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Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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Comments

  • cccamrycccamry Member Posts: 2
    Just FYI - I have a 1985 Camry hitting over 210,000 miles. Passed the smog check with above average results, just got a new fuel pump and it still runs well. Now it is my extra car because I just bought a 2001 Camry LE w/9,580 miles, fully loaded, for only $9,500 - too good to pass up and boy does it drive smooth. Only thing is...I think I did the gas cap thing and the stupid engine light came on.
    Carol
  • phd86phd86 Member Posts: 110
    It's not just toyota dealers, its auto mechanics in general. The only difference is that you paid about 20K for a new car and it had a warranty on it. That actually makes it worse because there isn't much economic incentive to honor warranties generally and you expect there to be.

    On selecting a dealer or mechanic, here are some concepts:

    1. If it is under warranty, the first and last things that you say are "I need to bring the car in under warranty" and "I need for you to verify that the work is being covered under warranty" so you don't get charged. If any hesitation on this, go to another dealer, or report it to Toyota Corporation immediately. Don't feel obligated to go to the place you bought your car, especially if they have issues.

    2. If not under warranty, get a quote. If they won't give you a quote, go to another dealer. If they give you a ridiculous quote, go to another dealer. If you get two ridiculous quotes, go to a third dealer.

    3. Dealer case in point. I used to have the valve clearances checked on my car every 60K or so, in association with replacing the spark plugs and valve cover gasket. Other than removing the valve cover gasket and spark plugs, there is really no other labor other than to put a feeler gage between the 16 valves and write down the number. Occasionally, a shim would need to be swapped out, which required a couple special tools and an additional 5 minutes of labor.

    The labor cost for this is around 1.5 hours, or about $100. Recently, however, when I called 4 dealers (including two who had done the exact same work before), I got estimates ranging from $280 to $400 and 4 to 6 hours of labor. I got all sorts of complete crap talk about what needed to be removed and replaced, and how much time it took. Fact is, the car hasn't changed, and the difficulty in doing a valve clearance check hasn't changed either.

    What has changed is that mechanics either don't have a clue what they are doing, or think customers don't either, and, therefore, they will charge and replace whatever they see fit.

    4. Independent shops- Case in point. Earlier this week, I brought my car in to an independent shop for a clutch job, disgusted with dealer estimates of $700-900 for something that should cost $400-500. I don't do major repair work on my car, but one thing I do check is to see if there are any missing parts before, and after, a repair job. I also do minor maintenance.

    When I picked up my car, my clutch was fixed but I was told that there was an oil leak on the right side of the engine, and that the air intake hose had a split in it. Accordingly, I looked under the car to view this leak, and noted that two of five bolts to the center gravel shield were not secure (one completely gone, the second hanging from the frame).

    I told the shop owner, who told me the bolts were rusty, and I needed to obtain fasteners from a Toyota dealer, then return the car and leave it with him. I went to a Toyota dealer, who informed me that the bolts were secured to nuts welded into the interior of tubular frame components, and the only way to correct it was to remove the radiator, drill an access hole, and weld a nut to the inside.

    I then noticed that two additional bolts which held the catalytic convert and pipe assembly mount in place were not there at all.

    So I obtained the four missing bolts and went back to the clutch shop and told them what the Toyota dealer said. My expectations were not high, basically, I told them to "take a look" and if they could figure out some way of securing them, "I brought the correct bolts".

    I picked up the car about an hour ago. I asked if they had any ideas about what to do over stripped out nuts. Their response was: "you are wasting our time over a gravel guard". Mine was: "you told me to go over to Toyota and come back to you with the parts, and that is what I did". Then, they complained when I asked for the two new bolts back that they didn't install.

    Now, in my former life, I did do quite alot of auto work and I've seen rusted bolts as well. When I see a rusted bolt, I spray penetrating oil on it. But this clutch shop just grabs the air-wrench and lets it rip. I suspect many others do the same.

    I guess the lesson here is to "pre-soak" any slightly rusted parts before bringing a car for repair.

    On the bright side, the clutch is smooth as silk. Got what I paid for, I think. A discount clutch job.

    5. Petty ripoffs - like PCV valves, air filters, etc. That's really petty and I can't figure out why some shops even try it.

    I do appreciate it if they tell me there's an inch of wiggle in a wheel and the bearing needs to be replaced.
  • bildowbildow Member Posts: 100
    I saw your problem on gas mileage my 05 camry 4 banger gets about 23-25 in town and 31 on the highway. I have 8500 miles in 3 months being a sales man and I have made some changes to the car. I am now using mobil one synthetic oil 5-30 weight oil and should pick up 1-2 mpg. I was told it takes about 4to 6,000 miles to break in the engine and then your gas mileage might go up a little?????. Remember we drive at 70mph on the open road and I think the mileage test are done at 60mph so maybe this is accounting for a lower mpg. Either way you have the worlds best automobile.
  • guillguill Member Posts: 94
    Just thought I'd volunteer an opinion that differs from some of the recent replies you've received.

    I also previously owned a 3rd generation (92-96) Camry. My Camry was a 92 and it was absolutely a fantastic car. Was it better than my 05? Hard to say now as I sold the 92 over 8 years ago and don't quite trust my dated perceptions of this car. Though I would tend to say that from what I remember, the 92 was probably a bit more of a substantial/quality car.

    Of importance to note is that the 3rd generation Camry was produced when Toyota was hitting a home run with their new Lexus line of autos. Auto magazines were singing praises about Toyota and the superb quality and reliability of their vehicles. Around 96-97 Toyota executives admitted that they got caught up in the accolades and actually stated they thought they went too far with injecting quality into every vehicle in their lineup. A quote from the article (to the best of my memory), "we were making a Tercel like it was a Lexus, obviously a Tercel doesn't have to be up to that standard."

    Also remember that the late 80s/early 90s was the pinnacle of the Quality movement in Japan. Thus I do believe that Toyota, and all Japanese cars, have diminished in quality ... only minimally though.

    When comparing Toyota to any domestic or European auto manufacturer, Toyota still comes out on top.

    Keep in mind also, that any complaints of poor quality in Toyotas are magnified by the fact that so few complaints are heard. When Toyotas do suffer from a chronic problem it makes the news. But you can be certain that domestic autos have more than their share of chronic defects ... but since this is more common with domestic autos no one makes such a big deal about it.

    I imagine there are a lot of complaints on the Florida website ... when I purchase a Toyota I expect it to last forever. However if I bought a domestic auto, say a Dodge, then I wouldn't be nearly as surprised if it manifested major problems.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "Around 96-97 Toyota executives admitted that they got caught up in the accolades and actually stated they thought they went too far with injecting quality into every vehicle in their lineup."

    Assuming you recall the quote correctly, I think what was meant referred to the level of luxury, not quality as defined by reliability. Every manufacturer strives for 100% reliability as measured in repairs per 100 vehicles.

    The design differences between a Camry XLE and a Lexus ES330 relate to specifications of the materials and switchgear. In the Lexus, the leather is a little softer, the plastics a little more luxurious looking, the switches somewhat smoother. I'm sure the head quality executive at Toyota expects both of them to be trouble-free, i.e., equally reliable.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    My memory is not what it use to be. However, to best of my recollection, it was the then president of Toyota (1994-95) who stated that the Camry should not be a luxury vehicle. There was never a mention of reliability. In 1995, the Camry had lost some "luxury" features that made it feel like a more expensive car. I think I have some of the information at work. lmacmil's observations are pretty acurate. It might be a little off topic, but the outgoing president of Honda stated a couple years ago that Honda had lost its vision or direction. He said that they were trying too hard to compete with Toyota. President's say the "darndest" things.
  • guillguill Member Posts: 94
    I agree I think the intent of the message from Toyota's executives was more oriented towards quality vice reliability. I specifically remember a line in the article about the ashtray in the Tercel, and how they were trying to make the ashtray the best in the world when it didn't need to be.
    Quality can be defined in a number of ways ...

    2 a : degree of excellence : GRADE b : superiority in kind

    For the intent of the article I believe the above definition taken from Merriam-Webster most closely fits.

    I also clearly remember when the 4th generation Camry came out many in the automotive circles spoke of how the new model had suffered from "decontenting".

    Keeping all this in mind, I still believe that the Camry represents one of the best choices for a mid-size car. I do believe it isn't quite up to the standards of the 92-96 generation Camry, but when compared to the competition it still beats most of them in terms of reliability and quality.

    I also believe that reports about it's perceived diminishing quality, while they may have a certain degree of truth to them (as evidenced by my previous points) ... the personal accounts are somewhat disporportunate to real-world statistics.

    This quote from another on-line forum is a perfect example of the point I attempted to make earlier.

    I am sick of reading people review this car (Tercel) as if it has the standards of an Acura Legend or Lexus ES300. This car is made specifically for someone who needs efficient transportation.

    Though this quote is about the Tercel, it applies equally to most Toyota models (with some exceptions like the Avalon which is a near-luxury car).
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I agree with Phd86's reply. You should try another dealer, hopefully one with a better reputation and attitude for service, to resolve the problem. The problem should be covered under warranty, regardless of whether you used aftermarket batteries.

    The survey you sent to Toyota Motor Corporation on your service experience is returned to the dealer with the intention that the dealer will treat their customers better in the future. So of course, "it's on file," and so is everyone else's, whether it's positive or negative. It's not supposed to be used to beat you over the head or treat you as if you have a criminal record. Sounds like a dealer to stay away from.

    Clearly, unless you've got a bad run of batteries, there's something causing the batteries to go dead so quickly. Similar to what your neighbor said, on my former 1990 Mercury Sable, there was a short circuit inside the alternator that was killing the battery overnight. I had to leave the negative cable disconnected until the cause was found, so I could start the car in the morning.
  • edmund2460edmund2460 Member Posts: 293
    When I turned on Car Talk last Saturday, believe it or not the first question was from a lady with a 2004 V6 like mine who complained about the same problem. She said her creak sounded like a "duck". The brothers kidded her about calling and taking up time with a harmless problem. They attributed it to plastic parts rubbing together. They also said that if the noise was not constant (it goes away after it warms up) there was nothing to worry. As for the service dept. I think the manager should have said something to me after the 3rd time I had it greased to explain what was causing it and why it was not a problem. The service advisor said that he would talk to the mgr about it but I never heard anything from either of them. So service at this dealership is good but no cigar yet..
  • edmund2460edmund2460 Member Posts: 293
    I have had the same 'rotten eggs' (fart) smell on my 03 Camry V6. From the beginning I have used Shell Vpower premium which is also what I put in my 4cyl 2001 Protege. Have only had the problem with the Camry, usually occurs after I have slowed down from speed. It was intermittent in the first year of driving but since then its been a rare occurrence. The dealership told me it was the gas too, but when I said my other car used the same gas they said it was a problem for cars after 2001 (convenient answer)
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    though I have no details, I believe a TSB exists...
  • joanie3joanie3 Member Posts: 1
    How do I know if the transmission is failing on an older model Camry?
  • haefrhaefr Member Posts: 600
    C'mon, Joanie, give us some information to work with. We're not mindreaders. What's the car doing (or not doing), what year car, and what service history on the tranny?
  • guillguill Member Posts: 94
    edmund,

    The TSB covering the sulpher odor is:
    EG011R-04 MAY 05 Exhaust System - Objectionable Sulfur Dioxide Odors

    Information can be located at:
    http://www.alldata.com/recalls/index.html
  • bhadshahbhadshah Member Posts: 1
    my driver's seat will not return to 90 degrees but does go down fine...how do i get it fixed...its 99 camry
  • haefrhaefr Member Posts: 600
    Busted parts need to be replaced with unbusted parts. Try your nearest Toyota dealership's service department.
  • kenm6kenm6 Member Posts: 14
    1999 Camry XLE, 110000 miles. V6 loaded. I have experienced starting problems after the engine is warm or hot, the idle control normally at 700-800 rpm will not hold and the rpm's drop off to O rpm's and the engine stalls. This only occurs occasionally. I have had a mechanic check the error codes, but nothing is showing up as an error???
    It never stalled at cold start or one hour after engine shutoff.

    Has anyone had this same problem and do you know of a corrective action to this problem?
  • edmund2460edmund2460 Member Posts: 293
    Thank you for the info. Looks like I'd have to pay to get this info online. But shouldn't the dealership have had something to tell me about this other than 'it's the gas'.
    I also see my creaking steering wheel problem listed too.
  • sprexumnsprexumn Member Posts: 1
    This experiment indicates that the interior of a black car may not be that much hotter than a white car:

    http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/cartemp/index.htm

    Executive Summary:

    For those who just want to know the results of the test, I'll tell you. The glass temperature (which I assume to be a proxy for interior temperature) varied only 5 to 6 degrees between the black and white cars on average. So I conclude that the interior temperature only varied somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 to 6 degrees. The paint temperature, however, varied by about 55 degrees, which is ten times as much. So it is indeed true that black paint is much hotter than white paint, but the interior of the black car isn't that much warmer than the white car.
    Replies to this message:
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    I'll bet a car with a black interior is much hotter than one with a light interior, regardless of exterior color.
  • guillguill Member Posts: 94
    Most certainly the dealership has this Technical Service Bulletin, problem is most dealerships either don't take the time to research the problem or don't care. If the defect isn't covered under a manufacturer recall I believe the dealership ends up paying for the repair (if the vehicle is still under warranty), hence their reluctance to properly address problems.
  • vonnyvoncevonnyvonce Member Posts: 129
    Interesting experiment but if you've sat on a black leather front seat facing the sun on a hot summer day you'll wonder if there is more to the numbers than you discovered.

    I'd retry the experiment but open the car and measure the surface temp of the front seats in both black and tan. I'll guess you'll see a substantial difference. Opening the car will have little effect on the surface temp if you measure quickly.

    BTW how about the 2007 Camry (mini Avalon) pictures. If they have dual climate, a heated steering wheel and good tunes it looks like a winner.
  • moeharrimoeharri Member Posts: 108
    Hubba, hubba! Man, the new Camry looks sweet, very Lexus-like. I absolutely cannot wait until this is released--I'll be getting the XLE or SE, depending on engine offerings (here's hoping to a slightly detuned 3.5 from the Avalon). I know I want black, but I usually only get silver due to being able to see paint swirls so easily on black cars...oh the decisions.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "I know I want black, but I usually only get silver due to being able to see paint swirls so easily on black cars..."

    I've got a black 2005 SE-V6, my first black car. It's so gorgeous when clean but of so hard to keep clean. One little sprinkle and every water spot is visible, unlike a light color. Now with winter setting in, every trip down a wet road makes the sides white. The swirls aren't really noticeable from more than a couple feet away so I wouldn't worry about that.
  • moeharrimoeharri Member Posts: 108
    I know that swirls aren't that visible from more than a few feet away, I'm just afraid that everytime I get into the car, I'd see the swirls and be upset/frustrated about it. I like cars in silver, but I really want to try black--I just need to decide if I can live with seeing the swirls. It may come down to which color my dealer has in stock with options that I want--that could make it easier for me to decide. I want gray leather, and I personally think I'd like that in a black car rather than silver (gray) car.

    The other thing is that I was just at the local Toyota dealer last weekend and I was looking at the black Avalon that they have indoors--of course I could see the swirls, but I could also see "dust" or something settling on it as well. I haven't noticed this "problem" with lighter colored cars.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    I got myself a "California duster" and use it to clean the dust that accumulates when the car sits outside at work. It works fine for dust that's just sitting on the surface.
  • moeharrimoeharri Member Posts: 108
    Lol, how often do you find yourself dusting your car? I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable doing that :-)
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "how often do you find yourself dusting your car?"

    I could usually do it 2-3 times before it needed washing or the dust wouldn't come off. It's like a feather duster, very soft. The guys that show their cars use them.
  • kingfanskingfans Member Posts: 11
    i think $18,900 is alot. I bought a brand new 2006 Camry LE V6 base for $22,336 total. sale tax, lincense, and financing is included.
  • uopguyuopguy Member Posts: 1
    I'm looking at buying a Camry. I have driven the V6 model, and I love it! (I currently drive a wimpy Nissan Sentra). I've heard that you don't loose much by going with the 4cyl. Camrys. Any input from those who have experienced both.

    I am really sick of pushing on the gas pedal and hearing the engine race, and then not going that much faster.

    Thanks for any input.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Only you can decide. Take a long test drive in both.

    I personally am quite happy with the 4-cylinder, both for power and fuel economy.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    I agree with 210delray, the 4cyl is more than what most will ever need. It's smooth, quiet and offers enough power for all driving conditions. It certainly isn't wimpy.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    Where the V6 really shines vs the 4 is passing power. If you drive mostly around town and on freeways, the 4 should be fine. If you drive a lot on 2 lane roads where you need to pass slower moving vehicles, the V6 is what you'll want. I love my SE-V6 power-wise but have been disappointed in the highway mileage (26-27 at 70-75 mph.)
  • kingfanskingfans Member Posts: 11
    I am agree with lmacmil. The reason I bought Camry LE V6 is because I travel alot. 4 cyl is a lil slow for me. V6 is quieter than V4. V6 Engine will last longer. lmacmil, you said you are getting 26-27 on highway. I think its great. my Camry LE V6 is only 500 miles. I haven't keep in track with the mpg. I am going to Los Angeles this weekend. I will let u know highway mileage on Monday.
  • kingfanskingfans Member Posts: 11
    hi uopguy, i recommend you should get a V6 if you don't care about gas. V6 have a lot of stuff, such as ABS, 4 disc brakes, 15" alloy rims, and many more. Don't take my word. 4-cyl is too small for Camry.

    a lot of older people drive camry. I am 25. i dont care what people will say. So far, I am happy with LE V6.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    I don't believe there is any proof that the 6cyl will last longer or is more dependable than the 4cyl. My 1994 had 300,000kms (180,000 miles) still ran great and wasn't burning any oil. For many people just knowing that they have a 6cyl is important. Is it the 6cyl more powerful and quicker than the 4cyl? You bet (just like an 8cyl is more powerful and quicker than a 6cyl). Is it more than what most will ever need, under any driving conditions (unless you're racing)? You bet. Unless an individual needs the extra towing capacity, the 4cyl should suffice. Yes, I do a lot of highway driving with my 2002 4cyl. I can also guarantee that passing on a 2 lane highway is not a problem. Just my opinion.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    6 will last no longer. The 4 has plenty of power (as much as the six had not too long ago). 26-27 mpg does not seem too good - that is what our Sienna gets going about 70+ mph, and it is much heavier and pushes more air.
  • typesixtypesix Member Posts: 321
    For DIYers the 4 cyl is also much easier to service.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "I can also guarantee that passing on a 2 lane highway is not a problem. Just my opinion."

    If it's your opinion, then you can't guarantee it won't be a problem, can you? :P

    I rented 4 cyl Camrys a couple of times. They were fine for the most part but I did miss that V6 kick when passing.

    It's really a subjective decision. What works for you may not for him and vice versa. All I will say is I've never heard anyone complain that they had too much power. :)
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    So true, forgot about that. There is more room around the engine and the spark plugs are far easier to access.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    "All I will say is I've never heard anyone complain that they had too much power."

    But I have heard people complain that they were using too much gas. ;)
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "But I have heard people complain that they were using too much gas."

    Touche!

    It's such an individual decision, I don't know why we keep having these discussions. Ultimately the only opinion that matters is your own.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Good morning lmacmil. You're right, it's a guarantee for my driving style. However, no one can guarantee that it won't be a problem with the 6cyl either. In reality there are no 100% guarantees in live. Maybe the term should not have been used. Defencing driving is the most important skill that will assist drivers in making smart decisions when on the road.

    "I've never heard anyone complain that they had too much power" I also agree, we are living in power hungry, bigger is better environment.

    "It's really a subjective decision." Sort of confirms that the 4cyl should satisfy most drivers needs (that and the fact that more than 70% chose the 4cyl when purchasing the Camry). Can't dispute the fact that the 6cyl is more powerful than the 4cyl. However, I don't believe the 4cyl Camry is less safe than the 6cyl (at least I haven't seen any related stats).
  • haefrhaefr Member Posts: 600
    "I don't believe there is any proof that the 6cyl will last longer or is more dependable than the 4cyl."

    ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! I have an '89 Toyota pickup with the R-22 SOHC 4-cyl engine parked out in front of the house. The engine has over 279,000 miles on it. It uses no oil between oil changes (3,000 miles), doesn't smoke, starts right up - cold or hot, and returns 28 mpg highway. Engine longevity depends on faithful routine care with good quality motor oil and filters, not on the number of cylinders involved. But, I am on my fourth battery and second clutch - damned Toyota clutches! ;)
  • jdeibjdeib Member Posts: 70
    "But, I am on my fourth battery and second clutch - damned Toyota clutches! ;) "

    I think you have a lemon law case. Toyota needs to buy that one back :)
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "I don't believe the 4cyl Camry is less safe than the 6cyl (at least I haven't seen any related stats)."

    I don't think anyone suggested there was a safety issue involved. It's pretty much a mileage vs power & cost tradeoff. If I drove 20k miles/year, I might opt for the 4 to save the $2400 incremental cost and $25/month (estimated) on gas. But since I only drive about 10k annually and the $2400 wasn't an issue, I opted for the V6, knowing I would sacrifice gas mileage but get a nice kick in the pants when I floored it. And that's my final answer. :D
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    If I get a Camry I will get the best of both worlds. A 4-cyl with the manual transmission is within a tick of the V-6 for speed and gets great gas mileage. On top of that it is the least expensive Camry. :P :)
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    In that case, I'd recommend an SE w/Side Curtains and Package B, alloys. That way, you'll get a feature rich Camry, that is also safe, attractive and fun (well.. as fun as Camrys get), and it will sticker at about 23K, with negotiated price much lower. Probably a hard combination to find, tho.

    ~alpha
  • junepugjunepug Member Posts: 161
    Every time I am driving in the hills of Eastern KY, I am really grateful to have the V6. I have had other cars with a 4 cylinder engine and they all struggled to gain the top of those ridges.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Was one of the other cars a 4cyl Camry? It does make a difference. Let's compare apples to apples.
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