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Comments
My opinion is don't change the engine.
I really can't find much bad to say about car. The worst thing to me is that is has a bit of a "cheap car" feel over sharp bumps. My Audi is much more absorbant, but the Camry feels more like the Subaru in terms of impact harshness. The Camry seems to handle OK, but it is soft enough, understeers heavily, and has limited enough tire adhesion to discourage high G freeway ramp entrances - something at which the Audi excels. I did not have a chance to execute a "dodge the raccoon test." Gas mileage was at least 33 mpg over the 330 miles which were 90% highway. I say "at least" because I don't know for sure it was 100% full when I got it. I put in 10.1 gallons at the 332 mile mark just as I returned it.
I have driven a new Accord briefly, and found the Camry to have a more "airy" feeling interior. Honda used to have a lot beltline and a very open feeling to the interior, but I would say that honor now belongs to Camry.
The Camry does have a interesting "soporific" effect. It is so light and easy to drive that it does tend to lull you into inattention. I found myself a couple of times parked in the left lane at 80mph failing to remember to move over for faster traffic, and I missed a couple of turns because my wife and I were chatting away, which is easy due to the low noise level. I find this hard to characterize as a fault of the car -- more a fault of the driver.
It's not a sports car, but it is about the perfect generic sedan. I could live with one of these with no problem, and may buy one for our winter getaway place.
miserymule- Thanks for the comprehensive review! Camrys may be universally deridden for offering too much isolation, but for the majority of this vehicles target audience, this is a truly exceptional car. If you are seriously considering the Camry, take a look at the SE model- this firms the steering and ride/handling up a bit, which you may find to your liking, since you currently have the Audi and Sube.
regards,
~alpha
There wasn't another similiarily equipped model in my area. So while I could have done better on price, it seemed fair to me, and if I balked it would have sold to someone for sure. Dealer had 60 LE and XLE's in inventory.
Color is Stratosphere Mica.
Overall, a very sharp choice. Congrats again.
~alpha
Now I just have to add the alarm and mud guards to protect my new car.
Any suggestions? Toyota or aftermarket on the alarm?
Do you have an alarm? Factory, dealer or aftermarket?
Thanks!!
I live in the S.E. Region. I am seriously considering a Toyota Camry SE I4, Honda Accord EX or EX-L, Nissan Altima 2.5S, Mazda6i or 6s, and VW Passat Gls.
The problem with the Camry for me is the lack of SE models in this area. I have seen very few SEs and the ones I see are ALL autos. I want a stick shift.
I saw one Stick SE in Rock Hill, South Carolina, but it had no options.
My question to all you Toyota buffs (I am a Honda and Nissan buff).
Are SEs with ABS, Sunroof, Sunshade, Leather (Factory not Port installed),and Side airbags with manual tranny hard to find?
I may have to go upstate if I decide to get the Camry SE.
I did see a loaded SE the other day without the spoiler...and while I thought I liked it...it took some getting used too. I am so used to seeing the spoiler on the SE.
Thanks in advance
Also, can a Camry be ordered from the factory?
I live in the Central Atlantic region(Pennsylvania) and up here, you can order a Camry. I did in late September of 2001 and it arrived three months later. I have an SE and to get what I wanted ordering was the best way to go.
I'm not sure if the SE dealers can order since they have different option packages, etc. But you may want to check out one of the larger dealer websites in the SE region. I think they have a big database that is able to be accessed by the general public to see what is available where.
I remember checking the site of the dealer that I used to go to in Miami when I lived there.
alpha: I agree about Sratosphere Mica. I get so many compliments on my SE. The color really makes the car.
Surprisingly, I notice the listed price of SE V6 4 speed is $500 more than 5 speed in Edmunds. What is the difference between these two except that the 5 speed has more power (210hp vs. 192 hp in 4 speed)? Thanks,
maxamillion- you're a younger guy, right? glad to see I'm not the only one who appreciates cars like the Camry. If youd like, shootme an email, and I'll give you my AIM SN if youd like to speak real-time.
In answer to your question- jdeib's post is pretty comprehensive. Finding a manual Camry equipped the way you want it will be a task- but not an impossible one. If dealers give you a hard time, remind them politely that the Camry is a 400K/year volume seller, and if that particular dealership can't help you, you're confident another can.
Also, read this article regarding Holdback, another good piece of advice from Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html. Again, it will give you the upper hand in negotiations- you make it know that you are aware that ordering the car will allow the dealer to secure the entire "holdback" amount from the manufacturer- so why would the dealer be unwilling to do so?.
Finally, might I make a suggestion? If you don't need 4 doors and can wait about 6 months for selling prices to drop, get the Solara SE, which has more standard equipment at a slightly lower price than the Camry SE.
Best,
~alpha
I see the NIssan Altima has TC optional; how about the Camry SE or XLE V6?
Thanks
Deke
This now pushes me towards the Camry SE or XLE over the Altima. Don't like the sloping roof on the Nissan - I just KNOW someone's going to bang their head getting in or out (probably me).
Edmunds shows an XLE with most of the options should go for around $25G with a $28G sticker. If I go for an '03, they should be discounted soon. I guess no changes fo the '04 models?
Deke
It is my opinion that the incentives on the 03 will not be increased any further than the level they have already reached- I believe $750-$1500 rebate currently, dependent on the region of the US in which you live. If you can find an XLE V6 that with the equipment you want at a price you want, Id say go for it. If you want an SE perhaps wait to see if the engine upgrade is true- but, most likely, you'll pay more. Your call, I'm sure you will be happy with whatever you choose.
Best
alpha
I have the part on order for my car. It has annoyed me for so long now that I HATE driving this car. The dealer tried telling me all seats "slide a little" but upon escalating the issue to the Toyota Regional Customer Realtions person last year they acknowleged it on my FOURTH visit, and fixed it WRONG and made it WORSE..... NOW upon trying to get it fixed again they admit the issue has a NEW PART to replace.......WHAT OTHER RECALLS DOES 2002 CAMRY HAVE??????
The seat is also uncomfortable for people 5'6".
CONSUMERS REPORTS Magazine 2003 NOW shows CAMRY as ONLY AVERAGE in REPAIR QUALITY (2002) while all other Toyota models are still Excellent.
CAMRY NOW SHOULD BE AVOIDED. It is the worst car I ever bought new.
unhappy owner
Consumer Reports did rate the Camry's predicted reliability only "Average" based on the ownership experience of 2002 MY purchasers. However, many manufactureres, even Toyotas of the past, have had several first year redesigns drop slightly in the ratings. I'd be willing to guess that this rating will pick up at the next review.
As a reference, I'm 5'7 and have no problem with any of the Camry seats, front or back.
Best
alpha
Please see my PROBLEMS LIST but it includes engine noises/weakness and tranny jumping when cold problems and MANY PEOPLE WRITE of them on the boards. I have them ALL!!! The car S**ks to drive and the dealers all seem to be in denial. I had 3 prior Toyotas which were great.
The 2002 Camry is a LEMON and crap.
Ray
Also, please do not slam the Edmunds boards- they are one of the truly useful consumer based automotive tools on the web. If you dont agree with the structure here, nobody is forcing you to post. Among others I am sure, my experience here has been overwhelmingly one of increased automotive awareness, and I enjoy reading and writing about vehicles.
Best,
alpha
Additionally, I emailed a dealer that we almost purchased our 02 from, and he said this :
"Hi Joe, The 2004 Camry is due out early Sept. The only change that was mentioned that might come to life is a redesigned dashboard. The 2003 Camry recieved upgrades of standard power seat and keyless entry"
So maybe you are on the mark with the new dash design. Right now, its anyones guess. Toyota is always historically tight lipped with regards to the Camry- nobody new about the VVTi V6 introduced midyear until about a week before the announcement, for example.
~alpha
I am still trying to decide if I purchase an 03 LE, Auto, with Conv + B, Side AB, Antilock and the Mirrow. I just got a quote for $18,949 after $1K rebate, plus Tax and Tags. Should I go for it or get a fresh 04 and most likely lose the $1K?? Any ideas will be appreciated.
Best,
~alpha
PS- Is there any way you could scan the brochure or fax or whatever? I enjoy being the locus of Toyota/Lexus info for friends and family. (A somewhat dubious distinction, I suppose, given the vanilla brand connotation)
The Solara has always had a different dashboard and interior layout. The Solara's is more luxurious. This trend will probably continue. That's too bad.
I don't have fax capability but I got mine through a Dealer. Call your local Dealer and see if you can pick up an 04 Camry brochure!
The Dealer says he will get the 03 I want and that I can look it over before committing. Of course this has to be accomplished by Thursday. If the 03 is fresh with the right packages I'll probably buy it. I'll let you know!
My car battrey also leaks. But I still see the green light indicator on the battrey. The engine cranks and runs great. Why should a battrey leak. Can leak be associated with the ignition key to warm up.
Any thoughts please.
1) is it correct that any Camry that has ABS also has EBD (electronic brakeforce distribution, if I remember that right). This is NOT the case with Accords, but this is what a Toyota dealer told me about Camries. EBD is definitely a feature I want.
2) How important is traction control in a midwestern state with a winter? I can get an LE with ABS and curtain bags for, oh, mid 18K (is that too high?) but to get traction control I need to get up to a V6 XLE (is that right?).
That's getting up to the 21K range if i am correct. So--your thoughts please--do I need to do that? If so, why? Thanks!
I live in the midwest and agree that the additional features for driving on ice is worth the extra expense.
btw v6xle will cost more than 21k, that is v6le price
-I am sorry, but I do not know anything about leaking batteries.
-Any Camry equipped with ABS since the redesign for the 02 Model Year has EBD. This is not a feature that you will notice functioning, but I believe that it serves a good purpose- to best appropriate brake force.
-To get traction control, it is not necessary to purchase the XLE V6 Camry; the LE V6 and SE V6 also offer the VSC (which includes traction control) option. Thus, VSC is available on any V6 model, but none of the 4s. (V6 LEs with VSC/Side Airbag package will sticker for about $24K, and if you can get one for 21K, you've got a very decent deal, IMO).
~alpha
Have heard pro's and con's for both. Need input from current owners.
Many thanks to this individual.
I've tried to summarize what I saw, and most of it is already known, but here it is:
2004 Camry changes:
1. LE models: New 15-inch alloy wheel design (opt. 4 cyl./ std. V6).
2. New “Limited Edition” model includes LE 4 cylinder features plus:
§ Limited Edition Crystal White paint
§ Limited Edition Fawn fabric
§ Limited Edition Champagne pearl badging
§ Limited Edition embroidered floormats
§ Unique grille design
§ Fog lights
§ Unique 16-inch alloy wheels on P215/60R16 all season tires
§ Woodgrain-style interior trim
§ JBL Premium 3-in-1 AM/FM Cassette and 6 disc CD Changer w/ 8 Speakers in 6 locations and FM Diversity reception
§ Leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob
3. SE V6 models: 3.3L VVTi V6 producing 225hp @5600RPM & 240lb.ft. @3600 RPM and 5 speed Super ECTi transmission, rated at an Estimated 20/29 city/hwy
Mid-season 03 changes carried over:
4. LE and SE models: Power driver’s seat and keyless entry standard
5. SE models/XLE V6: Power moonroof standard
6. LE V6 and XLE V6: VVTi added to existing 3.0L V6, now produces 210hp @5800 RPM & 220 lb.ft. @ 4400 RPM and 5 speed Super ECTi EPA rated at 20/28 city/hwy
~alpha
--18fan
I agree with you- I would like to see ABS standard on all Camrys. BUT- at $300 MSRP as a stand alone option, I dont really see what the big deal is. Additionally, as recently stated, the Accords standard ABS does not include Electronic Brake force Distribution, as the Camrys does. ABS is standard on all trim lines of V6 Camrys, and on XLE 4cyl models.
Toyota didnt follow with the introduction of Side Curtains AND Front Side Airbags with the 02 Camry or the introduction of a NAV system, so there are a few exceptions to your broad statement.
The Camry does offer a 5speed auto trans in all V6 models. The 4 speed in the 4s is quite responsive and offers very good fuel economy, you may want to try it before you rule it out.
~alpha
For Limited edition, does " Unique grille design" have better look compared to old one ?
I think Camry should have 16" rim as standard for all models. This improves traction and handling.
I was surprised that 3.3L has better gas mileage on Hwy compared to 3.0L (I thought both were identical except displacement)
Thanks.
Deke
canoe2:
I dont know that the Limited's grille is better or worse, but it is more "chromey" and moves the Toyota logo dead center. I dont like white cars, and the Limited is available only in white. Yuck.
Also, it would have been nice to have 4 wheel discs on that model, since you're getting 16 inch wheels, why not upgrade the whole brake setup? There are only 4 options for the Limited: ABS, Side Airbags/Curtains, Power Moonroof, Power Pedals.
I am not sure, but I do not believe the 3.3L is the same as the 3.0 except for larger displacement- from what I understand, there were significant modifications made.
~alpha
I really wanted an SUV. About the only one that was a good enough size with almost all the options I wanted (which were most of the luxury options like leather, auto air, etc) and was in my price range of 20K to 25K was the Santa Fe LX. I looked at CPO and many other brands. Even with some models like the explorer having 3K rebates I still could not get the options I wanted in the price range I wanted.
So i looked at replcing my 96 Sable LS with another car. At first I did not look at the camry, but after a disappointing test drive of an altima, I went back to square one and discovered the camry XLE. It was perfect. It fit 98% of my needs and wants and was at the lower end of my price range. So i ordered one and I am very happy with it.
The reason i bring all this up is because I tried to rationalize the Hyundai, kinda like you are. I REALLY wanted an suv. I made the same arguments you are. The long warranty and I do not care about resale because I will drive it til it is dead. In the end I was still spooked by Hyundia's unreliability and low resale value and embraced Toyota's quality reputation. My thought was the warranty may be great but if it is in the shop every other month, thats not good for me. I also learned a better appreciation of resale values in the smart shopper boards. Unless you are willing to pay for gap insurance, what happens if your hyundia gets totalled in two years? Also in about 5 years, my camry should still be worth about 10K so I can trade it then and look for an suv in the 30K range. That will allow me to get a good quality full feature suv like i wanted this time. Hope this helps.