Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

lenscap · November 2002

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-08-2002/0001837619&EDATE=

Toyota Response to Consumer Reports' Survey

TORRANCE, Calif., Nov. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- This statement is being issued by

Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.:

    In survey results publicized by Consumer Reports, the 2002 Toyota Camry

was rated average due to complaints about minor issues with some aspects of

the car's interior and exterior trim.

    Toyota responded to customer reports of uncharacteristic squeaks, rattles

and loose trim in early production of the redesigned 2002 Camry. Internal

surveys and independent reports confirm Toyota's confidence that the issues

have since been resolved and that Camry initial quality is back to its normal

high levels. Functional reliability is not an issue. In fact, Camry scored

well above average in all major operational categories of Consumer Reports'

survey including engine, transmission, brake and electrical systems, etc.

    Camry remains a recommended model and Toyota and Lexus models continue to

be at or near the top of their segments as rated by Consumer Reports and many

other independent quality, reliability and customer satisfaction surveys.

SOURCE Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Issuers of news releases and not PR Newswire are solely responsible for the accuracy of the content.

Copyright © 1996-2002 PR Newswire Association LLC. All Rights Reserved.

A United Business Media company.

gnc · November 2002

I am going to be picking up my new V-6 XLE tomorrow. Is there anything I need to by aware of during the delivery inspection? Thanks!

wmquan · November 2002

... Internal surveys and independent reports confirm Toyota's confidence that the issues have since been resolved and that Camry initial quality is back to its normal high levels ...

At least they admitted that there was a problem and didn't try to deny it. Not too surprising given the introduction of a new model. I'm sure future CR surveys will show vast improvement.

badgerfan · November 2002

Well,I will give them credit for responding, but time will tell if they are just putting a positive spin on it to try to keep their customer base from leaving for the competition. Previous Camry redesigns apparently did not have new model startup bugs nor did they receive less than above average reliability ratings.

cliffy1 · November 2002

Better to have trim and fit problems than alternative problems.

manamal · November 2002

All I know is that my (late) 2002 Camry has not had any fit/finish issues. Everything is great...except for the failed ADS (Acorn Defense System).

I suspect that whatever problems they had were addressed during the '02 model run.

alpha01 · November 2002

Incidentally, we have had no problems either with our Camry, produced Dec. 02. It continues to be an outstanding vehicle. I feel that CR's reliability rating is likely correct, and that the quality gap (initial quality) is finally closing between Toyota/Honda and the rest of the world. (This "initial quality" issue is surfacing with the new Accord as well- rattles, slipping transmissions, starting problems etc can all be viewed on that thread in just the past few days.) However, as I noted before, all makes have initial quality issues, and in the past Toyota has immediately improved in the next year. I still believe that "the rest of the world" has a large amt. of progress to make in terms of LONG TERM reliability.... By that measure, I am confident that Toyota and Honda are still ahead of the game.
~alpha

dust90 · November 2002

You bought a Camry built NEXT month? Typo, right? I have an 03 Camry that is a perfect as anyone could expect. As to Honda, I had an Acura CL (2001)and sold it after just six months. More wind noise than my Tundra truck, plus Honda was having problems with their new 5 speed auto. Some of the dealers were replacing trannys with no bitching, but some of dealers & district reps were giving Acura owners a hard time. Just go to AcuraCL.com - they have entire catagory of posts, dedicated to tranny failures. Plus Honda's drivetrain warranty is only 3yr/36000 miles compared to Toyota's 5yr/60000 miles. I've had my last Honda product for awhile.

xbbuster · November 2002

Before you take your final test drive, check for nicks and scratches especially on the rear bumper. I had to take mine back after finding nicks in the painted bumper, one had a little gob of touch up paint smeared on it. When I took it back, the shop mgr. said it was probably done by the driver of the delivery rig. He said all the drivers carry an assortment of touch up paints.

alpha01 · November 2002

yea, no.. definitely meant 02 Camry purchased Dec 01. sorry bout that.
~alpha

andrelaplume · November 2002

Early Toyotas...hog wash mine was built in April and is getting worse all the time. If they figured out a way to 'fix' the rattle issues then where is the TSB so I can get mine done? There is a dude in the rattles forum going to arbitration on 11/14...with all this new knowlege on how to fix the rattles I am sure Toyota will have no problem fixing the car. yeah right) Funny though how my dealer has not heard of any TSB or any other suggestive fixes for rattles in the door pillars on so many 2002s they take complaints on. In short, I doubt they have done anything except put out a positive spin...just as the new Honda is out the gate! I am pissed more and more each day as these rattles get worse...is that coming across!

For the first tme I sort of disagree with Cliffy1...while it might be better to have rattles than engine problems that is not what Toyota stands for. I encourage owners, dealerships and even Cliffy1 to let Toyota know about the dissatisfaction. Again look back in CR at the years when new Camry models were introduced...I see no degreagation in quality....until this year!

I feel better, I have vented!

yanker · November 2002

I saw three XLE's with a $200 credit for the six disc changer. Is it for real. Is the dealer who does not seem to know about it ( 2) telling the truth. Also I find charges for the
so called carpet package and the catalog says some of this stuff the grocery net back is standard equipment

toyotaken · November 2002

Toyota seems to be making quite a few changes early in the model year for the Camry. Right from the begining, they included keyless entry on the LE trim as standard equipment. Last month, they started building cars with a "PE" option which was a power seat which was a No Charge option. The production schedule for December is not showing even this option on the LE camry's, so I'm assuming they're making it standard equipment. So it's not surprising that your dealer or salesperson didn't know about some or all of these changes, they have not made a big issue of them, but just started building them like this. Hope this helps.

c0ke · November 2002

Thanks again!

Just got back from the shop and the repair ticket listed the reprogramming of the ECU using their internal reference to the TSB. I had printed out the Edmund's notice and combined it with part of your message.

Don't know how one verifies the reprogramming. But I'll be trying to check for the "surging" -hesitation problem around 40mph to see if the problem is cleared up.

cjts · November 2002

Hey Charles, good that you got that taken care of. The only way to verify the re-calibration of the ECU is if you have access to a 12 Megabyte Diagnostic Tester Program Card with version 8.0 software (or later). It would give you the code for the program. I doubt anyone would have one of those for personal use. The easy way is to look for the attached Authorized Modifications Label on the underside of the engine hood. If the re-calibration was performed, they MUST have put the label on the car as it is a requirement under the Federal Emissions Warranty. Also, hopefully you will notice the difference when cruising between 38-42 mph. Good Luck

anonymousposts · November 2002

While I will admit I would rather have a rattle than an engine problem and it is good that Toyota admitted they had some fit and finish issues where was this honesty when people were putting engines in their Camry at 20,000 miles? Unfortunately for those owners who had to pay thousands, Toyota's honesty policy was a little late.

alpha01 · November 2002

If you are referring to the oil sludge issue, you are exaggerating a bit (find me documentation of a maintained engine failing at 20K), and those owners should have gotten their money back through the SPA issued last year.
~alpha

c0ke · November 2002

Hmmm, lots of padding and three labels on underside of hood.

One was about the type of plugs to use.
Another was a type of diagram/layout.
Third was tune up specifications info.

Basically what does this label look like?

When the car was released the managers were in a meeting so I didn't get to ask anyone about it. But if I can't find the label I'll be calling them on it.

Would something like this show up when you do a VIN number check?

So far I've not noticed the slight jerking motion but I'll be watching for it during the next week.

dshenmdyn · November 2002

Does anyone know if Toyota is offering any cash rebate for customer who pay cash and opt not to take the special financing?

Also, it seems that Toyota is making a lot of changes to the standard/option equipments. It makes it difficult to figure out the real invoice. Anyone has suggestions regarding how to find out the most accurate invoice price? Thanks.

Thanks.

gnc · November 2002

I just "upgraded" from a MY 2000 Mercedes Benz ML 320 and am delighted with the Camry! The ride, fit, finish, and preformance are wonderful. This vehicle is in the same playing field as the much more expensive MB E320 which I have driven multiple times and seriously considered.

The only minor issue I have noted is a slight delay on initial cold starts. This issue seems to be taking care of itself. Any one else have a similar experience?

toyotaken · November 2002

Each region has different programs, so you'll have to check to see what the programs are in your particular area. That or give an idea of where you're talking about. Currently, in the Western New York area, for example, there are not any rebates on the Camry, just special finance programs.

As for invoice pricing, one of the best ways to get it is to find a reputable dealer and ask them to show you an invoice on the car you're purchasing. If they are a dealership that doesn't mind being open and honest about their sales practices, they should be willing to do so. This isn't something that ANY dealer will do on every vehicle they have in stock, but if you know that there is a car that you're looking at specifically, they should be willing to show you the invoice if it will help facilitate the sale.

anonymousposts · November 2002

Right before Toyota announced that a sludge problem did exist on the 2 engines that compromise 70-80% of their product there was an article in the LA Times where a woman had to get a new engine at 20,000 miles. There is no lack of maintenance that can occur in 20,000 miles to justify a complete engine failure. Even 1 oil change should keep your engine from failing. And now a lot of manufacturers are going to 10,000 mile intervals or more between oil changes. It wasn't the engine that was the problem. Toyota's recommended oil change intervals were the problem.

cliffy1 · November 2002

The label you saw was correct and I hate it. For some reason, Toyota decided to make a standard feature and option. If they delete the 6 disc, they show a $200 credit on the MSRP. I think Toyota is asking for trouble with this.

gnc · November 2002

Does anyone know what the "passenger" label refers to? This lies to the left of the display. Thanks.

toyotaken · November 2002

This is actually the indicator for the passenger seatbelt. There is a sensor in the seat so that if you have someone sitting in the seat and they don't have their seatbelt on, it will flash. It doesn't turn on unless someone is sitting there AND they don't have their seatbelt on. So if they have their seatbelt fastened, or there isn't anyone there, it is labeled, but doesn't flash.

gnc · November 2002

Thanks for the answer! I couldn't find it in the owners manual.

Another question that I am unclear on: Why does the "A/C" light always come on when the automatic climate control is in the auto mode? This happens even when the outside temperature is lower than the set cabin temperature. Is the system trying to send dehumidified air? Does it matter if I manually turn off the A/C light (the auto mode indicator continues to indicate auto)? I notice the same situation happens in my other vehicle which also has a automatic climate control system.

Thanks in advance for the help.

dust90 · November 2002

Yes, the AC compressor is 'ON' in auto mode to dehumidify. You can press the AC button & turn it off, but if your windows start to fog up(probably only in rain or other high humidity conditons), you may have to turn the AC back on. The AC compressor also come on, even in manual mode when you select 'defog'or 'defrost' and in some Toyotas the AC button doesn't illuminate. If you are in doubt, just select manual defog or defrost while idling and listen for the compressor or watch the tach. The RPM should increase slightly when the AC compressor kicks on(the computer automaticly raises the idle speed for the AC compressor).

schooly · November 2002

NEW TO TOWN HALL.EXPECTING 03 XLE WITH #8PACKAGE ,SIDE AIR,HEATED SEATS,4CYL. FIRST TIME TOYOTA OWNER. WANTED SAFETY, RELIABILITY AND COMFORT.GET WORRIED WHEN I SEE THE COMPLAINTS ABOUT RATTLES AND OTHER PROBLEMS.SHOULD I BE CONCERNED OR IS THE FORUM MORE FOR NEGATIVES THAN POSITIVES.

toyotaken · November 2002

dust90 answered that question just about perfectly.

gnc · November 2002

Thanks for answering!

andrelaplume · November 2002

I am a first time Camry owner as well and purchased for dependability, refinement and safety. I was simply looking for a vehicle to replace my FORD that would allow me LESS time at the service center, better gas mileage and a quieter, more pleasant rattle free ride. (I am one of those folks who rattles drive crazy) I was willing to pay several thousand dollars more for this. This board was a source of optimism for me early on and perhaps even tilted the scales towards to Camry for me. However, a few major snafus have hit Toyota of late:

1) Sludge Issue - handled poorly by Toyota but does not affect the 2002/2003 4 cylinder engines...looking back perhaps a sign of things to come...Toyota eventually did stand behind their product but made fools of themselves in the process....I figured, hey, this was new territory for them and nobody's perfect....probably their ego did not want to believe the sludge issue was for real...

2) Side Impact saftey...to put it bluntly it sucks and should be better and if the NHSTA test was an anomoaly Toyota should be feverishly pettioning a new test....they are not.

3) Rattles: this one came un-expectedly for me but certainly has me (and now others) wondering if this will be symbolic of other aspects of quality and reliability.

I can only say this. My 4cyl auto accelerates quickly, smoothly and effortlessly. The car is quiet in terms of engine noise and wind noise. It is quite comfortable and has a very roomy trunk. I would be VERY satisfied if Toyota would own up to the rattle problems and offer dealers a fix; as opposed to simply saying the issue has been addressed, early owners are now satified and the problem corrected. By the way, I called Toyota and they could not eloboarate on any of these, ie could not reference a single internal survey, have not provided the dealers any fix information to the door pillar rattle problems - or any other, and finally could not descibe ANY design alteration that would eliminate the rattles on the 2003 models. (In case you missed it there was a press release referenced a few posts up)

Anyway, hopefully they will come up with a fix for the rattles and more focus can then be spent on the above mentioned 'positives' of this vehicle instead of worrying about future reliability and percieved quality defficiencies.

maxamillion1 · November 2002

The Camry has been a very dependable family sedan. The reason why you might see so many complaints is because most message board user voice their opinions about problems so that they can get solutions, and to see if anyone else has the same problem. Go into any message board, and you'll see a LONG list of problems. Every car has it's problems, and the Camry is no exception, but overall, the Camry and Accord are some of the best cars made today.

alpha01 · November 2002

The Camry was re-crash tested ahead of other 2003 models as a result of Toyota's insistence. (I posted during the summer regarding Toyota's response to a call I made to 800.331.4331, the CS center)It then received 3 stars for driver side crash safety, narrowly missing a 4 star rating, which indicates to me, and others, that the first test was an anamoly. The rear passenger again received 5 stars. I am confident that you have very little cause for concern. (It should be noted that the Camry received exceptional scores in the frontal offset IIHS and full frontal NCAP tests).

That said, why not concentrate on the positives? If you had gone with the new Accord, for example, you'd likely have the same probability of a rattle, judging from that board.

Is yours an LE or XLE 4? Ours is LE, (2002) Pkg 1, ABS, Alloys, MVID. Strat Mica, 16K + miles. Great car. FAR improved over the former generation.

Enjoy!
alpha

silvercrown · November 2002

I have a 2000 LE V6 and the other day, I noticed some red fluid in my driveway as I was backing into my garage. At first I thought it was transmission fluid leaking (which scared me a bit). Although it was dark outside, I checked it and it looked normal. No warning lights were on, so I figured I'd keep an eye on it to see if anything else happened.

A few days later (during daylight hours), I opened the hood to replenish my windshield solvent and I noticed some dried fluid on top of the coolant reservoir. Since the coolant is also red, I thought that maybe it was coolant that I saw on the driveway, that leaked out. Or worse, overflowed? Again, no warning lights, but this made me a bit nervous.

I took my car for an oil change yesterday and asked them to check it out and see if I had a leak and/or find out why it would have overflowed. The service tech claimed that this is "normal" for Camrys, that it does happen on occasion and the mechanic who said so has been doing this for 15 years, blah, blah, blah. They cleaned up the reservoir container and that was that. It was late in the evening and they were about to close.

This didn't sound right to me and I know that dealer service can sometimes make poor excuses for a problem and even lie on occasion. Especially when dealing with women, so many mechanics treat us like we are brain dead. I'm not happy with this rather pat answer and I don't believe that a car should have any type of coolant overflow problem and that be considered normal.

This is the dealership where I bought my car in 1999, but I normally have it serviced at another dealership closer to home. I have generally been satisfied with Toyota dealer service, but this bothers me. I feel like they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes and I'm not having it. I'm not letting this go until I have a better answer or have been assured that it's been fixed. I haven't had any major problems with my car and I don't plan to start now, especially as it's getting cold and winter is fast approaching.

I have an appointment with my usual dealer to fix my trunk release, since there wasn't enough time for the other dealer to look at it yesterday. This trunk release issue is an annoying (although small), recurrent problem with this car, but that's another story. I'm going to ask them to look at the coolant reservoir, hoses, etc., as they will have more time with the car.

Has anyone else had this type of problem? If so, did you get this kind of response? What do you guys think about this?

TIA,
SilverCrown

andrelaplume · November 2002

was that with side airbags...the original test was not and I do not have them. I'll feel much better if I knew that no changes were made to the 2003; ie that my 2002 with no side airbags really gets 3 stars.

Now lets get the rattle thing taken care of...and don't tell me about Hondas!

andrelaplume · November 2002

What happened?

cliffy1 · November 2002

The new test was also without side air bags. When they test with them, they clearly mark it in the results column.

megawattblues · November 2002

Need to know this for a set of mtd. snowtires on our '97 Camry. Will 14 in. '95 wheels fit a '97 4cyl. LE?

Thank you big.

strager · November 2002

Toyota's "options" create the perception that you can get the car the way you want it equipped. The reality is you can have only whatever combination of options the marketing dorks have decided to build this month. Not only does this create frustration and dissatisfaction for buyers trying to find the right car, but these options are downright deceptive.

I think it's high time Toyota adopted a simpler system like Honda has. Or else, offer a true build to order system to give customers what they really want.

marjoker · November 2002

Apparently Toyota engineering and quality control are more important to Camry buyers than the option of being able to pick and choose from every available option since Camry is THE best selling sedan.

carguy000 · November 2002

I was glad to see that the '03 Camry got three stars in the latest round of testing. Were there any changes made for '03? If not, the '02 results would seem to be an anomaly, but Toyota could have very well made some changes. In fact, lots of carmakers beef up their structures before the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety crashes their cars. Even Toyota did this a couple months into selling the new 2001 RAV4s, and the 2002 Lexus IS 300s were re-engineered compared to 2001s. Different test, I know, but they may have done some mods to the 2003s. Does anyone know?

I actually toured the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety two weeks ago. It was incredible, and they crashed a new Mini Cooper while I was there. The lady kept referring to Toyota and how they "strive for perfection." They had a 2002 Camry on display that had been crashed into the offset barrier at 40 MPH, and the front windshield wasn't even broken. They crashed a 2003 Corolla earlier in the week, and were retesting it the next week after Toyota made some changes. It looked like it did fine, but apparently they weren't happy with something. All of the results from the Institute's lastest round of testing will be available on December 10th. www.hwysafety.org

The cars that I saw on display (Mini, new Accord, A4, Corolla) did very well.

manamal · November 2002

What there any change to the car to account for the difference, or was the first test a fluke?

cliffy1 · November 2002

There are some that would prefer the Honda model which is: Here is the car. Take it or leave it. You have no options.

Some prefer this, seemingly because they don't want to know what else they might be able to get. I agree that it can be frustrating when the exact configuration you want is not sitting at your dealer's lot with your name on it, but that doesn't mean it is a bad system. It allows Toyota to meet regional demands.

cliffy1 · November 2002

No changes that I am aware of.

8u6hfd · November 2002

minor changes...XLE now gets standard fog lights.

cliffy1 · November 2002

No structural changes.

wmquan · November 2002

There may be no structural changes that we're aware of, but there might be. It's very difficult to tell. Interestingly, the 2002 and 2003 side-impact crash test results for the rear passenger were very consistent, with measured pelvic and chest injury numbers being very consistent. It was only the front that showed a significant variation. That consistency makes the chance of an anomalous test lower (e.g. it's not because of an issue in vehicle positioning for the test).

Thus, either there was an issue in the front dummy positioning in the test, or that there was indeed some kind of change made to the 2003's to help the front passenger.

alpha01 · November 2002

Note that the new rating for the side crash test shows the Camry earning very close to four stars. For example, the TTI in the 2003 Camry is just one unit higher than the TTI for the 2003 Corolla front passenger (which earns 4 stars), and the Camry's pelvic measure is actully lower. Personally, I still feel that there was some kind of test peculiarity for the 2002, but I would indeed appreciate any kind of statement on the part of EITHER NHTSA OR TOYOTA (if structural changes have been made).

carguy000- how were you able to tour the IIHS center? do they typically run tour groups, or was this some kind of special event? I want in! That would fun as hell! As a side note, I think that ever since that one Dateline NBC show aired in 1996 with the disatrous IIHS performance of the Previa minivan, Toyota has realized that SAFETY is a selling point.

~alpha

wmquan · November 2002

Yes, I noticed that it's very close to 4-stars. Personally, I don't think the test was an anomaly, and I think Toyota did something to the 2003's. But I can't be sure and, like you, I'd love some truthful statements from someone.

Regardless, I still think that the relatively new Camry should do better at side impacts. A number of older vehicles get a clean 4-stars (some closer to 5-stars) without side airbags.

a_l_hubcaps · November 2002

#4588 megawattblues:

Yes, '95 Camry wheels will fit a '97. All 1992 through 2001 Camry wheels are interchangeable. I think the 2002-03 wheels will also fit those models and vice versa, but I'm not positive.

-Andrew L

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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