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Comments
That 4-cylinder sounds pretty nice though, but they'll have to dampen that engine noise if it's going to compete with the Camry and Accord.
I think it looks nice and much more desirable than the boring 97-01 edition. The best looking Camry is the 92-96 edition...lots of Lexus clues on that one..
Do you all notice how 97-2001 Camry bumper color don't match the rest of the exterior color ? Also vertical cuts in the bumper make it look a bit odd.
And the Accord interior isn't mundane???
: )
Mackabee
I will wait to judge the newest one until I see it in person.
Thanks in advance
Also, you are a really informative person, the salespeople at the Toyota dealership I went to ignore me basically, I walked around the lot and in the dealership and no one said anything to me, I had to ask about the new Camry myself, and this guy only gave me a little spec sheet, with a picture of a 2002 Camry XLE in Lunar Mist on the front, I told him I would be back, he told me "make sure you buy one from me," oh well, looks like I will be going to Toyota of Greenville soon. LOL.
Mackabee, you are totally different from those guys, you give us answers to all our questions, and you gave us info on the new Camry way ahead of anybody else. Thank You for that, you make car buying easier, we need more car salespeople like you.
Don't get me wrong, I think the new Camry is a great car. It's just that I like to buy my cars loaded, and if I'm spending $30,000 I'm getting an Acura TL over a Camry. If I want to get the same type of car as the Camry, I'll buy an Accord and save $5,000+.
I'm sure many people disagree with me, but that's my feeling. But I still love the Camry. I just feel its price should be closer to the Accord.
I want a sporty and stylish sedan, so when I first heard that the Camry was being redesigned with "younger" buyers in mind, I was pretty happy. But now that it's out, I'm a little disappointed with the result. The V6 has LESS power than last year, when it was already a little behind its competitors. And I think the new front bumper is too big and blocky. Don't get me wrong - I'll still test drive it, but I don't really think Toyota is going to attract many more buyers outside of their current demographic. Just my opinion. I'll probably end up with an Altima or Maxima, or maybe an A4 if I decide that I prefer style/interior over sportiness.
I didn't think it was necessary to be in the market for a particular car to discuss it.
The only Camry that was worth its money was the 92 generation. This was nice looking and had respectable performance for its time.
To spend 29k on a Camry (XLE) with out Pamela Anderson (men) or Mel Gibson (ladies) sitting in the passenger seat is completely insane.
I need a car before Christmas so I am leaning toward the 2002 Altima for now. I am expecting it fully loaded for about 3k less than the under powered Camry.
Is the use of premium still recommended for the 2002 V6 even though it is slightly lower in rated horsepower?
The interior looks cheap so far. Nothing like the plush Mark II interior that had been leaked a few months ago and claimed to be the 2002 Camry interior.
The next large problem is the $31,500 price at the top end that outprices a discounted 2001 Lexus ES300.
Maybe the 2002 Camry MSRP isn't that much more than a 2001 Camry was, but there a huge discounts and rebates on the 2001s that are not available for the 2002 Camry.
The 4 cylinder has gained 21 HP. 136 is now up to 157. Yes, the V6 is lower by about two. However, this small downgrade was made in order for the V6 model to be certified by the EPA as an ULEV (Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle). Having this tag makes it look a little better to people who care about the environment, hopefully gaining a few more sales.
This small loss may be offset by a lowered curb weight which is possible. The new Altima gained much more size but only added 80 pounds. Could be the same for the Camry, but weigh less since it shall only be 1-2 inches longer.
If you are one of those piggish testosterone driven car drivers who has the need for horsepower, then go buy one of your stupid 3.8 liter gas guzzling George W. Bush anti-environment 300 HP vehicles! The Camry doesn't need a huge powerplant like a large Lexus LS430! The Camry's long time buyers haven't been 30 year old somethings with lots of money to spend, spend, spend on power, power, power. Some of you are complaining about the price. Without a doubt....a bigger engine means more money. Then there are some of you that want great gas mileage. That can't happen too easily in a car with a ton of non-needed horsepower!
Come on people, get real! You can't have your cake and eat it too! This Camry is going to be a grand slam against Honda and Nissan. All three cars are nice.....but nothing will ever outlast a Toyota. Toyota really should buy the slogan "Like a Rock" from Chevrolet. They definitely don't deserve it. That's just my two cents worth and if you don't like it go buy your gas guzzling Unimog FAMILY sedans!
Like many people on this board, I have lots and lots of ownership experience in both Toyota and Honda products. I find the differences to be more subtle and less polarizing than some posters here imply. In our most recent buying decision, the tie-breakers were the superior comfort of the Accord seats, and generally nicer interior and more useable trunk. Our '01 Accord EX V6 sedan is noticeably quieter than the '98-'00 models of the same car, but certainly not up to the standard of the Camry. And of course, our car rides more firmly than any Camry, but also returns a very slightly better handling feel as a result.
I'm just under 6 feet and about 175 lbs, but long in the legs for my height, and as I mentioned in a previous post, the seats in the current Camry "cut" me in the thighs because of inadequate length of the seat cushion. This was a big reason for selecting the Accord, but unlike some who have discussed their opinions here, I don't regard this choice as a religious one. I will certainly try the new Camry eagerly, but would probably forego any decision about a change until the '03 Accord is released, and I have a chance to try the new Altima, as well.
Mac, I think it's legit for anyone who cares about the car to say their say, no matter how close they are to a buying decision. What bothers me are strongly held opinions based on magazine writeups or looking at photos...best to withhold judgment until one has a chance to try the car [and the competition] in person.
Anyway, to wrap it up: I think raw horsepower is the last reason to pick any one of these cars over another. The 4 cyl Camry was indeed noticeably weaker than its competition [though always smooth and quiet], but now that seems to be addressed. I think the spotlight moves to other characteristics of the cars in this class...
Some tid bits for your info:
* The 3800 Series II V6 has a fuel consumption rating of 19 MPG city and 30 MPG highway.
* The 3800 V6 is sold in two flavors: Normal aspirated (200 HP and 225 pounds of torque) and Supercharged (240 HP). There are none 3800 V6's that currently produce 300HP in stock form.
* The 3800 V6 is already ULEV certified since the 2000 model year. Prior to 2000, the 3800 Series II was already LEV certified for emissions. Not a bad milestone for a engine whose basic design dates back from 1962.
* The HP rating of the 1999 3800 Series II V6 was 195HP (LEV) rating. It went up to 200,205 and 240HP in 2000 with full ULEV certification. (Unlike the Toyota that went down in HP to achieve ULEV status? Non sense!)
* The 3800 V6 has been selected among the 10 best V6 engines in the world by Ward's automotive (1995,1996 & 1997).
Those 300+ HP gas guzzlers were produced when Bill was in office. Presidents don't determine HP, manufactures do based on what consumers want. Take a look around and see how many big gas hogs are in your neighborhood.
By the way the 240HP V6 in the 2002 Altima is 19/23. I am not sure if its a gas guzzler, but at least its the same as a 4x2 Highlander which is a Camry on steroids (MT).
As for GM being a leader in fuel economy give me a break. I could list pages of cars and light duty trucks that suck gas. As a courtesy to the others here I will stop here.
Do not bring American cars into this discussion. They don't compete here, this is between Toyota, Honda and Nissan. That goes for Saturn as well.
Get past the enthusiast aspect, that's not where the Camry is targeted and never will be. The SE just provides some variation and spice.
Personally I'd love an SE V6 fully loaded available with a manual tranny, for 26K or whatever the Altima is going for. But we are not the majority apparently (HI-- 80-90% of Camrys are 4cyl) and so Toyota will not be losing too much sleep. Want performance and need a Toyota, get a Celica, or need to haul the family? Wait for the Matrix.
This car is going to kick [non-permissible content removed], and to that extent, its still only a car. If you don't like it, dont buy it. But all this "this should be different, that needs to be changed, etc." is BS. From all the comments that have been made, it seems we'd all like to see something with the styling flair of the original Lex SC, the power of 911, the space of an Avalon, the handling prowess of a BMW, the refinement of a Mercedes, the bullet proof reputation of Toyota, and the price of a Hyundai. Keep frekin dreaming.
~alpha
Guess who were the TRUE enemies of the environment...
back to the topic!
So I'd like to thank everyone for leaving that sort of thing aside and continuing to talk about the Camry here.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Big oil?
Hey if I recall the Camry was criticized in the mid-nintys for not having better fuel efficiency.
the announced mileage I think was 19/26... same as the Maxima, but probably still recommended to use premium fuel. I think the Camry and Accord's 20/28 mileage aren't all that far off from the Altima's though, considering the higher power output.
Thanks
JIMXO
I stopped by my local Toyota dealer on the way home this evening and they had a XLE V6 out back that was still in its factory wrapping. It was Lunar Mist w/stone leather interior and loaded with everything except Nav. The sticker was 30K + - a staggering sum in relation to what you can get for the same $ from other manufacturers. I must say the car looks quite nice in person. The 16" alloys (standard on the V6) are similar to the Avalon's and provide a better visual balance over the standard 15" wheels that I've seen on the LE model. The interior looks a bit more upscale that the LE with some rather hoakie looking wood trim slathered on the console and door pull/window switch area. Reminds me of the Avalon with a bit more 'tailored' look overall. I am interested in seeing a loaded SE since that comes with fog lights, chrome tipped exhaust, spoiler and 'metallic-style' trim vice the 'wood' in the XLE. I wonder if auto-climate control will be an option or package on the SE as my present vehicle has this (2K Solara SLE) and like it over the rotary type controls.
In summary, I doubt the styling alone will attract the 'younger' buyers Toyota is hoping for, but this car will surely steal some sales from the Avalon since they are built on the same platform.
M. J. McCloskey
Yes, it is rather benign for styling but it is really not a racecar or styling maven. Remember how conservative Toyota is. I suspect once we drive the 2002 SE versions, we'll be WOW-meisters. There will be a lot of SE and XLE V6 cars around at first, lots of them with NAV and traction and loads of extras ... Toyota seeing what sells fastest.
Keep in mind that the mainstream cars -- the LE with the starter package (keyless remote + power seat) still MSRP's for pretty much what the 2001 did. $21019 as compared to 20948 for the 2001, same features.
V-6 form with the 5 speed? If not, forget it. Again, I hate Gulf States, $1,500 of trinkets and junk added to each car. Overall, I like the look.
INKY
I have also had two recent Maximas, 95 and 98 company cars. They have it all over Camry, unbelievale V6 engine.
While I haven't experienced the 2002 Camry as of yet, I have compared Camry and Accord in the past and the conclusion I have come to was the one above, Toyota uses higher quality materials (always have) and has a better feel and look than an Accord, which would explain the price difference between the Camry and Accord. I personally think that the Camry interiors are top notch and will continue to be.
I have seen the pictures at Camryman.org and I have to agree with coolguyky7 and say that Toyota has a winner (and Accord killer) on its hands here.
-RAVvie4me
: )
\
Mackabee
As much as I disliked the dashboard on the current gen Camry, the new one is even worse.
crash tested. Love the avalon, but the 3 star
in the crash test for the driver's seat was
shocking. The previous avalons did better on
the tests.
He is frequently making a point to say that the new Camry is an "Accord killer." Says that Hondas are cheap and flimsy and have vinyl-like leather and cheap quality is "a known Honda trait" and on and on.
I don't see what he is talking about. The Accord interior does not look any cheaper than a Camry interior and looks a little more sporty.
I think the TL interior is not as good as some other 30K cars mostly because of very fake looking woodgrain trim on the sides of the center console and some parts that are obviously straight from the Accord's parts bin, but I don't see any unusual cheapness in the appearance of the interior of the Accord itself compared to similar cars, including the Camry.
Someone can have a preference in what looks better to them, but after the 4th post of childish Honda put-downs, it is getting annoying.
I, like Ravvie and Coolguy, agree that the Accord is subpar to the Camry's. You state that Motor Trend and Road and Track had positive comments about the Accord's interior, yet these are just subjective comments made by the people who test drove them for a little while and then moved on, and whose opinions are of no greater value than what we discuss here. While the Accord is undoubtedly a great car, it has to do its homework to compare itself to the Camry's interior, even the new one.
First of all, both myself and my girlfriend (also 20yrs old) think this is a kick [non-permissible content removed] car, especially for a family sedan. Distinctive exterior styling (except the rear). The 15inch alloys looked great as far as stock rims go, and the interior (I honestly have no clue what you others are thinking) is really impressive. I like the chrome logo on the steering wheel, and the center stack is logical and attractive. I inspected the car for a good 10-15mins after the test drive, and the seams and fit of all interior and exterior panels was perfect. Peculiar how small the pass. airbag door was, though, looks a bit strange. (perhaps just cause we are used to way big pass airbag doors from Toyota- can anyone say 94-97 Corolla?) The instrumentation is different- I liked it very much, although I was skeptical at first.
Compared to my mom's 00 LE 4cyl, the new 4 has plenty of power, and doesnt need to rev as high to get up to speed, accordingly. It felt as quick, if not quicker than, the Accord EX 4 I recently drove, so I'd put a 0-60 time right around 9.2 seconds, if I had to guess.
I'm really impressed with this car overall, although I still think it sucks that there's no SE V6 manual, and that alloys arent standard on XLE 4cyls (but 16in. wheels are).
No doubt, another Toyota winner. By the time I'm serious about getting a new car (around spring/summer next year) I'll seriously be considering this Camry (well, probably an SE manual 4 cyl) the new Altima, and the Matrix, if not others. I guess time will tell, but yea, this is an awesome car.
If you are going to bash Accord's interior here, you might as well support your statement with facts. Or should i add that perhaps you just dont have the right sense to see what is better and what is not because of your bias thinking? Or your taste is far more inferior than everyone else around here. Either way, as someone suggested, go to growup.com and take a full course and then come back when your done.
The only major benefit that Toyota has is that it is slightly larger, and obviously has better resale. My insurance is much less, and I have a 5yr 60mile warranty.
I am not in any way suggesting to anyone that the Alero is better for them, just I do not appreciate comments such as "American cars do not belong here" I feel my Alero stacks up very very well to the Camry.