Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

c0ke · November 2002

I know the shopping around can be frustrating but I thought the cars that showed up at the dealers were "preferenced" by the dealership prior to production. I guess the dealers though are influenced by the "marketing higher-ups".

If you know exactly what you want you may be able to hook up with a salesman who will look through the "big book" (my terminology). That's how I got exactly the car I was looking for. He put my name on it and told me when it was scheduled for production from that listing. In fact there one with the moon roof the other w/o ... my choice.

He put my name on it and called me when it was being pulled off the truck. I think it was about a three week wait 'til delivery. This was for an '02 back last year at a time when they only had three new demo Camrys on the lot.

Some large dealerships I remember had their inventory online. I could have taken a couple hours drive for an immediate deal but then I felt I would be at a disadvantage if there was any bargaining.

Oh yes, my request was for a specific minimum number of options on an LE V6 ... not a popular preference I suspect.

Good luck.

megawattblues · November 2002

Thanks!

I got 4 mtd. I-ZEN's coming from tire rack. As you are finalizing your on-line order, you are prompted to (once again) select the year & model that these tires are for.

Apparently, my sloppy mouse-click over the drop-down menu selected '95 instead of '97. Didn't realize this 'til I got the confirming email, and tires & wheels had already shipped.

> beads of sweat on forehead< DOH!

I can relax now. Thanks again!

bdesai · November 2002

As a current owner of a '98 Camry (LE, 40K miles, AT) I feel that I can say this without insulting all you Toyota fans. While this Camry has remained mechanically problem free, just too many stupid little things have me totally p'd off.
1. Drivers door does not close the way other doors do (from day one). It needs just a little extra push - I know, I know - picky, picky! Heck ya, I'll be picky and expect perfection. I thought Toyotas were only made after a lot of thought and with great detail in mind ?? Not so sure now!
2. Both rear doors squeak. Granted we do not use these doors often, I have lubed/oiled them regularly.
3. Rattle from the B pillar on driver’s side. Taken to the dealer multiple times and had some of the trim re-installed but this problem still continues.
4. Passenger side door armrest trim cracking. I can't believe this.
5. Driver side door trim that has the window switches is peeling paint. Again, I can't believe this crap.
6. Hood does not prop up at all when lever pulled from inside the car. It will open without problems but at times it has been left open since
it is easy to forget it is open since the hood seems perfectly aligned and no visual clue to remind that it is open.
7. Ditto as above for the trunk. Both of these since day one and when taken to dealer they said, "Well, that’s the way it is".
Bottom line for me:
1. This model Camry is cheap, cheap, and cheap. Plastic quality is horrendous. Plastic trim pieces don't fit perfectly.
2. The "attention to detail" factor is just plain missing.
3. Seat fabric feels cheap esp. now after 4 years.
4. I think Toyota seems to putting its good resources to Lexus and SUV products since they fetch a fat profit, and leaving the Camry’s and corollas to their inexperienced teams. While this makes immediate business sense, not taking care of its core and bread and butter products is going to come back someday and bite their [non-permissible content removed].
5. '98 Camry: Very amateurish.
6. I am done with you TOYOTA. When its time to buy a new car, I am going to HONDA. Asta La Vista, baby!!

phantomca · November 2002

Anyone out there have a electrical manual on a 1990 toyota camry.
I am trying to install a new radio on the car but the snap in adaptor is missing. Looks like when they took the old radio instead of unhooking the adaptor they cut it right straight thru the wires.
Now what I have is a bundle of wires not knowing where it goes.
Where is a good manual to find that type of information on the radio wires?

alpha01 · November 2002

I would agree with you about that generation vehicle, though I have not had nearly the problems that you have had with yours. Also, some of your issues are weird- for example, the "peeling paint" on your window switch panel. To my knowledge, thats not painted plastic, its dyed. That said, our Japan assembled 2000 Camry has interior quality and materials on par with the best that GM offers. Thats not saying much. However, I feel that our 2002 is MUCH improved in this respect, and everything feels sturdy to the touch, and looks it. In fairness, you may want to give the redesign a chance- Toyota smartly "recontented" this car. As for Honda- you may be impressed with the gorgeous instrumentation of the new Accord (as was I).. but the switchgear (windows, climate control) feels cheaper than in previous versions, and compared to the new design Camry. Other plastics are still of high quality, though.
~alpha

8u6hfd · November 2002

I believe the Haynes manual has it.

alpha01 · November 2002

FYI- CarsDirect.com finally has pricing information for the 2003 Camry option packages, which are different from those of 2002.

Any new V6 insider information? This was a hot topic about two weeks ago...

~alpha

bdesai · November 2002

Thats what I thought about the window switch trim, that it is not coated with the color but that the whole plastic IS that color. Well, the color started to peel and under it is black colored plastic !!!!
Don't get me wrong, the car is still way better than a lot of cars out there in its class. But I am still rather disappointed because it is BELOW my expectations. I feel that once upon a time Toyota put a lot of its resources in basic family cars. Now that the profit margins have gotten thinner in the this class of cars (due to too much competition) they just seem to have abandoned it. If they get the GM/Ford bug of concentrating on big profit vehicles only, they'll end up with the same fate.

tommyg12 · November 2002

According to the "new" option packages on Cars Direct, the only way to get an SE/V6 with "factory" leather and a sunroof is to order the SE Navigation package. I find it strange that a sunroof is not part of the SE Premium package.

I'm not real sure that I want the leather and side air bags installed as a regional. But then it gets more weird, to add heated seats you have to order the SE Premium or NAV package. So either way you look at it, to get an SE/V6 with leather, sunroof, and heated seats, you have to purchase the NAV package. Can someone else plug in a configuration and see if I have missed something. Thanks.

alpha01 · November 2002

So perhaps carsdirect.com is not yet fully updated, I just encountered the problem you illustrated. You should be able to add the SE Premium Pkg and then the power moonroof as a stand alone option (at least according to the vehicle brochure viewable at toyota.com). It is true that heated seats require the SE Premium Pkg OR SE Nav Package. But it is not true that to get a moonroof and heated seats you MUST purchase the Nav Package.
~alpha

tommyg12 · November 2002

You are correct. I went to carpoint.com and the sunroof is listed as a separate option. So if one does not want nav, it looks like the best bet is the SE Premium with the sunroof and heated seats as individual options. Thanks.

rubicon52 · November 2002

I have owned 7 Toyotas over 18 years and agree that Toyotas build quality is not what it used to be. But, remember that Toyota has to perform a balancing act. They want to maintain good enough build quality to satisfy buyers but keep the price down so they're cost competive. The Toyota Motor Company has years of experience in building the most trouble free cars in the world with excellent build quality - Lexus. The new JD Power Dependability Survey states that a 1998 Lexus has few problems today than the average 1998 new car did when it was new. Lexus is on top in the survey and I believe it has been #1 almost every year the survey was done.
Toyotas are mass market cars. I think Toyota is correct is concluding that mass market buyers are not willing to pay the several thousand dollar premium for Lexus like build quality. Toyota Motors believes that value and features are more important to the Toyota buyer than no rattles. They may have let build quality slip too much in the new Toyotas in this balancing act between build quality and price. If Toyota decides to increase build quality in response to the complaints about rattles, I'm confident that they can increase build quality to any level they wish to achieve.

viche · November 2002

I'm thinking of buy a used 2002 Camry SE 4 cyl Automatic and I have a couple of questions for you experienced Camry owners:

1. Does the 4 cyl require premium gas?

2. Does the new lowered reliably score from Consumer Reports affect the the 2002 cars as well or are the 2003 being manufactured somewhere new?

3. What things should I have my mechanic check out? Have their been any major reoccuring issues with this car that I should know about?

4. Does the vent system have the ability to use either outside or re-circulated air?

5. Do any of you know if the warranty on a new car transfers to the next owner (me)?

Thank so much!!!
Viche

nippononly · November 2002

1. no, you can use regular unleaded in the 4-cyl

2. the new reliability score IS for the 2002, and comes because of numerous problems related to rattles, squeaks, and general unpleasantness of that sort. The 2003 MAY have many of the same problems, although Toyota made a very public announcement this week or last that it has resolved those problems for new cars. Whether it actually has or not remains to be seen. Make sure to test drive the car you intend to buy on rough pavemant if you go ahead, but be advised that many of the people reporting here have not had these problems appear until several weeks into ownership.

3. Apart from that, there is nothing special that should be checked beyond the usual things you should check for any used car.

4. Yes, you can use recirc or outside air for the HVAC. A/C runs automatically when you have the setting on defrost, or defrost/floor.

5. The original transferrable warranty on the camry is 5 years from date of first use, and 60,000 miles for powertrain coverage. The bumper to bumper is 3 years/36,000 miles. It follows the car, so you will have it too, and you can have it serviced at any Toyota dealer in the U.S.

andrelaplume · November 2002

andrelaplume · November 2002

I already paid thousands more for my Camry than a Taurus. I paid those $$ for better reliability and fit and finsh including NO RATTLES. If Toyota thinks I am going to pay more on top of that to get into a Lexus they are nuts. I strongly expect they will find out that if they do not nip this in the bud they will start to loose market share. Again, you are already paying more for the Toyota so you expect something more in return. It does not seem they learned their lesson from their little sludge issue does it?

As far as correcting the 2003 rattles...this is hogwash, as stated in a prior post:

1) The dealer's are unaware of any TSBs specifically tied to adjusting the 2002s door pillars or dashes.

2) When I called and cited the press release, Toyota could offer no specifics on what was changed in 2003s or how something could be implemented so quickly...my 2002 was built in April...the 03s came out soon after.

3) They could not site specifically any internal survey targeted at customers demonstrating that the Toyota community is feeling better about their rattles.

I am not saying it is a bad car but I am no longer conviced it is as good as they would have you believe. Lets see how they stand by their product...I anxiously await word from dealer with a rattle fix solution for my door pillars and dash.

Again, I know I have been pesemistic of late, but each time I see a positive spin on things it disapoints me. This is the same crap I use to hear about the American cars...people don't care if they rattle, if radio knobs fall off, if doors are misaligned...so long as it's cheap....well this is one dude who cared and payed extra for a car puported to be different. Perhaps it all relative, may be the above average Camry will now be average and the average Ford will drop to below average....

rubicon52 · November 2002

You raise a lot of issues, but the crux of your arguement seems to be that you paid "thousands more" for a Camry over a Taurus and you think that this price premium entitles you to a rattle free car. First, of all the idea of paying "thousands" more for a Camry is wrong. The Edmunds TMV price for a middle of the line Camry LE V6 auto is $20,809. I don't know which Taurus is comparable to this Camry, but the Edmunds TMV price for the entire Taurus line is $18,751 to $22,536. The midpoint of this price range is $20,643, exactly $273 cheaper than the Camry. And guess what, in a few years the Camry will be worth much more than the $273 price difference because Camry has excellent resale while Taurus has poor resale. So it seems to me that the Camry is the same price or cheaper than the Taurus considing initial price and resale. I know that the Edmunds TMV prices are realistic because 18 months ago I bought a Toyota for exactly the Edmunds TMV price. If you paid thousands more for a Camry, your situation has nothing to do with Camry reliability or Taurus reliability - you simply overpaid for your car.

I'll make another attempt at saying what I said earlier, but hopefully clearer. Toyota is clearly capable of building the best quality cars in the world (Lexus), but they believe that the number of buyers willing to pay a premium of thousands of dollars for this build quality is limited. Instead, Toyota has chosen to remain competitive on price. However, I do believe that the rattles with the new Camrys shows that they may have comprimised a little too much on build quality. If you look at the results of quality surveys like JD Power, you will see that Lexus/Toyota have consistently been at the top of these surveys since the surveys began. To me this says that the Toyota Motor Corp knows exactly how to build cars with consistently high build quality. But, in the case of Toyota they decided to balance build quality with price. Personally, I would prefer a balance more in the direction of build quality. However, I think Toyota recently moved up to 3rd or 4th largest car builder in the world, so maybe Toyota is right and I am wrong.

tomgreen1000 · November 2002

Hello,

My wife and I are the new owners of a 2003 LE, 4 cylinder, automatic. Option packages are ABS and airbags group. I have read through the old posts regarding the transmission "clunk" and have noted that it is only supposed to apply to the V6. Our car also has a strange noise when going from reverse to drive. It is louder than a "click" but probably not loud enough that I would call it a "clunk". Sequence of events follows:

Start car
Put in reverse. Doors automatically lock.
Put into drive, passing through neutral.
After you have gone 5 to 10 feet forward, there is a noise almost like a switch opening/closing.
This happens with overdrive engaged or disengaged.

Any ideas or comments? I wanted to have some information on hand before going to the dealer and being told this is "normal". Thanks.

Tom

andrelaplume · November 2002

I appreciate what you are saying and am not denying it. Note that at the time I purchased my Camry the Ford had $2500 in rebates....against a slightly inflated sticker. Furthermore, at year's end at least the Fords never sell anywhere near their sticker. So actually I did spend 2K more for the Camry. I don't dispute what you are saying about depreciation...those Ford rebates drove the price of low mileage 2001 Taurus program cars down to 15K! I almost got one but decided I had had enough down time in the garage and rattles. Furthermore the rattles I am experiencing as are others) are mostly in the likely poorly designed door pillars, or the way they are assembled. I would not be complaining about an occasional rattle here or there. These are fairly consistent. Lets hope for a TSB and then my Camry might feel like a Lexus.

badgerfan · November 2002

My experience with Edmund's TMV for Taurus when I bought mine was their TMV did not count rebates and the willingness of dealers to deal. My 2000 SES with 200 HP Duratec V-6 I bought for at least $1500 less than TMV (I paid $18,000 not including tax title and license transfer). Taurus MSRP prices have not risen but about $200-$300 since then. Two years later and at 20K miles, no squeaks, rattles, or problems of any sort. There are good alternatives out there.

alpha01 · November 2002

could this be an ABS self test? can someone confirm/disprove?
~alpha

tomgreen1000 · November 2002

I suppose this could be some type of ABS self-test. I really don't know, as this is the first vehicle that is ABS equipped, that either my wife or I has owned. If this is a self-test, I guess I would be surprised at the sound level of it. It isn't extremely loud, but it is definitely audible. It is not something I am "trying" to hear.

I will be really happy if it is a self-test though.

Thanks!

Tom

toyotaken · November 2002

That actually may be the case, but from driving Toyota's with ABS for a while it is a bit different. The self test is usually about 10 seconds after starting the vehicle and is a bit of a "grinding" noise and if you're foot is on the brake when it does it, it feels just like the ABS system working when you're stopping on slippery surfaces. I don't usually hear a clunk and it's normally almost inaudible. Without being in his vehicle, I couldn't say definately though.

billmahan · November 2002

I don't mean that personally, but if you buy a similarly equipped Taurus and a Camry, the Camry will definitely cost you AT LEAST $2000 more. Maybe even $3000. I don't even think that is debatable. I have 3 Camrys and, while we negotiated "reasonable" prices, I could have purchased a similarly equipped Taurus for a whole lot less. Ones that had auto-trunk releases, too!

I bought the Camrys each time BECAUSE I didn't want all the little annoyances (and some big) that come from GM, Ford, and especially Chrysler. Our '94 V6 XLE was terrific. Our '97 V6 XLE a little less terrific. And our SLE V6 Solara has more rattles than Toys R Us.

If Toyota continues to "de-content" their Camrys and let slide the fit and finish, why am I paying more for that? I sat in a 2003 XLE the other day and the leather is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the quality of the leather in our '97 XLE. At some point they have to justify to me (and a lot of others) why I am paying a premium for the Toyota name. You can talk about FUTURE resale value until the cows come home. But I hear those freaking rattles TODAY! (I won't even get into the "alignment" issues! But, two different dealerships were never able to fix the rattles in our 2000 Solara from day one. Oh, and when the water pump went out on our '94 XLE, they wanted $900 for a new pump! Good god, that's 1/20th of the base price of the car when it was new. I did get a rebuilt one for $300, but you do have to calculate those higher repair costs into the Total Vehicle Ownership.

Would I buy a Taurus today? Maybe, maybe not. But if Toyota remains on the same downward glide path that it is on today, I might think about looking at a Honda, Nissan, or even a domestic. I'm loyal, but it's a two way street and Toyota cannot continue to take its customer base for granted.

Sorry for the long post. But I do think you should check actual purchase prices between similar Camrys and Tauruses. There is quite a bit of real world difference there.

Hey, I love Toyota and they have been, overall, very reliable cars. But, as they say, "What have you done for me lately?" When domestic dealers took the attitude that you just have to accept lower quality, consumers went elsewhere. They will do the same thing if Toyota takes on the same attitude. Let's help Toyota avoid that mistake by demanding premium quality for a premium price.

gnc · November 2002

In what cities are the "RDS" and "Traf" operational in? I live in a metropolitan town in the SouthEast and was disappointed I couldn't get the traffic alerts.

By the way, I have about 700 miles on vehicle which I traded "up" from a Mercedes Benz ML. The Camry is wonderful and surpasses the MB in build quality, comfort, quietness, and safety. Glad I got rid of the SUV and rejoined the ranks of sane drivers.

atoews · November 2002

I have read the posts from about Nov 3, and have noted many comments about deterioration of Toyota quality.

Does anyone have the opinion that perhaps diminishing quality has to do with increasing number of vehicles manufactured in the USA versus Japan? I recall that one of the selling points the Lexus dealer used on me was that Lexuses are all made in Japan, where there is "better quality control".

Also, can anyone confirm that a VIN number beginning with "J" means the car is made in Japan whereas a numerical first digit means made in USA? If this is the case, one might want to consider purchasing a Camry with a "J" Vin number. I live in Ridgecrest, California and every Toyota vehicle on the dealers' lot has a VIN number beginning with "J".

Also, I suspect that owners' expectations are increasing as time goes on. I find myself looking for rattles in my Lexus and being a little upset at the tiniest one. Maybe we all need to remember that these are autos, not Beverly Hills custom-built mansions. :-)

megawattblues · November 2002

We got about 8" of snow here in CT Wednesday. Perfect opportunity to check out the 4 new Kumho I'zen winter tires on our '97 Camry.

In a word: Fantastic! Go, stop, turn - all with confidence on wet slippery unplowed roads.

I ran the same route immediately after with our 2002 4WD Highlander with stock Dueler tires. Although the 4WD gets you going ok, the Highlander was sloppy & scary where the Camry was composed and confidence inspiring.

I guess now I'll be looking for some decent tires for the HL.

fredvh · November 2002

Yes, a Toyota Camry that is made in Japan will have the first digit of the VIN as "J". If it is made in the USA the first digit will be "1". It seems that most Camrys that are brought to California are made in Japan.

rubicon52 · November 2002

I used the TMV prices to compare the cost of a new Taurus vs. a new Camry because I wanted a set of objective pricing criteria and my experience was that the TMV prices were reasonable. In fact, car prices vary with region, the weather, manufacturer's rebates, whether you have a friend at the dealership, etc. I simply can't account for all these variables. Let's assume that you can purchase a new Taurus for $2000 less than a comparable Camry. For any kind of valid cost analysis resale value must be considered. Yet, you state:

"You can talk about FUTURE resale value until the cows come home. But I hear those freaking rattles TODAY!"

I went to the Kelly blue book website and calculated the trade-in value of a three year old Camry LE V-6 with 45K miles and in good condition and a similar Taurus SE. The difference was $3015. I would gladly pay $2000 today to get $3015 in three years. My point is that there really isn't much of a premium involved with buying a Toyota. And the reason there isn't is because Toyota has been decontenting their cars because they want to remain competitive on price. I believe Honda is doing the same. There are several forums on Edmunds talking about slipping quality at Honda.

I also have an issue with your statement about higher repair costs with Toyota. Toyota parts may cost more per part, but you need fewer of them. My 7 Toyotas over an 18 year period have averaged $25 per year per vehicle for repair costs (not maintenance costs). Are you telling me that Ford products are better than this?

Totally agree with your observation about seeing poorer build quality with Toyotas over the years. I have seen the same with my Toyotas. However, the drive trains are just as reliable if not more reliable. My 96 Tacoma just had its first repair. My 87 pickup was not quite as good.

In summary (sorry for the long post), Toyota has intentionally decontented their cars to remain cost competitive. The build quality has slipped. I suspect that Toyota believes that most buyers are not willing to pay a premium for superior build quality in a mass market car like Toyota. If you're unhappy with that, buy a Lexus and you will get the old Toyota build quality and more. Of course, now you really will pay a premium of several thousand dollars.

canc · November 2002

After reading the most recent posts about Toyota build quality, I have this question: If Toyota's quality slipped, are they still any better than GM/Ford/Chrysler? Lutz has been touting that his cars are now just as reliable and well-built as any Toyota, yet the public's perception differs from this. Any comments?

carrelman2 · November 2002

I'm looking to purchase an extended warranty for a 2003 XLE V6 which I just took delivery of this past Tuesday after waiting 2 months for the dealer to get a car with the exact equipment I ordered. Would any Toyota dealers please submit a qoute on a platinum warranty.No outside warranty companies please. Thank you.

anonymousposts · November 2002

As compared to what? Their cars are just as reliable as they have ever been. The only difference between a 1992 Camry and a 2002 Camry is that in 1992 we didn't have outlets like Edmunds which allow us to see a limited number of people post about every little squeak and rattle. If you consider the number of Camrys that have been sold since 1992 (approx. 4 million) a couple of people on Edmunds saying Toyota quality has declined doesn't amount to much.

We all must remember that cars are a sum of thousand of parts that must all work together at the same time. A little rattle or a loose trim piece is very small in the scheme of things.

rubicon52 · November 2002

I think we've been talking about two parameters - reliability and build quality. Reliability pertains to the failure rate of the mechanical and electrical systems. Over the past 20 years or so the Toyota Motor Company has made the most reliable cars in the world (source: JD Power dependability study, Consumer Reports reliability ratings). Whether the current Toyotas remain as reliable is an unanswered question. It takes a few years of use to measure reliability.

Most of the recent complaints on these forums have pertained to build quality - how carefully the car is assembled (and maybe the quality of the materials used). Namely, squeaks, rattles, interior fit and finish. It's possible to have a very reliable car with lousy build quality and vice versa.

Don't know about Mr. Lutz's claim of equaling Toyota's quality. Is he talking about reliability, durability, build quality? However, his selection of Toyota as the quality benchmark definitely says something about Toyota.

cliffy1 · November 2002

Lutz has made a few comments about Toyota. One of his more recent ones went something to the effect that the Camry, by itself is ugly but the car is absolutely beautiful because of the amazing level of precision build.

toyotaken · November 2002

For those who have been so adamant about the Camry having so many more squeaks and rattles compared to their competitors, look at the Honda board and you'll see the same type and number of complaints about the same thing. IMO, it is something that has been there on older cars, but the new ones are just so quiet going down the road, the normal sounds of interior pieces rubbing is more noticable now.

coolguyky7 · November 2002

And the people that hated their 1992 Camrys wouldn't be reading and posting on the Camry board!

alpha01 · November 2002

IMO, Toyota has certainly begun to recontent these (Camry) cars. I know I keep saying it, but our 2002 (US built) is substainally studier in terms of interior quality and substance than our 2000 (Japan built). Explicitly, I am refuting the idea that Toyota HAS CONTINUED TO DECONTENT/PERCEIVED QUALITY HAS CONTINUED TO with this generation. From my experience, this is not the case.

Additionally, if you look at the MSRP stickers for our two othewise identical vehicles, (well.. before we added dealer installed alloys and security on the 02 which our 2000 doesnt have) you'll see that new Camry is a tremedously better value, especially factoring in a more efficient, much stronger engine and the aforementioned quality/content enhancements.

2000 LE 4 cyl w/ABS, pwr drivers seat, keyless, floormats, mudguards = $21,480

2002 LE 4 cyl w/ABS, pwr drivers seat, keyless, floor and trunk mats = $21,349

Would I buy a Taurus? Probably not. Lets assume that the two score the same on all QUALITY measures (perceived and otherwise). The fact that the Camry is simply more refined, efficient, quiet, smooth, of a newer design and has better resale value COMPLETELY negate any purchase price advantages for me. (IMO, the Camry is better looking as well).

-alpha

anonymousposts · November 2002

I will agree that the 1997-01 Camry was a step back when compared to the 92-96 Camrys. But the 02's are going back in the right direction. Again, you must remember that considering the number of these things that are sold the complaints on here are pretty few and far between. If you think there is a better-built mid-size $20-25,000 sedan out there than the Accord or Camry when it comes to build-quality and reliability then by all means buy it.

nippononly · November 2002

that Camry (corolla too, but that is another story!) is being recontented is the elimination of the 'CE' trim - now that was truly a basic car. Actually it was an advertising ploy for Toyota to be able to say they had a Camry with a base price of $17K, when in fact they did not sell any without $4K worth of options, so that their REAL base price for Camry was $21K.

But the content is definitely there for the '02 on. They are back to being as nice inside (not to mention more roomy) as the 92-96 version...

coolguyky7 · November 2002

I sat in my cousin's gold 96 Camry yesterday. I really liked that model. We had a green 92 and another green 96 model.

canc · November 2002

Thanks for the recent posts. I read many good points, and it's true that back in 1992 we didn't have access to services like Edmunds.com, and so we only heard the neighbour's complaint about his squeaking Accord.

Lutz commented on how beautifully the Camry is built, no matter how ugly it is (and that's subjective, I find it nice). His point was that GM could make an attractive, stylish car with Toyota's build quality.

After logging off here, I had to drive into the city and looked around at the other cars on the road. It's funny to see how many old Corollas and Camrys are still going strong. I even saw an early 80s Celica yesterday driving around in the slush!

nippononly · December 2002

never built a better car than the '83-'85 celicas - they just wouldn't die, although they were the last of the early breed of Japanese cars that would rust away into nothing before the powertrains would quit.

The first camrys from '84 on were much better for rust, although there were a few kinks in the engines on the very first camrys, which was all fixed by the time the 2nd gen '87 was introduced.

rubicon52 · December 2002

When we talk about Toyota decontenting their cars it can have the negative connotation of Toyota taking away something that buyers have come to expect from Toyota. But there is also a very positive effect on value.

I have a 95 Camry V-6 and a 01 Solara V-6. I calculated that in terms of 1995 dollars (allowing 3% for inflation) both cars cost the same amount of money when new. Yet, my Solara has thousands of dollars worth of features that my Camry doesn't such as leather seats, ABS, power drivers seat, alloy wheels, JBL sound system, auto climate control, auto dimming mirror, fog lights. The trade off is that a couple of trim pieces in the 01 Solara (glove box, coin tray)don't fit as well. The Solara also has a squeak in the seat. No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of buyers would be willing to sacrifice the few build quality glitches to gain all the extra features.

nippononly · December 2002

actually, I am not willing to make that sacrifice, but I am a perfectionist!

Plus, I don't mind winding up my own windows, hate leather seats and auto-everything.

The only trend in new car contenting that I whole-heartedly approve of is much better stereo systems. For the amount of time I spend in my car, I need a great sound system, and it has been such a hassle over the years to buy a new car and then head straight to the stereo store.

New car stereos are finally reaching the point where I don't have to immediately replace them.

And, I really like to have A/C. Beyond that, I feel there is a lot of overkill going on in cars today, the latest for camry being power seats on every model, even at the price of a $1000+ option package.

jpryba · December 2002

"(Toyota) never built a better car than the '83-'85 celicas - they just wouldn't die, although they were the last of the early breed of Japanese cars that would rust away into nothing before the powertrains would quit."

nippononly, my dad bought me a used 85 Celica that died on me twice, but at least it didn't rust away on me. I guess the lack of rust was the first reason why we fixed the engine after it blew a rod at 72K miles (back in 95), but we just scrapped the car after the transmission went out at 114K in the fall of 97. I guess that with these old Toyotas, you have to have some rust to let all the mechanical goblins escape. Otherwise, they stay put and blow head gaskets and stuff

canc · December 2002

I was reading a car guide book over the weekend, and happened to fall on a car review verdict about used Camrys. They said that it was a fabulous, comfortable car, but to watch out for the transmission after 75,000 miles. Is there any reason why they said this? I never heard of a transmission going out on a Toyota before, and was told that they were one of the best transmissions around.

The 85 Celica I saw plowing through the snow last week looked in pretty good shape. Very little rust, and it seemed to run well. I also saw this very early 80s Civic on the highway. I think it had been repainted, but was still running!

cliffy1 · December 2002

That sounds to me like a publication that was looking for something to say and figured referencing a mystery transmission issue would make them sound credible. I've never heard so much as a whiff of rumor related to Toyota transmissions (other than the new 5 speed in the Lexus)

jander111 · December 2002

Most of my friends and I bought used Toyota or Honda cars back in college. Here is what I know from our experience with these old cars:
One 88 camry V6, AT gone at around 125k miles.
One 91 civic (100k) and one 89 Legend (130k), timing belt snapped. For whatever reason, both engines are not damaged, even though they are interference engines.
One 89 camry I4, engine seized at 180K, AT is original. And I know the car is not babied at all and driven hard.

rubicon52 · December 2002

My impression was that Toyota transmissions are even stronger than their engines. Don't remember ever seeing a reference to Toyota transmission problems. I believe the problem in the new Lexus 5-speed is a software problem.

rubicon52 · December 2002

Know what you mean. The features I named come standard on the Solara SLE. However, I still think the majority of the buying public wants the features. Nice to play with when the car is new. Maybe not so nice to repair a few years down the road. BMW is one of the few manufacturers to offer a quality product without all the options. But, I understand that if you buy a stripped BMW it is very difficult to find a buyer at resale time.

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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