, my bid, their counter-ask, that's it. We're between Private and Retail on KBB (and that's 'good condition', not 'excellent'), and WAY under Private for Edmunds. We're even between Edmunds' Private and Retail for '97.
Guess I won't be able to relax until five years from now when I'm driving my 250-hp/30 mpg station wagon and DH is still driving this!
Thanks for your help and warnings--
ajacat/Carolyn
Is it true that they will be at the dealerships by the 17th of August? Will just one be there? Will they sell that one or keep it around so they the general public can come and see it? When can we order the new Camry's sales brochure? Have they stopped making the 2001 Camry? I hope that is not too many questions for your first day back? We will await your answers and welcome back to the forum.
Before you buy the Maxima, go see how many awards that Nissan has won for either the Maxima or their plants.
One other thing some of you may want to consider is to contact your local dealer to find out when the "in-house" training takes place. For my store, this happens on Wednesday. We will have one here for sales training purposes. Any member of the public who happens by will be able to get a peek at it. This training is happening at all dealerships in the Central Atlantic Region this week. I don't know about other regions.
All of my prior Camrys have been american built and until the 97 were perfect for the most part. I have no reserve about buying a US built Camry prior to 97, but the parts are just plain cheaper on the newer ones. Doesn't matter how perfect they are assembled, cheaper parts only go so far.
Maybe it's just me, but the 'initial quality' award I don't put too much stock in. Folks' experiences seem to vary a lot more with the Avalon than they do with the Camry, even later-model Camrys--including people I've just asked in parking lots recently. And the Avalon suspension I don't like much anyway. We really loved the room in the Avalon, but were put off by the unevenness of quality and felt that with our luck we'd get one that had lots of problems.
We'll be real happy if our new Camry turns out to run as problem-free as our '86 has (which we got in '95). Here's hoping.
Thanks for the reassurance. I think we could have gotten down another couple hundred, but then would he have scratched out the 'doc fee' and would we have been able to get him to fix those couple of rattles he's fixing today? Our mechanic said we did great, so I'm feeling o.k.
Ideally we would have wanted a 2000 LE V6, 'cause you get the 15" wheels and the V6 and not so much other tricked-out stuff (we don't like leather, for example, but I didn't check to see if side airbags were in the 2000 LE--they probably are), but those are hard to find right now. We'd have to wait or hope, and of course it's more $$. So we're relatively o.k. with this one.
Now to do our 60K maintenance and sell the '86. And try to resist the urge to put 16" wheels on our new baby...:)
(Toyota Georgetown is not union. The UAW has never been able to get the required quorum to vote on union representation. Only one North American Toyota plant is union, and it is a joint effort with GM to produce the Tacoma, Corolla and Prizm.)
You say that the cars 'have gone down in general' yet Toyota Camry has been the best selling car in North America for 4 straight years. Toyota keeps winning the J.D. Power quality awards. How can that be?
>but the 'initial quality' award I don't put too much stock in
The plant awards aren't for initial quality, only the individual cars receive that award. Plant awards are for quality in many different areas. They are very sought after awards in the auto industry.
The 'initial quality' awards are given for new cars, and they started in 1990. Toyota/Lexus consistantly ranks high in these.
Resale value is also an indicator of a quality product, and Toyota products hold their value.
Perhaps in the future there will be a 'long term' quality award by J.D Power or other company of that sort. I'm anxious to see how Toyota ranks in those scores as well. I own 3 Toyotas (89, 91, 99); every one I have ever bought ;-) They are fantastic cars. Other than regular maintenance, I have spent nothing for all 3.
Of course, the final vote is the consumer. :-)
Last year I bought a new Sienna for my wife. The problem is, I can't get her to let go of her '91 Camry. And if she ever does, her mother has a standing offer for it. (but I want, too. Great mileage and so easy to drive.)
If you're getting the new 2002 model I think you'll be very pleased with the styling and performance. The new 4 cylinder is up to 158 horse. That's 4 more than my wife's '91 V-6. I've seen the new Camrys and the pictures don't do it justice. It is one sharp vehicle. The silver one that's in the picture that was posted here I think is the best color.
I *am* aware, at least, that the J.D. Power inital quality award has to do with cars--how could it have to do with a plant?
The closest I can find to long-term quality award is the Intellichoice cost of ownership. Is there another better yardstick?
Anyway, it's a '98 XLE V6, has side-airbags and no moonroof but it does have leather. For a used car we got most of what we wanted.
Those 16" wheels would sure be nice, though...
Can you, or anyone, explain possible reasons why Toyota plants are not unionized, contrary to GM/Ford/Chrysler plants? Are Toyota employees making less than UAW workers? I'm curious why Toyota stands out from this crowd.
The NUMMI plant, inherited from the bad old GM days [they used to make some of the most defect-riddled junk in the whole defect-plagued GM lineup] stayed UAW after the joint venture started, but the shop floor feels and looks like Toyota all the way. They just came to a new 4-year agreement on a contract this week, incidentally.
I think all this proves is that the SYSTEM that Toyota [and Nissan and Honda] brings to the table is what is different...not perfect, mind you, just better than anyone else in the business.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3971&n=158,178&sid=178
The dealer's building-sharer-mechanic (who races his own cars and wins national events of a certain kind, I don't remember which, but he's the real thing) was able to fix both rattles today--so no rattles like a 'used car'. Felt so different. It's a quiet cat. Still have to check the motor's running when I turn it on (as opposed to the Buick which takes a few days to turn over) Once we get the brakes addressed it will be perfect.
AND......we discovered, as he took our check and handed us the package of all the papers on the car, SEVERAL GREAT THINGS. First, the (sole) previous owner, a retired Navy man who has my eternal admiration, had given over *all his meticulously-kept records*, even his window sticker from when he bought it new--and second, he'd done the 60K maintenance at 55K (go figure)!!!!! Platinum plugs and everything. And needing to do the maintenance was one of the key points of how we negotiated down!! (the dealer was gracious enough to let us keep the agreed-upon price, making a repeat customer out of me in about two years) The timing belt group/package/whatever they call it wasn't done, but that seems to be a matter of disagreement. We have an owner's manual, too. And the tires he had put on have an 85000 mile warranty, including free rotation and balancing forever, and he had them put on at 45000. I'm still in shock. Never expected all this detail and accountability and quality at a used-car dealer.
Feels like Christmas in August.
I asked the dealer as we were sitting around waiting for something to process why he thought the car was still here after 3 mos. My almost-4 y.o. daughter, who we couldn't tell was even paying attention to what was being said, piped up immediately "Maybe because it knew we would want it!" The dealer said that's the best answer he's heard. (Actually, for his business, evidently 3 mos isn't that long, even for great cars. He's got almost exclusively imports and they do a good businessI don't get it, but I'm just going to relax and accept our good fortune.)
After learning all this we got into the car, turned on the engine and radio, and *of course* Beethoven's Emperor Concerto came on. This Camry is classical perfection. Not Stravinsky, not Philip Glass, but just perfect and serendipitous. And smmooooottthh. (and while this isn't Beethovenesque, a whole lot less expensive than we'd anticipated .
Thanks for your help and advice.
As far as the timing belt issue, I've never lost a timing belt on a V6 camry and I shoot for 100K mile changes. I'm not sure what the manual recommends anymore, but the dealers like to tell you 60K miles which is bull in my book on a non-interference engine like the Camry's. Maybe 80K miles if you're paranoid about calling a tow truck. Of course if you only drive 15K miles per year, a $200 belt every 4 years isn't bad, but when you drive alot and need one every 18 months, that's a bit much.
For more highway-oriented driving, or 'normal' maintenance, 90K is fine, as the owner's manual and Cliffy [hey] state. Our mechanic said he almost always uses the heavier/more severe recommendations for cars in our area--basically for all that aren't used for sales travel.
We're conflicted about when to change it. But I guess this discussion will fit better over on a maintenance board, now that we actually own the car? Still smiling
BUT, I'm not waiting for it to wear out, so I'll be putting it in the garage for the belt. The clutch is still going strong, so I'm going to wait, since I may sell it.
I've never changed it on our '91 V6 Camry either and it has 74K miles, but I wouldn't swear what the owner's manual says. I'll try to remember to look at it tonight.
:-)
It's not that the UAW hasn't tried, nor that there aren't people who want the union, there's just more that don't. Toyota does quite a bit for their employees, benefits, complaint handling (anonymous too), working conditions, safety, training, job rotation and many other areas. So far there has never been any layoff at any Toyota plant (none that I'm aware of. Toyota says that their intention is to never do it.)
My take on it is that the employees feel good about their employer. If conditions were to worsen then maybe union representation would be right, but for now, the majority says no.
Another good reason is that the big 3 have had their plants for a long time. In the early years of assembly lines and mass production the companies took advantage of people, so the unions became necessary. The Japanese learned from the past mistakes when they built their plants starting in the 80s. So far, so good :-)