Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

toyotaken · January 2003

Actually, this was something that I learned just yesterday while I was at a training from the Toyota representative there. I asked him specifically about the "2-star" rating from the NHTSA and he described to me why this was so as well as the changes they made. First, the test done by the NHTSA is a static test. That is to say that the car is parked while the drag a "sled" into the side of it. The placement of the sled is directly between the A and B pillar. This is despite the fact that the GREAT majority of side impacts are the result of red-light running so both vehicles are moving.

But Toyota took a look at sales numbers for the US last year and more than 50% of the vehicles sold in the US last year were trucks or SUV's. These almost all have higher bumpers than cars so they raised the door beam for the front seat occupants to protect them from the most likely vehicle to hit them with more severe force. The sled the NHTSA uses is the height of a typical car bumper, so came in under the door beam on the Camry.

The changes they did following the test were basically limited to adding slightly more reinforcement to the doors but they will not compromise the safety of the occupants in real-world situations to gain an additional "star" rating. This was as was told to me from the Toyota rep. yesterday.

Hope this helps describe what happened.

Ken

cliffy1 · January 2003

ABS is a "stand alone" option on the 4 cylinder and standard on the V6. You can't get traction control on the 4 cylinder.

In answer to your winter handling question, I can tell you heavier does not mean better. In fact, the best car I have ever driven that was not 4WD is the Corolla. It has to do with weight distribution and tires. The Camry has relatively wide tires. That is great for comfort and handling but is a detriment to handling in snow. Narrow tires cut through the snow and give you a better chance of finding traction while wide tires distribute the car's weight over a wider area and therefore sits on top of the snow. Wider is NOT better all the time.

wmquan · January 2003

Ken,

Thank you for the information, that is very interesting. If the rep is correct, it confirms that Toyota did indeed make a design change for the 2003. That would strongly suggest that the 2-star driver's side-impact result for the 2002 was not anomalous.

It IS true that the NHTSA test only simulates a relatively smaller vehicle hitting the test subject, and not one of the bigger SUV's or minivans that are so prevalent nowadays. I know that IIHS is working on a side-impact test that simulates a larger, taller vehicle hitting the subject. The rumor has it that quite a few vehicles will not perform as well in that test.

But, until that test is available, the NHTSA test is the only game in town (along with the EuroNCAP testing, but the new Camry hasn't been tested there yet). Whether or not the higher beam in the Camry truly provides sufficient high-bumper protection relative to other vehicles is unproven. Perhaps the Camry will do very well in the new test, perhaps not.

However, IMHO, I don't buy into the Toyota rep's reasoning about not compromising safety. Toyota simply could have added enough reinforcement to protect against both lower and higher bumpers, albeit with some weight penalty. By raising the beam for the 2002, they obviously lowered the protection against vehicles with lower bumpers, and had to compensate by adding reinforcement to the 2003. That reinforcement, even if only for a 3-star rating, should have been there from the beginning.

Then the other question is, is Toyota doing this with other sedans or not, or is this exclusive to the Camry -- and if so, why? The new Corolla gets four stars side-impact for the driver without side airbags. Is the beam in it too low to protect against SUV's? Or is its side-impact construction simply better for various bumper heights? (Side-impact test results can be compared across weight classes, so it's valid to compare the Corolla's side-impact score with the Camry.)

Thank you again for sharing this information!

toyotaken · January 2003

A couple of add-ons for you. The IIHS does much more comprehensive testing on most vehicles and publishes all of their results. So to get a more complete picture on it's capabilities, you can check out their website. www.highwaysafety.org

They also publish actual forces on different parts of the dummies to guage the overall effect within vehicles having the same classification of safety.

As for the Corolla doing well, remember, with it being a smaller car, the A and B pillars are closer together so the sled they used may have had more of the impact absorbed by the pillars where in the Camry having a large door, the door itself had to absorb the whole impact.

That is why I made the comment about how they do their testing. The NHTSA as a good resource, but they haven't changed their testing for many years. For example, the 35 mph test full-frontal into a fixed barrier hasn't changed for 35yrs. This is not very realistic to real-world situations. The testing done by the IIHS tends to be more rigorus as well as more real-world in their applications.

Just hope this helps.

Ken

wmquan · January 2003

I agree with you that the IIHS offset frontal crash test simulates more real-world situations than the NHTSA test, but will add that considering both of them together is more real-world than considering either test alone. A full-frontal test stresses the restraints of the vehicles heavily, suggesting what may happen in a chain-reaction collision, etc.

Unfortunately IIHS currently does not have a public side-impact test, so the only measurement we have is the NHTSA side-impact test.

As far as the Corolla goes, the A-and-B pillars being closer together might help, but smaller vehicles typically have their own limitations that often lead to lower results in side-impact tests.

It'll be interesting to see how a side-airbag-equipped Camry will fare in the crash test (whenever that test occurs). The 2002 ES300 got 5-stars for the driver's side impact, with side airbags. I'm curious to see if the 3-star differential in score vs. the 2002 Camry is purely because of the side airbags, or because the ES300 has a better side-impact structure in its door. The former is highly unlikely as I don't recall any differential that large with the addition of side airbags. The latter is probably more likely, which would then beg the question of why Toyota didn't put the ES300's side-impact protection into the 2002 Camry (and possibly the 2003).

Thanks again.

bartalk2 · January 2003

I wonder how much difference in power the new V6 will make. It may be minimal, The Avalon, which has that same engine, apparently, hasn't set any speed records, to say the least, and just about matches the current Camry V6 in acceleration. Of course, it outweighs the Camry by a couple of hundred pounds or so. Also, as someone noted, the Toyota 5-speed transmission in the Lexus ES300 has been very troublesome for many drivers and noted by CR and many car mags.

andrelaplume · January 2003

When it comes time to replace the tires can I put a narrower tire on? Will there be a noticable difference in the snow? Will my ride degrade noticable? What would you reccomend?

slotoy · January 2003

Shown below is the text of an email I received today. I had originally inquired about the new VVT-i engine at this dealership.

Hey Mr. (deleted)!

Just a quick thought, this info on the new V6s came through the dealer
website recently and I wanted to touch base with you and say hi.

The new V6 incorporates Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (VVT-i) for
improved power and torque without any reduction in fuel economy. The
engine produces 210 horsepower @ 5,800 rpm and 220 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4,400
rpm, significant improvements compared to the old engine’s 192 horsepower
and 209 lb.-ft. The new engine utilizes an Electronic Throttle Control
System (ETCS-i) and Acoustic Control Induction System (ACIS) for superior
throttle control, drivability and NVH. Camry V6 models also receive a new
5-speed automatic transmission for enhanced performance and refinement.

The upgraded V6 engine and transmission combined with the previously
announced January value enhancements will further reinforce Camry as the
best choice in the competitive mid-size sedan segment.

ooooooooh. aaaaaaaaah.

I'll contact you when more info arrives. Thanks for your time.

(name deleted)

cliffy1 · January 2003

Now THAT is a dealership and salesman who is on top of things. They may have been a little late getting the information but at least he is doing some great follow up. A guy that puts that much effort into considering your needs deserves a shot at your business.

slotoy · January 2003

Exactly my thoughts... He showed the same interest and enthusiasm this past summer when he sold my son a new LE. His dealership is a 50 mile drive; but that kind of responsiveness makes it worthwhile.

drmp · January 2003

Please post your driving experience with camry v6 vvti with 5 speed auto. Thanks

billmahan · January 2003

The Navigation system. Does it compare well with others? Have you used it? And what does it cost to keep the mapping software updated.

Thanks, I hope you are doing well.

toyotaken · January 2003

From what I've seen from the other manufacturers, the NAV system on the Toyota's and Lexus bands seems to be pretty easy for the user to interface with. The only drawbackt that I've read about it is that they have alot of the audio controls on the touch screen as well and they're hard to find without looking at the screen.

They all work via GPS and use a DVD disc for the most recent list of streets and landmarks. The replacements discs are about $300-$400 each, but don't need replacing typically for every 3-5 yrs depending on how quickly they're developing the area that you're in so that you get an updated map of the area.

The pro's are that it is VERY quick and easy to use especially with the touch screen. The drawback is that other than in the Landcruiser and LX470, you can't watch DVD movies on the system like many other aftermarket systems will allow.

Hope this helps.

Ken

anonymousposts · January 2003

" guess the magazine goes with the newest cars that come out"

If that's true how come the 2002 Accord (which was a 5 year old design at the time) placed higher last year than both the newly redesigned Altima and the Camry?

mackabee · January 2003

Seems to have a biased opinion to any Honda product from what I've read. I take what they say with a grain of salt.
Mackabee

talon95 · January 2003

Lots of their recent results defy this perception. Consider the 3rd place finish for the MDX in a recent SUV test. The 5th place finish for the Civic in last year's small car test. The 5th place finish for the TL-S in the last sports sedan test.

It seems that the clearest "bias" that C/D has regarding Hondas is that the Accord seems to best define what they think a family car should be. Because it's the Accord that they keep ranking at the top. But so did Consumer Reports and Road and Track, so C/D is hardly alone.

ksmith38 · January 2003

'03 LE Auto?

cliffy1 · January 2003

Toyotaken hit the nail on the head.

astorey1 · January 2003

I got 370 on my first tank..

srhom · January 2003

I have a 2000 Camry 4 cylinder. After I unlatched the two clips to open up the air filter enclosure to change the filter, I could barely pry the enclosure open enough to get the old filter out and the new one in. On the right side of the enclosure as you look into the engine compartment standing over the left front wheel, there are a bunch of things attached to the enclosure that did not move very freely. Does anyone know whether you're supposed to disconnect some of this stuff when changing the air filter, or is it OK just to gently pry the darn enclosure open like I did without disconnecting anything? Hope I didn't wreck anything!

drmp · January 2003

I wonder if the SE suspension has less tendency to sag when loaded with passengers compared to the non-SE. Also how is the road noise of the SE?

toyotaken · January 2003

The suspension on the SE model is a bit firmer than on the other models of the Camry, so it should handle passengers a bit more firmly than them. It is not a HUGE difference, however, so you shouldn't see a "night and day" difference. As for road noise, the performance tires they use are have a little bit more road noise and from when I've driven them, there's a bit more feedback noise from road irregularities, but I don't know if that is more of a result of the tires or the firmer suspension, but I would guess the suspension has more to do with that.

Hope this helps.

Ken

cliffy1 · January 2003

what he said.

slotoy · January 2003

Just left the official Toyota Web site...they are now showing the 210HP VVT-i V-6 engine on the specs page for the Camry. Interestingly enough, there is no mention of the 5sp Automatic Transmission...still showing the 4sp Auto w/overdrive. Anybody have any further knowledge about what or when for the transmission.

toyotaken · January 2003

They're going into the Camry at the same time, I'm sure that it is just that they're updating the website.

Ken

ralpi · January 2003

Went to check the filter location last week on my '02 4cyl XLE, but a quick search has not yet uncovered the spot! Granted, it has been cold here in NY lately, and I did not spend too much time on the ground of my unheated garage. But if someone can point me in the right direction, I would be grateful. It cant be under all that plastic cladding, right? First Oil change was done by dealer, but I prefer to do it myself (as soon as I find the filter!)
Regards

toyotaken · January 2003

On many of the newer Toyota 4cyl engines, they've relocated the oil filter to under the engine. If this is where it is, when you get under the vehicle to remove the drain plug, it should be pretty evident. They did this to prevent oil from dripping all over the engine when the filter is romoved and to make it convenient to have both within reach when changing the oil. I don't know that this is where it is definately, but I'll find out for you and post back here later.

Ken

confuseddesi · January 2003

A quick Qn. Does Camry XLE 2003 have steering wheel mounted Audio Controls?

Thx

stnick · January 2003

I have been shopping for a new Camry and was somewhat amazed that Toyota put such a lousy tire on their highest priced model, the XLE with 215x65r16 tire & aluminum wheel package. All the XLE's I looked at had Bridgstones with a wear rating of 160! The LE's with 15" wheels had Continental tires with ratings of 520, and some Goodyears with 450 wear ratings. I was dissapointed in that a $25000.00 top model car would have a far worse wear rated low milage tire while the cheaper models were so much better. Puzzling? Nick

alpha01 · January 2003

FYI- the higher treadwear rating doesnt mean that its a better tire. I'd happily have taken the added performance of a set of grippier OEM tires. The Continentals that you speak of, at least on our LE, howl, squeal, and spin easily. Not so reassuring in the rain. Otherwise, the our 02 Camry has been outstanding over the first 22K miles. My guess is that the Bridgestone will give you a better ride, handling, and braking than the tires on the cheaper models. What series of Bridgestones are the XLE tires?
~alpha

drmp · January 2003

Can you clarify if the new camry has 5 spd auto or not?

ralpi · January 2003

My '02 XLE also came with the Bridgestones. While I am a Michelin advocate, the Bridgestones (Potenza RE92) are very comfortable and smooth, and handle acceptably. As far as wear, I only have 9k miles on my car in first year, and I do not have any expectations they will be as durable as Michelins I have owned. One very bad point about these tires: not good in the snow. I will possibly install dedicated snow tires next winter. We do not have much snow on LI, so if you live where this is a concern, different tires may be in order.

toyotaken · January 2003

The new V6 engine available on the Camry with VVT-i will have the 5sp auto transmission. This transmission will ONLY be mated to this engine, so will not be on the 4Cyl or older V6 engines.

Hope this helps.

Ken

stnick · January 2003

Alpha 01. They are the Bridgestone Potenza model, probably the same as what is on ralpi's 02 XLE, previous post. I understand about tire ratings. The temp and traction ratings on this tire are A and A so they have some attributes. BUT, there are a large number of tires out there of many different brands that have good traction, quietness, and a far better wear rating than do the Potenza thats on the XLE. I just feel that Toyota could have put a longer wearing tire on that class of car. They probably do ride softer and quieter than some, usually attributed to softer rubber compounds,faster wear. No biggy, I could wear them out or take them off as many people seem to do with OEM tires. Regards, Nick.

frank135 · January 2003

Hi,

I'd appreciate it if someone can answer my following questions:

Is the 2003 Camry 4dr LE automatic supposed to have the security
alarm? What about cigarette lighter and ashtray? How do I find
out if security alarm is installed and works. Here's the
details:

I bought a 2003 Camry 4dr LE with auto transmission on Jan. 19
with the following options:
   Code Description
         50 state emission
   AB antilock brake system
   BE side & curtain air bags
   DJ JBL radio/casette/CD package with 8 speakers
   Z1 Pref. package #1

The car was made in November last year. It has keyless entry and
power driver's seat. The salesman told me that if the remote
control has a red panick button, which it does and the button
works, the security alarm is installed. The driver's manual says
that the alarm is armed after the key is removed and all doors
locked, and the alarm will go off if the door is opened using
neither the key nor the remote control. Well, I unlocked the
car, turned the key to ACC, lower some windows, exited the car,
closed and locked all doors. After a couple of minutes, I
reached over the lowered window and pulled the small lever to
unlock the door (without using the key or the remote control),
and opened the door. Nothing happened. No sound, no blinking
lights. The salesman claims that the alarm will go off only if
someone pries open a door. The car keys I have are the regular
ones, not the ones with transponder chips.

The manual also mentions a security indicator light on the
dashboard near the 12V power outlet. Such a light does not exist
in my car. So, do I have the alarm or not? If I do, how do I
find out if it works? If I don't, is the alarm supposed to be a
standard feature or do you have to add it as an option?

BTW, there is no cigarette lighter or ashtray either. Are these
supposed to be standard features on the LE?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Frank

toyotaken · January 2003

The LE model of the Camry does not have either an ashtray or cigarette lighter or Alarm as standard equipment. The ashtray and lighter are accessories that you can get from the parts/service department. They go where the 3rd cup holder is in front of the gear shift and have a cover that goes over them that works similar to the one that covers the other cup-holders.

As for the alarm, the way that you checked is exactly the way that I would have recomended that you check. Also if it has a factory alarm, it will ALWAYS have an security indicator somewhere on the dash. It is a black rectangular replacement that fits in one of the placeholders on the dash. When it is activated, it flashes with the red LED light in the center of the rectangle. The panic button is on the remote regardless of if the vehicle has an alarm or not. Also the code for the security system is either V3 for vehicles that don't have keyless on them already or V5 with vehicles that have standard keyless.

Hope this helps.

Ken

frank135 · January 2003

Ken, Thanks so much for your help. It amazed me to see your
answers so soon after I posted my message. And you described
everything clearly. Thinking you must be someone who know a lot
about Toyotas, I tooked a peek at your profile. Too bad you
don't work at a nearby dealership, or I'd recommend my friends to
go to you to buy Toyotas (I live in Maryland).

Thanks again for your help.

Frank

toyotaken · January 2003

Thank you for the compliment. I work hard to be as up-to-date about our products as possible and know how to work the systems on the vehicles. I appreciate the feedback. I'm just glad I was able to help.

Ken

ronnoc · January 2003

Is anybody besides me not happy about making the moonroof standard. One reason that I have always prefered the Camry over the Accord, in addition to the smoother quieter ride, was that I coud get it equipped closer to the way I wanted. That is I could get power seat, better sound system, etc. without getting the hole in the roof.
With the Accord it was the base LX or everything. At 6' 4'' I want headroom , not a hole in the roof. Why make it standard so that those who do not want them have to go farther down scale with regards to other features. Maybe Camry won't be a good option in the future.

alohaet · January 2003

Frank I just took delivery of my LE a week ago. As Ken stated they do not come with cig lighter or ashtrays. The security alarm system is an option which I highly recommend. I do have the security light indicator right next to the 12V input. I found out my security alarm worked by accident. I set the alarm with the remote where is says lock. Then realized that I needed something out of the trunk and I opened the trunk without thinking and the horn started honking and the lights started going on and off. So I know that it's there and functioning. I think I paid $359 for this option. Since the Camry is the most stolen car in America I think the security alarm is a good investment.

Ed

carrelman2 · January 2003

Sorry to say there are no steering wheel audio controls on the 2003 XLE. Instead Toyota sees fit to put the stupid controls for the message center on the steering wheel.In order to lower or raise the volume on the radio or change the station you have to take your eyes off the road as you drive. Who cares about the stupid MPG or other stupid things on the message center. The time and the temperature are more than enough.To be honest with you, had I known about this I might not have bought the XLE. My other car is an Acura TL with steering wheel audio controls and I love it.

anonymousposts · January 2003

Steering wheel audio controls are cool. However, since the Camry has excellent ergonomics it's not that big of a deal. There's a trade-off in every car in the Camrys price range.

slotoy · January 2003

ronnoc...depending on where you live this may not be a problem. I am in Georgia and have been told that most of the South Eastern Region dealers are ordering the SE with the moonroof as a "delete option". When they do that it drops the MSRP by $900. Not sure how they are working it on the XLE since I was only enquiring about the SE with moonroof.

canoe2 · January 2003

I just checked gas mileage for Camry V6 VTT-i, its spec has 20/28 (cty/Hw), but Avalon and ES300 which have the same engine and much heavier, they have better gas mileage (21/29 for Avalon, 21/32 for ES300).
I could not explain why ? Any one ?

frank135 · January 2003

Ed,
Thanks very much for the info. I wish I checked with this board before I bought my Camry. Since I did not ask for the security alarm and don't have one as I've found out, I'm thinking about going to a dealer to have the Toyota RS3200 PLUS security alarm installed. I got a quote of $585 parts and labor. The amount you paid for this option is a lot lower than what I have to pay now after taking delivery of the car. Like you said, a security alarm is a good investment. I'll go get one despite the higher cost.

Regards,
Frank

andrelaplume · January 2003

Question to all long time Toyota/Camry owners. We are having some real frigid weather here in PA. It's been between zero and 10 degrees of late. My Camry sits in a driveway but not a garage. I have noticed over the last few days that when I start the car the first time in the morning or after work that it starts right up but just as I turn and let go of the key I hear a brief grinding noise...sort of sound like gears rubbing or something. I can not say weather it does it once the car is warmed up because it's been too cold to run out and try it after it is parked for a half hour or so. Does anyone think this is a problem or simply due to the cold weather?

18fan · January 2003

It's been really cold here in the pits of Pittsburgh. I have noticed the same thing just over the last couple of mornings in my 96 Camry LE. Mine is within 100 miles or so of needing the next oil change, so not sure if it may be just a little low on oil.... (been too cold to check it!) But most probably attributable to the very cold temperatures. I, too, do not have a garage

but I am very thankful for the remote starter

jpsmith · January 2003

Hi, this is my first post to this board. I'm seriously considering purchasing a Camry LE V6 and am WAY interested right now since they are offering 0% APR/36 month financing. But I really want the new VVT-i engine. I believe that to get the 0% financing I have to buy a car off the lot, i.e. can't order one, and the 0% deal expires at the end of this month. Are there cars with the new V6 in dealer inventories right now?

mackabee · January 2003

Should be hitting dealer lots as we speak.
: )
Mackabee

cliffy1 · January 2003

There is an easy way to tell if the car you are looking at has the VVT-i. There are three new model numbers. 2552 is a V6 LE, 2554 V6 XLE and 2556 V6 SE. These will have the 5 speed auto. Some dealer's web sites give model numbers and you can check by searching using these numbers.

I just spoke with our inventory manager and they are building them now but none are at port yet.

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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