Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

dekester · September 2003

Visited some friends yesterday who just got an 03 LE 4 cylinder. Wife drove it and loved it, but sill wants the ABS and VSC package. Since ABS only comes in the V6 models, I priced one out on Edmunds. With the Convenience Plus package B and VSC/Side Airbag package, should be able to get it for $23,811. I think that's a good price. ANo more "haggle room"? No trade in and this will be a straight cash deal.

The Saturn L300 is about two grand MORE, and is less car in the long run.

After we get her Camry, we'll be checking out AAA's extended warranty services. Would LOVE to have that Hyundai-type 10 year warranty!

Now, just to pin the wife down to one color....Catalina Blue was the only choice until we saw a Phantom Gray Pearl last night. Geez!

onlyimports · September 2003

Mine is a phantom grey. I think silver is nice too with the 16" alloy wheel. Enjoy your Camry if you did get one and I think your wife will be happy with it.

fredvh · September 2003

I am interested in the Camry with the I4 engine and auto trans. Can anyone tell me what kind of mpg I can expect with mostly highway driving? Also, can someone tell me what the RPM are at exactly 70 mph? Thanks

bronzemaxell · September 2003

i have the 03 SE i4 Manual transmission,
last time i seen it the rpm is around 2600 to 2700rpm at 70mph on 5th gear
around 2100 at 60mph, and close to 3000 at 80mph
i think it is different on an auto.

miserymule · September 2003

My 2003 LE 4 cylinder automatic gets about 32mpg in highway travel. RPM at 70 is about 2500 (from memory -- I know that 60mph=2100). My normal commuting mileage (biased toward highway) is right on 30 mpg.

canoe2 · September 2003

All details that you want to know:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =2004camry_s

New 3.3L takes more gas than 3.0L as I expected.

alpha01 · September 2003

I'd gladly trade 1 mpg city for the extra 15 hp and 20 lb. torque that the 3.3L offers. From everything I've read regarding this engine in other Camry iterations, I think we'll see a zero-sixty in the 7.3 second range. Judging from the last (non VVTi) 3.0 that Car and Driver tested, this would represent an entire second improvement.

Additionally, I am intrigued by these specs, as I am almost positive in the 2004 Camry brochure, the 5ECTi/3.0 V6 combination is listed at 20/28 city/hwy EPA ratings. Either I am wrong, or those must have been preliminary measures.

Thanks for the specs post, canoe2!
~alpha

alpha01 · September 2003

Yea, there are definitely errors on that page. For example, check out the curb weights of the V6 models- thats for the old 192hp/4speed auto versions. The new curbs for the VVTi 3.0 5sp ECTi combo are not shown (or I dont see them), and neither is the nearly 3500lb curb weight for the 3.3L 5sp ECTi SE V6.

Also, this states that XLE models have side curtains standard, which has NEVER been indicated before. Youd think if this were true, it would show up SOMEWHERE, for example, the www.toyota.com, or the Camry brochure, car mags, etc.

~alpha

procivil · September 2003

Hi,

I have a 2003 xle 4cyl...and I love the car. I am thinking about purchacing the navigation system. Can you help me with the following questios:

-is the navigation system any good?

-can it be added on to my existing car? ( I have the jbl sound system)

-what would be a good price to pay for one?

-does the installation interfere with the sound system?

edmund2460 · September 2003

I have around 5K+ on my 03 V6 (5spd auto with the bigger engine). I am getting around 17mpg city and I have never gotten more than 25mpg on pure hghway driving. How does this compare with what others are getting?????

slov98 · September 2003

I also have the 03 V6 and the combined mileage I get is about 23mpg, mix driving but I don't have a daily commute, not stuck in traffic, that would make a difference.

canoe2 · September 2003

- 29.5 mpg over 700 miles (90% highway), traffic jam 40 minutes, full load. Average speed 75 mph

- 31.4 mpg over 300 miles (98% highway), full load. Average speed 73 mph

-Mix city and Highway over 400 miles, 1/2 load: 21.4 mpg

Fuel used: Regular with 87 octane

meadowlark1 · September 2003

Hello all,
I've been shopping for a new car to replace my 1991 Camry wagon. Over the past two days, a salesman at my local dealership has encouraged me to plan to buy a 2003(XLE V6 fully loaded). He assured me several times that they were still in plentiful supply.

Well . . . . when we began to talk numbers today he went off to see his manager and came back looking as if he was about to have a nervous breakdown. He announced that the "production year had ended" and they would no longer be able to get a 2003 from another dealer. To get the car I want, my only choice would be to buy a 2004.

I'm not opposed to buying an '04, but I'm wondering about this sudden change. The salesman offered to discount the '04 as compensation for the switch. The "discounted price" he quoted is very close to Edmund's TMV for the car.

Any comments will be welcomed. :-)

94supra · September 2003

I just did a quick search in the Southeastern region. There are about 25 2003 XLE V6 models left in the entire region and they seem to be going fast. The last shipments seem to be scheduled to arrive this weekend, so manufacturing has clearly shifted to the 04. A good deal on a 2003 XLE V6 made it rather desirable because nothing significant changes on that model for 04. You need to evaluate the quality of the deal you are going to get on an 04 on its own merits and try to determine if the salesman is just somewhat incompetent (he should certainly be aware of his pipeline) or if you were setup for a classic bait and switch. Good luck.

alpha01 · September 2003

94Supra knows his stuff- but I'd like to pose the question, even if this salesperson did "bait and switch", if he is offering you the 04 at very close to the 03 TMV, well thats a good thing- you car will, in theory, remain newer, longer.

~alpha

steveb84 · September 2003

At this time of year, inventory and availablity changes faster than at any other time.

The Chicago Region still has over 75 of the XLE V6 on the ground - of course different areas have different availablity.

I'd say if you can get the 04 at the 03 price go for it. Probably no rebate on the 04 vs. the 03, but it is a year "newer".

meadowlark1 · September 2003

Thanks for the feedback alpha and 94supra.

The salesman is offering me an 04 for $50 less than the TMV for 04's. Using the MSRP, Invoice and TMV figures from Edmunds, this will give the dealership a profit of $1732, which includes $500 dealer holdback from Toyota (2% of base MSRP).

The TMV for an 03 with the same options is $1500 less than the price the salesman offered for the 04.

Assuming the dealership would not receive the dealer holdback on an 03, if I paid the TMV for an 03 the profit to the dealership would be only $228.

As the salesman isn't offering anything better than the TMV for the 04 it's clear his statement that his price was "making it up to me for the switch to an 04" is baloney.

I can check with other dealerships to compare prices on the 04, but I'm also wondering if I want to stay with this dealership or go somewhere else to buy. The salesman seemed genuinely upset, but I can't help but feel I'm being manipulated. Maybe his nervousness was due to the fact that he was trying to pull one over on me.

I suppose I could check around to see if anyone has an 03 with everything I want and see what other dealerships are like. As I said in my first post, an 04 is fine with me, but then again, if I can save $2000 with an 03 why not go that route? I guess the bottom line is whether the 03's are still available or not.

The funny thing is that I went to the local dealership looking for an 04 and it was the salesman who suggested I buy an 03 instead!

Well, I will go forward and see what happens next. Thanks again for the feedback.

meadowlark1 · September 2003

Thanks Steve. How do you find out what's available in a given area? All I know about is looking at the dealership's inventory if it's available on the net.

meadowlark1 · September 2003

I hope I'm not taking too much space on this board! I was wondering if anyone has an opinion about how paying cash for a car figures into the bargaining. I plan to pay cash for my new car. I think this would be to the dealer's advantage, but I'm not sure how this might affect the purchase price, if at all.

pat · September 2003

Take all the space you want, that's what we are here for!

Also, don't miss the resources available on our Smart Shopper board and all of the great info under the blue Tips and Advice tab at the top of the page.

Keep us posted and good luck!

lok888 · September 2003

There shouldn't be any different for the purchase price if you plan to pay cash or finance. But I wouldn't mention paying off the car with cash when negotiate. I would add that I would like finance the car through the dealer and look for better deal on the car. This way, the dealer will have another money making opportunity at the finance department for selling extended warranty, auto alarm system, special paint and wax job or the bank process fee & handling fee.

steveb84 · September 2003

Since I'm an inventory manager I have access to view availablity in many parts of the country.

Looking at the New York Region (which NJ is part of) there appears to be fair amount of the 2003's XLE V6's still available. Of course I don't know what color or option combinations you are looking for.

Regarding your post talking about TMV's holdback etc. Remember, the best deal is one that you feel comfortable with. Within an hour or so I'm sure you could get pricing from many other dealers in your area. Too many people get caught up in "what the dealer is making off me" syndrome. Dealers are in business to make a profit - it's the American way. There is a saying in the car business "The happiest customers are the ones that paid the most" Why is that ? Because the salesperson will continue to take care of them after the sale and throughout the ownership experience. (I'm sure I'll get jumped on for saying that.)

If you don't feel comfortable with the salesperson or dealership that you are working with - find another one, there are many out there.

Good luck !!!

cliffy1 · September 2003

Let's see... as a dealer, I make money at 4 different points in the sale.

1. The sale of the car.
2. The sale of aftermarket stuff like undercoating.
3. The sale of money in the form of financing.
4. The sale of financial products like GAP and warranties.

A guy come into the store and announces he intends to pay cash and expects a lower price. As I dealer, what do you think the response would be? "Let me think, if I sell this guy a car and I *know* he is paying cash, I know I can't make any money on the financing and he will only qualify for one of the 4 financial products I sell. Further, from experience, I know he is less likely to buy a warranty or other aftermarket items because it just makes for a bigger check, rather than a small bump in monthly payments. Should I discount this car more for this opportunity to not make any more money?"

What do you think the answer is?

meadowlark1 · September 2003

I certainly understand that a dealer's got to make a profit and I'm happy paying a price which is fair to both the dealer and me. I included the info regarding the profit to the dealer in my previous post because I thought it would help to clarify the dealer's position in switching me to an 04 from an 03.

I've been checking around to see what's available and it's starting to look like I'll be buying an 04. There are a few XLE V6's around, but I'd rather not compromise on color and options.

I'm inclined to believe that the salesman simply hadn't caught up with the effect the Labor Day sale had on area inventory. I still feel a bit put off by his offer to "make it up to me" in offering the 2004 at a price equal to the TMV. Having said that, I try to give people a chance to make things right, so I'm going talk to him and see what he has to say.

meadowlark1 · September 2003

Thanks for the input. You've contributed to my education. :-)

Let me make it clear that I'm NOT looking for ways to cheat a dealer out of his rightful profit. I'm trying to get answers BEFORE these issues come up so I'll be prepared to do business in a way that's fair to the dealer AND fair to me. It's been 12 years since I bought my last car (a Camry wagon) so if I'm going to be an "educated consumer" I've got some homework to do.

Regarding cash deals - I thought dealers might welcome them for a few reasons:

1. more money up front (interest earned in their bank account, not mine)
2. no loan servicing necessary (I would think this would save the dealer a few $)
3. cash for the full purchase price might be more actual dollars earned than in the case of a lease agreement

Given the info you've provided, I guess these aren't strong enough reasons to make a cash deal preferable to a financed one.

Thanks again for your reply. :-)

lok888 · September 2003

So I think my guess was right. Not mention paying cash for the car could get a better deal. Sales reps usually ask how much you are going to put down. Paying cash for the car or showing you credit card to the sales manager is not a great interest for them. I always mention them that I will finance through the dealer and look for more discount.

Sorry cliffy. I can only buy 2 out of 4 the financial products, sale of the car and prep. fee.

meadowlark1 · September 2003

Sorry, I missed your post earlier. It certainly sounds as if your guess was right. My only question is, what do you do when it comes time to close the deal? Do you just say, "Oh I've decided to pay cash for the car." No disrespect intended, but this sounds a bit like *bait and switch* in reverse!

lok888 · September 2003

Once you signed the paper, you are no longer friend with the dealer.

cliffy1 · September 2003

I know this is a Camry discussion and what we are talking about is much more generic, but I'd like to expound on a few things since it was brought up.

First, financing is easy for us. It take almost the same amount of time to handle a contract as it does a cash deal. Even when we do a deal at "retention", meaning at our buy rate, we get between $100 to $250 from the bank so it pays to do a small amount of extra work. Besides that, we get our money nearly as fast anyway. Cashing a contract takes little more time the cashing a check.

Next, be honest. If asked how you intend to pay, just tell them you planned on paying cash but would certainly be open to discussing financing if they made it attractive enough.

My only reason for my original posting was to emphasize that you are not helping your negotiating position by proclaiming that you intend to pay cash. Its the same as announcing, "You have no chance at any form of profit, other than on the sale of the vehicle so you'd better decide now what level is acceptable to you. Once we settle on the price, you're done with any money making potential." You see, it has the opposite effect as you may have assumed.

meadowlark1 · September 2003

I'm learning. I'm learning! Thanks for the helpful info!

cliffy1 · September 2003

Not a problem. I hope it helps. I've always thought that educated consumers, dealing with respectful dealers can make this a much easier process. It takes both parties agreement to handle thing that way though.

rhdroc · September 2003

Just traded my 2000 Camry V-6 LE for a 2003 Camry V-6 LE and was wondering about the auto headlights/DRLs. On my 2000 Camry they came on automatically depending on the outside light/senser located on the dash. On my 2003, I not only do not see the dash mounted senser but all the brochure says is auto off. Does this work the same as the 2000 or is it different??

Haven't had it out in the dark yet to see for myself.

Thanks---<Rick

bronzemaxell · September 2003

as far as i know, 03 camry only has auto halogen headlight off when you shut off engine, remove the ignition key, then open driver side door, lacking auto on and off feature, and has DRL off in addition.

masspector · September 2003

If you read your manual closely you will see a section for auto on/off headlights. From the best i can gather this is for Canadian Camry's only. If you look up an 03 camry on toyota's canada site it lists a feature that sounds alot like auto on/off headlights. As far as I know what bronze stated above is the case for US camry's. I also had auto on/off on my 96 sable and I miss it on my 03 camry. I am slowly getting into the habit of turning the lights on when I need to. Seems weird to have it only in canada when it use to be on US camry's too.

cmore38w · September 2003

I just traded my 2000 XLE for a 2003 XLE and I have found that the light set-up is different. In the 2000 with the selector in the off position, the auto feature controlled the lights. In the 2003 the selector must be manually placed in the auto feature to have auto on. When auto on is selected and you exit the car the lights stay on for 30 seconds or so or until you lock the doors. I guess it basically works the same but I did find it confusing at first.....The car is Japanese built. This is my fifth Camry and so far is the best.

billmahan · September 2003

Hey Cliffy,
I see your points about cash and they make sense. But if a dealer knows I have a check today AND I have to buy by this weekend, is he/she more inclined to spend some time making a deal? Comparing that to someone who may or may not be "financeable."

I had a friend that sold new cars and he said if you didn't want salespeople to bother you on the lot while you looked, tell them you just moved to town, don't have a job, and don't have prospects for a job. They'll scram like a gun-shy dog! (He said.)

So wouldn't the reverse be true? I have to buy a car today, I have cash (brand new 20s, ha!) and I want to buy from you. Isn't it better to get that customer for a little less than to let him go buy the same car down the street? PLUS, a sale today will get the dealership some service for many tomorrows? Any validity in any of that?

Thanks!

cliffy1 · September 2003

There is a difference between the reaction of a salesman and a sales manager. On the lot, if a salesman knows you have a check in your pocket, he is going to fall all over himself to work with you. Once you get inside, the manager has a different set of information he is looking at. He also isn't paid on your future service work. He has to make his money on this sale, right now.

I think many consumers try to over analyze this whole thing. It doesn't really matter how much the dealership makes. It doesn't matter what the variable expenses are. It doesn't matter what holdback is. It matters what the payplan is of the decision maker at the store. If the manager is paid on volume or has an incentive to hit certain objectives, you stand a better chance of getting a give-away deal. If the manager is strictly on a gross profit pay plan, he'll pass on offers that are too low.

Most managers have some volume and some gross aspect to their pay plan. With them, it is a balancing act. If they have a customer offering a stupid low number, but he needs the volume and thinks there is a chance of improving the deal in the finance office, he may take the deal. If he knows he has no chance of improving the deal and it will actually cost him on his paycheck (yes, that happens on a regular basis), he'll "blow 'em out" of the store and let them continue to shop, even if it costs him the volume.

Remember, we too are humans and have the same bills as you do. We make our decisions based on this.

coolguyky7 · September 2003

I know that you post here, so I'll quickly ask you this: My 96 Corolla has the RS 3000 system and I need a keyless replacement remote. The one I have now is black, and I'm told that that gray ones for the RS 3000 won't work with my system. Black ones are harder to find on Ebay and appparently more expensive. What's the deal?

billmahan · September 2003

That answer really dovetails with a situation I had. I didn't get to the dealer until about an hour before closing time. But I knew what I wanted, they had it, and I told the salesman what I could write a check for. He said that sounded good to him, but that he would have to get an okay from the sales manager.

To make a long story short, we didn't get to the office until about 15 minutes before closing. The salesman was eager to get the paperwork filled out and close the deal. But the sales manager looked at his watch, said it was too late for him and that I should come back on Monday. He made it pretty clear he didn't care if I bought the car somewhere else in the meantime. So, obviously, he didn't think the deal benefited him as much as the salesman did.

They did keep calling me back, but by then I'd been offered a slightly better deal from another Toyota dealership. But your answer clicks with that experience.

hbqiao · September 2003

Hi, I just had about 1000 miles on my 2003 4 cylinder Camry LE auto. I got a good deal in Southern CA ($16400 before tax) and the car runs great, except when it accelerates at lower driving speed, there is a slight but distinctive part of engine noise which sounds like a metal lid was quickly put on/off a glass beer bottle.

When accelerating after driving for a while(engine is hot), the sound appears but then disappear briefly just after transmission switching to next gear, and then the sound appears again, disappear just after switching to next gear, and so on,

Is this normal and everybody hear this sound or something that I should worry about and bring to the dealer. The sound is slight but I am not sure this is related to engine ping or anything else,

thanks a lot,

Kirstie_H · September 2003

A reporter with a major magazine is looking to interview people who have recently considered buying a Chrysler, but ended up in a Toyota. If you fit the bill, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, September 12 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.
Thanks!

cliffy1 · September 2003

That is correct. I don't know what the difference is, but there is one and the gray ones will not work if the system has the black ones.

cliffy1 · September 2003

Those late night customers are really frustrating. As a finance guy who has to stay to the bitter end, I can't stand them. It does affect how the managers deal with them and how the finance guy handles the situation. In some cases, it can drastically shorten the negotiations to the consumer's benefit. In others, the manager makes a quick cost/benefit analysis and ends the discussion fast and in the negative, even if it were a deal he would take at 4 in the afternoon.

As a finance guy, I have a couple of options. I can either take the path of least resistance to get myself out quickly or I can dig my heels in. I know it sounds petty, but I am human. At 10:00 PM, I'm in no mood to be giving up rate. I figure if this customer made me stay this late, I need to make sure it was worth my time. As a result, some of my better deals are done after 9:00 PM. I've also had just as many that went straight retention because I just didn't feel like staying a minute later than required. It usually depends on what time I am scheduled in the following day.

coolguyky7 · September 2003

rhdroc · September 2003

I noticed something different in my new 2003 Camry LE V-6 that I didn't experience in my 2000 LE V-6. The 03 seems to have much more road and engine feel coming up through the steering wheel then my 00. It's not bad just a bit unusual -- you really get the sensation of feeling the road -- I guess some would say that's rather sporty!! Anyone else experience this?? The 00 seemed to distance me from the road (or at least numb the feeling).

Thanks ---<Rick

motownusa · September 2003

I test drove a 03 LE V6 and compared it to my cousin's 00 LE V6 and what you said is very much true. The OO Camry is indeed quieter more isolated than the 03 model. Don't knpw if that is intentional or Toyota is losing its edge. Nobody complained about the rattles for the 00 Camry.

dchopp · September 2003

I guess some people need something to complain about. I am 61 and have owned quite a few cars in my life time. I just purchased an 03 Camry SE last month and I nicknamed it the Stealth. It is the quietest car I have ever owned. I can't even hear the starter engage and yes my hearing is good. Upon delivery , I had to look at the tack to see if its running. The only noise I hear is when I have the sunroof open. The sound proofing is outstanding and it is a million times better than that Grand-Am my wife had. It also rides just as comfortable as my 02 4400lb Honda Oddy.

junepug · September 2003

I agree with you. We have owned our 2002 LE, V6 for a little over 12,000 miles and it is the quietest auto we have ever had. I am also over 60 and have owned many different autos. The only other auto that can compare is the 2003 Highlander that we also own.

rhdroc · September 2003

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT NOISE AND TO ASK A QUESTION IS NOT WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE COMPLAINING!! I commented on road and engine feel via the steering wheel. Yes, my 03 Camry is as quiet (if not more so) then my 00 Camry BUT I can clearly feel engine torque and changes in road conditions (vibrations) right up through the steering wheel. It's not necessarily a bad thing -- maybe it's just a more connected (sporty) feel with the driving environment -- it's just not what I'm used to coming from my 00 Camry. I'll probably get used to it in a short time but for right now, it's just a different experience that I wasn't sure was normal...so I asked!! I'll probably ask the mechanic about it the first time I take it in for service.

Oh, and by the way, I'm 50 and have had quite a few cars in my lifetime also!!

alpha01 · September 2003

Do you have the 4? Maybe its the fact that youre not used to feeling ANY torque from the engine because the 2.2L was pretty anemic, and no better than adequate, at moving the Camry around from 97-01.

~alpha

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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